I've been busy for a while. I sold all of my cards (except my cubes and decks) and spent some of what I made on de-proxy-ing the cube (so expect pics soon).
Barbarian RIng is a much better card than Miren.
Sunlance seems like a good trade for Condemn. I might do that also.
Sudden Spoiling seems bad, so decree is a good pick.
Viridian Shamn are teh better card newb.
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That's the remarkable thing about life. It's never so bad that it can't get worse
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agree with eidolon and pringlesman, the ring is better than the well.
sunlance --> condemn is fine but i like harm's way better than both, and i like all three of these better than orim's chant. and i like land tax better than all cards previously mentioned in this paragraph.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Juggernaut is a great tool for aggro and midrange decks. I've found Platinum Angel to be far too pricey to be so vulnerable. Her 4/4 body is not worth the price tag at all, even if her ability is a bit over the top. She's ok at best and far from Juggernaut, IMO.
Deft Duelist ---> Venser, the Sojourner
I don't actually like Venser that much, but with seven slots available he easily makes the cut. Deft Duelist is nice for an aggro deck, but really how many UW aggro decks do you see in your cube? Even WW/u doesn't happen that often. Venser will fill a role that UW sometimes wants. I found that Deft Duelist fills a role that UW simply doesn't need.
Loxodon Gatekeeper ---> Elspeth Tirel
Creatures coming into play tapped isn't that much of a set back unless they have haste. Artifacts coming into play tapped only affects maybe half of your current artifact base, and that's including the Signets. The biggest thing this guy has going is the lands coming into play tapped, but really how much is that needed? And I would think that his 2/3 body makes him very vulnerable and easily dealt with. Elspeth would be a complete upgrade here, IMO.
Phyrexian Totem ---> Chimeric Mass
There's no need to remove something as solid as Chimeric Idol while you're still running something like Phyrexian Totem. I tried the Totem and Negator himself for a bit, and I found the Negator set back to be way too harsh in this format.
To make room for Wurmcoil Engine you could take out any of Wayfarer's Bauble, Damping Matrix, Puppet Strings, Eldrazi Monument, Relic of Progenitus, or Brittle Effigy.
I don't think Liege of the Tangle is good enough. If you want another green fatty I think Terastodon would be a better choice, which I would include over Silvos or Pelakka Wurm.
These are just my preliminary thoughts (mainly to document the cards I want in more than anything)
I think I am going to follow your advice on everything except Loxodon Gatekeeper. I'm still not ready to give him up. In practice, he's always been a major influence. I'll have to find something else to give up for Elspeth, or just not include her at all. One day I'll come up with a perfectly convincing argument for him (about how he's a great removal distraction)... or realize he sucks. Anyway, that day is not today.
...and I'm probably not going to change the green fatty section at all, I just love the idea of Liege of the Tangle. I can't believe you don't like Silvos, Rogue Elemental! He's the perfect fatty!
Although Relic of Progenitus is 1st on the chopping block, I'm iffy about cutting it because it's the last of the graveyard hate.
But the other side of me thinks of how I don't think I've ever seen that card played in my cube. At All.
I think I am going to follow your advice on everything except Loxodon Gatekeeper. I'm still not ready to give him up. In practice, he's always been a major influence. I'll have to find something else to give up for Elspeth, or just not include her at all. One day I'll come up with a perfectly convincing argument for him (about how he's a great removal distraction)... or realize he sucks. Anyway, that day is not today.
If you don't want to get rid of the elephant just yet, then you could make room for Elspeth by cutting Captain of the Watch, World Queller, Archon of Justice, Feudkillers Verdict, Marshal's Anthem, or Ghostly Prison. If I were to pick one from this list I'd probably go with the Feudkiller's Verdict, but Elspeth would be an upgrade to any of them, IMO.
...and I'm probably not going to change the green fatty section at all, I just love the idea of Liege of the Tangle. I can't believe you don't like Silvos, Rogue Elemental! He's the perfect fatty!
I like Silvos just fine, I just think that Terastodon is better and serves a niche role in green.
Although Relic of Progenitus is 1st on the chopping block, I'm iffy about cutting it because it's the last of the graveyard hate.
But the other side of me thinks of how I don't think I've ever seen that card played in my cube. At All.
