I'm still waiting on a x4 common/uncommon set to start working on an RtR draft sim before really concentrating on edh. So far the only adddition I've made is mizzium mortars, in the place of a proxied imperial recruiters that's been niggling me for a while. This isn't an optimal swap at all, and more represents me trying to de-proxy my cube.
The previous post by Wildfire is really great (sorry I didn't comment on it,WF!), but I don't expect to make quite as many changes as he.
In no particular order, here are some cards I have my eye on and some possible substitutions:
Angel of Serenity; my one copy is being tied up by the rtr sim, so I'd probably have to crack one before shelling out again. Azor's Elocutors in place of swift silence; SS has been bothering me for a while and I've yet to see it played. The elocutors seem like a nice change of pace, and I love alt win cons. They'll fit in nicely with stuff like Felidar Sovereign. Necropolis Regent; This was one of the mythics I was most excited about. I've got a copy poised for the cube, but will have to spend a bit of time considering cards to cut.
For golgari, I'm hovering over Jarad's Orders in place of putrefy. If I manage to crack a vraska, that's going in immediately.
Wildfire has been presenting some good arguments for the cuttability of izzet chronarch. I picked up an extra Mercurial Chemister, so he may take that slot once I'm ready to start swapping. Rest in Peace is the final card I've been mulling over, as a boost to graveyard hate. In my cube, multiple games have just been run over by Karador players recurring things like fleshbag marauder over and over, unopposed by effects that wreck the gy.
DankDarko, do you have a cube list up yet?
I like to add a bunch of cards each time a set is released, to change things up. And also because there's a lot of good cards being released, and there's generally cards I'm unhappy with or strategies I'd like to improve.
Mizzium Mortars seems like a really solid card, because it's cheap spot removal and decently-costed mass removal. It's by no means better than or a replacement for the Recruiter, but if you can't find one and don't want to proxy it, it's fine. Angel of Serenity is quite possibly the best card for EDH in the set, so it's definitely something that needs to come in.
I don't know how I feel about the Elocutors. It seems like it's going to be way to easy to knock counters off of them, or find removal in the five-turn window it gives. Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict are both great effects to consider.
I don't know how I feel about the Reagent either. Let me know how it works out. Jarad's Orders is a card I would definitely include if my BG section wasn't so tight.
Chronarch should come out, but I don't know if Chemister deserves to go in in place of it - he seems kind of slow and clunky to me. Rest in Peace is definitely good as well.
I'm gonna pose to you the same question I posed to Wildfire. Where to you guys keep your spell:land split? Wildfire has his at 39:26 exactly in line with constructed, and we keep ours around 37:30 a high curve limited ratio. With your ratio, where do you guys normally start looking to the top of your deck for the next land without card advantage and not in green? And how do you adjust your numbers depending on the deck you play, if at all?
Much of my cube's original design was formulated using Wildfire's early draft, including deck size & main deck/land ratio. My group has had no practical issues with it, but I sometimes forget "39 business cards, 26 lands, +1 general;" it's kind of an awkward set of numbers. The number you cite for your own cube looks fine too, but I've never felt the need to deviate from what I'm currently going with. At this point, I actually vastly prefer the smaller, "draft sized" decks we produce out of the cube to regular edh decks.
Frankly, I haven't had enough sessions with my cube to start experimenting with deck size. If my players have already been doing this, they haven't reported it to me. Next time I get to play, I'll pose that question to the group and see what they think. As for the CA/CMC theory you mention above, I'm admittedly not a tight deck builder, and rarely go further than "I have x artifact mana, so I can cut x lands."
I like running a nice curve in my decks too, but I've been increasingly observing in the better players in my group that just spamming bomb after bomb turn 5+ can often completely steam roll a faster, lighter deck. This is another conceptual hurdle that I as a player need to work out... The fact that many of my friends can just crush me with my own cube leads me to believe I'm at least doing something right.
Here's the preliminary change list, including other substitutions that have been accumulating on my watch log. How quickly I can change up the cube will also be highly dependent on my pulls, and what I can trade for other stuff, although I'm confident I'll get 90%+ of what I want in the first go.
I broke down and reposted the cube, lumping together WUBRG and colorless cards by CMC. I hope this leads to better readability and ease of performing comparisons/analyses.
Current AVG CMC: ~4.05
Added a breakdown of the cube's color identity distribution to the info section:
Heya Dolono, was wondering if anyone's drafted Zedruu? How was she in practice? There's a crazy primer for her over on the EDH boards that made me think about some fairly wacky enchantment theme to add, but the deck just uses her as a draw engine.
