Additionally, I'm considering expanding the colorless section by cutting 2-3 cards of each color. I think I'm going to follow wtwlf123 and bring the signets back in, along with a few mana-facts, and a group favorite, Black Vise. So, the cube may be going through a drastic update soon. I'm half tempted to just expand to 465.
No, don't go up to 465. That is quitters talk. Just like you shouldn't play 41 cards. In cube you should just make the tough decision and cut something.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
As someone who normally drafts with anywhere from 4-8 people, I enjoy my cube being 555. I probably only really need a 360 list, to be honest, but I like the bigger size because it gives me the opportunity to run cards I just really like. I see were Pringles is coming from there, but also I prefer being able to play all the cards I really like playing with over having the most powerful list.
Oh I agree. If you want to play a cube with more cards because you want more variety in your drafts, go for it. But if you are just increasing the size of your cube because cuts are tough I think you need to just hunker down and make the difficult choices.
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Oh I agree. If you want to play a cube with more cards because you want more variety in your drafts, go for it. But if you are just increasing the size of your cube because cuts are tough I think you need to just hunker down and make the difficult choices.
Maybe. If it was a drastic increase, like double the size, I'd agree, but you can really add a lot with 15 cards without diluting the pool to a real degree.
Yeah, but this set you increase the artifact section because you want to run a couple of new cards. Whenthe new Rav block comes out you increase your multicolor section by 1 card per guild. Then when the next core set comes out you increase the WUBRG sections by two each to return your cube to balance. In a few sets you notice that your tight 450 card cube has become a loose 515 card cube.
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Yeah, but this set you increase the artifact section because you want to run a couple of new cards. Whenthe new Rav block comes out you increase your multicolor section by 1 card per guild. Then when the next core set comes out you increase the WUBRG sections by two each to return your cube to balance. In a few sets you notice that your tight 450 card cube has become a loose 515 card cube.
Eh, his cube has been pretty consistent for a long time (it's been around for at least 8 years) in terms of size, I doubt this is the beginning of the end.
And inversely, just because a cube in 3-5 years increases by 65 cards doesn't mean that it's going to dramatically decrease in quality to go from 'tight' to 'loose'. The more quality cards come out, the more holes will be filled at bigger sizes and the tighter those lists are. Like yeah, a 450 is objectively tighter than a 540 would be, but it's not like you're reaching for playables or even playing many borderline cards at 540.
540s aren't really loose anymore. It's kinda like how professional sports leagues are becoming more competitive because of more options for teams, even when there are more teams/roster spots to fill, except Wayne Gretzky is still playing at his prime. I can see the logic behind the points being made, but it's ultimately mountain/molehill.
If you go back far enough, this cube was at 500 cards. I cut it to 450 to increase the card quality and to make it easier to do set updates. I don't see myself ever going up beyond 465. I don't have a large enough cube group nor do I play frequently enough to want a larger cube. Also, the box my friend made for my cube wouldn't hold many more cards. So, I'm space limited to probably 500 or fewer cards.
That said, I'm keeping at 450 for now. I've been puzzling over the cuts needed, with some discussion with my playgroup (One wants to keep Waterfront Bouncer; another thinks cutting Squee will be a mistake). It's all in the works.
New year; new cube list. I've just completed a huge overhaul of my cube. The original post is updated, so for the first time in about a year my physical cube, my Cubetutor list,and my MtgSalvation list are in perfect harmony.
Today's changes are below. The upshot is I cut three cards from each color to add 6 signets, 4 guild lands, and 5 colorless cards. A few other small changes happened too. I'd appreciate any feedback. I'm a little worried I cut too many creatures. Also, not sure I chose the right land for Golgari, or should Golgari get its signet?
I think this update looks good. Man, cuts at 450 have to be agonizing in some spots.
I also just recently put Retrofitter Foundry in and I'll just say dang that card is fun! Just a flavor win from all stand points and so much fun to abuse. Even if all you're doing is going through the motions and trading servos up to thopters up to constructs, it's just a fun card to play with. Very solid addition.
In regards to Golgari, it probably depends on the types of Golgari decks your group is putting together. In general Golgari here, even with a splash, tends to lean very heavy towards a rock style deck, sometimes going into Braids/Stax. For those types of archetypes, I don't think the signet would be necessary. Just my 0.02 there.
