Collector's Edition has gotten really pricey, too at least for Power and duals. I was disappointed with how much I'd have to spend to black border my duals. Yeah, it's cheaper than Beta but still more money than I expected them to be. I think the EDH players have caught on to the awesomeness and it's driving the price up.
Hey guys its been a long time with an update. I went to GP: Montreal this past weekend and picked up some sweetness for the cube and got some delightful alters done by Chippy and rk post which I will post soon. Here are my pre-Innistrad changes:
Something else I have been mulling around is potentially cutting some of the IA/Apo painlands to put in some M12/Enemy duels. Ideally I have the U/x lands be M12/INN duels while GW being Horizon Canopy, and finally have WB, WR, BR, BG, RG being the painlands.
Looks like 100% upgrades (it's arguable that Liege->Glissa is more of a sidestep than an upgrade as both cards are pretty good). I'm not convinced on Mindshrieker yet, but I guess that's what testing a card is for. I'm interested to hear how it works out for you. Overall I feel you're being extremely conservative in your additions from this new set given that you also have a 720 cube, but that should be fine as you can always add more later as cards show themselves to be good in other formats to give you a better idea.
Here are my final Innistrad changes - The only ones I am skeptical on are the Geist (No one has been playing Swans anyways), and Reckless Waif - but hey! That's what testing is for.
Any thoughts would be appreciated - I am really glad to break up the painland cycle in order to get Horizon Canopy in there in addition to the U/X M12/Inn duals
This allows me to get the Encampment back in, replace the never played Rorix, and get a more splashable X-spell back in the cube over the underwhelming Beacon.
My next goal is to track down a Sewer Nemesis to replace my Faceless Butcher!
I am now updating my cube blog much more regularly so expect some big things. On there I will be doing First Pack, First Picks weekly but I thought I would post the same pack on here to get more experienced cuber input into the first FOUR picks from each pack (Similar to... well how everyone else does it) with #1 being your first pick, then #2 being what your pick would be if your #1 was not in the pack and so on. Without further ado here is the pack:
Let me know how you would rank your first four picks. For me because I am a big fan of the Boros archetype I know I could get something to wheel so I would probably go:
Awesome update! After reading through this, it was hard to find changes I didn't like. Agony Warp into Recoil is good; I recently did the same thing. Awesome P3K cards and Mana Drain - those will be fun for you guys.
Only changes I'm not a fan of are the lands; I think Dust Bowl should probably get a slot somewhere, but I don't think it's a higher pick than Tec Edge, and the Edge goes in more decks. I didn't have much success with Ancient Tomb. It has been in and out twice now. Dread Statuary is amazing in my Cube, but hey if it's not working out, that's cool. In multi my Cube has had some good success with Snakeform which I feel is probably better than Spitting Image and Selkie. I would recommend trying it if you haven't.
Very good update overall. I like looking at the other 720+ lists on this forum. I recently posted mine - check it out if you'd like.
I like everything of here except for the Pledge/Outpost change. While Pledge is a little awkward at five mana, it's most certainly had moments where it shined, while Outpost was so clunky when I've had it in my cube or played it in other cubes. I see myself as only giving a token theme greater support in the future due to how much Wizards seems intent on pushing it, and Pledge makes excellent use of Anthem effects or other spells which benefit from having a massive number of creatures on the battlefield.
Similar to white, I like everything here except for one change, Consideration turning into Alchemy. Alchemy seems like a perfectly fine card for cube, but for the most part it's an overpriced Impulse with Flashback that can occasionally have overlap in assisting reanimator or other graveyard strategies. Consideration on the other hand is just a fantastic raw card-advantage spell that has been highly adopted by players I game with. It, along with Fact or Fiction and Deep Analysis are the type of card drawing spells that really allow blue decks to dig while also gaining card advantage AND card quality.
Everything here is awesome, though I'm not really a huge fan of Thrashing Wumpas. Given a choice I'd recommend one of the Edict creatures instead, Predatory Nightstalker or Wei Assassins. While not as high of picks as they were a few years ago, they still see consistent play and are well respected around here.