Heya Dolono, was wondering if anyone's drafted Zedruu? How was she in practice? There's a crazy primer for her over on the EDH boards that made me think about some fairly wacky enchantment theme to add, but the deck just uses her as a draw engine.
I've had a couple of players use her for the colors, but I think she is perhaps too much of a build-around-me card to reach her true potential in cube. Were wizards to release another half-way decent numot-colored general, I'd replace her in a second.
I'll check out the primer you referenced in your post, in case there are any neglected cards that a. work well with zedruu, and b. have broader applicability in the cube itself.
So with the full spoiler now out what do you think will change in the cube if anything?
I myself think Obzedat's Aid will propably make it into my cube
Thanks for the interest! I haven't gotten a chance to digest the full spoiler yet, but I will over the next week. Below is a preliminary list I posted in the multi-player thread. I'll update the is post once I've made another review, but there are some definite changes I'm anticipating!
Yes I am, It differs abit from yours though. I have only 3-5 color generals and the Nephelims (which we count as legendarys) and the rest of the cube is basicly mana fixes in different forms and shapes and heavy color themed and split cards and hybrid spells ^^
Yours sounds very interesting. I'm sure I and other folks would love to see it. Please post!
When I first started the cube, I was considering loosening up the color identity restrictions on hybrid cards, to help facilitate newer players' entry into cube and the edh format, but it quickly became apparent that this was unnecessary and that even new-to-magic players were easily able to grasp and follow CI rules.
As for mono colored generals, I've been able to personally draft mono black (Drana) on a couple of occasions, so I know it can be done. I've included many mono colored legends in the main cube, available for draft and general selection, but I imagine that for certain colors (green esp) it would be practically impossible for one player to corner enough for a legal mono-colored deck. I guess it could theoretically happen in a game where none of the opponents draft generals with that color, but the odds are really low.
Finally, in my ravnica pauper edh cube I loosened color identity rules, allowing a player to select 1 additional to add to their guild general's palatte (ex ascended lawmage + green = bant colors are legal). This was done in the interest of making sure color competition wasn't too onerous, but also to allow players some leeway in exploring the weaker, more insular pauper rav environment. In my normal edh cube, all of the colors are powerful and have plenty going for them. I don't think there's a need to expand CI rules, short of some kind of gimmicky one-time draft. Most of the folks in my cube group are pretty conservative in their magic playing habits, and I don't even think they'd want to deviate from the normal game...
+Anax and Cymede (test) - been wanting a low CMC boros general for a long time now; will have to see how well the enchantment/pump suite works with this one
+Tymaret, the Murder King (to test) - low CMC reanimator/durdle general; will probably need to snag a gravecrawler for the main cube
+Triad of Fates (to test) - still holding out for an obzedat in this slot, but I'm willing to give this one a test
-Brion Stoutarm - underused
-Kaervek the Merciless - underused
-Ghost Council of Orzhova - underused; not sure if this card could ever reach its full potential in cube
Theros updates are up at cubetutor. I'm working on another expansion draft sim, so for the foreseeable future, many of the expensive theros cards will be funneled into that project.
Commander 2013 is looking fruitful so far. I can already picture using all 4 of the generals spoiled so far!
I think you basically hit the nail on the head with your cube list. I can't tell if it's a work of art or a work of magic. I'd love to be able to draft that cube, might copy your list if that's okay!
How does it compare to both regular Commander and regular cube? Is it more fun to play? How long did it take you to build it?
How does it compare to both regular Commander and regular cube? Is it more fun to play? How long did it take you to build it?
After this weekend, I may have finally nailed the coffin shut on playing (non-pauper) constructed EDH ever again. I just don't like playing that format any more; too swingy, takes to long for too little enjoyment, frequently runs up against too asymmetrical deck power levels, etc. Commander cube OTOH, I think solves practically all of my problems with respect to move even powered decks, diversity of strategies and card usage, less redundancy of card incidence, and is more forgiving to folks that don't have deep edh collections (ie, they can just play).
I also like the deck size ~66 cards a lot better than 100. While I know edh enthusiasts will defend the 100 card deck to death as tradition, I just find it unwieldy, and that the 66-card singleton format is perfectly capable of reproducing coherent, streamlined, and fully functional edh decks.
Finally, I've stated this earlier in the thread, but I started the cube because I owned so many, unused edh staples from trying out different colors and decks when the format was first getting popular. I wanted to build a cube because I was getting frustrated that so many cards were just sitting in my collection, I was sick of making redundant staple purchases, and I was also going through a period of hating constructed game play at my FLGS. It took about 6 months to get the cube approximately where I wanted it, in terms of size and breadth of collection, although I will say that even the first sessions of the cube were incredibly fun and rewarding.