I didn't think I'd ever see the day when Nekrataal was the cut for a new cube inclusion, but here we are.
Right? But there are 3-4 better versions of Nekrataal now. In a larger cube, I'd run them all, but at 450 I think I can afford to cut one, and Nekrataal's the one.
I built your cube last month. I wanted to built a power cube, and since its the first cube in our group and we are probaply not going to draft it in big groups an a regular basis, I wanted to built a 450 cube. Yours seemed to be the one that was most tested and I liked it quit a bit when I looked through it.
The decks in the 5 player draft came together quit well. We had:
WG-Hatebears/Midrange 3-1
UGR-Midrange/Control 3-1
UB-Control 2-2
GB-Reanimator/Ramp 1-3
UR-Tempo/Control 1-3
Everyone was hyped by the experiance.
Some questions came up in my mind:
- I could not resist and added Shelldock Isle. I love the card for limited, but I only know it from the MODO-Cube. I cutted Faerie Conclave. Its the only change I made. What do you think of that card?
- I assume you do not play the original Emrakul because it is not very versatile, right? Its eather game winning or uncastable. Or is the reason that you do not want to have 2-card-combos that win the game by their own? (e.g. Emrakul the Aeons Torn + Through the Breach)
- What do you think of Far Seek? I think it could help green getting more into the role of color fixing.
- How good are Wild Mongrel and Noose Constrictor usually? They seem rather low powered to me. What archetype are they nessesary for?
We will surely draft another time in the near future and I am looking forwar to give you more feedback in the future.
What is there to say about Jackal Pup? I mean, it seems like a nessesary evil to me to have the crucial number of one-drops for mono-red aggro, but it is a card that is aweful in all other spots.
I could see myself replacing it with Bomat Courier. Its good in red or rakdos aggro too, but could find its place in Izzet or Grixis tempo decks as well.
The difference to Goblin Guide here is in my opinion: While the Goblin is anly great in red aggro as well, it is a strong sign so jump into red aggro. Seeing a late Pup is often not worth going red I think.
I could not find anything about the Courier here or in wtwlf123's threads or reviews. Its a strong constructed card though. What am I missing?
I built your cube last month. I wanted to built a power cube, and since its the first cube in our group and we are probaply not going to draft it in big groups an a regular basis, I wanted to built a 450 cube. Yours seemed to be the one that was most tested and I liked it quit a bit when I looked through it.
Thanks! I hope you and your group have a lot of fun with it!
The decks in the 5 player draft came together quit well. We had:
WG-Hatebears/Midrange 3-1
UGR-Midrange/Control 3-1
UB-Control 2-2
GB-Reanimator/Ramp 1-3
UR-Tempo/Control 1-3
Everyone was hyped by the experiance.
That's great! You guys drafted two of my favorite archetypes, GB reanimator and UR tempo (although I like UW tempo better).
Some questions came up in my mind:
- I could not resist and added Shelldock Isle. I love the card for limited, but I only know it from the MODO-Cube. I cutted Faerie Conclave. Its the only change I made. What do you think of that card?
I'm not the hugest fan of Shelldock just because of consistency issues. It's a good card though and lots of cube managers have success with it. If your group likes it, that's all that matters.
- I assume you do not play the original Emrakul because it is not very versatile, right? Its eather game winning or uncastable. Or is the reason that you do not want to have 2-card-combos that win the game by their own? (e.g. Emrakul the Aeons Torn + Through the Breach)
It's not as useful in as many decks. You can cheat it from your hand but not reanimate it. I like most of my fatties to be useful for as many different cheat archetypes as possible. Two-card combos are fine, although I'm not sure I'm running any right now.
- What do you think of Far Seek? I think it could help green getting more into the role of color fixing.
I think it's kinda weak. There are other things I'd run first. I'd bring back Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and run Edge of Autumn before I looked at Farseek.
What is there to say about Jackal Pup? I mean, it seems like a nessesary evil to me to have the crucial number of one-drops for mono-red aggro, but it is a card that is aweful in all other spots.