If cards aren't seeing play, they shouldn't be taking up slots.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
...and I'm probably not going to change the green fatty section at all, I just love the idea of Liege of the Tangle. I can't believe you don't like Silvos, Rogue Elemental! He's the perfect fatty!
Silvos, Rogue Elemental has a ton of power, trample, and can swing without fear of dying because of regen.
Also, he only costs 6, instead of 8...
I love Woodfall Primus and I think Terastodon is fine, but they both cost 8. I don't like the fact that Terastodon can be chump blocked turn after turn, but it is cool that he gets results immediately.
I love Woodfall Primus and I think Terastodon is fine, but they both cost 8. I don't like the fact that Terastodon can be chump blocked turn after turn, but it is cool that he gets results immediately.
FWIW, I would rate Terastadon higher than Primus by a significant margin; Big Elephant is less G intensive, deals with up to 3 things, does it right away, and also provides you with the option to turn your own stuff into elephants too, for up to 18 power for 8 mana (compared to 6 power for 8 mana from primus).
FWIW, I would rate Terastadon higher than Primus by a significant margin; Big Elephant is less G intensive, deals with up to 3 things, does it right away, and also provides you with the option to turn your own stuff into elephants too, for up to 18 power for 8 mana (compared to 6 power for 8 mana from primus).
While I rate the Wrath-resistance and trample on the Primus more highly. I think they are very close; I just prefer Primus more.
I think they both really beat out Silvos by a large margin.
i like primus more but terastodon is also amazing. blocking a 9/9 and three 3/3s is pretty difficult. that many bodies is like evasion in itself. silvos barely passes the terminate test (well, technically he fails but you know what i mean, his regen prevents some removal). i overvalued silvos in the past but the two noncreature permanent killers are way ahead of him.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I like Primus the most. Followed by Terastodon. And then Baloths. ...and finally Silvos.
Primus' 4-for-1 card advantage is unprecedented in green. It's wrath resistance and trample are both key. That gives it the edge over Jumbo, IMO. But they're both good.
Also, Pelakka Wurm has been surprisingly good. I could see maybe cutting it for Terastodon someday, but he's been fun for now.
Thoughts? All the other kill spells I am running have a nice little niche... snuff out is free, consuming vapors kills twice and gets you life, slaughter lets you get it back, and sudden death is split second.
I looked over my list and these were the 1st 2 cards that I saw that I don't think would be missed horribly.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I can't remember a game where I've seen anyone even play him. I consulted one of my friends and he said that he played him once, only to have him be too B heavy.
Anyway Slaughter is the worst of the mentioned cards, since you have to pay an additional 3BBB and 4 life to get +1 card advantage out of your Terror.
By this logic, with Capsize, you have to pay an additional 5UU to get +1 card advantage out of your Boomerang. Yet Capsize is a staple for cubes.
Why?
I believe it's much more than can be summed up with the phrase 'card advantage'... because with these cards, you get the same spell and the same effect. You are able to pretty much lockdown the board, pending shroud or black creatures.
I'm quite comfortable paying an additional B for a multiple-use kill spell instead of a Dark Banishing.
By this logic, with Capsize, you have to pay an additional [mana]5UU[mana] to get +1 card advantage out of your Boomerang. Yet Capsize is a staple for cubes.
Why?
I believe it's much more than can be summed up with the phrase 'card advantage'... because with these cards, you get the same spell and the same effect. You are able to pretty much lockdown the board, pending shroud or black creatures.
I'm quite comfortable paying an additional [m]B[/m] for a multiple-use kill spell instead of a Dark Banishing.
Except the repeatable life-loss. And Capsize can deal with any permanent, not just nonblack creatures.
Just because a card provides card advantage doesn't mean it's good.
I want to keep Bog Down because I like having the discard archetype in my cube, and I don't think the 1cc Discards + Hymn + Stupor are enough.
There are better options than Bog Down if you're looking for black discard spells. I'd use the specters, cards like Gerrard's Verdict, and even Mind Shatter first.
Except the repeatable life-loss. And Capsize can deal with any permanent, not just nonblack creatures.
Just because a card provides card advantage doesn't mean it's good.
There are better options than Bog Down if you're looking for black discard spells. I'd use the specters, cards like Gerrard's Verdict, and even Mind Shatter first.
