Alright! Back from prerelease and already some cards to add to the cube. Updated list to follow. I still need to pick up a Slave of Bolas and Colossal Might for starters.
I also have to figure out how I'm fitting in Marisi's Twinclaws as I'd prefer to not cut a Naya card. Not sure...
All and all I'm pretty satisfied with what Alara Reborn has to offer my cube. I think Cascade adds an awesome element to game play and I'm instantly intrigued no matter who is casting the spell. I have a few other cards I'd consider on my watch list. Ben Bleiweiss seems to think Intimidation Bolt is a super powerful ability and we're all underrating it because we haven't seen that mechanic very much. We'll see.
How do you feel about Talon Troopers vs. Silver Drake? There are some CiPcreatures in White and Blue but it seems like they are fewer than you would want around to abuse the drawback. What do you think?
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
How do you feel about Talon Troopers vs. Silver Drake? There are some CiPcreatures in White and Blue but it seems like they are fewer than you would want around to abuse the drawback. What do you think?
So I was able to answer this question in person but I'll post it here just for the sake of reference. Here's a primary list of creatures Silver Drake likes to work with:
I actually had a deck a few pages ago that abused quite a few of these. I was playing Kenny Mayer's Red/Black and he scooped up most games I played Silver Drake gaining me some sort of insane advantage. Here's the link: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=3660104&postcount=26
I do think Troopers is interesting but probably just shy of making the cube. I like vanilla creatures to be 5/4 for 3 and unfortunately flying probably isn't making up the difference.
i'm a huge fan of your cube, as i've made a very similar one myself and have been playing with it for about 2 weeks now, i find myself always playing black/green rock-ish for the removal and efficient green spells, but i just think i like putrefy too much...;)
a friend of mine always seems to draft as much ramp as possible, but can't always find enough big spells to pull it off. i feel this is kind of the same situation of the storage lands, i mean...if you don't have an Xspell in your deck it's kinda pointless, just wanted some feedback on this
srsbsns - Glad to hear you're having fun with it! Regarding your comments:
I intentionally excluded X spells from this cube because they tend to win games that are otherwise unwinable - and seemingly out of nowhere. That sort of thing can often make games miserable. While I think at this point the cube is at a power level where X spells might be interesting I believe the initial decision was correct.
That being said, you're right about the storage lands and they've been cut recently. The only reason I kept them in so long was to give them a chance to be used as fixing which they were, very understandably, terrible at. I also cut cards liked Explosive Vegetation based on the same arguments (though it's obviously a great fixer).
I think I'll really have to think about what sort of X spells I could add that would work. Rolling Thunder and Mind Twist are very unfair - but Blaze and maybe Fireball seem acceptable.
I intentionally excluded X spells from this cube because they tend to win games that are otherwise unwinable - and seemingly out of nowhere. That sort of thing can often make games miserable. While I think at this point the cube is at a power level where X spells might be interesting I believe the initial decision was correct.
...
I think I'll really have to think about what sort of X spells I could add that would work. Rolling Thunder and Mind Twist are very unfair - but Blaze and maybe Fireball seem acceptable.
How do you feel about X spells that use the X as a scaling factor for something in-color; that is, Blaze and Fireball can wreck someone who has stabilized the board and isn't running any sort of counter magic but spells like Molder, Heat Ray, and Disembowel seem pretty fair in terms of being an X spell. While removal like Disembowel is pretty bad (compared to access to other things), Heat Ray gives counterburn and RG beats access to removal for things with higher toughness, and Molder would seem a lot better if you had more artifacts in your cube.
It's pretty obvious that X spells that don't target a player won't be nearly as exciting but that X spells that do will invariably be a big shift in the game whenever they get played.
Edit:
I scoured your list for commons (you know why) and I had a question: why no Diabolic Edict? It's a common and it has a special foil version (http://magiccards.info/arena/en/40.html). Cruel Edict is certainly strong but Diabolic seems like a strict upgrade you can easily swap in.
Additionally, I found several card tag errors (just misspellings of the card names) and I've documented them, in your breakdown order, here:
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Thanks for the edit - think I corrected all the errors. Diabolic, Cruel, and
Chainer's Edict have all been in. I ended up cutting Cruel for the inferiority reason and just ended up deleting the wrong Edict from my list. Oops.
It's pretty obvious that X spells that don't target a player won't be nearly as exciting
I think I can just stop you there. I think it's probably go big or go home with the X spells. Ramping up to a spell that kills a creature sounds...less than appealing.
A reminder to myself: Posting some pics tonight of cool cards I've added as of late.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I think I'm mostly referring to the damage spells when referring to X spells I've excluded. Card I would consider for starters: Fireball, Kaervek's Torch, Disintegrate. Blaze is overshadowed by all of these. Hurricane is another powerful one that's potentially a blowout. Mind Twist is an obnoxious card that's often too powerful in rare cubes.