EDIT: Just one little addenda, Oglor. The new commander precons would probably be a fantastic foundation to build a commander cube on top of, in much the same way that folks have been discussing building their first regular cube off the back of a box of modern masters.
+Unexpectedly Absent
-Dawn Charm - this is a bit of pet card of mine, but is unfortunately a weak link, given the embarrassment of riches C13 has provided
Black
+Bloodghast
-Bitter Ordeal - with Sharuum exiting the cube, this card's combo potential is greatly reduces; also I have never seen this used, sharuum or otherwise
+Ophiomancer - seems like a great addition to sac, token, and clamp-abuse strategies
-Abyssal Persecutor - has been too difficult to abuse/exploit properly in the cube format
+Toxic Deluge - fantastic new card, must-include
-Imp's Mischief - another pet card unfortunately getting the axe; too low impact at this point
+Gray Merchant of Asphodel
-Maga, Traitor to Mortals - have not seen this run, even in big-mana black; part of a slow but inexorable purge of many CMC=X effects, also want to see how gray merchant performs
+Stranglehold - late late late addition
-Price of Progress - the substantially reduced number of non-basics played during cube sessions, as compared with constructed edh, has shown that this card just doesn't have quite the potential in this format.
Guild
+Reaper of the Wilds - scry ability seems to have potential in a sac/token/durdle archetype
-Vulturous Zombie - even though VZ is still good, it just isn't interesting enough these days
+Roon of the Hidden Realm - opens up new and interesting deck options for bant
-Phelddagrif - I don't support the group hug archetype in my cube, and although a very interesting card, grif is just outclassed by other bant options.
+Marath, Will of the Wild - very cool, dynamic general. I like the comparisons to a red Ghave
-Rith, the Awakener - under-performer, especially compared to options such as Hazezon Tamar ($$)
Hello everyone. I am new to cube but would like a few tips on how to handle the whole packs per person for EDH cube. I have around 4-6 people who would regularly be drafting, so would something like this size of cube be too large or would I just up deck sizes and packs per person? Any help would be great.
Hello everyone. I am new to cube but would like a few tips on how to handle the whole packs per person for EDH cube. I have around 4-6 people who would regularly be drafting, so would something like this size of cube be too large or would I just up deck sizes and packs per person? Any help would be great.
I built mine to do double duty as both a cube and edh deck hangar. The current size of it more or less represents how many cards feel like I'm getting proper use out of my edh collection; therefore it's a bit bigger than I'd expect someone just starting theirs to build. Mine can support an 8 person session, with some breathing room left over. I personally enjoy this as variety, more than consistency, is my main interest/concern for the cube.
You've already mentioned the number of people you're expecting to play, so then the next decisions you'll want to make are the size of draft decks you want players to make (between 60-100 cards), and how much of the cube you generally want to see/use during any given session.
Wildfire393 and I both draft something in the neighborhood of 5 packs of 15 cards and both enforce 66 card decks (65 + 1 general). This means that players will draft about 75 cards, use 40 of them main deck, and add 25 lands and their general (=66). Using this pack configuration with the number players you mentioned above means that I'd want at least 75x6 cards +/- however you decide to incorporate your generals into the cube (in the cube, or separate).
Hello everyone. I am new to cube but would like a few tips on how to handle the whole packs per person for EDH cube. I have around 4-6 people who would regularly be drafting, so would something like this size of cube be too large or would I just up deck sizes and packs per person? Any help would be great.
While you COULD scale up the number of packs and deck sizes with fewer than eight players, it's generally a better idea to just use less of your Cube. You could also use a smaller Cube to begin with, but I like having the option to go 8 people even if I could only regularly get 6.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
When I first built the cube, I lumped all of my land together in one section, irrespective of color identity. Now that I'm move the cube over to cubetutor, the slight imbalance in color identity representation is bothering me.
Proposed "balancing" of color sections (90 WUBRG, 100 multi, 130 colorless):
White (-1)
- Armageddon - this cut has been repeatedly requested by some members of my group, and is a relatively painless for me.
Blue (-3)
- Riptide Laboratory - this made it into my edh collection after snapcaster got released. I don't recall seeing it in anything other than deck hangar-constructed decks
- twincast - underused, and red fills the spell clone role a bit better
- time stop - an annoying pet card of mine, but probably better in mono blue constructed. tough cut for me
Black (-3)
- Dread - it doesn't appear to be used much these days, and has probably been a bit outclassed by other cards
- wound reflection - part of the expensive reflection cycle, under used
- necrotic ooze while it has interesting combo applications, I've yet to see it effectively used in cube
Green (-1)
- hydra omnivore - hydra's ability on paper is pretty impressive, but the lack of evasion or trample means it can be chumped for days.