I'm sold on slaughter because it has the ability to be up to 4 Dark Banishing's in a single card. But who knows? Maybe I'll realize it sucks after I play with it more.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Nice updates man, they all look great.
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Update!
9-10-10
I was remembering what my thought process was when I was 1st making the cube... "(A) is better than (B). I will run (A) and not (B)." With that in mind...
Exchanges (4):
Barbarian Ring ---> Miren, the Moaning Well
Sunlance ---> Condemn
Sudden Spoiling ---> Decree of Pain
Viridian Shaman ---> Uktabi Orangutan (I like old face cards better)
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Sunlance seems like a good trade for Condemn. I might do that also.
Sudden Spoiling seems bad, so decree is a good pick.
Viridian Shamn are teh better card newb.
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sunlance --> condemn is fine but i like harm's way better than both, and i like all three of these better than orim's chant. and i like land tax better than all cards previously mentioned in this paragraph.
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Karn, Silver Golem ---> Molten-Tail Masticore
Platinum Angel ---> Steel Hellkite
Trusty Machete ---> Livewire lash
Hissing Iguanar ---> Koth of the Hammer
Feudkiller's Verdict ---> Elspeth Tirel
Relic of Progenitus ---> Wurmcoil Engine
Phyrexian Plaguelord or Silent Specter ---> Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon or Geth, Lord of the Vault
Phyrexian Totem ---> Chimeric Mass
Gatekeeper of Malakir ---> Skinrender
Spellbound Dragon ---> Gelectrode
Archon of Justice ---> Mistral Charger
Emeria Angel ---> Lone Missionary
Rootwater Thief ---> Memory Lapse
Woodfall Primus ---> Terastodon
Momentous Fall ---> Pouncing Jaguar
Shambling Remains ---> Slave of Bolas
Cuts (15) (all foils):
Deft Duelist
Deny Reality
Wrecking Ball
Boggart Ram-Gang
Behemoth Sledge
Death Grasp
Jilt
Spitemare
Temporal Spring
Canker Abomination
Esper Charm
Jund Charm
Broodmate Dragon
Bant Charm
Slave of Bolas (Moved to Rakdos section)
Adds (10):
Doom Blade (Happy, QQ?!) =)
+ 1 more card for each color (to be decided when I get time)
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And would do this instead:
Platinum Angel ---> Steel Hellkite
Juggernaut is a great tool for aggro and midrange decks. I've found Platinum Angel to be far too pricey to be so vulnerable. Her 4/4 body is not worth the price tag at all, even if her ability is a bit over the top. She's ok at best and far from Juggernaut, IMO.
Deft Duelist ---> Venser, the Sojourner
I don't actually like Venser that much, but with seven slots available he easily makes the cut. Deft Duelist is nice for an aggro deck, but really how many UW aggro decks do you see in your cube? Even WW/u doesn't happen that often. Venser will fill a role that UW sometimes wants. I found that Deft Duelist fills a role that UW simply doesn't need.
Loxodon Gatekeeper ---> Elspeth Tirel
Creatures coming into play tapped isn't that much of a set back unless they have haste. Artifacts coming into play tapped only affects maybe half of your current artifact base, and that's including the Signets. The biggest thing this guy has going is the lands coming into play tapped, but really how much is that needed? And I would think that his 2/3 body makes him very vulnerable and easily dealt with. Elspeth would be a complete upgrade here, IMO.
Phyrexian Totem ---> Chimeric Mass
There's no need to remove something as solid as Chimeric Idol while you're still running something like Phyrexian Totem. I tried the Totem and Negator himself for a bit, and I found the Negator set back to be way too harsh in this format.
To make room for Wurmcoil Engine you could take out any of Wayfarer's Bauble, Damping Matrix, Puppet Strings, Eldrazi Monument, Relic of Progenitus, or Brittle Effigy.
I don't think Liege of the Tangle is good enough. If you want another green fatty I think Terastodon would be a better choice, which I would include over Silvos or Pelakka Wurm.
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These are just my preliminary thoughts (mainly to document the cards I want in more than anything)
I think I am going to follow your advice on everything except Loxodon Gatekeeper. I'm still not ready to give him up. In practice, he's always been a major influence. I'll have to find something else to give up for Elspeth, or just not include her at all. One day I'll come up with a perfectly convincing argument for him (about how he's a great removal distraction)... or realize he sucks. Anyway, that day is not today.