I could see myself replacing it with Bomat Courier. Its good in red or rakdos aggro too, but could find its place in Izzet or Grixis tempo decks as well.
The difference to Goblin Guide here is in my opinion: While the Goblin is anly great in red aggro as well, it is a strong sign so jump into red aggro. Seeing a late Pup is often not worth going red I think.
I could not find anything about the Courier here or in wtwlf123's threads or reviews. Its a strong constructed card though. What am I missing?
Pup is still needed to get to the number of 2-power 1-drops aggro needs in red. It has definitely been outclassed by other cards, but at this size cube I think it's still got a place. Courier is a good card but it doesn't fill the crucial role of attacking for 2 damage on turn 2. Hard aggro is a numbers game and Courier doesn't put up those numbers. If I was to add Courier (which I think misses the cut at this size cube), I'd still keep the Pup.
Glad you are enjoying my cube and thank you for the questions and feedback.
Been way too long since I update my cube here, so today's the day. This will be a summary of the changes because I can't realistically track all the different edits I made to get from January to now.
The big news is that I pulled the trigger and went up to 465 cards. I added 5 colorless and two cards for each color. I've been really happy with the increase in size. The only archetype that seems to have suffered is reanimator. I'd love to find another good reanimator spell. Is Diabolic Servitude really the next best one I'm not running? That kinda sucks.
We like Oracle more than Nissa, Worldwaker by quite a bit. Not sure if that will be a popular opinion here though.
I think Skinrender might be better than Nekrataal, but that's a tough one. In my 720 I'm not close to cutting either, so I haven't had to consider those two against each other.
Overall the changes look like a lot of the changes I've made recently, so big thumbs up. I will say that Saheeli, Sublime Artificer didn't work well for us, and we like Izzet Charm a lot. Also I could go either way on Tajic vs Aurelia, and I think I'd give a slight edge to Tajic.
Considering a cut for Shatter the Sky. It's most likely going to be Gideon of the Trials. I could see an argument for Baneslayer Angel but my group loves that card and I like to have a few stat monsters available. It's also got a lot of history in the game. I'm open to some other suggestions, but do I really miss out if Gideon gets the boot?
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Kalonian Hydra -> Verdurous Gearhulk
Fleetwheel Cruiser -> Karn, Scion of Urza
Additionally, I'm considering expanding the colorless section by cutting 2-3 cards of each color. I think I'm going to follow wtwlf123 and bring the signets back in, along with a few mana-facts, and a group favorite, Black Vise. So, the cube may be going through a drastic update soon. I'm half tempted to just expand to 465.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Maybe. If it was a drastic increase, like double the size, I'd agree, but you can really add a lot with 15 cards without diluting the pool to a real degree.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Eh, his cube has been pretty consistent for a long time (it's been around for at least 8 years) in terms of size, I doubt this is the beginning of the end.
And inversely, just because a cube in 3-5 years increases by 65 cards doesn't mean that it's going to dramatically decrease in quality to go from 'tight' to 'loose'. The more quality cards come out, the more holes will be filled at bigger sizes and the tighter those lists are. Like yeah, a 450 is objectively tighter than a 540 would be, but it's not like you're reaching for playables or even playing many borderline cards at 540.
540s aren't really loose anymore. It's kinda like how professional sports leagues are becoming more competitive because of more options for teams, even when there are more teams/roster spots to fill, except Wayne Gretzky is still playing at his prime. I can see the logic behind the points being made, but it's ultimately mountain/molehill.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
That said, I'm keeping at 450 for now. I've been puzzling over the cuts needed, with some discussion with my playgroup (One wants to keep Waterfront Bouncer; another thinks cutting Squee will be a mistake). It's all in the works.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Today's changes are below. The upshot is I cut three cards from each color to add 6 signets, 4 guild lands, and 5 colorless cards. A few other small changes happened too. I'd appreciate any feedback. I'm a little worried I cut too many creatures. Also, not sure I chose the right land for Golgari, or should Golgari get its signet?
