*was initially Slice and Dice, but my group wanted it back in, so jokulhaups was cut for Slice and Dice, resulting in the net change you see.
**The Black Lotus is a hand drawn card by christopher rush. This is currently the only exemption for my "no proxies" rule and is exempted largely because it is done by the original artist.
***Tentative
****On trial basis for "new card feel" concerns
Dreamscape Artist --> Compulsive Research
Fabricate --> Turbulent Dreams
Pemmin's Aura --> Standstill
Mind Over Matter --> Court Hussar
Snap -->Enclave Cryptologist
Legacy's Allure --> Force of Will
Body Double --> Waterfront Bouncer
Piracy Charm --> Careful Study
Serra Sphinx --> Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Careful Consideration --> Jushi Apprentice
Lat-Nam's Legacy --> Personal Tutor
Disrupt --> Condescend
Harbinger of Night --> Augur of Skulls
Necrosavant --> Nezumi Shortfang
Necra Sanctuary --> Buried Alive
Funeral Charm --> Diregraf Ghoul
Diabolic Intent --> Bloodgift Demon
Spirit of the Night --> Visara the Dreadful
Pristine Angel --> Yosei, the Morning Star
Breath of Life --> Spectral Lynx
Soul Sculptor --> Azorius Herald
Sigil of the New Dawn --> Knight of the Holy Nimbus
False Prophet --> Flickerwisp
Mtenda Herder --> Suntail Hawk
Nomad Mythmaker --> Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Trickbind --> Forbidden Orchard
Volcanic Spray --> Oblivion Stone
Abundance --> Talisman of Dominance
Pox --> Talisman of Progress
Serra's Embrace --> Talisman of Unity
Arena --> Talisman of Indulgence
Crown of Convergence --> Talisman of Impulse
Ark of Blight --> Grafted Wargear
Draco --> Juggernaut
Legacy Weapon --> Bonesplitter
Sands of Time --> Smokestack
Chromatic Sphere --> Sword of Light and Shadow (net)
Ghost Quarter --> Mox Diamond
Paradise Mantle --> Crucible of Worlds
Cubes are designed to create a Limited environment with a high power level and specific unique feel. This unique feel is what sets each cube apart from mainstream draft or sealed play as well as what sets each cube apart from each other cube. This primer is intended to provide the frame that this cube was designed to fill.
This is a quick outline of my cube and its goals, sorry if I've missed any typos or the like. I run no proxies.
I should point out early that this was not constructed in the manner of most cubes. Rather than aim for a specific target number, we started off at a constricted total of 360 cards and then added cards in "classes" of equal numbers of each colour at a time. Artifacts and lands have not been monitored in the same way except to make sure that colour-based cycles have been maintained (really, this refers specifically to signets). Multicolour have not been restricted in that precise totals method that is so popular in cube construction. Instead multicolour has been created to strengthen specific colour-ties or shape gameplay. While the colour combinations do not appear in identical numbers, they have been weighted to not overly stress any specific combination. This is not a perfect science, but it hasn't seemed to cause any issues.
1. First among the goals of this cube was to provide high-power cards: cards were chosen because they had the potential to shape the rest of the course of the game. This was accomplished through a number of means. First, format defining cards have been included wherever possible: Yawgmoth's Bargain, Arcbound Ravager, Jackal Pup, Lotus Petal, and Tarmogoyf are all tournament staples of the past or present and are obvious inclusions. On the other hand, some people are less comfortable with the power cards of tournaments. For example, Phyrexian Negator scares the ☺☺☺☺ out of less tournament-savvy players, but it is a great card. Just the same, these players have been accounted for in this cube. Cards like Akroma, Silvos and Phage, while still cube-worthy and competitive in their own right, have been specifically included to provide the raw sense of awe that newer players want in their first pick. These flashy and sometimes mana-glutted cards are good, but due to their more limited uses, they receive less slots.
2. The Second Goal that I kept in mind when crafting this cube was that cards need to be flashy. This doesn’t mean that bad cards were included to be pretty, but it means that having a foil or prerelease version of a card on hand made it more likely to see play. A perfect example of this was Lava Spike. While I wanted more burn for red, the stunning foil of Lava Spike pushed it from being merely a contender on the edge to a strong winner. Another implication of this is that when upgrading my cube with new acquisitions, I keep a keen eye out for things like the Arabic Stone-Tongue Basilisk from the Odyssey pre-release or the Hebrew Glory from the Judgment pre-release. Signed cards, pre-release cards, textless and foil cards were all prioritized based on the Second Goal. I have included foreign language cards in a couple spots, but I have been unsure about pursuing this subtheme for fear of effectively barring the inexperienced from cube play.
3. The Third Goal is an old Magic feel. I have been playing magic longer than most, I started back in Mercadian Masques just before the release of Nemesis, and I like the feel of the older sets. I have always had a penchant for the cards from sets like mirage, tempest, and saga, and despite power-level problems, I think it is obvious how integral they have been to the game’s formation. I also have an irrationally strong preference for the old card templates. With this unusual preference in mind, I set out to ensure that this cube would satiate as much of these desires as possible. This Cube would be old. Old specifically is defined on two nested qualities. The inner level is pre-Mirrodin: Mirrodin was the set that incorporated the new formatting scheme and is what I call the beginning of the end. Pre-Mirrodin cards and pre-Mirrodin mechanics all receive a soft priority. While much of the cube is in fact comprised of post-Mirrodin cards, any printing prior to Mirrodin was given a bump in the selection process. The outer sphere is Pre-M10 rules. I prefer to play with 6th edition rules and I believe that the game is worse off for the rules change (Don’t even think of touching my mana-burn). My playgroup by-and-large either agrees with me or tolerates this quirk, so I have vetoed almost any card that uses the new terminology or relies on the new rules. So any card that says “exile” or “battlefield” is nearly automatically vetoed. Same goes for cards dependent on the new rules base, such as those that rely on the absence of mana burn (here’s looking at you Omnath). So pre-Mirrodin cards have a small bump in the selection process and post-M10 cards in general are restricted to cards that do not use the new terminology and are also restricted to not breaking the power-level of the game (Baneslayer will never ever see any love from me and definitely will be burned before I would allow it near the cube). As an example of that last point, Wurmcoil Engine was once in the cube, but it was far too format warping. A resolved Wurmcoil Engine had an extremely likelihood of ending the game quickly in the controller’s favour. Wurmcoil and most modern mythics are just too bomby. Compare them to Tahngarth, the legend from Planeshift. He has become well known in our playgroup as the “Masticore Killer” because he seems to take them out with startling regularity with combat damage on the stack (thereby forcing a double regeneration). Tahngarth is a powerful piece of removal, but he doesn’t have the level of power to compete with things that are so powerful for so cheap (I mean, Penumbra Wurm is 1 mana more than the engine with a strong color-commitment, but is clearly unable to compete). There are some cards allowed in as exceptions, Molten-Tail Masticore was included to complete the cycle, and Etched Champion was considered a fair midrange creature, but these exceptions are made with extreme caution. The gist here is: Old-border cards are preferred, new-border must not violate 6th edition rules enforcement, new cards must be more carefully evaluated for balance than old, and as an aside, if there is a non-original printing of a card in the cube, I am likely tracking down an original to replace it.
4. The Fourth Goal is that 5 colour decks must be supported. 5 colour decks are very hard to build well as it is, so while I don’t expect them to be played all the time, I believe the archetype important enough for me to specifically work to help it see play (unlike W/G/R aggro that practically builds itself). Draco, and other Invasion block cards (as well as later cards like Fist of Suns) have been specifically chosen to be good for the 5 colour player. While cards geared for 5 colour have been included specifically, I have been careful to ensure that most are useable or good outside of 5 colour and that they don’t weigh on the power of the cube as whole.
5. The Fifth Goal is simply that the colours are designed to be balanced and much of the future changes will likely be to improve balance. This needs no explaining, but it was a key part of the design. No colour or specific colour combination is intended to be or become dominant.
Evaluation of Cube Performance:
I think that the cube is rather balanced, but this is not without caveats. 5 or 4-Colour Control has been one of the dominant archetypes in our drafts and sealed play. I do not believe that aggro is unviable, but both of the two most experienced players in our group have a strong inclination toward the archetype before even starting the drafts. I am one of these people. I have drafted tri-colour zoo twice to great effect (largely to prove to myself that there wasn’t an imbalance), once with a black splash of Phyrexian Negator off of all-colour sources (with birds of paradise, city of brass, thran quarry, fellwar stone and crop rotation in your pool, you don’t need to sweat a single off-colour mana-symbol). Both times, the strength of the decks reassured me that it was viable and effective.
Weenie has never been drafted in our cube, I believe the archetype to be too difficult to support in a limited environment where mid-range aggro should always see its chance to shine. So outright weenie has never been seen, too many 4 and 5-drops are run that are essential to forcing past the removal inherent to the format.
While I believe no specific build or colour combination to be inherently dominant, I still have concerns.
First is that white always seems to be a powerhouse. It is possible to draft well without it, but it is difficult to not draft the colour of mass removal. I don’t think the rest of my playgroup really notices this, but I worry that old-school white’s position as the colour of removal makes it too good.