...and I'm probably not going to change the green fatty section at all, I just love the idea of Liege of the Tangle. I can't believe you don't like Silvos, Rogue Elemental! He's the perfect fatty!
Although Relic of Progenitus is 1st on the chopping block, I'm iffy about cutting it because it's the last of the graveyard hate.
But the other side of me thinks of how I don't think I've ever seen that card played in my cube. At All.
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If you don't want to get rid of the elephant just yet, then you could make room for Elspeth by cutting Captain of the Watch, World Queller, Archon of Justice, Feudkillers Verdict, Marshal's Anthem, or Ghostly Prison. If I were to pick one from this list I'd probably go with the Feudkiller's Verdict, but Elspeth would be an upgrade to any of them, IMO.
I like Silvos just fine, I just think that Terastodon is better and serves a niche role in green.
If cards aren't seeing play, they shouldn't be taking up slots.
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No, he's not. Woodfall Primus is the perfect green fatty. Terastodon is a really close second. I'd run those two and Rampaging Baloths before Silvos.
I agree with Calibretto completely.
Cheers,
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Silvos, Rogue Elemental has a ton of power, trample, and can swing without fear of dying because of regen.
Also, he only costs 6, instead of 8...
I love Woodfall Primus and I think Terastodon is fine, but they both cost 8. I don't like the fact that Terastodon can be chump blocked turn after turn, but it is cool that he gets results immediately.
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FWIW, I would rate Terastadon higher than Primus by a significant margin; Big Elephant is less G intensive, deals with up to 3 things, does it right away, and also provides you with the option to turn your own stuff into elephants too, for up to 18 power for 8 mana (compared to 6 power for 8 mana from primus).
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While I rate the Wrath-resistance and trample on the Primus more highly. I think they are very close; I just prefer Primus more.
I think they both really beat out Silvos by a large margin.
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Silvos might never leave. The fact that he's 8 power for 6 mana (able to get out by turn 3 with as little as a Grim Monolith is worth it for me.
I think Silvos is in a different league because he's in a different mana bracket.
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Primus' 4-for-1 card advantage is unprecedented in green. It's wrath resistance and trample are both key. That gives it the edge over Jumbo, IMO. But they're both good.
Also, Pelakka Wurm has been surprisingly good. I could see maybe cutting it for Terastodon someday, but he's been fun for now.
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Thoughts? All the other kill spells I am running have a nice little niche... snuff out is free, consuming vapors kills twice and gets you life, slaughter lets you get it back, and sudden death is split second.
I looked over my list and these were the 1st 2 cards that I saw that I don't think would be missed horribly.
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I can't remember a game where I've seen anyone even play him. I consulted one of my friends and he said that he played him once, only to have him be too B heavy.
I want to keep Bog Down because I like having the discard archetype in my cube, and I don't think the 1cc Discards + Hymn + Stupor are enough.
By this logic, with Capsize, you have to pay an additional 5UU to get +1 card advantage out of your Boomerang. Yet Capsize is a staple for cubes.
Why?
I believe it's much more than can be summed up with the phrase 'card advantage'... because with these cards, you get the same spell and the same effect. You are able to pretty much lockdown the board, pending shroud or black creatures.
I'm quite comfortable paying an additional B for a multiple-use kill spell instead of a Dark Banishing.
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Except the repeatable life-loss. And Capsize can deal with any permanent, not just nonblack creatures.
Just because a card provides card advantage doesn't mean it's good.
There are better options than Bog Down if you're looking for black discard spells. I'd use the specters, cards like Gerrard's Verdict, and even Mind Shatter first.
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I'm sold on slaughter because it has the ability to be up to 4 Dark Banishing's in a single card. But who knows? Maybe I'll realize it sucks after I play with it more.
As for Bog Down, I'd need a mono black replacement like Wrench Mind...
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Deft Duelist
Agony Warp or Deny Reality
Wrecking Ball
Boggart Ram-Gang
Behemoth Sledge
Death Grasp or Debtor's Knell or Mortify
Dominus of Fealty or Spellbound Dragon or Jilt
Spitemare
Lorescale Coatl or Temporal Spring
Canker Abomination or Drain the Well
A little help with the choices? =)
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