These red changes on the other hand, are a bit different from the direction I would have gone given a choice, but may work out for you and your playgroup. I'm one of those who is quite opposed to Words of War, as I gave it a fair shot and it was quite disappointing. In theory it's awesome, but in application is failed to impress. Instigator Gang will be leaving my cube with Dark Ascension to make way for Hellrider, who seems much better and more consistent. Instigator Gang, while a fine card, just happens to be located in a place on the curve where competition is extremely fierce and therefore only the truly best cards can see play...even in larger cubes like ours. I'm also not sold on Goblin Settlers, but if your cube enjoys the land destruction theme then by all means go for it.
This update seems quite awesome as well. All the cards being cut are not very exciting anymore, while most of the cards you're making room for have proven to be quite good. Moldgraf Monstrosity, Creeping Mold, and Naturalize weren't regarded very highly by people I play with when they were in my cube, but your group may have different experiences with them. I have a feeling at least one or two of those cards will end up being good cuts for the awesome green cards we're getting from Dark Ascension...
While my cube group had far more success with Burning-Tree Shaman then Stormbind, I can understand if your group has different experiences. Other than that, the changes here look like all upgrades.
We found Epochrasite to generally be better than Perilous Myr (though aggro may be getting so good in my cube now that it warrants including both). Like you, I also recently decided to do the Chaos Orb inclusion (I assume yours is also using the "errata"). It's been a pretty big hit as was to be expected. Sigil is certainly unexciting, but I like having a certain threshold of equipment to make Stoneforge reasonably consistent, and the equipment has definitely had moments where it's been an all-star. Crucible is very hard to make effective use out of at this cube size where only a percentage of the fetches will make an appearance in a draft. If you do Rotisserie drafts with this cube a heavy amount the card goes up in value significantly, but if not I recommend finding something else if you are intent to remove Sigil.
I like all four of these lands, though if given the choice I like the two you are removing more than the two your are adding. It might be that my group has a giant preference for lands (I am likely going up to 760 cards with 115 lands with my Dark Ascension update if the enemy land cycle is all as awesome as the BW land), but 75 lands is a little low for a 720 cube. Lands are just so sweet for letting you "play" more cards that you drafted while making your deck function more smooth in the process. I guess if you can take away one thing from this post it's that I recommend finding space for a few more lands.
Anyways, this update overall was fantastic and I look forward to seeing how this cube changes with this upcoming set as it looks fantastic for larger cubes like ours.
I would play Ice Storm before Goblin Settler if you want the extra LD. Getting a 1/1 body for an extra mana just doesn't seem good enough compared to the other LD at that cost.
I would play Ice Storm before Goblin Settler if you want the extra LD. Getting a 1/1 body for an extra mana just doesn't seem good enough compared to the other LD at that cost.
One-shot LD is just such a bad effect in green though... Except for cards like Acid-moss which do what you want to be doing in green at the same time as you're destroying a land. I personally wouldn't play Settler, but I wouldn't play Ice Storm either.
I would say it's probably one of the most valuable additions to green. Stuff like Bramblecrush, Creeping Mold and Beast Within aren't just used to color-screw or straight-up mana-screw unlucky opponents, but also take care of genuinely powerful lands, which is worth the one-shot nature. Aside from that, the 3CC point is a much better spot for land destruction spells than 4CC, especially when there's already a glut there.
The other benefit I see that Settlers has over Ice Storm is that as a creature, it can be blinked. So if you do enable that archetype, then it might be the better choice.
Glad to see you might be trying Snakeform! I think I like the new 5cc token generator more than Conquerer's Pledge. I also don't know if I would cut Celestial Crusader, as he's a pretty great pick if you want tokens to be a deck, and it seems like he will be getting a lot better with this set. That said, you are only adding one more token generator, so I don't know.