Multi (-4/+2)
- mortify - plain jane effect. I agree with Wildfire393 these days that the guild sections should be the forums for more interesting/splashy effects, while the mono sections should be the home of more mundane removal/draw/utility effects
- desolate lighthouse - under used
- balefire liege - I was going to wait to see how Iroas is before cutting liege, but my boros section is a little fat, and liege just doesn't support the archetypes I want to see in cube
- duergar hedge-mage - I think white and red have adequate ways of dealing with enchants and artifacts without spending a boros slot
+ gaze of granite - tentative change. This may have too much role overlap with deed, but I don't have my collection available to scrutinize for alternatives
+ progenitor mimic - overdue inclusion
When I first built the cube, I lumped all of my land together in one section, irrespective of color identity. Now that I'm move the cube over to cubetutor, the slight imbalance in color identity representation is bothering me.
Proposed "balancing" of color sections (90 WUBRG, 100 multi, 130 colorless):
White (-1)
- Armageddon - this cut has been repeatedly requested by some members of my group, and is a relatively painless for me.
Blue (-3)
- Riptide Laboratory - this made it into my edh collection after snapcaster got released. I don't recall seeing it in anything other than deck hangar-constructed decks
- twincast - underused, and red fills the spell clone role a bit better
- time stop - an annoying pet card of mine, but probably better in mono blue constructed. tough cut for me
Black (-3)
- Dread - it doesn't appear to be used much these days, and has probably been a bit outclassed by other cards
- wound reflection - part of the expensive reflection cycle, under used
- necrotic ooze while it has interesting combo applications, I've yet to see it effectively used in cube
Green (-1)
- hydra omnivore - hydra's ability on paper is pretty impressive, but the lack of evasion or trample means it can be chumped for days.
Multi (-4/+2)
- mortify - plain jane effect. I agree with Wildfire393 these days that the guild sections should be the forums for more interesting/splashy effects, while the mono sections should be the home of more mundane removal/draw/utility effects
- desolate lighthouse - under used
- balefire liege - I was going to wait to see how Iroas is before cutting liege, but my boros section is a little fat, and liege just doesn't support the archetypes I want to see in cube
- duergar hedge-mage - I think white and red have adequate ways of dealing with enchants and artifacts without spending a boros slot
+ gaze of granite - tentative change. This may have too much role overlap with deed, but I don't have my collection available to scrutinize for alternatives
+ progenitor mimic - overdue inclusion
I had approximately the same thing happen to me. I started out with a "lands" section that included all of the non-basics, and then in one of my first revamps, I color-identified everything. In the same revamp, I cut the green signets and slotted the non-green ones into their appropriate guild, then leveled off the guilds with those new numbers.
As far as your cuts go:
Geddon is a fine cut. I had someone ask me to put more Geddon effects in the Cube once, but they really just wanted to use Kaalia + Geddon. No one else has ever asked for them, and I've had people freak out upon seeing Decree of Annihilation before.
Riptide Lab is kind of too niche. You'll only really have a small handful of targets (Snappy, Venser, Archaeomancer maybe)
Twincast yeah, Blue can do a lot better to things for 2 mana
Time Stop is one of the few expensive blue counters I still run. It counters both spells and abilities, counters uncounterables, and exiles. It's pretty strong, though I could definitely see losing it.
Dread is meh.
Wound Reflection is interesting, but I could see it going
Necrotic Ooze is one Theogony likes quite a bit. I ran it and cut it for lack of targets. It does funny things with Kiki-jiki sometimes but that's about it.
Hydra Omnivore is pretty meh. Sure, it swings for 24 total damage in a 4-player game, but it's pretty much vanilla. I cut mine for Giant Adephahge, a slightly more interesting beatmachine.
Mortify - with so many interesting options for Orzhov, it's really hard to justify this one. I think I can come up with 11 Orzhov cards I'd rather have than this, since Ashen Rider came out.
Desolate Lighthouse - This is my #1 Izzet card. Izzet is a weak guild, and strong lands are basically auto-include due to the fact that they don't take up a spell slot. You've got a lot of wonky stuff in your Izzet section I'd cut before this.
Balefire Liege - Yeah this guy is pretty dull.
Dueregar Hedge-Mage - I like this guy a lot and put him as #2 or #3 in the guild. He's a 3 drop potential 3-for-1. It's like strapping Wear/Tear or Hull Breach to a bear. I'd cut Master Warcraft before this.