Keep in mind that I do have X spells in the cube already - just none that can blow out the opponent singlehandedly (a la 15 damage to the face).
I fully support Hurricane as green is underpowered and blue is overpowered. As far as Fireball and friends go I think they are very, very strong but would not be best cards in cube.
i've been working on collecting cards to build your cube, klug, and i have a question:
how good is Maze of Ith? i've played against it a lot in EDH and it can be absolutely devestating without some kind of LD. how highly is it picked?
also, the mini T-rex chicken is totally awesome.
Maze is a first pick over most "first pick cards." This is mainly due to it's colorless nature. That said like Loxodon Warhammer it is bad in some decks. Warhammer is bad in control decks with <10 threats. Maze is even worse in aggro decks. Even in the aggro mirror it is lacking as their creature becomes an untapped blocker.
That said there are very few cards I'd take over it p1p1 and unless I'm aggro I'll almost always first pick it packs 2&3.
Out: Tromp the Domains - Most of the 5 color decks would never play this card. This card has only been good as a second Overrun or in a three-four color green aggro deck. Seems like Hurricane would be better all around. Fiery Fall - As in Shards limited, you're not often cycling this card. As a burn spell in cube the flexibility doesn't out weight it's high cost to effect ratio. Puncture Blast - This is just a hunch. I haven't seen the Wither come into play really. 3 for 3 damage is below par so I'll give this the cut.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for better cuts, anything else.
Out: Tromp the Domains - Most of the 5 color decks would never play this card. This card has only been good as a second Overrun or in a three-four color green aggro deck. Seems like Hurricane would be better all around. Fiery Fall - As in Shards limited, you're not often cycling this card. As a burn spell in cube the flexibility doesn't out weight it's high cost to effect ratio. Puncture Blast - This is just a hunch. I haven't seen the Wither come into play really. 3 for 3 damage is below par so I'll give this the cut.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for better cuts, anything else.
As much as I am a fan of Arc Lightning, how often does this generate a 2-for-1? It has the same cost/benefit ratio as Puncture Blast; if the Arc consistently nails multiple X/1's and X/2's then I agree with cutting Puncture. Otherwise, you have enough fatties in the deck that Puncture should be more relevant; maybe it's not getting mainboarded due to the presence of so much other efficient burn? Perhaps cut both Puncture and Arc, leaving Fiery Fall in, and just keep burn spells that have at least 3 damage for 2 mana (and Magma Jet, which is a special case anyway).
I look at Fiery Fall and Spitebellows as similar cards that push opposing concepts: Fall hits for almost the same but can allow more color into a deck, while Spitebellows demands more Red sooner to be relevant. If you don't care as much about decks splashing/using a third color (you already have plenty of fixing elsewhere), Fall is a solid cut.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Out: Tromp the Domains - Most of the 5 color decks would never play this card. This card has only been good as a second Overrun or in a three-four color green aggro deck. Seems like Hurricane would be better all around. Fiery Fall - As in Shards limited, you're not often cycling this card. As a burn spell in cube the flexibility doesn't out weight it's high cost to effect ratio. Puncture Blast - This is just a hunch. I haven't seen the Wither come into play really. 3 for 3 damage is below par so I'll give this the cut.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for better cuts, anything else.
Yea, it's probably gotta be Puncture Blast or Lash Out if I had to choose a red spell to cut, since most of the others you have gain card advantage as sweepers or being able to target multiple dudes/players. That being said, didn't like Violent Eruption enough? I'm sure it's probably been covered somewhere in this thread, but the card has been really good for us in traditional cube, and seems utterly absurd in something like common/uncommon cube. The trips red w/o madness is probably a bit rough if R/x isn't a big thing, but even later in the game it's a pretty big blowout.
You gonna be at the Dream Wizards PTQ in like 2 weeks? I'd love to play a draft with this cube on the side if you're there and feel comfortable doing so.
EDIT: I guess Regionals this weekend could also work if you're attending and want to get in some cubeage.
I've cut my Overrun for Tromp the Domains.
It's just one mana more but so much more playable which encourages playing more colors which just makes the card better.
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Yea, it's probably gotta be Puncture Blast or Lash Out if I had to choose a red spell to cut, since most of the others you have gain card advantage as sweepers or being able to target multiple dudes/players.
Lash Out is either Lightning Bolt a creature and each player scry 1 or entwined Barbed Lightningand each player scry 1. The entwined Barbed Lightning for just 1R is pretty nuts, and in a deck full of powerful stuff scry effects (even just scry 1 which is what clash does) really make a difference. Unless they print Magma Jet 2.0 (1R; ~ deals three damage to target creature or player; Scry 2) Lash Out seems pretty good for its cost. I wouldn't cut it.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Lash Out is either Lightning Bolt a creature and each player scry 1 or entwined Barbed Lightningand each player scry 1. The entwined Barbed Lightning for just 1R is pretty nuts, and in a deck full of powerful stuff scry effects (even just scry 1 which is what clash does) really make a difference. Unless they print Magma Jet 2.0 (1R; ~ deals three damage to target creature or player; Scry 2) Lash Out seems pretty good for its cost. I wouldn't cut it.
Oh, I agree that it's completely awesome, especially in a cube most combat-oriented, but it strikes me as probably the weakest red spell outside of Fiery Fall and possibly Puncture Blast, but I could be very wrong on that as well since I don't really know how it performs in this cube.
It's part of the "3" cycle from Alpha, but as the only one it's rare.
See http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/feature/20030520a
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My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
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My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
Out:
Elder Mastery - filling a hole that didn't have too many options.
Wax/Wane
Watchwolf - Pridemage is much more impressive in comparison.
Hag Hedgemage
Plaxcaster Frogling
Wrecking Ball
Assault Battery
Branching Bolt
Fusion Elemental - this card was cute and sometimes saw play but is ultimately just taking up space.
Timespiral Charge Lands - these lands are pretty bad when you have no X-spells and your curve tends to top out at 6 or 7. Man they're bad.
IN:
I also have to figure out how I'm fitting in Marisi's Twinclaws as I'd prefer to not cut a Naya card. Not sure...
All and all I'm pretty satisfied with what Alara Reborn has to offer my cube. I think Cascade adds an awesome element to game play and I'm instantly intrigued no matter who is casting the spell. I have a few other cards I'd consider on my watch list. Ben Bleiweiss seems to think Intimidation Bolt is a super powerful ability and we're all underrating it because we haven't seen that mechanic very much. We'll see.
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It's 7th in row 4 of the pictures.
Also 1st listed in the blue creatures.
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So I was able to answer this question in person but I'll post it here just for the sake of reference. Here's a primary list of creatures Silver Drake likes to work with:
I actually had a deck a few pages ago that abused quite a few of these. I was playing Kenny Mayer's Red/Black and he scooped up most games I played Silver Drake gaining me some sort of insane advantage. Here's the link: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=3660104&postcount=26
I do think Troopers is interesting but probably just shy of making the cube. I like vanilla creatures to be 5/4 for 3 and unfortunately flying probably isn't making up the difference.
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a friend of mine always seems to draft as much ramp as possible, but can't always find enough big spells to pull it off. i feel this is kind of the same situation of the storage lands, i mean...if you don't have an Xspell in your deck it's kinda pointless, just wanted some feedback on this
great cube, lots of pimped out cards
I intentionally excluded X spells from this cube because they tend to win games that are otherwise unwinable - and seemingly out of nowhere. That sort of thing can often make games miserable. While I think at this point the cube is at a power level where X spells might be interesting I believe the initial decision was correct.
That being said, you're right about the storage lands and they've been cut recently. The only reason I kept them in so long was to give them a chance to be used as fixing which they were, very understandably, terrible at. I also cut cards liked Explosive Vegetation based on the same arguments (though it's obviously a great fixer).
I think I'll really have to think about what sort of X spells I could add that would work. Rolling Thunder and Mind Twist are very unfair - but Blaze and maybe Fireball seem acceptable.
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How do you feel about X spells that use the X as a scaling factor for something in-color; that is, Blaze and Fireball can wreck someone who has stabilized the board and isn't running any sort of counter magic but spells like Molder, Heat Ray, and Disembowel seem pretty fair in terms of being an X spell. While removal like Disembowel is pretty bad (compared to access to other things), Heat Ray gives counterburn and RG beats access to removal for things with higher toughness, and Molder would seem a lot better if you had more artifacts in your cube.
It's pretty obvious that X spells that don't target a player won't be nearly as exciting but that X spells that do will invariably be a big shift in the game whenever they get played.
Edit:
I scoured your list for commons (you know why) and I had a question: why no Diabolic Edict? It's a common and it has a special foil version (http://magiccards.info/arena/en/40.html). Cruel Edict is certainly strong but Diabolic seems like a strict upgrade you can easily swap in.
Additionally, I found several card tag errors (just misspellings of the card names) and I've documented them, in your breakdown order, here:
<W>
Azorius Herald
Biting Tether
Looter il-Kor
Mon-o'-War
Vedalken Dismisser
Plagued Rusalka
<R>
Rift Bolt
<G>
Wild Nacatl
Fyndhorn Elves
<R/W>
Goblin Legionnaire
<G/U>
Trygon Predator
<W/U>
Azorius Guildmage
<Artifacts>
Leonin Bola
Bonesplitter
Isochron Scepter
Azorius Signet
<Lands>
Azorius Chancery
Thanks for the edit - think I corrected all the errors. Diabolic, Cruel, and
Chainer's Edict have all been in. I ended up cutting Cruel for the inferiority reason and just ended up deleting the wrong Edict from my list. Oops.
I think I can just stop you there. I think it's probably go big or go home with the X spells. Ramping up to a spell that kills a creature sounds...less than appealing.
A reminder to myself: Posting some pics tonight of cool cards I've added as of late.
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Other than Blaze/Fireball, what X spells were you thinking of adding? Drain Life, Dawnglow Infusion, Prosperity?
Probably not in his common/uncommon cube.
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Keep in mind that I do have X spells in the cube already - just none that can blow out the opponent singlehandedly (a la 15 damage to the face).
And for fun - some new cards:
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My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
how good is Maze of Ith? i've played against it a lot in EDH and it can be absolutely devestating without some kind of LD. how highly is it picked?
also, the mini T-rex chicken is totally awesome.
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Maze is a first pick over most "first pick cards." This is mainly due to it's colorless nature. That said like Loxodon Warhammer it is bad in some decks. Warhammer is bad in control decks with <10 threats. Maze is even worse in aggro decks. Even in the aggro mirror it is lacking as their creature becomes an untapped blocker.
That said there are very few cards I'd take over it p1p1 and unless I'm aggro I'll almost always first pick it packs 2&3.
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
Out:
Tromp the Domains - Most of the 5 color decks would never play this card. This card has only been good as a second Overrun or in a three-four color green aggro deck. Seems like Hurricane would be better all around.
Fiery Fall - As in Shards limited, you're not often cycling this card. As a burn spell in cube the flexibility doesn't out weight it's high cost to effect ratio.
Puncture Blast - This is just a hunch. I haven't seen the Wither come into play really. 3 for 3 damage is below par so I'll give this the cut.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for better cuts, anything else.
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As much as I am a fan of Arc Lightning, how often does this generate a 2-for-1? It has the same cost/benefit ratio as Puncture Blast; if the Arc consistently nails multiple X/1's and X/2's then I agree with cutting Puncture. Otherwise, you have enough fatties in the deck that Puncture should be more relevant; maybe it's not getting mainboarded due to the presence of so much other efficient burn? Perhaps cut both Puncture and Arc, leaving Fiery Fall in, and just keep burn spells that have at least 3 damage for 2 mana (and Magma Jet, which is a special case anyway).
I look at Fiery Fall and Spitebellows as similar cards that push opposing concepts: Fall hits for almost the same but can allow more color into a deck, while Spitebellows demands more Red sooner to be relevant. If you don't care as much about decks splashing/using a third color (you already have plenty of fixing elsewhere), Fall is a solid cut.
Without more domain support, Tromp the Domains is an easy cut indeed. Now, if you ran Matca Rioters, Gaea's Might, Might of Alara, Exploding Borders, and Spore Burst I'd have to argue against cutting Tromp. (Tribal Flames would be hot in this mix as well. Just saying.)
Yea, it's probably gotta be Puncture Blast or Lash Out if I had to choose a red spell to cut, since most of the others you have gain card advantage as sweepers or being able to target multiple dudes/players. That being said, didn't like Violent Eruption enough? I'm sure it's probably been covered somewhere in this thread, but the card has been really good for us in traditional cube, and seems utterly absurd in something like common/uncommon cube. The trips red w/o madness is probably a bit rough if R/x isn't a big thing, but even later in the game it's a pretty big blowout.
You gonna be at the Dream Wizards PTQ in like 2 weeks? I'd love to play a draft with this cube on the side if you're there and feel comfortable doing so.
EDIT: I guess Regionals this weekend could also work if you're attending and want to get in some cubeage.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
It's just one mana more but so much more playable which encourages playing more colors which just makes the card better.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeLash Out is either Lightning Bolt a creature and each player scry 1 or entwined Barbed Lightning and each player scry 1. The entwined Barbed Lightning for just 1R is pretty nuts, and in a deck full of powerful stuff scry effects (even just scry 1 which is what clash does) really make a difference. Unless they print Magma Jet 2.0 (1R; ~ deals three damage to target creature or player; Scry 2) Lash Out seems pretty good for its cost. I wouldn't cut it.
Oh, I agree that it's completely awesome, especially in a cube most combat-oriented, but it strikes me as probably the weakest red spell outside of Fiery Fall and possibly Puncture Blast, but I could be very wrong on that as well since I don't really know how it performs in this cube.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)