Currently no, because cards like Mind Twist/Sol Ring/LoA will each only show up every 2-3 drafts we haven't really had a problem with it
My Tribal Cube
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GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Thanks. Its not a problem with power level, just pure cost (If I could pick up power pieces for $100 each then I would have a powered cube instead :D)
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Whipcorder --> Stormfront Pegasus
Crusade --> Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Tidings --> Morphling
Sunder --> Spell Pierce
Withered Wretch --> Dark Confidant
Might of Oaks --> Primeval Titan
Dryad Sophisticate --> Woodfall Primus
Unmake --> Gerrard's Verdict
Spitemare --> Duergar Hedge-Mage
Creakwood Liege --> Glissa, the Traitor
Stuffy Doll --> Spellskite
Thopter Assembly --> Mox Diamond
Puppet Strings --> Mana Crypt
Darksteel Axe --> Grim Monolith
Sword of Vengeance --> Chrome Mox
And here are my potential Innistrad changes:
Kor Firewalker --> Cloistered Youth
Legacy's Allure --> Snapcaster Mage
Fathom Seer --> Mindshrieker
Phyrexian Plaguelord --> Bloodgift Demon
Persecute --> Liliana of the Veil
Fleshbag Marauder--> Diregraf Ghoul
Red Sun's Zenith --> Devil's Play
Dragonmaster Outcast --> Stromkirk Noble
Roar of the Wurm --> Bramblecrush
Moldervine Cloak --> Garruk Relentless
Something else I have been mulling around is potentially cutting some of the IA/Apo painlands to put in some M12/Enemy duels. Ideally I have the U/x lands be M12/INN duels while GW being Horizon Canopy, and finally have WB, WR, BR, BG, RG being the painlands.
As always I appreciate any and all feedback!
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Kor Firewalker --> Cloistered Youth
Legacy's Allure --> Snapcaster Mage
Fathom Seer --> Mindshrieker
Phyrexian Plaguelord --> Bloodgift Demon
Persecute --> Liliana of the Veil
Fleshbag Marauder--> Diregraf Ghoul
Red Sun's Zenith --> Devil's Play
Dragonmaster Outcast --> Stromkirk Noble
Ghitu Encampement --> Reckless Waif
Volcanic Fallout --> Brimstone Volley
Roar of the Wurm --> Bramblecrush
Moldervine Cloak --> Garruk Relentless
Wrecking Ball --> Olivia Voldaren
Swans of Bryn Argoll --> Geist of Saint Traft
Shivan Reef --> Sulfur Falls
Yavimaya Coast --> Hinterland Harbor
Additionally these are some other changes I have made:
Buried Alive --> Sinkhole
Spitting Image --> Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Adarkar Wastes --> Glacial Fortress
Underground River --> Drowned Catacomb
Brushland --> Horizon Canopy
Any thoughts would be appreciated - I am really glad to break up the painland cycle in order to get Horizon Canopy in there in addition to the U/X M12/Inn duals
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
Everything else looks pretty good.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
[CARD]
Beacon of Destruction[/CARD] --> Red Sun's Zenith
Seal of Fire --> Ghitu Encampment
Rorix Bladewing --> Hellkite Charger
This allows me to get the Encampment back in, replace the never played Rorix, and get a more splashable X-spell back in the cube over the underwhelming Beacon.
My next goal is to track down a Sewer Nemesis to replace my Faceless Butcher!
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I am now updating my cube blog much more regularly so expect some big things. On there I will be doing First Pack, First Picks weekly but I thought I would post the same pack on here to get more experienced cuber input into the first FOUR picks from each pack (Similar to... well how everyone else does it) with #1 being your first pick, then #2 being what your pick would be if your #1 was not in the pack and so on. Without further ado here is the pack:
Let me know how you would rank your first four picks. For me because I am a big fan of the Boros archetype I know I could get something to wheel so I would probably go:
1. Grim Lavamancer
2. Figure of Destiny
3. Ball Lightning
4. Sorin Markov
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
2. Grim Lavamancer
3. Venser, Shaper Savant
4. Mana Leak
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Figure of Destiny
Grim Lavamancer
Venser
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
2. Figure of Destiny
3. Winter Orb
4. Grim Lavamancer
With a nod to Profane Command.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I recently won Nova Scotia Provincials so if you're interested have a glance at my tournament report on TCGPlayer!