And as for adds:
Gaze of Granite - Pretty sure this is the first card I'd look to in Golgari if I were adding a card. Universal Sweepers are something I'll jam every time.
Progenitor Mimic - For sure
Liquimetal Coating - Fine. There's probably more exciting things you could include but it plays well with Sydri and some others.
Fellwar Stone - 2-drop mana rocks are something I don't think I could ever get enough of.
Strionic Resonator - Yeah. Let me know how this works out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I like to add a bunch of cards each time a set is released, to change things up. And also because there's a lot of good cards being released, and there's generally cards I'm unhappy with or strategies I'd like to improve.
Mizzium Mortars seems like a really solid card, because it's cheap spot removal and decently-costed mass removal. It's by no means better than or a replacement for the Recruiter, but if you can't find one and don't want to proxy it, it's fine.
Angel of Serenity is quite possibly the best card for EDH in the set, so it's definitely something that needs to come in.
I don't know how I feel about the Elocutors. It seems like it's going to be way to easy to knock counters off of them, or find removal in the five-turn window it gives. Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict are both great effects to consider.
I don't know how I feel about the Reagent either. Let me know how it works out.
Jarad's Orders is a card I would definitely include if my BG section wasn't so tight.
Chronarch should come out, but I don't know if Chemister deserves to go in in place of it - he seems kind of slow and clunky to me.
Rest in Peace is definitely good as well.
What about Cyclonic Rift?
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor
Frankly, I haven't had enough sessions with my cube to start experimenting with deck size. If my players have already been doing this, they haven't reported it to me. Next time I get to play, I'll pose that question to the group and see what they think. As for the CA/CMC theory you mention above, I'm admittedly not a tight deck builder, and rarely go further than "I have x artifact mana, so I can cut x lands."
I like running a nice curve in my decks too, but I've been increasingly observing in the better players in my group that just spamming bomb after bomb turn 5+ can often completely steam roll a faster, lighter deck. This is another conceptual hurdle that I as a player need to work out... The fact that many of my friends can just crush me with my own cube leads me to believe I'm at least doing something right.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Here's the preliminary change list, including other substitutions that have been accumulating on my watch log. How quickly I can change up the cube will also be highly dependent on my pulls, and what I can trade for other stuff, although I'm confident I'll get 90%+ of what I want in the first go.
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Requiem Angel
Blue:
1 Soothsaying
1 Trade Secrets
1 Concentrate
1 Reaper from the Abyss
1 Nightmare Incursion
Red:
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Recoup
Green:
1 Moldgraf Monstrosity
1 Necromancer's Covenant
Dimir:
1 Memory Plunder
Gruul:
1 Burning-Tree Shaman
Generals:
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Radha, Heir to Keld
1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
1 Experiment Kraj
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Angel of Serenity
Blue:
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Mystic Remora
1 Opposition
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Lord of the Void
Red:
1 Molten Primordial
1 Hellkite Tyrant
Green:
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Merciless Eviction
Dimir:
1 Whispering Madness
Gruul:
1 Clan Defiance
Generals:
1 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
1 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
Thinking of adding back in psychosis crawler and maybe memory jar to further strengthen the wheel/niv mizzet/whispering madness angle.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Current AVG CMC: ~4.05
Added a breakdown of the cube's color identity distribution to the info section:
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Thanks.
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
I've had a couple of players use her for the colors, but I think she is perhaps too much of a build-around-me card to reach her true potential in cube. Were wizards to release another half-way decent numot-colored general, I'd replace her in a second.
I'll check out the primer you referenced in your post, in case there are any neglected cards that a. work well with zedruu, and b. have broader applicability in the cube itself.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Thanks for the comments about Zed, figured that'd be the case, but with only 2 slots in those colours I'd rather her than Ruhan.
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
Thanks for the interest! I haven't gotten a chance to digest the full spoiler yet, but I will over the next week. Below is a preliminary list I posted in the multi-player thread. I'll update the is post once I've made another review, but there are some definite changes I'm anticipating!
Are you the owner of an edh cube yourself?
EDITED - 4/25
1 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
1 Varolz, The Scar Stripped
Black
1 Blood Scrivner
Boros
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Deadbridge Chant
Gruul
1 Savageborn Hydra
Izzet
1 Turn/Burn
1 Ral Zarek
1 Debt to the Deathless
Rakdos
1 Sire of Insanity
Simic
1 Plasm Capture
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
1 Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
Black
1 Mindslicer
Boros
1 Razia's Purification
1 Gleancrawler
Gruul
1 Savage Twister
Izzet
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Stitch in Time
1 Death Grasp
Rakdos
1 Spiteful Visions
Simic
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Simic Sky Swallower
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Yours sounds very interesting. I'm sure I and other folks would love to see it. Please post!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
My group would love an EDH cube. I'm assuming you adhere to the usual EDH color identity restrictions, correct?