Green for a long time was underpowered. I don’t know how else to put it. But, with the careful creation of a small sub-theme of library manipulation, and the addition of much more mana-accel and good beats like Mirri (yes, Mirri, Cat Warrior from Exodus. Who would have known she’d become an occasional first-pick card in a format with balance, bargain, and necropotence?), Green has become a highly-drafted colour.
Red started off as a tad over-powered, but has been brought into a good balance as the other colours have been tweaked.
Black was the other problem-child colour(the first was green). Black, above all other colours has been extremely prone to becoming insular. In the beginning stages of the cube’s formation, black’s splashable removal was highly drafted, but nobody would commit to the colour. Black bombs like Pit Spawn were common force-picks. Three key changes have lifted black out of the dregs and back into balance. The first change was ironically not in black, but rather the surge in mana accel that green received to increase its viability had the welcome side effect of making black’s insular nature less problematic in 2 and even 3-colour decks. Being able to reliably cast your phage or pit spawn in a tri-colour deck makes it become a nice high pick like it should be. The second change was adding more black draw to decrease its dependence on being paired with the second most insular colour, blue. This made a colour valued for its removal able to find that removal on its own and thus able to be its own support. The irony of making a colour less insular by making it more self-sufficient still amuses me. The third change was the addition of more black removal. People needed a reason not to pitch their tent in white. By offering enticing treats like damnation and terminate, black was made into a compelling choice. CIP effect creatures like nekrataal were part of this push.
Blue has been a conundrum for me. It sees play as is, largely by me (but stroke of genius has never not been someone’s first pick) and it seems powerful. Despite this, I have trouble understanding why, it doesn’t seem to pack a high density of the draw or counters or bounce that it is known for, but it has been very strong. So, I guess blue works but it just is less focused than the other colours. Definitely not underpowered.
Full Card List
I tried to include the edition where relevant, but if I didn't catch that more than edition existed, assume that I am running the original.
Waylay (Urza’s Saga)--I should point out that this is played as printed, without errata. So this drastically more versatile and powerful than it might otherwise be.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Size: 720 Powered: No, due to monetary concerns. But Contract from Below and a hand drawn Black Lotus done by Christopher Rush are present. Proxies: No. A single exception is present for Black Lotus, but that's a special case due to being drawn by the original artist. Typical Draft Size: 2-3 Players for the Typical Sealed, 5-7 Players for the Typical Draft Colour Breakdown: 106 of each Colour, 80 Artifacts, 65 Multicolour, 75 Lands Multiplayer: No, but multiplayer is mildly supported. Snow: No Un-: Yes Theme: 6th Ed Rules. Banned: Hybrid Mana, Planeswalkers, Coloured Artifacts, Lighter bans on cards clearly printed under the modern design philosophy.
From the cutting the number of pro tours, to adding mythics, to adding lands to packs, to the m10 rules changes, to the continue pushing of aggro and creatures in particular, to the way they handle prereleases, to infect, to this, they've consistently made decisions that our disappointing. If the base game wasn't so damned fun I would quit. The reason we whine about so many decisions is that so many of them are bad.
...
So you're right that it isn't the end of the world. Just another disappointing thing in recent magic. It's the reason I mostly play cube and old set limited on magic-league.
A special thanks to MagnetMan and Juju for their generous donations.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I don't think most of us will be able to evaluate suggestions for your cube very well, but if the odd rules are working for your playgroup, that's cool.
In your primer you suggested that "flashy cards" would receive less slots than other cards, and I got confused for a bit until I looked at your list, thinking you were doing some sort of system where you duplicated simple cards (like aggro knights or mana elves, removal, etc.). Immediately looking at white though, I noticed Glimmerpoint Stag, which clearly violates the "exile/battlefield" rule you have imposed. You might want to check your list for the newer cards again.
I don't think most of us will be able to evaluate suggestions for your cube very well, but if the odd rules are working for your playgroup, that's cool.
In your primer you suggested that "flashy cards" would receive less slots than other cards, and I got confused for a bit until I looked at your list, thinking you were doing some sort of system where you duplicated simple cards (like aggro knights or mana elves, removal, etc.). Immediately looking at white though, I noticed Glimmerpoint Stag, which clearly violates the "exile/battlefield" rule you have imposed. You might want to check your list for the newer cards again.
Glimmerpoint Stag was one of the very careful exemptions. It's poor wording still makes its stay here probationary, but it does function fine under 6th. Similar exemptions are Evolving Wilds and Path to Exile.
By flashy cards, I mean unusual printings and big timmy cards are specifically included, but good cards are prioritized.
@eidolon:
Thank you so much for the catches on my typos. They will be fixed today.
You have noticed that much of the cards in here are not the standard cube fare, some of this is because small pet cards are chosen to be included (chittering rats is a favourite of my friend, and I have been championing cromat since it was printed); also, cards are played as printed, so Waylay returns to being an excellent white aggro card (cast eot and then swing on your turn).
You comment on Negator being out of place in a creature-rich environment, but just the same, it has been game defining. Dropping negator on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, turns has given such great leads that it can often set the tone for the rest of the game to follow. I have mostly seen it die to wrath effects or PtE, thus making its drawback irrelevant.
Ravager is an anomaly in this cube. I say this for a number of reasons. First, he has been playable with the right sealed pools, second, he has the ability to pump up to a 4/4 or 5/5 to go for the throat. What makes people shy from him is that they remember ravfinity and can't imagine him outside of that broken environment. He has been a playable card that made it into a number of winning decks, but he is definitely one of the lower picks. But if a late pick is still seeing play, is there a problem?
I admit that creatures are lighter in this cube than most, and that has a number of implications. First, efficient beaters resistant to spot removal are more highly valued, and ironically, I think that wrath effects are drafted higher than normal because people realize that most any creature can go all the way. I haven't seen this shift from the traditional have any noticeable adverse effects, because the board is still liable to stagnation as in any limited format, but it makes people value their creatures much more, and they will fight to keep them on the board.
5 colour has been an interesting experience. It garnered significant respect in my playgroup after a Draco hit play on turn 4, but it is very difficult to build properly, and the "just run 10 mana fixers" concept is easier said than done, especially when there is guaranteed to be a 5cc player at your table trying to grab the same choice mana as you and any normal one to three colour player will be competing for those same "best cards" of any colour.
I'm taking the liberty of copying over your ordered multi-coloured list, mine was ordered by CMC, but yours makes more sense.
You're exactly right that this cube has unusual card choices. Cards were chosen largely without the help of other cubes or such sources due to their predominant focus on modern cards and play. Cards that looked likely to engender unique or interesting play were chosen specifically. Planar Birth is used in the funkier madness builds and has seen play with Desolation Angel to cripple the nonbasic-dependent decks (which are startlingly common).
Land remains the core the major planned additions. A full round of Ice Age Pain-lands, Apocalypse Pain-lands, Mirage Fetch-Lands, Invasion cipt duals, and Tempest Enemy-colour Pain are slated for addition. Once i fill out my set of Ravnica Shock-duals, they will be added in as well as land grant to support them.
Creatures account for a good number of the slated additions (Sakura-Tribe Elder, a Portal Wood Elves, Morphling, etc.), but I'm not planning on specifically pushing them unless I hear some good arguments.
Could you explain what the Cube comparison means? I'm not sure what you are intending to convey.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I understand your point about the colours, but some are of your points are based on more modern interpretations. Green was once the colour library manipulation (dating back to alpha), so Harmonize is a small stretch of the old colour pie. White has had direct damage to creatures for most of the game's existence (for example, Divine Retribution), but it is direct damage to players that is truly off-colour (Fire and Brimstone excepted). Psionic Blast is as old as the hills, it was back in alpha, and direct damage was in blue atleast through mirage block.
Creatures playable as instants have been in magic atleast as far back Apocalypse
My goal was never to preserve the exact colour pie as currently understood, nor was it to preserve any specific understanding of the pie from a certain era.
Note that an "old magic feel" is not purely a concept relating to old abilities. This cube was started as a reactionary response to the M10 rules-change. Cards before lorwyn can pass with only light scrutiny because despite the new keywording of old abilities, they still played nice (Planeswalkers are unwelcome though, and lorwyn's art is largely despised by our playgroup, so most of it is excluded for a different reason than those listed). Time Spiral was one of my favourite blocks from the post-mirrodin era due to its very old-magic feel. I still have concerns about Split-Second, but I have had no reasons to cut it yet.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
So i'm planning the next group of additions to the cube (I'm expecting this cube to grow until it reaches around 1000, this seems the most likely to give consistently novel situations and an unstable meta without a precipitous drop in card quality), here are the cards I'm considering:
Karn, Silver Golem--he has escaped inclusion for so long purely because it has been so difficult to track down a copy. I expect him to fit in very nicely, he is one of the very few additions that I consider a sure thing now that I have one.
Mirari's Wake--this card will likely finally make it in, i have been avoiding it for price reasons for a long time
Blue Sun's Zenith--Stroke of Genius is one of my all-time favourite cards. Why not add another? Sidenote: this was added upon the apparent 1-card shortage of blue, and I can't bring myself to cut it after we noticed the missing carriage return before counterbalance. This card is prompting the current round of coloured additions.
Sakura-Tribe Elder or a Portal Wood Elves--I expect this to go to sakura by virtue of the shear difficulty of finding that edition of wood elves now that every edh player in the state is trying to run them.
White is a little less clear, here are my contenders: Aurification--this card has been a personal favourite of mine for a long time, and the nice flavourful contrast of this and No Mercy gets it extra points. If it goes in, Dissipation Field will likely receive preferential treatment in future additions to provide a nice 3-card cross-set cycle. Arenson's Aura (fifth edition)--a conscious effort to improve enchantments in my cube has been made over the past few months, and it has worked, especially in the realm of enchant creatures (ie, the weakest type of enchantments). With this rise however is the need for some added hate. Why not make the enchantment hate an enchantment itself? Other options in this vein are the long-intended Aura of Silence from weatherlight or Aura Fracture from Prophecy Weathered Wayfarer--this is a favourite card of mine, but I worry about giving white even more land accel when I've been trying to push green in that area, especially when it unrestricted regarding nonbasic lands. Tithe might be a more balanced option should white-accel be desired Swords to Plowshares--The $5 price tag has been diverting my choices elsewhere for a long time, is it now the best choice? Exile--more expensive StP option, but it does add a little lifegain back to white (life gain is a little too low in my cube for my liking atm) Oblivion Ring--I worry about white sneaking into black's nightmare abilities' purview, but I do like O-ring nonetheless Isamaru, Hound of Konda--This seems like a nice nudge to lessen white's focus on control. Iconic card too. Miraculous Recovery--White creature recurrence has been a small subtheme Morningtide--grave-hate with a beautiful pic
Last on my list of white options are more sweepers. Rout, Armageddon, Final Judgment, Kirtar's Wrath, Catastrophe, etc. I worry about over-all power balance between colours if white gets more mass removal.
Black has somewhat limited options that appeal to me right now: Spirit of the Night--I really love this card but I worry it just is too bad for the mana curve Harbinger of Night--sweet slow board sweeper that just kills stalled game states Contamination--let's see... hurt all other decks while making black easier to play... love it Duress--No explanation needed Evincar's Justice--black buyback pyroclasm Disturbed Burial--giving black some inevitability seems like a good idea Massacre--I like giving black a mass removal spell that gets better against the powerful colour of white Rapid Decay--Situational hate that is never dead Unearth--sweet reanimation spell for your evasive beaters that got killed Expunge--I love cycling, and a terror effect is never a low pull
A large batch of lands will be going in eventually, but i need to find the all the proper lands of the proper editions before I can do so .
The planned group is all 10 pain lands, all 5 mirage fetch, the 5 cipt tempest painlands, and then a hodgepodge colour cycle:
Black: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth--most powerful by miles, but black needs some colour fixin. Other option is Phyrexian Tower
Blue: Teferi's Isle--Love this card's flavour. Adds some nice synergy to geddon effects
Red: Barbarian Ring--Unsure here, but I don't see anything better
Green: I'm seeing next to nothing here, maybe Pendlehaven or dryad arbor? still feels too weak. I need ideas
White: Also a little unsure, looking like flagstones of trokair or Kjeldoran outpost
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
All advise eidolon give is excellent advice. Ball Lightning really aren't good enough in limited format. If you're interested in that kind of of effect, you should take a look at Blistering Firecat
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
@ eidolon (mostly):
I'm gonna try to be complete here, so bear with me on length.
We were playing the cube at around 380 and then 600 for awhile. Some cards become problematic in smaller cubes because they interact too well. It proved more fun for us to have more good cards added (also more fan-favourites) and then have a more unpredictable environment, than to be able to have a reasonable reliable understanding that a certain card would be there in pack 2 or 3. This made the passes much more painful and ultimately more fun because it made the meta shift unpredictably and rather significantly across each draft. You mention that there are ~10 cubable cards per new expansion. I trust your expertise here, but my constraints don't allow my cube to meet those numbers. I see between 1 and 4 cards in new expansions that might be compatible in my cube, and even less that can make the cut. This means that the my cube should expect to and indeed does grow out mostly backward in time rather than forward with it.
On to your comments:
I understand your problems with Blue Sun's Zenith, but it is better than braingeyser in cube. I never want to tap out on my turn for card advantage. If I am playing a deck that cares so much about advantage, it usually relies a little on my opponent assuming that the card i've been holding for the past two turns is disruption relevant to whatever they wish to do. This is especially true in this cube where broken things can happen very quickly. Furthermore, the triple blue helps force a commitment to blue which would be beneficial to balancing which colours form the cores of decks (blue has shown up in all sorts of decks, but it rarely is more than a splash). If more cards reward a commitment to blue, then it is more likely that others (such as mind over matter) will see play. furthermore, stroke is valued extremely highly in our playgroup. "first pick, no matter what" sums it up pretty well. I've seen Balance picked over it, but that is it. With this high rating in our group, another spell like it should help push blue as a viable core colour.
Your point about the Wood Elves vs Sakura. I don't know what you're talking about when you say white bordered, Portal was a black-bordered set and I mean very specifically a Wood Elves from that printing. I buy 100% in person, so I can't say much about online availability, only that it is irrelevant to me.
Unless I find a wood elves soon, I'll just go with sakura since I know I have a couple lying around.
WHITE:
On the subject of aurification: In a large cube, it can be beneficial to have more than one version of a card if your playgroup likes the effect. Most have a special appreciation for each because they have seen each played. (Aurification is in a casual gain-life deck of mine while No Mercy has been in cube)
That being said, I still am unsure if it should go in with this installment.
on Arenson's Aura et. al. You make a good point on the AoS. AoS will be added above either of the other two should we decide hate to be the way to go.
on StP: what is the "VS version"? and, if it is just $1, is it old-bordered?
Exile: yup, it isn't a true replacement for StP, it fills a different niche. That is one of the reasons it has made it onto this list for consideration. Should it be deferred until after i get a StP? Or do you think it is strong enough to compete for this round of additions?
morningtide: I liked it because it went global, but in the end, I think you're right. I'm looking for grave hate because one of our players has a major penchant for graveyard-tech, and wherever a yard-based deck is built, so too should appear adequate hate. I guess the answer is to look elsewhere.
What were your thoughts on the presence of mass removal on white? Namely, do you think it threatens the balance to add more?
RED:
mogg fanatic: we do play with damage stacking
Ball Lightning: It isn't out of my long-term goals, but since this addition is ahead on the next land installment, I think your point makes sense. Blistering Firecat replaces it for consideration in this round.
Jokulhaups: It is a reset button, I don't understand what you mean in your critique, how is it all that different from upheaval (which is a very good card)?
the goliath vs gargadon: they are each the red fatty that the opponent must reconsider their plays because of. I like your point about the gargadon. Goliath is a pet card of a friend that I have been attempting to oust from the cube for some time, I think he might be supportive with your argument.
BLACK:
It came down to harbinger, contamination, massacre, or duress. I actually really love the controlly feel that alot of the games have, and harbinger added a nice play to black under those circumstances. In the end though, I decided hosing white was just too important. Massacre wins in black.
LAND:
I should point out that for this cycle I'm looking specifically for lands that produce coloured mana and don't break the bank (unless I already own them). I like great lands like Volrath's Stronghold, but I want to keep the cycle consistent.
So, we have: Barbarian Ring in Red--decided Kjeldoran Outpost in White--decided Teferi's Isle in Blue--very close to decided: I've been avoiding the hideaway lands so shelldock is out; ruins produces only colourless, so it is out; and I never had the fortune of owning an academy, and I don't plan on shelling out that kind of cash on a single card right now. Cephalid Coliseum made a strong showing in my personal arguments, but the interaction between teferi's isle and things like sands of time or geddon effects made it win out
Green--in desperate need of suggestions, cradle is out for same reasons as academy and I just don't see another good land for this colour.
Black--Cabal Pit was compelling early on, but fixing for an entire colour all in one card still seems the strongest. bog is out for feeling too new and being too difficult to respond to. Volrath's was mentioned above. I can still be persuaded into the tower if you think it would see frequent play and would be better than urborg
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate the time you take for these thorough replies. what are your thoughts on the undecided categories? I'm still at a loss for what card to pick in white or red, and green land is a problem unto itself.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Everything eidolon said is really great advice, and his cube comparison tool is responsible for making my cube much, much better than it was at first.
I find your list pretty intimidating, since it isn't sorted by CMC or even by creature/noncreature. Combined with its size, that makes it pretty hard to comment, but my first thought upon seeing several of these cards is that I wouldn't even play them in block limited, let alone in Cube (Deathspore Thalid? Disciple of Malice?). Also, a lot of your cards seem like enablers for very linear strategies that only excelled in constructed because of the ability to build decks around them from an unlimited card pool and with 4 copies of key cards. Ravager isn't even the worst offender here - I just don't see how cards like Doomsday can even be playable in a limited format. That's especially true when you have no way of predicting what's going to be in pack 2, since it could be anything from Yawgmoth's Bargain to Necromancer's Magemark.
Like I said, I agree with everything eidolon posted, but his advice about trying to cut down to 720 stands out as stellar. I realize you're trying to create a unique drafting experience every time you sit down, but I think your list includes many cards that are just unplayable, and I think cutting them will greatly increase the fun you have while still ensuring that every draft is different.
Another thing that I really don't like about big cubes is the difference in powerlevel between the cards: In a small cube, cards like Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp + Winter Orb are fairer, because you also have such bombs in your deck, while they are just broken if the average artifact is on the Library of Leng level.
I couldn't agree more. Your cube seems like it creates Balance vs Mtenda Herder scenarios, which just don't feel fair.
in my opinion, "unfun" effects are really just effects a player doesn't understand how to use or how to beat. i'd rather understand (and play with others who understand) how to use and beat powerful effects than simplify the cube so no one has to.
For all I know, you are Kai Budde and for all you know I'm John Finkel. It doesn't matter. What matters is your logical argument for or against the card in question.
eidolon, I think you made a mistake on your wrath-effect total: without even reviewing my list I know that you're missing wrath of god.
I'm working on cataloging the most recent update, I added many of the cheaper lands that needed to go in, the 2 painland cycles are still not ready to go in and the I am missing a skyshroud forest for the cipt pain cycle.
Much larger update than planned, looks like a lot of fun, black is gonna be seeing some subs soon tho.
I'll post a full list as soon as i can.
In other news: A portal2 Armageddon is sexy as hell and is gonna be in the next update (it was a little too pricy for this round)
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
You are right, but that doesn't change the numbers too drastically. I think that it would be a lot easier to go through your cube, if you would separate spells and creatures and add some empty lines between the different mana costs, since atm it is just a big block.
My initial organization was by mana cost (not cmc). so it went: W, W1, WW, W2, WW1, WWW, etc.
This was thrown off by a (relatively) recent update of cataloguing the cube. I'll try to introduce something a bit easier to read when I have the time, but it likely won't be for a bit, the quarter is starting to pick up for me and time is not the abundant commodity that it was earlier.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
So, massive cube update, and it is beautiful. I've only had a single 2-person draft (80-card rotisserie) since this update, it played spectacularly. I went out of character and drafted G/W/R aggro with Armageddon and Balance, and I swept against the opposing U/R control. It was pretty sweet.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Except for the subs at the top of the list, it is a bulk addition. I have a planned round of substitutions (especially in black and blue), but that isn't quite ready to go yet.
I couldn't find a playable copy of Aura of Silence in time for this update, but a sub with that coming in is incoming too.
The cube is starting to reach the proper size, I may not let it grow to the planned 1000, it will largely depend on the land I find. We are seeing about the right amount of variation between drafts while not having any specific card too bomby.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
the mage and loop just weren't seeing play. They felt like the weakest cards in the cube and I'm psyched about the new additions replacing them. The fact that it is two new-bordered cards that are coming out for two old-bordered cards is just gravy.
My playgroup is still debating blue, especially sunken field and fervent denial's usefulness, but I'll post any extra changes when they come.
Black ended up with a duplicate of pestilence, so that will come out asap, either for a Knight of Stromgald or another removal spell
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
oblation seems really bad, but 890 is a lot of cards.
It counters buyback, preserves bombs for for use later against removal and gets you card advantage whenever they cast any removal. It also is a sweet play with damage on the stack when your opponent thinks they finally forced a trade
That is without mentioning the obvious use of forcing through lethal damage
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
it's hard for me to know whether a card makes the cut for a cube of this size, but these seem particularly unexciting. splinter is especially odd in a singleton format. the rest of your additions look good, though.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
people in our group like splinter for the ability to see the opponent's deck and know exactly what is coming (ie do they need to hold lands back to be able to recover off geddon?) while at the same time removing a threat permanently
Hunting grounds is an oddity card that we just wanted to experiment with
Wake of destruction is meant to hose decks heavily committed to a colour
the rest are mostly test cards, but we'll see how they go. Null Brooch has had some good plays already and actually was being used as a mid-range deck's answer to control. Forcing through grip of chaos vs control via the brooch has been devastating
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
This gigantic cube scares me. Sounds like it'd be fun to play though. Looking at the sections, it seems that Red looks like the tightest section.
The Lands section has some terrible lands in there for cube, and it seems like they are there just to make up numbers. I would honestly play the common onslaught and urza's cycling lands before I used the Masques depletion and storage lands.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Quote from votan »
:ER:, you suck as a hero
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OUT --> IN
Moltentail Masticore --> Chimeric Idol
Seething Song --> Bogardan Lancer
Fire Whip --> Goblin Bombardment
Jokulhaups* --> Fireslinger
Diminishing Returns --> Time Spiral
Predict --> Merfolk Looter
Twincast --> Bonded Fetch
Remove Soul --> Circular Logic
Cleansing Meditation --> Ravages of War
Brawn --> Spike Weaver
Blacker Lotus --> Black Lotus**
Twilight's Call --> Spirit of the Night***
Decree of Pain --> Slaughter Pact
Vampiric Dragon --> Olivia Voldaren
Diabolic Servitude --> Nezumi Graverobber
Whirlpool Warrior--> Snapcaster Mage
Panoptic Mirror--> Engineered Explosives
Slice and Dice --> Hero of Oxid Ridge****
Wheel of Fate --> [CARD]Faithless Looting
Floating Shield --> Knight of the White Orchid***[/CARD]
*was initially Slice and Dice, but my group wanted it back in, so jokulhaups was cut for Slice and Dice, resulting in the net change you see.
**The Black Lotus is a hand drawn card by christopher rush. This is currently the only exemption for my "no proxies" rule and is exempted largely because it is done by the original artist.
***Tentative
****On trial basis for "new card feel" concerns
Dreamscape Artist --> Compulsive Research
Fabricate --> Turbulent Dreams
Pemmin's Aura --> Standstill
Mind Over Matter --> Court Hussar
Snap -->Enclave Cryptologist
Legacy's Allure --> Force of Will
Body Double --> Waterfront Bouncer
Piracy Charm --> Careful Study
Serra Sphinx --> Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Careful Consideration --> Jushi Apprentice
Lat-Nam's Legacy --> Personal Tutor
Disrupt --> Condescend
Holistic Wisdom --> Elves of Deep Shadow
Reclaim --> Skyshroud Elite
Sylvan Scrying --> Utopia Sprawl
Desert Twister --> Ghazban Ogre
Summoner's Pact --> Seton's Scout
Giant Growth --> Avacyn's Pilgrim
Harbinger of Night --> Augur of Skulls
Necrosavant --> Nezumi Shortfang
Necra Sanctuary --> Buried Alive
Funeral Charm --> Diregraf Ghoul
Diabolic Intent --> Bloodgift Demon
Spirit of the Night --> Visara the Dreadful
Recoup --> Goblin Sharpshooter
Guerrilla Tactics --> Demonfire
Collapsing Borders --> Goblin Wardriver
Arcane Teachings --> Brimstone Volley
Reiterate --> Devil's Play
Dragon Breath --> Firestorm
Pristine Angel --> Yosei, the Morning Star
Breath of Life --> Spectral Lynx
Soul Sculptor --> Azorius Herald
Sigil of the New Dawn --> Knight of the Holy Nimbus
False Prophet --> Flickerwisp
Mtenda Herder --> Suntail Hawk
Nomad Mythmaker --> Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Trickbind --> Forbidden Orchard
Volcanic Spray --> Oblivion Stone
Abundance --> Talisman of Dominance
Pox --> Talisman of Progress
Serra's Embrace --> Talisman of Unity
Arena --> Talisman of Indulgence
Crown of Convergence --> Talisman of Impulse
Ark of Blight --> Grafted Wargear
Draco --> Juggernaut
Legacy Weapon --> Bonesplitter
Sands of Time --> Smokestack
Chromatic Sphere --> Sword of Light and Shadow (net)
Ghost Quarter --> Mox Diamond
Paradise Mantle --> Crucible of Worlds
Squee's Embrace --> Goblin Trenches
Olivia Voldaren --> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Artifact Mutation --> Bloodbraid Elf
Life/Death --> Maelstrom Pulse
This is a quick outline of my cube and its goals, sorry if I've missed any typos or the like. I run no proxies.
I should point out early that this was not constructed in the manner of most cubes. Rather than aim for a specific target number, we started off at a constricted total of 360 cards and then added cards in "classes" of equal numbers of each colour at a time. Artifacts and lands have not been monitored in the same way except to make sure that colour-based cycles have been maintained (really, this refers specifically to signets). Multicolour have not been restricted in that precise totals method that is so popular in cube construction. Instead multicolour has been created to strengthen specific colour-ties or shape gameplay. While the colour combinations do not appear in identical numbers, they have been weighted to not overly stress any specific combination. This is not a perfect science, but it hasn't seemed to cause any issues.
1. First among the goals of this cube was to provide high-power cards: cards were chosen because they had the potential to shape the rest of the course of the game. This was accomplished through a number of means. First, format defining cards have been included wherever possible: Yawgmoth's Bargain, Arcbound Ravager, Jackal Pup, Lotus Petal, and Tarmogoyf are all tournament staples of the past or present and are obvious inclusions. On the other hand, some people are less comfortable with the power cards of tournaments. For example, Phyrexian Negator scares the ☺☺☺☺ out of less tournament-savvy players, but it is a great card. Just the same, these players have been accounted for in this cube. Cards like Akroma, Silvos and Phage, while still cube-worthy and competitive in their own right, have been specifically included to provide the raw sense of awe that newer players want in their first pick. These flashy and sometimes mana-glutted cards are good, but due to their more limited uses, they receive less slots.
2. The Second Goal that I kept in mind when crafting this cube was that cards need to be flashy. This doesn’t mean that bad cards were included to be pretty, but it means that having a foil or prerelease version of a card on hand made it more likely to see play. A perfect example of this was Lava Spike. While I wanted more burn for red, the stunning foil of Lava Spike pushed it from being merely a contender on the edge to a strong winner. Another implication of this is that when upgrading my cube with new acquisitions, I keep a keen eye out for things like the Arabic Stone-Tongue Basilisk from the Odyssey pre-release or the Hebrew Glory from the Judgment pre-release. Signed cards, pre-release cards, textless and foil cards were all prioritized based on the Second Goal. I have included foreign language cards in a couple spots, but I have been unsure about pursuing this subtheme for fear of effectively barring the inexperienced from cube play.
3. The Third Goal is an old Magic feel. I have been playing magic longer than most, I started back in Mercadian Masques just before the release of Nemesis, and I like the feel of the older sets. I have always had a penchant for the cards from sets like mirage, tempest, and saga, and despite power-level problems, I think it is obvious how integral they have been to the game’s formation. I also have an irrationally strong preference for the old card templates. With this unusual preference in mind, I set out to ensure that this cube would satiate as much of these desires as possible. This Cube would be old. Old specifically is defined on two nested qualities. The inner level is pre-Mirrodin: Mirrodin was the set that incorporated the new formatting scheme and is what I call the beginning of the end. Pre-Mirrodin cards and pre-Mirrodin mechanics all receive a soft priority. While much of the cube is in fact comprised of post-Mirrodin cards, any printing prior to Mirrodin was given a bump in the selection process. The outer sphere is Pre-M10 rules. I prefer to play with 6th edition rules and I believe that the game is worse off for the rules change (Don’t even think of touching my mana-burn). My playgroup by-and-large either agrees with me or tolerates this quirk, so I have vetoed almost any card that uses the new terminology or relies on the new rules. So any card that says “exile” or “battlefield” is nearly automatically vetoed. Same goes for cards dependent on the new rules base, such as those that rely on the absence of mana burn (here’s looking at you Omnath). So pre-Mirrodin cards have a small bump in the selection process and post-M10 cards in general are restricted to cards that do not use the new terminology and are also restricted to not breaking the power-level of the game (Baneslayer will never ever see any love from me and definitely will be burned before I would allow it near the cube). As an example of that last point, Wurmcoil Engine was once in the cube, but it was far too format warping. A resolved Wurmcoil Engine had an extremely likelihood of ending the game quickly in the controller’s favour. Wurmcoil and most modern mythics are just too bomby. Compare them to Tahngarth, the legend from Planeshift. He has become well known in our playgroup as the “Masticore Killer” because he seems to take them out with startling regularity with combat damage on the stack (thereby forcing a double regeneration). Tahngarth is a powerful piece of removal, but he doesn’t have the level of power to compete with things that are so powerful for so cheap (I mean, Penumbra Wurm is 1 mana more than the engine with a strong color-commitment, but is clearly unable to compete). There are some cards allowed in as exceptions, Molten-Tail Masticore was included to complete the cycle, and Etched Champion was considered a fair midrange creature, but these exceptions are made with extreme caution. The gist here is: Old-border cards are preferred, new-border must not violate 6th edition rules enforcement, new cards must be more carefully evaluated for balance than old, and as an aside, if there is a non-original printing of a card in the cube, I am likely tracking down an original to replace it.
4. The Fourth Goal is that 5 colour decks must be supported. 5 colour decks are very hard to build well as it is, so while I don’t expect them to be played all the time, I believe the archetype important enough for me to specifically work to help it see play (unlike W/G/R aggro that practically builds itself). Draco, and other Invasion block cards (as well as later cards like Fist of Suns) have been specifically chosen to be good for the 5 colour player. While cards geared for 5 colour have been included specifically, I have been careful to ensure that most are useable or good outside of 5 colour and that they don’t weigh on the power of the cube as whole.
5. The Fifth Goal is simply that the colours are designed to be balanced and much of the future changes will likely be to improve balance. This needs no explaining, but it was a key part of the design. No colour or specific colour combination is intended to be or become dominant.
Evaluation of Cube Performance:
I think that the cube is rather balanced, but this is not without caveats. 5 or 4-Colour Control has been one of the dominant archetypes in our drafts and sealed play. I do not believe that aggro is unviable, but both of the two most experienced players in our group have a strong inclination toward the archetype before even starting the drafts. I am one of these people. I have drafted tri-colour zoo twice to great effect (largely to prove to myself that there wasn’t an imbalance), once with a black splash of Phyrexian Negator off of all-colour sources (with birds of paradise, city of brass, thran quarry, fellwar stone and crop rotation in your pool, you don’t need to sweat a single off-colour mana-symbol). Both times, the strength of the decks reassured me that it was viable and effective.
Weenie has never been drafted in our cube, I believe the archetype to be too difficult to support in a limited environment where mid-range aggro should always see its chance to shine. So outright weenie has never been seen, too many 4 and 5-drops are run that are essential to forcing past the removal inherent to the format.
While I believe no specific build or colour combination to be inherently dominant, I still have concerns.
First is that white always seems to be a powerhouse. It is possible to draft well without it, but it is difficult to not draft the colour of mass removal. I don’t think the rest of my playgroup really notices this, but I worry that old-school white’s position as the colour of removal makes it too good.
Green for a long time was underpowered. I don’t know how else to put it. But, with the careful creation of a small sub-theme of library manipulation, and the addition of much more mana-accel and good beats like Mirri (yes, Mirri, Cat Warrior from Exodus. Who would have known she’d become an occasional first-pick card in a format with balance, bargain, and necropotence?), Green has become a highly-drafted colour.
Red started off as a tad over-powered, but has been brought into a good balance as the other colours have been tweaked.
Black was the other problem-child colour(the first was green). Black, above all other colours has been extremely prone to becoming insular. In the beginning stages of the cube’s formation, black’s splashable removal was highly drafted, but nobody would commit to the colour. Black bombs like Pit Spawn were common force-picks. Three key changes have lifted black out of the dregs and back into balance. The first change was ironically not in black, but rather the surge in mana accel that green received to increase its viability had the welcome side effect of making black’s insular nature less problematic in 2 and even 3-colour decks. Being able to reliably cast your phage or pit spawn in a tri-colour deck makes it become a nice high pick like it should be. The second change was adding more black draw to decrease its dependence on being paired with the second most insular colour, blue. This made a colour valued for its removal able to find that removal on its own and thus able to be its own support. The irony of making a colour less insular by making it more self-sufficient still amuses me. The third change was the addition of more black removal. People needed a reason not to pitch their tent in white. By offering enticing treats like damnation and terminate, black was made into a compelling choice. CIP effect creatures like nekrataal were part of this push.
Blue has been a conundrum for me. It sees play as is, largely by me (but stroke of genius has never not been someone’s first pick) and it seems powerful. Despite this, I have trouble understanding why, it doesn’t seem to pack a high density of the draw or counters or bounce that it is known for, but it has been very strong. So, I guess blue works but it just is less focused than the other colours. Definitely not underpowered.
Full Card List
I tried to include the edition where relevant, but if I didn't catch that more than edition existed, assume that I am running the original.
Artifact: 94
Multicolour: 72
Here's them organized by colour, courtesy of eidolon
Iridescent Angel
Swift Silence
Windreaver
Cloud Cover
Azorius First-Wing
Galina's Knight
Meddling Mage
Reparations
Doomsday Specter
Psychatog
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Countersquall
Fumarole
Fulminator Mage
Army Ants
Terminate
Natural Emergence
Assault // Battery
Giant Solifuge
Fires of Yavimaya
Burning-Tree Shaman
Horned Kavu
Artifact Mutation
Hull Breach
Wild Cantor
Mystic Enforcer
Fleetfoot Panther
Armadillo Cloak
Aura Mutation
Seeds of Strength
Watchwolf
Sterling Grove
Saffi Eriksdotter
Culling Sun
Soul Link
Mortify
Gerrard's Verdict
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Suffocating Blast
Quicksilver Dagger
Electrolyze
Gelectrode
Fire // Ice
Cadaverous Bloom
Drain the Well
Vhati il-Dal
Consume Strength
Life // Death
Firemane Angel
Squee's Embrace
Boros Swiftblade
Energy Bolt
Lightning Helix
Yavimaya's Embrace
Simic Sky Swallower
AEther Mutation
Mystic Snake
Jungle Barrier
Temporal Spring
Voidslime
Shielding Plax
Coiling Oracle
Gaea's Skyfolk
Pygmy Hippo
Nicol Bolas
Crosis's Charm
Lightning Angel
Trace of Abundance
Treva's Charm
Guided Passage
Cromat
Who/What/When/Where/Why
White: 134
Blue: 134
Green: 134
Red: 134
Black: 134
Click here for the tappedout.net page for this cube
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Size: 720
Powered: No, due to monetary concerns. But Contract from Below and a hand drawn Black Lotus done by Christopher Rush are present.
Proxies: No. A single exception is present for Black Lotus, but that's a special case due to being drawn by the original artist.
Typical Draft Size: 2-3 Players for the Typical Sealed, 5-7 Players for the Typical Draft
Colour Breakdown: 106 of each Colour, 80 Artifacts, 65 Multicolour, 75 Lands
Multiplayer: No, but multiplayer is mildly supported.
Snow: No
Un-: Yes
Theme: 6th Ed Rules.
Banned: Hybrid Mana, Planeswalkers, Coloured Artifacts, Lighter bans on cards clearly printed under the modern design philosophy.
My list as used in the MTGS rotisserie draft
1 Suntail Hawk
1 Icatian Javelineers
1 Loam Lion
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
//2CMC
1 Spectral Lynx
1 Wall of Omens
1 Beloved Chaplain
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Phantom Nomad
1 Temple Acolyte
1 Azorius Arrester
1 Blade of the Sixth Pride
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Whipcorder
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1 Serra Avenger
1 Longbow Archer
1 White Knight
1 Silver Knight
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Order of Leitbur
1 Order of the White Shield
1 Mistral Charger
1 White Shield Crusader
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Syndic of Tithes
1 Daring Skyjek
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Peacekeeper
1 Azorius Herald
1 Pianna, Nomad Captain
1 Preacher
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Paladin en-Vec
1 Flickerwisp
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Soltari Champion
1 Stonecloaker
//4CMC
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Voice of All
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Calciderm
1 Restoration Angel
//5CMC
1 Blinding Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Exalted Angel
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Jareth, Leonine Titan
//7CMC
1 Eternal Dragon
//8CMC
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sunlance
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Condemn
1 Mana Tithe
1 Land Tax
1 Kirtar's Desire
//2CMC
1 Balance
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Disenchant
1 Pacifism
1 Momentary Blink
1 Shahrazad
1 Shining Shoal
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Griffin Guide
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Waylay
1 Wing Shards
1 Empyrial Armor
1 Aura of Silence
1 Glorious Anthem
//4CMC
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgement
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Parallax Wave
1 Battle Screech
1 Decree of Justice
1 Miraculous Recovery
1 Winds of Rath
1 Rout
//6CMC
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Catastrophe
1 Nimble Mongoose
1 Basking Rootwalla
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Jungle Lion
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Greenseeker
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Skyshroud Elite
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
//2CMC
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Roots
1 Werebear
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 River Boa
1 Albino Troll
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Quirion Dryad
1 Dryad Sophisticate
1 Kavu Titan
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Seton's Scout
1 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Hunting Moa
1 Wood Elves
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Thornscape Battlemage
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Ohran Viper
1 Spike Feeder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Carven Caryatid
1 Mirri, Cat Warrior
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Wolfir Avenger
1 Slaughterhorn
//4CMC
1 Spike Weaver
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Blastoderm
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Timbermare
1 Jade Leech
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Arrogant Wurm
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Silklash Spider
//6CMC
1 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
//7CMC
1 Krosan Tusker
//8CMC
1 Verdant Force
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Exploration
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
1 Rancor
1 Hurricane
1 Fastbond
1 Drop of Honey
//2CMC
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Farseek
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Sylvan Library
1 Moment's Peace
1 Naturalize
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Tracker's Instincts
1 Rampant Growth
1 Channel
1 Nature's Lore
1 Constant Mists
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Harrow
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Call of the Herd
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Elephant Guide
1 Krosan Grip
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Chord of Calling
//4CMC
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Harmonize
1 Might of Oaks
1 Natural Order
1 Plow Under
1 Stunted Growth
1 Overrun
//7CMC
1 Roar of the Wurm
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Goblin Welder
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Kris Mage
1 Goblin Patrol
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape
1 Jackal Pup
1 Magus of the Scroll
1 Gorilla Shaman
//2CMC
1 Gorehouse Chainwalker
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Hearth Kami
1 Torch Fiend
1 Skirk Marauder
1 Blood Knight
1 Slith Firewalker
1 Orcish Artillery (Alpha)
1 Fireslinger
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Ashmouth Hound
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Fire Imp
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Rakavolver
1 Suq'Ata Lancer
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Vulshok Sorcerer
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Viashino Sandstalker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Markov Blademaster
1 Guttersnipe
1 Hellraiser Goblin
//4CMC
1 Anger
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Petravark
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Keldon Champion
1 Fledgling Dragon
1 Jeska, Warrior Adept
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Hunted Dragon
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
1 Reckless Wurm
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
//6CMC
1 Crater Hellion
1 Rorix Bladewing
//8CMC
1 Bogardan Hellkite
//10CMC
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Boom/Bust
//1CMC
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
1 Lava Spike
1 Firebolt
1 Seal of Fire
1 Reckless Charge
1 Fireball
1 Kaervek's Torch
1 Faithless Looting
1 Devil's Play
1 Firestorm
1 Demonfire
1 Gamble
//2CMC
1 Incinerate
1 Volcanic Hammer
1 Tribal Flames
1 Magma Jet
1 Breath of Darigaaz
1 Pyroclasm
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Dangerous Wager
1 Starstorm
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Arc Trail
1 Searing Spear
1 Arc Lightning
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Blast from the Past
1 Rift Bolt
1 Char
1 Stone Rain
1 Words of War
1 Fiery Temper
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Brimstone Volley
1 Pillage
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Molten Rain
//4CMC
1 Seize the Day
1 Aftershock
1 Sneak Attack
1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Fireblast
1 Putrid Imp
1 Carnophage
1 Sarcomancy
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Gravecrawler
1 Vampire Lacerator
//2CMC
1 Pack Rat
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Fallen Askari
1 Fledgling Djinn
1 Dark Confidant
1 Dauthi Slayer
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Black Knight
1 Withered Wretch
1 Order of the Ebon Hand
1 Knight of Stromgald
1 Stromgald Crusader
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Augur of Skulls
1 Wretched Anurid
1 Skittering Skirge
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
1 Phyrexian Negator
1 Bone Shredder
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Undead Gladiator
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Hypnotic Specter
//4CMC
1 Faceless Butcher
1 Juzam Djinn
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Nekrataal
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Grinning Demon
1 Bane of the Living
//5CMC
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Desolation Angel
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
//8CMC
1 Tombstalker
1 Booster Tutor
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unearth
1 Dark Ritual
1 Contract from Below
1 Reanimate
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Innocent Blood
1 Mind Twist
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Tortured Existence
1 Vendetta
//2CMC
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Exhume
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Last Gasp
1 Smother
1 Terror
1 Night's Whisper
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Bad Moon
1 Bitterblossom
1 Smallpox
1 Stitch Together
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Sinkhole
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Necromancy
1 Seal of Doom
1 Buried Alive
1 Stupor
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Oubliette
1 Rancid Earth
1 Necropotence
1 Sudden Death
1 Rain of Tears
//4CMC
1 Snuff Out
1 Damnation
1 Barter in Blood
1 Pestilence
1 Dread Return
1 Contagion
1 Hatred
//6CMC
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Enclave Cryptologist
//2CMC
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Willbender
1 Gilded Drake
1 Azure Mage
1 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Thought Courier
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Jushi Apprentice
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Spiketail Hatchling
//3CMC
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ophidian
1 Scroll Thief
1 Man-o'-War
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Fatespinner
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Vexing Sphinx
1 Old Man of the Sea
1 Court Hussar
1 Arctic Aven
1 Spiketail Drake
1 Wonder
1 Tradewind Rider
1 Thieving Magpie
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
//5CMC
1 Mulldrifter
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Morphling
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Lone Revenant
//6CMC
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Ætherling
1 Palinchron
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Whispers of the Muse
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Syncopate
1 Force Spike
1 Condescend
1 Stifle
1 Careful Study
1 Seal of Removal
1 Unstable Mutation
//2CMC
1 Turbulent Dreams
1 Daze
1 Miscalculation
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Arcane Denial
1 Impulse
1 Think Twice
1 Compulsion
1 Withdraw
1 Standstill
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Logic Knot
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Tinker
1 Compulsive Research
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Exclude
1 Complicate
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Frantic Search
1 Propaganda
1 Psionic Blast
1 Forbid
1 Dissipate
1 Capsize
1 Circular Logic
1 Forbidden Alchemy
//4CMC
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Opposition
1 Control Magic
1 Foil
1 Dismiss
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Evacuation
1 Time Warp
1 Treachery
1 Future Sight
1 Desertion
1 Bribery
//6CMC
1 Time Spiral
1 Opportunity
1 Confiscate
1 Upheaval
1 Jack-in-the-Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
//1CMC
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
//2CMC
1 Mind Stone
1 Guardian Idol
1 Marble Diamond
1 Moss Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Sky Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Talisman of Unity
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Talisman of Impulse
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
//4CMC
1 Thran Dynamo
//5CMC
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
//1CMC
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Black Vise
1 Æther Vial
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Powder Keg
1 Winter Orb
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Scroll Rack
//3CMC
1 Ring of Gix
1 Tangle Wire
1 Chimeric Idol
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Erratic Portal
1 Serrated Arrows
1 Smokestack
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Phyrexian Processor
//5CMC
1 Memory Jar
1 Skullclamp
1 Bonesplitter
//2CMC
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mask of Memory
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Metalworker
1 Bottle Gnomes
1 Etched Champion
//4CMC
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Etched Oracle
1 Masticore
1 Juggernaut
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Karn, Silver Golem
//6+CMC
1 Triskelion
1 Pentavus
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Lightning Angel
1 Rith, the Awakener
1 Watchwolf
1 Armadillo Cloak
1 Loxodon Heirarch
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Stormbind
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Burning-Tree Shaman
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Shivan Wurm
1 Pyre Zombie
1 Rakdos Augurmage
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Blazing Specter
1 Void
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Recoil
1 Psychatog
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Far/Away
1 Lyev Skyknight
1 Absorb
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Mortify
1 Vindicate
1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
1 Angel of Despair
1 Truefire Paladin
1 Goblin Legionnaire
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Skyknight Legionnaire
1 Firemane Angel
1 Fire/Ice
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Suffocating Blast
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Trygon Predator
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Temporal Spring
1 Voidslime
1 Mystic Snake
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Putrefy
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Spiritmonger
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
//Painlands
1 Brushland
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Underground River
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Shivan Reef
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Llanowar Wastes
//Bouncelands
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Gruul Turf
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Boros Garrison
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Mountain Valley
1 Grasslands
1 Flood Plain
1 Bad River
1 Rocky Tar Pit
//Tri-Lands
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Savage Lands
//Manlands
1 Forbidding Watchtower
1 Treetop Village
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Spawning Pool
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Stalking Stones
//Colour Aligned
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Kor Haven
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Kher Keep
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Temple of the False God
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Gemstone Mine
1 City of Brass
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Urza's Factory
1 Maze of Ith
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
In your primer you suggested that "flashy cards" would receive less slots than other cards, and I got confused for a bit until I looked at your list, thinking you were doing some sort of system where you duplicated simple cards (like aggro knights or mana elves, removal, etc.). Immediately looking at white though, I noticed Glimmerpoint Stag, which clearly violates the "exile/battlefield" rule you have imposed. You might want to check your list for the newer cards again.
My Cube Blog @theCubeMiser on Twitter
Glimmerpoint Stag was one of the very careful exemptions. It's poor wording still makes its stay here probationary, but it does function fine under 6th. Similar exemptions are Evolving Wilds and Path to Exile.
By flashy cards, I mean unusual printings and big timmy cards are specifically included, but good cards are prioritized.
@eidolon:
Thank you so much for the catches on my typos. They will be fixed today.
You have noticed that much of the cards in here are not the standard cube fare, some of this is because small pet cards are chosen to be included (chittering rats is a favourite of my friend, and I have been championing cromat since it was printed); also, cards are played as printed, so Waylay returns to being an excellent white aggro card (cast eot and then swing on your turn).
You comment on Negator being out of place in a creature-rich environment, but just the same, it has been game defining. Dropping negator on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, turns has given such great leads that it can often set the tone for the rest of the game to follow. I have mostly seen it die to wrath effects or PtE, thus making its drawback irrelevant.
Ravager is an anomaly in this cube. I say this for a number of reasons. First, he has been playable with the right sealed pools, second, he has the ability to pump up to a 4/4 or 5/5 to go for the throat. What makes people shy from him is that they remember ravfinity and can't imagine him outside of that broken environment. He has been a playable card that made it into a number of winning decks, but he is definitely one of the lower picks. But if a late pick is still seeing play, is there a problem?
I admit that creatures are lighter in this cube than most, and that has a number of implications. First, efficient beaters resistant to spot removal are more highly valued, and ironically, I think that wrath effects are drafted higher than normal because people realize that most any creature can go all the way. I haven't seen this shift from the traditional have any noticeable adverse effects, because the board is still liable to stagnation as in any limited format, but it makes people value their creatures much more, and they will fight to keep them on the board.
5 colour has been an interesting experience. It garnered significant respect in my playgroup after a Draco hit play on turn 4, but it is very difficult to build properly, and the "just run 10 mana fixers" concept is easier said than done, especially when there is guaranteed to be a 5cc player at your table trying to grab the same choice mana as you and any normal one to three colour player will be competing for those same "best cards" of any colour.
I'm taking the liberty of copying over your ordered multi-coloured list, mine was ordered by CMC, but yours makes more sense.
You're exactly right that this cube has unusual card choices. Cards were chosen largely without the help of other cubes or such sources due to their predominant focus on modern cards and play. Cards that looked likely to engender unique or interesting play were chosen specifically. Planar Birth is used in the funkier madness builds and has seen play with Desolation Angel to cripple the nonbasic-dependent decks (which are startlingly common).
Land remains the core the major planned additions. A full round of Ice Age Pain-lands, Apocalypse Pain-lands, Mirage Fetch-Lands, Invasion cipt duals, and Tempest Enemy-colour Pain are slated for addition. Once i fill out my set of Ravnica Shock-duals, they will be added in as well as land grant to support them.
Creatures account for a good number of the slated additions (Sakura-Tribe Elder, a Portal Wood Elves, Morphling, etc.), but I'm not planning on specifically pushing them unless I hear some good arguments.
Could you explain what the Cube comparison means? I'm not sure what you are intending to convey.
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Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Creatures playable as instants have been in magic atleast as far back Apocalypse
My goal was never to preserve the exact colour pie as currently understood, nor was it to preserve any specific understanding of the pie from a certain era.
Note that an "old magic feel" is not purely a concept relating to old abilities. This cube was started as a reactionary response to the M10 rules-change. Cards before lorwyn can pass with only light scrutiny because despite the new keywording of old abilities, they still played nice (Planeswalkers are unwelcome though, and lorwyn's art is largely despised by our playgroup, so most of it is excluded for a different reason than those listed). Time Spiral was one of my favourite blocks from the post-mirrodin era due to its very old-magic feel. I still have concerns about Split-Second, but I have had no reasons to cut it yet.
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Karn, Silver Golem--he has escaped inclusion for so long purely because it has been so difficult to track down a copy. I expect him to fit in very nicely, he is one of the very few additions that I consider a sure thing now that I have one.
Mirari's Wake--this card will likely finally make it in, i have been avoiding it for price reasons for a long time
Blue Sun's Zenith--Stroke of Genius is one of my all-time favourite cards. Why not add another? Sidenote: this was added upon the apparent 1-card shortage of blue, and I can't bring myself to cut it after we noticed the missing carriage return before counterbalance. This card is prompting the current round of coloured additions.
Sakura-Tribe Elder or a Portal Wood Elves--I expect this to go to sakura by virtue of the shear difficulty of finding that edition of wood elves now that every edh player in the state is trying to run them.
White is a little less clear, here are my contenders:
Aurification--this card has been a personal favourite of mine for a long time, and the nice flavourful contrast of this and No Mercy gets it extra points. If it goes in, Dissipation Field will likely receive preferential treatment in future additions to provide a nice 3-card cross-set cycle.
Arenson's Aura (fifth edition)--a conscious effort to improve enchantments in my cube has been made over the past few months, and it has worked, especially in the realm of enchant creatures (ie, the weakest type of enchantments). With this rise however is the need for some added hate. Why not make the enchantment hate an enchantment itself? Other options in this vein are the long-intended Aura of Silence from weatherlight or Aura Fracture from Prophecy
Weathered Wayfarer--this is a favourite card of mine, but I worry about giving white even more land accel when I've been trying to push green in that area, especially when it unrestricted regarding nonbasic lands. Tithe might be a more balanced option should white-accel be desired
Swords to Plowshares--The $5 price tag has been diverting my choices elsewhere for a long time, is it now the best choice?
Exile--more expensive StP option, but it does add a little lifegain back to white (life gain is a little too low in my cube for my liking atm)
Oblivion Ring--I worry about white sneaking into black's nightmare abilities' purview, but I do like O-ring nonetheless
Isamaru, Hound of Konda--This seems like a nice nudge to lessen white's focus on control. Iconic card too.
Miraculous Recovery--White creature recurrence has been a small subtheme
Morningtide--grave-hate with a beautiful pic
Last on my list of white options are more sweepers. Rout, Armageddon, Final Judgment, Kirtar's Wrath, Catastrophe, etc. I worry about over-all power balance between colours if white gets more mass removal.
Red... is less than forthcoming with ideas, here's the ones I like:
Mogg Fanatic
Ball Lightning
Jokulhaups
Wildfire
on a sidenote, I'm condering dropping Hamletback Goliath, would greater gargadon be a good sub?
Black has somewhat limited options that appeal to me right now:
Spirit of the Night--I really love this card but I worry it just is too bad for the mana curve
Harbinger of Night--sweet slow board sweeper that just kills stalled game states
Contamination--let's see... hurt all other decks while making black easier to play... love it
Duress--No explanation needed
Evincar's Justice--black buyback pyroclasm
Disturbed Burial--giving black some inevitability seems like a good idea
Massacre--I like giving black a mass removal spell that gets better against the powerful colour of white
Rapid Decay--Situational hate that is never dead
Unearth--sweet reanimation spell for your evasive beaters that got killed
Expunge--I love cycling, and a terror effect is never a low pull
A large batch of lands will be going in eventually, but i need to find the all the proper lands of the proper editions before I can do so .
The planned group is all 10 pain lands, all 5 mirage fetch, the 5 cipt tempest painlands, and then a hodgepodge colour cycle:
Black: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth--most powerful by miles, but black needs some colour fixin. Other option is Phyrexian Tower
Blue: Teferi's Isle--Love this card's flavour. Adds some nice synergy to geddon effects
Red: Barbarian Ring--Unsure here, but I don't see anything better
Green: I'm seeing next to nothing here, maybe Pendlehaven or dryad arbor? still feels too weak. I need ideas
White: Also a little unsure, looking like flagstones of trokair or Kjeldoran outpost
What do you think?
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Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
I love that card. So is a Blistering Firecat the right way to go?
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Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm gonna try to be complete here, so bear with me on length.
We were playing the cube at around 380 and then 600 for awhile. Some cards become problematic in smaller cubes because they interact too well. It proved more fun for us to have more good cards added (also more fan-favourites) and then have a more unpredictable environment, than to be able to have a reasonable reliable understanding that a certain card would be there in pack 2 or 3. This made the passes much more painful and ultimately more fun because it made the meta shift unpredictably and rather significantly across each draft. You mention that there are ~10 cubable cards per new expansion. I trust your expertise here, but my constraints don't allow my cube to meet those numbers. I see between 1 and 4 cards in new expansions that might be compatible in my cube, and even less that can make the cut. This means that the my cube should expect to and indeed does grow out mostly backward in time rather than forward with it.
On to your comments:
I understand your problems with Blue Sun's Zenith, but it is better than braingeyser in cube. I never want to tap out on my turn for card advantage. If I am playing a deck that cares so much about advantage, it usually relies a little on my opponent assuming that the card i've been holding for the past two turns is disruption relevant to whatever they wish to do. This is especially true in this cube where broken things can happen very quickly. Furthermore, the triple blue helps force a commitment to blue which would be beneficial to balancing which colours form the cores of decks (blue has shown up in all sorts of decks, but it rarely is more than a splash). If more cards reward a commitment to blue, then it is more likely that others (such as mind over matter) will see play. furthermore, stroke is valued extremely highly in our playgroup. "first pick, no matter what" sums it up pretty well. I've seen Balance picked over it, but that is it. With this high rating in our group, another spell like it should help push blue as a viable core colour.
Your point about the Wood Elves vs Sakura. I don't know what you're talking about when you say white bordered, Portal was a black-bordered set and I mean very specifically a Wood Elves from that printing. I buy 100% in person, so I can't say much about online availability, only that it is irrelevant to me.
Unless I find a wood elves soon, I'll just go with sakura since I know I have a couple lying around.
WHITE:
On the subject of aurification: In a large cube, it can be beneficial to have more than one version of a card if your playgroup likes the effect. Most have a special appreciation for each because they have seen each played. (Aurification is in a casual gain-life deck of mine while No Mercy has been in cube)
That being said, I still am unsure if it should go in with this installment.
on Arenson's Aura et. al. You make a good point on the AoS. AoS will be added above either of the other two should we decide hate to be the way to go.
on StP: what is the "VS version"? and, if it is just $1, is it old-bordered?
Exile: yup, it isn't a true replacement for StP, it fills a different niche. That is one of the reasons it has made it onto this list for consideration. Should it be deferred until after i get a StP? Or do you think it is strong enough to compete for this round of additions?
morningtide: I liked it because it went global, but in the end, I think you're right. I'm looking for grave hate because one of our players has a major penchant for graveyard-tech, and wherever a yard-based deck is built, so too should appear adequate hate. I guess the answer is to look elsewhere.
What were your thoughts on the presence of mass removal on white? Namely, do you think it threatens the balance to add more?
RED:
mogg fanatic: we do play with damage stacking
Ball Lightning: It isn't out of my long-term goals, but since this addition is ahead on the next land installment, I think your point makes sense. Blistering Firecat replaces it for consideration in this round.
Jokulhaups: It is a reset button, I don't understand what you mean in your critique, how is it all that different from upheaval (which is a very good card)?
the goliath vs gargadon: they are each the red fatty that the opponent must reconsider their plays because of. I like your point about the gargadon. Goliath is a pet card of a friend that I have been attempting to oust from the cube for some time, I think he might be supportive with your argument.
BLACK:
It came down to harbinger, contamination, massacre, or duress. I actually really love the controlly feel that alot of the games have, and harbinger added a nice play to black under those circumstances. In the end though, I decided hosing white was just too important. Massacre wins in black.
LAND:
I should point out that for this cycle I'm looking specifically for lands that produce coloured mana and don't break the bank (unless I already own them). I like great lands like Volrath's Stronghold, but I want to keep the cycle consistent.
So, we have: Barbarian Ring in Red--decided
Kjeldoran Outpost in White--decided
Teferi's Isle in Blue--very close to decided: I've been avoiding the hideaway lands so shelldock is out; ruins produces only colourless, so it is out; and I never had the fortune of owning an academy, and I don't plan on shelling out that kind of cash on a single card right now. Cephalid Coliseum made a strong showing in my personal arguments, but the interaction between teferi's isle and things like sands of time or geddon effects made it win out
Green--in desperate need of suggestions, cradle is out for same reasons as academy and I just don't see another good land for this colour.
Black--Cabal Pit was compelling early on, but fixing for an entire colour all in one card still seems the strongest. bog is out for feeling too new and being too difficult to respond to. Volrath's was mentioned above. I can still be persuaded into the tower if you think it would see frequent play and would be better than urborg
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate the time you take for these thorough replies. what are your thoughts on the undecided categories? I'm still at a loss for what card to pick in white or red, and green land is a problem unto itself.
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I find your list pretty intimidating, since it isn't sorted by CMC or even by creature/noncreature. Combined with its size, that makes it pretty hard to comment, but my first thought upon seeing several of these cards is that I wouldn't even play them in block limited, let alone in Cube (Deathspore Thalid? Disciple of Malice?). Also, a lot of your cards seem like enablers for very linear strategies that only excelled in constructed because of the ability to build decks around them from an unlimited card pool and with 4 copies of key cards. Ravager isn't even the worst offender here - I just don't see how cards like Doomsday can even be playable in a limited format. That's especially true when you have no way of predicting what's going to be in pack 2, since it could be anything from Yawgmoth's Bargain to Necromancer's Magemark.
Like I said, I agree with everything eidolon posted, but his advice about trying to cut down to 720 stands out as stellar. I realize you're trying to create a unique drafting experience every time you sit down, but I think your list includes many cards that are just unplayable, and I think cutting them will greatly increase the fun you have while still ensuring that every draft is different.
EDIT -
I couldn't agree more. Your cube seems like it creates Balance vs Mtenda Herder scenarios, which just don't feel fair.
I'm working on cataloging the most recent update, I added many of the cheaper lands that needed to go in, the 2 painland cycles are still not ready to go in and the I am missing a skyshroud forest for the cipt pain cycle.
Much larger update than planned, looks like a lot of fun, black is gonna be seeing some subs soon tho.
I'll post a full list as soon as i can.
In other news: A portal2 Armageddon is sexy as hell and is gonna be in the next update (it was a little too pricy for this round)
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My initial organization was by mana cost (not cmc). so it went: W, W1, WW, W2, WW1, WWW, etc.
This was thrown off by a (relatively) recent update of cataloguing the cube. I'll try to introduce something a bit easier to read when I have the time, but it likely won't be for a bit, the quarter is starting to pick up for me and time is not the abundant commodity that it was earlier.
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Hurr Jackal (4th) --> Hurr Jackal (Arabian Nights)
Disciple of Malice --> Order of the Ebon Hand
Additions:
Land:
Artifacts:
Multicolour:
Black:
White:
Green:
Red:
Blue:
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I couldn't find a playable copy of Aura of Silence in time for this update, but a sub with that coming in is incoming too.
The cube is starting to reach the proper size, I may not let it grow to the planned 1000, it will largely depend on the land I find. We are seeing about the right amount of variation between drafts while not having any specific card too bomby.
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Out --> In
Auratouched Mage --> Mobilization
Spirit Loop --> Oblation
the mage and loop just weren't seeing play. They felt like the weakest cards in the cube and I'm psyched about the new additions replacing them. The fact that it is two new-bordered cards that are coming out for two old-bordered cards is just gravy.
My playgroup is still debating blue, especially sunken field and fervent denial's usefulness, but I'll post any extra changes when they come.
Black ended up with a duplicate of pestilence, so that will come out asap, either for a Knight of Stromgald or another removal spell
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It counters buyback, preserves bombs for for use later against removal and gets you card advantage whenever they cast any removal. It also is a sweet play with damage on the stack when your opponent thinks they finally forced a trade
That is without mentioning the obvious use of forcing through lethal damage
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Subs:
Dragon Whelp (Timeshifted) --> Dragon Whelp (3rd ed, french--black bordered)
the pestilence duplicate --> Thrashing Wumpus
Deathspore Thallid --> Yixlid Jailer
Enrage (Scourge) --> Blaze (Portal)
Heat Shimmer --> Words of War
Additions:
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Subs/Upgrades: mostly foil upgrades of older cards this time
New Additions: 29
Red: 4
Blue: 4
Green: 4
Black: 4
White: 4
Multicolour: 3
Artifact: 6
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it's hard for me to know whether a card makes the cut for a cube of this size, but these seem particularly unexciting. splinter is especially odd in a singleton format. the rest of your additions look good, though.
Hunting grounds is an oddity card that we just wanted to experiment with
Wake of destruction is meant to hose decks heavily committed to a colour
the rest are mostly test cards, but we'll see how they go. Null Brooch has had some good plays already and actually was being used as a mid-range deck's answer to control. Forcing through grip of chaos vs control via the brooch has been devastating
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The Lands section has some terrible lands in there for cube, and it seems like they are there just to make up numbers. I would honestly play the common onslaught and urza's cycling lands before I used the Masques depletion and storage lands.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
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