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
Out --> In
WWhiteW
Return to Dust --> Revoke Existence
Sunlance --> Fiend Hunter
Pristine Angel --> Mistral Charger
Spectral Lynx --> Leonin Relic-Warder
Arrest --> Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Conqueror’s Pledge --> Kjeldoran Outpost
Wall of Reverence --> Ravages of War
UBlueU
Conundrum Sphinx --> Pestermite
Time Warp --> Coralhelm Commander
Dissipate --> Mana Drain
Hinder --> Desertion
Mind Control --> Time Spiral
Relic of Progenitus --> Lu Xun, Scholar General
Careful Consideration --> Forbidden Alchemy
BBlackB
Skeletal Vampire --> Thrashing Wumpus
Dread Return --> Bloodline Keeper
Mesmeric Fiend --> Vampire Interloper
Pilgrim’s Eye --> Booster Tutor
Faceless Butcher --> Sewer Nemesis
RRedR
Tin Street Hooligan --> Keldon Vandals
Arc-Slogger --> Goblin Settler (We just enjoy LD way too much)
Slith Firewalker --> Instigator Gang
Genju of the Spires --> Words of War
Stigma Lasher --> Goblin Wardriver
Dead // Gone --> Chaos Warp
GGreenG
Spectral Force --> Naturalize
Awakening Zone --> Creeping Mold
Restock --> Pelakka Wurm
Iwamori of the Open Fist --> Oracle of Mul Daya
Mitotic Slime --> Moldgraf Monstrosity
Defense of the Heart --> Brutalizer Exarch
Werebear --> Mayor of Avabruck
Briarhorn --> Worldly Tutor
Elephant Guide --> Wall of Roots
Hystrodon --> Scavenging Ooze
WUBRGMultiWUBRG
Cold-Eyed Selkie --> Spitting Image
Agony Warp --> Recoil
Burning-Tree Shaman --> Kessig Wolf Run
Oversoul of Dusk --> Knight of the Reliquary
Firemane Angel --> Goblin Trenches
XColorlessX
Eldrazi Monument --> Perilous Myr
Sigil of Distinction --> Crucible of Worlds
Epochrasite --> Chaos Orb
TLandT
Dread Statuary --> Ancient Tomb
Tectonic Edge --> Dust Bowl
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
Only changes I'm not a fan of are the lands; I think Dust Bowl should probably get a slot somewhere, but I don't think it's a higher pick than Tec Edge, and the Edge goes in more decks. I didn't have much success with Ancient Tomb. It has been in and out twice now. Dread Statuary is amazing in my Cube, but hey if it's not working out, that's cool. In multi my Cube has had some good success with Snakeform which I feel is probably better than Spitting Image and Selkie. I would recommend trying it if you haven't.
Very good update overall. I like looking at the other 720+ lists on this forum. I recently posted mine - check it out if you'd like.
I like everything of here except for the Pledge/Outpost change. While Pledge is a little awkward at five mana, it's most certainly had moments where it shined, while Outpost was so clunky when I've had it in my cube or played it in other cubes. I see myself as only giving a token theme greater support in the future due to how much Wizards seems intent on pushing it, and Pledge makes excellent use of Anthem effects or other spells which benefit from having a massive number of creatures on the battlefield.
Similar to white, I like everything here except for one change, Consideration turning into Alchemy. Alchemy seems like a perfectly fine card for cube, but for the most part it's an overpriced Impulse with Flashback that can occasionally have overlap in assisting reanimator or other graveyard strategies. Consideration on the other hand is just a fantastic raw card-advantage spell that has been highly adopted by players I game with. It, along with Fact or Fiction and Deep Analysis are the type of card drawing spells that really allow blue decks to dig while also gaining card advantage AND card quality.