Lone Missionary
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Spear of Heliod
Soltari Trooper
White Additions:
Gisela, the Broken Blade
Blue Cuts:
Waterfront Bouncer
Trinket Mage
Daze
Black Cuts:
Profane Command
Sinkhole
Phyrexian Arena
Tombstalker
Never // Return
Black Additions:
Doom Whisperer
Go for the Throat
Red Cuts:
Plated Geopede
Char
Manic Vandal
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Harsh Mentor
Red Additions:
Legion Warboss
Goblin Cratermaker
Green Cuts:
Terastodon
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Sylvan Advocate
Song of the Dryads
Regal Behemoth
Green Additions:
Pelt Collector
Sylvan Caryatid
Selvala's Stampede
Guild Cuts:
Reflector Mage
Deathrite Shaman
Boros Charm
Ral Zarek
Qasali Pridemage
Guild Additions:
Azorius Signet
Fractured Identity
Orzhov Signet
Inspiring Vantage
Tajic, Legion's Edge
Stirring Wildwood
Knight of Autumn
Dimir Signet
Izzet Signet
Saheeli,the Gifted
Simic Signet
Rakdos Signet
Blooming Marsh
Assassin's Trophy
Copperline Gorge
Colorless Cuts:
Hedron Archive
Masticore
Colorless Additions:
Metalworker
Lodestone Golem
Black Vise
Retrofitter Foundry
Thran Dynamo
Ash Barrens
Dust Bowl
Thanks!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I also just recently put Retrofitter Foundry in and I'll just say dang that card is fun! Just a flavor win from all stand points and so much fun to abuse. Even if all you're doing is going through the motions and trading servos up to thopters up to constructs, it's just a fun card to play with. Very solid addition.
In regards to Golgari, it probably depends on the types of Golgari decks your group is putting together. In general Golgari here, even with a splash, tends to lean very heavy towards a rock style deck, sometimes going into Braids/Stax. For those types of archetypes, I don't think the signet would be necessary. Just my 0.02 there.
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I'm only adding Gutterbones and Spawn of Mayhem from RNA. Cuts are looking like Gnarled Scarhide and Nekrataal but I'm not 100 percent on that yet. Disappointing set is disappointing.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Right? But there are 3-4 better versions of Nekrataal now. In a larger cube, I'd run them all, but at 450 I think I can afford to cut one, and Nekrataal's the one.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I built your cube last month. I wanted to built a power cube, and since its the first cube in our group and we are probaply not going to draft it in big groups an a regular basis, I wanted to built a 450 cube. Yours seemed to be the one that was most tested and I liked it quit a bit when I looked through it.
The first games with it have been great! We did one draft with 5 players and played a new variant I invented and I played some Winston drafts with differnt people. (https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgcube/comments/awfuad/5_player_draft/)
The decks in the 5 player draft came together quit well. We had:
WG-Hatebears/Midrange 3-1
UGR-Midrange/Control 3-1
UB-Control 2-2
GB-Reanimator/Ramp 1-3
UR-Tempo/Control 1-3
Everyone was hyped by the experiance.
Some questions came up in my mind:
- I could not resist and added Shelldock Isle. I love the card for limited, but I only know it from the MODO-Cube. I cutted Faerie Conclave. Its the only change I made. What do you think of that card?
- I assume you do not play the original Emrakul because it is not very versatile, right? Its eather game winning or uncastable. Or is the reason that you do not want to have 2-card-combos that win the game by their own? (e.g. Emrakul the Aeons Torn + Through the Breach)
- What do you think of Far Seek? I think it could help green getting more into the role of color fixing.
- How good are Wild Mongrel and Noose Constrictor usually? They seem rather low powered to me. What archetype are they nessesary for?
We will surely draft another time in the near future and I am looking forwar to give you more feedback in the future.
I could see myself replacing it with Bomat Courier. Its good in red or rakdos aggro too, but could find its place in Izzet or Grixis tempo decks as well.
The difference to Goblin Guide here is in my opinion: While the Goblin is anly great in red aggro as well, it is a strong sign so jump into red aggro. Seeing a late Pup is often not worth going red I think.
I could not find anything about the Courier here or in wtwlf123's threads or reviews. Its a strong constructed card though. What am I missing?
Thanks! I hope you and your group have a lot of fun with it!
That's great! You guys drafted two of my favorite archetypes, GB reanimator and UR tempo (although I like UW tempo better).
I'm not the hugest fan of Shelldock just because of consistency issues. It's a good card though and lots of cube managers have success with it. If your group likes it, that's all that matters.
It's not as useful in as many decks. You can cheat it from your hand but not reanimate it. I like most of my fatties to be useful for as many different cheat archetypes as possible. Two-card combos are fine, although I'm not sure I'm running any right now.
I think it's kinda weak. There are other things I'd run first. I'd bring back Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and run Edge of Autumn before I looked at Farseek.
I like them mostly in reanimator but they are decent in aggro. With a handful of cards, it is really difficult for your opponent to know how to block.
Pup is still needed to get to the number of 2-power 1-drops aggro needs in red. It has definitely been outclassed by other cards, but at this size cube I think it's still got a place. Courier is a good card but it doesn't fill the crucial role of attacking for 2 damage on turn 2. Hard aggro is a numbers game and Courier doesn't put up those numbers. If I was to add Courier (which I think misses the cut at this size cube), I'd still keep the Pup.
Glad you are enjoying my cube and thank you for the questions and feedback.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
The big news is that I pulled the trigger and went up to 465 cards. I added 5 colorless and two cards for each color. I've been really happy with the increase in size. The only archetype that seems to have suffered is reanimator. I'd love to find another good reanimator spell. Is Diabolic Servitude really the next best one I'm not running? That kinda sucks.
Here is the summary of the changes: (cut -> add format)
WWWW
Remorseful Cleric -> Charming Prince
Catastrophe -> Winds of Abandon
Mirror Entity -> Gideon of the Trials
addition only -> Giver of Runes
addition only -> Serra the Benevolent
UUU
addition only -> Urza, Lord High Artificer
addition only -> Daze
BBB
Asylum Visitor -> Rankle, Master of Pranks
Chainer's Edict -> Liliana's Triumph
Spawn of Mayhem -> Rotting Regisaur
addition only -> Murderous Rider
addition only -> Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
RRR
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker -> Embereth Shieldbreaker
Abbot of Keral Keep -> Bonecrusher Giant
Legion Warboss -> Seasoned Pyromancer
addition only -> Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
addition only -> Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
GGG
Wickerbough Elder -> Questing Beast
Nissa, Worldwaker -> Oath of Druids
addition only -> Hexdrinker
addition only -> Deep Forest Hermit
xxx
Cursed Scroll -> Memory Jar
Undiscovered Paradise -> Fabled Passage
addition only -> Lightning Greaves
addition only -> Blast Zone
addition only -> Hedron Archive
addition only -> Prismatic Vista
addition only -> Sword of Sinew and Steel
addition only -> Sword of Truth and Justice
Multicolor
Soulfire Grand Master -> Kykar, Wind's Fury
Shambling Vent -> Silent Clearing
Blooming Marsh -> Nurturing Peatland
Wandering Fumarole -> Fiery Islet
Inspiring Vantage -> Sunbaked Canyon
Simic Signet -> Waterlogged Grove
Tajic, Legion's Edge -> Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
Sarkhan Vol -> Wrenn and Six
Izzet Charm -> Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
Two questions: Should Oracle of Mul Daya be the cut over Nissa, Worldwaker? Should I cut Skinrender to bring back Nekrataal?
All other feedback appreciated.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I think Skinrender might be better than Nekrataal, but that's a tough one. In my 720 I'm not close to cutting either, so I haven't had to consider those two against each other.
Overall the changes look like a lot of the changes I've made recently, so big thumbs up. I will say that Saheeli, Sublime Artificer didn't work well for us, and we like Izzet Charm a lot. Also I could go either way on Tajic vs Aurelia, and I think I'd give a slight edge to Tajic.
When Shatter comes in, I'll be cutting Supreme Verdict. I think either Reflector Mage or Geist of Saint Traft will make a return in that slot. I'm also thinking about giving Dream Trawler a whirl, but I don't think I need another control finisher.
Still pondering Skinrender vs Nekrataal.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Gideon of the Trials -> Shatter the Sky
Dismissive Pyromancer -> Fireblast
Supreme Verdict -> Reflector Mage
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer -> Izzet Charm
May switch out Spellskite for Nadir Kraken but my group isn't happy about that.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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