Have you ever tested with mono-colored generals by relaxing the color identity rule?
My 1994 Magic Cube
Japanese cards on eBay -- Legacy, Modern, EDH, Cube.
As for mono colored generals, I've been able to personally draft mono black (Drana) on a couple of occasions, so I know it can be done. I've included many mono colored legends in the main cube, available for draft and general selection, but I imagine that for certain colors (green esp) it would be practically impossible for one player to corner enough for a legal mono-colored deck. I guess it could theoretically happen in a game where none of the opponents draft generals with that color, but the odds are really low.
Finally, in my ravnica pauper edh cube I loosened color identity rules, allowing a player to select 1 additional to add to their guild general's palatte (ex ascended lawmage + green = bant colors are legal). This was done in the interest of making sure color competition wasn't too onerous, but also to allow players some leeway in exploring the weaker, more insular pauper rav environment. In my normal edh cube, all of the colors are powerful and have plenty going for them. I don't think there's a need to expand CI rules, short of some kind of gimmicky one-time draft. Most of the folks in my cube group are pretty conservative in their magic playing habits, and I don't even think they'd want to deviate from the normal game...
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Mono-green can indeed be tough to pull off, because most of your staples (things like Eldrazi, Tooth and Nail, Genesis Wave, Survival of the Fittest, Primeval Titan, Sylvan Primordial, Gaea's Cradle, Avenger of Zendikar, etc) tend to be VERY high picks, but I've done it a few times, as have others.
There's a few cards in most of the colors and artifact that reward mono-color play, things like Gauntlet of Power, Gauntlet of Might, Caged Sun, Koth of the Hammer, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Cabal Coffers, Nirkana Revenant, Crypt Ghast, Blood Moon, Emeria, the Sky Ruin, etc. It's neat because these tend to be pretty low picks outside of the mono-color decks, so it's pretty easy to assemble them if you're the only mono at the table.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
+Anax and Cymede (test) - been wanting a low CMC boros general for a long time now; will have to see how well the enchantment/pump suite works with this one
+Tymaret, the Murder King (to test) - low CMC reanimator/durdle general; will probably need to snag a gravecrawler for the main cube
+Triad of Fates (to test) - still holding out for an obzedat in this slot, but I'm willing to give this one a test
-Brion Stoutarm - underused
-Kaervek the Merciless - underused
-Ghost Council of Orzhova - underused; not sure if this card could ever reach its full potential in cube
+Curse of the Swine - another blue pseudo-sweeper + exile
-knowledge exploitation - hold over from my thada adel constructed days; never saw this used
+Nighthowler - hard hitting pseudo-equip creature
-Consume Spirit - underused
+Hero's Downfall - unconditional + planeswalker removal
-Eyeblight's Ending - outclassed
+Whip of Erebos - more reanimator support
-Beseech the Queen - better tutors are available
+Ember Swallower - support for potential wildfire archetype
-Greater Gargadon - underused
+Prophet of Kruphix - revamping simic section
-Simic Sky Swallower - unfortunately getting outclassed these days
+Xenagos, the Reveler - test
-Clan Defiance - X-spells are really under performing in my experience
+Steam Augury - good addition to the izzet section
-Forgot I had already replaced izzet chronarch with epic experiment. Switch will require a little more thought...
+Burnished Hart - equip carrier + colorless ramp
-fireshrieker - underused
+Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - a shot in the arm for mono colored
-landed up selling instead
Gonna wait for prices to cool down on a bunch of the gods, planeswalkers, $5+ stuff before deciding whether I want to include any...
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Commander 2013 is looking fruitful so far. I can already picture using all 4 of the generals spoiled so far!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
How does it compare to both regular Commander and regular cube? Is it more fun to play? How long did it take you to build it?
After this weekend, I may have finally nailed the coffin shut on playing (non-pauper) constructed EDH ever again. I just don't like playing that format any more; too swingy, takes to long for too little enjoyment, frequently runs up against too asymmetrical deck power levels, etc. Commander cube OTOH, I think solves practically all of my problems with respect to move even powered decks, diversity of strategies and card usage, less redundancy of card incidence, and is more forgiving to folks that don't have deep edh collections (ie, they can just play).
I also like the deck size ~66 cards a lot better than 100. While I know edh enthusiasts will defend the 100 card deck to death as tradition, I just find it unwieldy, and that the 66-card singleton format is perfectly capable of reproducing coherent, streamlined, and fully functional edh decks.
Finally, I've stated this earlier in the thread, but I started the cube because I owned so many, unused edh staples from trying out different colors and decks when the format was first getting popular. I wanted to build a cube because I was getting frustrated that so many cards were just sitting in my collection, I was sick of making redundant staple purchases, and I was also going through a period of hating constructed game play at my FLGS. It took about 6 months to get the cube approximately where I wanted it, in terms of size and breadth of collection, although I will say that even the first sessions of the cube were incredibly fun and rewarding.
EDIT: Just one little addenda, Oglor. The new commander precons would probably be a fantastic foundation to build a commander cube on top of, in much the same way that folks have been discussing building their first regular cube off the back of a box of modern masters.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
White
+Act of Authority
-Rule of Law - I have never seen this used
+Angel of Finality - graveyard hate on stick
-Auramancer - weak card replacement
+Darksteel Mutation - removal upgrade
-Prison Term
+Unexpectedly Absent
-Dawn Charm - this is a bit of pet card of mine, but is unfortunately a weak link, given the embarrassment of riches C13 has provided
+Angelic Accord
+Spear of Heliod - more anthem, token, + Zur support
-Commander Eesha
Black
+Bloodghast
-Bitter Ordeal - with Sharuum exiting the cube, this card's combo potential is greatly reduces; also I have never seen this used, sharuum or otherwise
+Curse of Shallow Graves - to test
-enslave - too expensive
+Ophiomancer - seems like a great addition to sac, token, and clamp-abuse strategies
-Abyssal Persecutor - has been too difficult to abuse/exploit properly in the cube format
+Toxic Deluge - fantastic new card, must-include
-Imp's Mischief - another pet card unfortunately getting the axe; too low impact at this point
+Gray Merchant of Asphodel
-Maga, Traitor to Mortals - have not seen this run, even in big-mana black; part of a slow but inexorable purge of many CMC=X effects, also want to see how gray merchant performs
Red
+Tempt with Vengeance
-lightning bolt - this was a placeholder for a bonfire of the damned I never landed up getting...
+Stranglehold - late late late addition
-Price of Progress - the substantially reduced number of non-basics played during cube sessions, as compared with constructed edh, has shown that this card just doesn't have quite the potential in this format.
Green
+Bane of Progress - best green card in the set
-Primordial Hydra - CMC=X purge
Guild
+Reaper of the Wilds - scry ability seems to have potential in a sac/token/durdle archetype
-Vulturous Zombie - even though VZ is still good, it just isn't interesting enough these days
Colorless
+Eye of Doom
-Icy Manipulator - too low impact
+Surveyor's Scope ü
-Stuffy Doll - meh
+ Liquimetal Coating - Sydri, combo, and artifact kill fodder
+Opal Palace - want to increase voltron support
-Rishadan Port - too low impact
Generals
+Roon of the Hidden Realm - opens up new and interesting deck options for bant
-Phelddagrif - I don't support the group hug archetype in my cube, and although a very interesting card, grif is just outclassed by other bant options.
+Marath, Will of the Wild - very cool, dynamic general. I like the comparisons to a red Ghave
-Rith, the Awakener - under-performer, especially compared to options such as Hazezon Tamar ($$)
+Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge - will need to see if this is general gets out of hand
-Sedris, the Traitor King - under used
+Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
-Sen Triplets - too narrow, hard to support
+Sydri, Galvanic Genius
-Sharuum the Hegemon - too narrow
+Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - card I was the most excited for out of the entire 2013 commander line!
-Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper - outclassed
+Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
-Tymaret, the Murder King - too hastey inclusion
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
I built mine to do double duty as both a cube and edh deck hangar. The current size of it more or less represents how many cards feel like I'm getting proper use out of my edh collection; therefore it's a bit bigger than I'd expect someone just starting theirs to build. Mine can support an 8 person session, with some breathing room left over. I personally enjoy this as variety, more than consistency, is my main interest/concern for the cube.
You've already mentioned the number of people you're expecting to play, so then the next decisions you'll want to make are the size of draft decks you want players to make (between 60-100 cards), and how much of the cube you generally want to see/use during any given session.
Wildfire393 and I both draft something in the neighborhood of 5 packs of 15 cards and both enforce 66 card decks (65 + 1 general). This means that players will draft about 75 cards, use 40 of them main deck, and add 25 lands and their general (=66). Using this pack configuration with the number players you mentioned above means that I'd want at least 75x6 cards +/- however you decide to incorporate your generals into the cube (in the cube, or separate).
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
While you COULD scale up the number of packs and deck sizes with fewer than eight players, it's generally a better idea to just use less of your Cube. You could also use a smaller Cube to begin with, but I like having the option to go 8 people even if I could only regularly get 6.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Proposed "balancing" of color sections (90 WUBRG, 100 multi, 130 colorless):
White (-1)
- Armageddon - this cut has been repeatedly requested by some members of my group, and is a relatively painless for me.
Blue (-3)
- Riptide Laboratory - this made it into my edh collection after snapcaster got released. I don't recall seeing it in anything other than deck hangar-constructed decks
- twincast - underused, and red fills the spell clone role a bit better
- time stop - an annoying pet card of mine, but probably better in mono blue constructed. tough cut for me
Black (-3)
- Dread - it doesn't appear to be used much these days, and has probably been a bit outclassed by other cards
- wound reflection - part of the expensive reflection cycle, under used
- necrotic ooze while it has interesting combo applications, I've yet to see it effectively used in cube
Green (-1)
- hydra omnivore - hydra's ability on paper is pretty impressive, but the lack of evasion or trample means it can be chumped for days.
Multi (-4/+2)
- mortify - plain jane effect. I agree with Wildfire393 these days that the guild sections should be the forums for more interesting/splashy effects, while the mono sections should be the home of more mundane removal/draw/utility effects
- desolate lighthouse - under used
- balefire liege - I was going to wait to see how Iroas is before cutting liege, but my boros section is a little fat, and liege just doesn't support the archetypes I want to see in cube
- duergar hedge-mage - I think white and red have adequate ways of dealing with enchants and artifacts without spending a boros slot
+ gaze of granite - tentative change. This may have too much role overlap with deed, but I don't have my collection available to scrutinize for alternatives
+ progenitor mimic - overdue inclusion
Colorless (+3)
+ liquimetal coating -
+ fellwar stone - keep getting requests for more mana rocks
+ strionic resonator - more wizards planted edh fodder
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I had approximately the same thing happen to me. I started out with a "lands" section that included all of the non-basics, and then in one of my first revamps, I color-identified everything. In the same revamp, I cut the green signets and slotted the non-green ones into their appropriate guild, then leveled off the guilds with those new numbers.
As far as your cuts go:
Geddon is a fine cut. I had someone ask me to put more Geddon effects in the Cube once, but they really just wanted to use Kaalia + Geddon. No one else has ever asked for them, and I've had people freak out upon seeing Decree of Annihilation before.
Riptide Lab is kind of too niche. You'll only really have a small handful of targets (Snappy, Venser, Archaeomancer maybe)
Twincast yeah, Blue can do a lot better to things for 2 mana
Time Stop is one of the few expensive blue counters I still run. It counters both spells and abilities, counters uncounterables, and exiles. It's pretty strong, though I could definitely see losing it.
Dread is meh.
Wound Reflection is interesting, but I could see it going
Necrotic Ooze is one Theogony likes quite a bit. I ran it and cut it for lack of targets. It does funny things with Kiki-jiki sometimes but that's about it.
Hydra Omnivore is pretty meh. Sure, it swings for 24 total damage in a 4-player game, but it's pretty much vanilla. I cut mine for Giant Adephahge, a slightly more interesting beatmachine.
Mortify - with so many interesting options for Orzhov, it's really hard to justify this one. I think I can come up with 11 Orzhov cards I'd rather have than this, since Ashen Rider came out.
Desolate Lighthouse - This is my #1 Izzet card. Izzet is a weak guild, and strong lands are basically auto-include due to the fact that they don't take up a spell slot. You've got a lot of wonky stuff in your Izzet section I'd cut before this.
Balefire Liege - Yeah this guy is pretty dull.
Dueregar Hedge-Mage - I like this guy a lot and put him as #2 or #3 in the guild. He's a 3 drop potential 3-for-1. It's like strapping Wear/Tear or Hull Breach to a bear. I'd cut Master Warcraft before this.
And as for adds:
Gaze of Granite - Pretty sure this is the first card I'd look to in Golgari if I were adding a card. Universal Sweepers are something I'll jam every time.
Progenitor Mimic - For sure
Liquimetal Coating - Fine. There's probably more exciting things you could include but it plays well with Sydri and some others.
Fellwar Stone - 2-drop mana rocks are something I don't think I could ever get enough of.
Strionic Resonator - Yeah. Let me know how this works out.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!