Everything here is awesome, though I'm not really a huge fan of Thrashing Wumpas. Given a choice I'd recommend one of the Edict creatures instead, Predatory Nightstalker or Wei Assassins. While not as high of picks as they were a few years ago, they still see consistent play and are well respected around here.
These red changes on the other hand, are a bit different from the direction I would have gone given a choice, but may work out for you and your playgroup. I'm one of those who is quite opposed to Words of War, as I gave it a fair shot and it was quite disappointing. In theory it's awesome, but in application is failed to impress. Instigator Gang will be leaving my cube with Dark Ascension to make way for Hellrider, who seems much better and more consistent. Instigator Gang, while a fine card, just happens to be located in a place on the curve where competition is extremely fierce and therefore only the truly best cards can see play...even in larger cubes like ours. I'm also not sold on Goblin Settlers, but if your cube enjoys the land destruction theme then by all means go for it.
This update seems quite awesome as well. All the cards being cut are not very exciting anymore, while most of the cards you're making room for have proven to be quite good. Moldgraf Monstrosity, Creeping Mold, and Naturalize weren't regarded very highly by people I play with when they were in my cube, but your group may have different experiences with them. I have a feeling at least one or two of those cards will end up being good cuts for the awesome green cards we're getting from Dark Ascension...
While my cube group had far more success with Burning-Tree Shaman then Stormbind, I can understand if your group has different experiences. Other than that, the changes here look like all upgrades.
We found Epochrasite to generally be better than Perilous Myr (though aggro may be getting so good in my cube now that it warrants including both). Like you, I also recently decided to do the Chaos Orb inclusion (I assume yours is also using the "errata"). It's been a pretty big hit as was to be expected. Sigil is certainly unexciting, but I like having a certain threshold of equipment to make Stoneforge reasonably consistent, and the equipment has definitely had moments where it's been an all-star. Crucible is very hard to make effective use out of at this cube size where only a percentage of the fetches will make an appearance in a draft. If you do Rotisserie drafts with this cube a heavy amount the card goes up in value significantly, but if not I recommend finding something else if you are intent to remove Sigil.
I like all four of these lands, though if given the choice I like the two you are removing more than the two your are adding. It might be that my group has a giant preference for lands (I am likely going up to 760 cards with 115 lands with my Dark Ascension update if the enemy land cycle is all as awesome as the BW land), but 75 lands is a little low for a 720 cube. Lands are just so sweet for letting you "play" more cards that you drafted while making your deck function more smooth in the process. I guess if you can take away one thing from this post it's that I recommend finding space for a few more lands.
Anyways, this update overall was fantastic and I look forward to seeing how this cube changes with this upcoming set as it looks fantastic for larger cubes like ours.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
One-shot LD is just such a bad effect in green though... Except for cards like Acid-moss which do what you want to be doing in green at the same time as you're destroying a land. I personally wouldn't play Settler, but I wouldn't play Ice Storm either.
The other benefit I see that Settlers has over Ice Storm is that as a creature, it can be blinked. So if you do enable that archetype, then it might be the better choice.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
[CARD]
Celestial Crusader[/CARD] --> [CARD]Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
[/CARD]
Vendetta --> Gravecrawler
[CARD]
Browbeat[/CARD] --> Faithless Looting
Instigator Gang --> Hellrider
Gaea's Revenge --> Strangleroot Geist
Scute Mob --> Wolfbitten Captive
Kodama of the North Tree --> Vorapede
[CARD]
Kessig Wolf Run[/CARD] --> Huntmaster of the Fells
Angel of Despair --> Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Blazing Specter --> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Other Changes Being Considered:
Marshal's Anthem --> Conquerer's Pledge
Pestermite --> Faerie Conclave
Draining Whelk --> Careful Consideration
Words of War --> [CARD]Viashino Slaughtermaster
[/CARD]
Spitting Image --> Snakeform
Grand Coliseum --> Tectonic Edge
My Tribal Cube
EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG