MTG Salvation

I don't have any experience with cubes containing moxen, so I'm curious: how useful is green's mana acceleration when fast mana artifacts are available? Also, how useful has Dark Ritual been in this environment?

Also, I just recently added Life/Death to my cube, but we've only had one draft since then and it hasn't seen play. Has it performed well in both BG and mono-coloured decks?

Quote from Blind Piper

I don't have any experience with cubes containing moxen, so I'm curious: how useful is green's mana acceleration when fast mana artifacts are available? Also, how useful has Dark Ritual been in this environment?

Also, I just recently added Life/Death to my cube, but we've only had one draft since then and it hasn't seen play. Has it performed well in both BG and mono-coloured decks?

Dark Ritual has been consistently amazing. Fueling a big early Mind Twist, forcing out Ob Nixilis, the Fallen or Grave Titan two turns earlier than normal. It's card disadvantage, sure, but the upside is so tremendous that I can't really imagine not running it at any level. It's often not what you want to see as a top deck late game, but neither is Sol Ring.

Green's mana dorks are still useful for the color, even in an environment with moxen. Green's competitive advantage is the ability to escalate mana far more quickly than other colors, and I find that I'm almost never disappointed to play a mana elf on turns 1-3. They also allow a turn 3 Natural Order fairly consistently, which is pretty great for whoever casts it. I like them so much, and feel they're so important to green's identity, that I'm considering adding Avacyn's Pilgrim just for some extra redundancy.

As far as Life // Death, I think it borders on being a pet card. I don't doubt that Putrefy is a better card, objectively. But it's nice to have another reanimator spell (you'll notice I have a couple more enablers for that strategy than the average 360 cube), and the Life half has some cute synergies (Tamiyo's -2, Garruk 1.0's -4) that it's worth keeping around.

Quote from eidolon232

Here is some data about the unusual choices in your list:

Awesome, thanks so much for that. Some of the unusual cards listed are AVR cards, which I'm sure will become more accepted over time, but it's helpful to know what I'm missing relative to the hive mind. A lot fewer than I was expecting, frankly.

I think you're one of the few people running Devastation Tide. I know you said it has pulled its weight, but how is it seeing play? Do you typically hardcast it? Do you find that it is generally favorable to cast it on the miracle turn?

Quote from Power Conduit

I think you're one of the few people running Devastation Tide. I know you said it has pulled its weight, but how is it seeing play? Do you typically hardcast it? Do you find that it is generally favorable to cast it on the miracle turn?

With respect to the frequency of casting the card on the miracle turn, I've found that for the most part the cards are good enough to play even when being hardcast. That said, I've jammed the cube with all of the playable library manipulation spells I could, including one possibly suboptimal card in Condescend to ensure miracles go off more frequently. For the most part, they do.

As far as the miracle on Devastation Tide specifically, because it's reasonably easy to hard cast, it requires the most thought as to whether or not you want to activate the miracle. I wish I could give a more concrete answer to your question, but it's really a very strong, "Well, it depends."

Obviously it sees play primarily in blue control decks, as you can hard cast it if you wish against any deck that's pulled ahead of you to save your skin. Of course the blue control deck will most likely have a fair amount of library manipulation, so as to more or less guarantee the miracle activation when you need it. It's especially disgusting because you can very easily cast it during the opponent's end step with a timely Sensei's Divining Top activation or Brainstorm, then jump way ahead on the board during your own turn.

We've found that a worse Upheaval is still pretty darned good.

I don't doubt that Devastation Tide has its windows of value. But it's not Upheaval in any way. Upheaval is good because it bounces lands. Period. They can't rebuild, and you already did. Tide doesn't do this key component, and it just can't serve in the same function. Additionally, what makes these kinds of symmetrical effects worth using is the ability to make them asymmetrical. And with Upheaval/Jokulhaups kinds of cards, it's all about timing out the spell and/or floating mana before hand and recasting stuff on an open board. You can't do this with the Tide either, because it A) doesn't disrupt the mana bases and B) is Miracled in a phase where you can't cast other permanents.

I think it's more akin to Evacuation, which I actually prefer for several reasons. First, the effect is far more powerful at instant speed. Second, it doesn't hit all of my noncreature permanents... so I can build up a base of artifacts, enchamtments, 'walkers, etc and then nuke my opponent's creature base at the end of their turn. Without the ability to do that, the Tide is even harder to make asymmetrical.

So it's not a card you can truly abuse, it's just the reset button half of better spells that can otherwise be broken.

Quote from wtwlf123

I don't doubt that Devastation Tide has its windows of value. But it's not Upheaval in any way. Upheaval is good because it bounces lands. Period.

Totally agree. The cards serve different functions, even if they look superficially similar. The reason I compared the two of them so off-handedly was because that was the way most of the MtG punditry described Tide when it was first spoiled. My mistake; thanks for calling me on it.

Quote from wtwlf123

I think it's more akin to Evacuation, which I actually prefer for several reasons. First, the effect is far more powerful at instant speed.

Because of its color, Tide can be played at instant speed fairly consistently, and at 40% of the cost. This happens reasonably frequently, and I think it's something you've been neglecting to consider when evaluating the miracle mechanic.

Quote from wtwlf123

Second, it doesn't hit all of my noncreature permanents... so I can build up a base of artifacts, enchamtments, 'walkers, etc and then nuke my opponent's creature base at the end of their turn. Without the ability to do that, the Tide is even harder to make asymmetrical. So it's not a card you can truly abuse, it's just the reset button half of better spells that can otherwise be broken.

I think this is a bit of a strawman. You're right, you can't create a dedicated Tide.dec the same way you can build, say, a Wildfire.dec. But there are plenty of times when I would gladly bounce my own walkers/enchantments/artifacts (especially the moxen) to get my opponents' junk off the board, too. In other words, I think the reset button half of better spells is still cube-worthy, particularly for such a cheap cost in a color that is often on its back foot against a strong aggro deck.

In any event, I don't think it's a slam-dunk 360 staple, but I'm almost never sorry to draw into it or even have it in my hand. As I said in the opening post, I want to have a miracle card in each color to create a little bit of a mystery as to what I'm drawing into, and as far as I can tell it's the best blue miracle card they printed. Maybe in a couple of weeks I'll see the light and switch to Vanishment or something, or just drop the blue and green miracles altogether. Consider it under the microscope.

Okay folks, after playing the cube pretty extensively this weekend, I'm considering quite a few changes, and I would really appreciate your feedback on them. I'm trying to re-orient the cube to be focused a little bit less on midrange and control.

Out --> In

Willbender --> Daze
Devastation Tide --> Psionic Blast
Capsize --> Into the Roil
Preordain --> Standstill

First thing you'll notice is that the morph creatures and mediocre miracles are out. Both Devastation Tide and Revenge of the Hunted could be incredible, but they very seldom fit snugly in decks that used them. The morph creatures are going out not because they weren't good (they are), but more for aesthetic reasons--I think the mechanic is a little too goofy, and often difficult for new players to deal with. They'll probably be back, but for now they remain in the on-deck binder.

It's kind of en vogue to remove Capsize, and I can see why. Blue doesn't need another 6 CMC finisher, and Roil fits into the Blue tempo subtheme (while remaining great in the more traditional blue decks) I would like to encourage a little bit more. The same logic applies to Psi Blast and Daze, both extremely versatile blue cards.

Standstill has long been one of my favorite cards. It's great in U/x tempo, or after dropping an Upheaval. This will probably end up being a pet card that I'll remove after a few weeks, but I'm curious about the experiences others have had with it.

Exalted Angel --> Knight of Meadowgrain

Another casualty of the de-morphing. Originally I was going to add Kor Sanctifiers, but I'm not sure white needs any more enchantment/artifact removal. I consider Seal of Cleansing to be superior to the Sanctifiers, as it also goes in pretty much every white deck, whereas Sanctifiers isn't really at home in white aggro. Knight is effective both in and against aggro, and allows control the lifegain that Angel provided previously.

Revenge of the Hunted --> Troll Ascetic
Nantuko Vigilante --> Skinshifter
Garruk Relentless --> Pouncing Jaguar

Troll Ascetic is too good not to run, and silly me for not figuring that out earlier. Skinshifter is a decent-ish aggro card that can fit into a more midrange green deck in a pinch. Pouncing Jaguar is the best non-Rootwalla green 1-drop that I can run, since I don't really want to use a Portal card like Jungle Lion. Garruk 3.0 is clunky, and none of us really like playing with him.

Blistering Firecat --> Firestorm
Devil's Play --> Smash to Smithereens
Chandra Nalaar --> Zealous Conscripts

Firestorm allows red to have another effective discard outlet, a necessity in my cube, since I push reanimator a little bit harder than other 360 lists. It can also be used to ravage the aggro player's board, even if it is a heavy investment.

I'm not sure a 360 cube needs 3 X spells, and Devil's Play is the worst of the 3 I run currently. Chandra has consistently underwhelmed. Am I missing something with her?

Bane of the Living --> Nether Void
Doom Blade --> Putrid Imp
Nezumi Graverobber --> Exhume

Nether Void is a killer aggro topper. Black has no shortage of targeted removal, and needed another discard outlet. Graverobber we've found to be too fragile/cute to actually go off even more than half the time (and more or less impossible if you drop it any turn after 5 or so). Exhume is pretty much never dead, even if the drawback is worse than the creature.

Trygon Predator --> Edric, Spymaster of Trest

With the aggro push in both blue and green, Edric seems like an obvious include. I think the predator is probably the 3rd or 4th best simic card, but it's the worst fit in my cube, so out it goes.

Thoughts, hive mind?

I think all of those morphs are good enough on their own to be played at 360, and I wouldn't think of cutting them.

Additionally, the cuts of Capsize, Preordain, Garruk Relentless, Chandra Nalaar, Nezumi Graverobber and Trygon Predator I'd probably reverse or find other cuts. So overall, I'm not really a fan of the update at all, other than cutting Devastation Tide and Revenge of the Hunted.

I think all of those swaps are good or fine, except the biggest red flag to me is the Garruk cut. By "clunky" do you mean the transform mechanic, or the way it plays out in the cube? There's basically no card that makes me want to play green more than Garruk 3.The card I'd probably miss second-most is Doom Blade, but that's on a very per-group basis.

Quote from Power Conduit

There's basically no card that makes me want to play green more than Garruk 3.

I know that's the overarching feeling on these boards. Can you explain it a little bit more to me? We've always seen as it as extremely underwhelming. It's green removal, sure, but you can't use it without moxen until turn 3, and you're only going to be able to get a 1 or 2 toughness creature out of the deal if you want to keep him around. Is the flipside that exciting? I don't think a 1/1 deathtouch is great shakes. The tutor is awesome, admittedly, but the ultimate is milquetoast. Basically it seems like it's too much effort to make it flip, and not enough reward. It just screams "durdle" to me. I respect the hell out of you and wtwlf both to know that I'm probably missing something here, but I'm not seeing it.

Quote from wtwlf123

I think all of those morphs are good enough on their own to be played at 360, and I wouldn't think of cutting them.

That's cool. Like I said, they're on time-out, not death row.

Quote from wtwlf123

Additionally, the cuts of Capsize, Preordain, Garruk Relentless, Chandra Nalaar, Nezumi Graverobber and Trygon Predator I'd probably reverse or find other cuts. So overall, I'm not really a fan of the update at all, other than cutting Devastation Tide and Revenge of the Hunted.

Well gee, thanks for the constructive criticism. In any event, I find some of your objections confusing, as you removed Capsize from your 360 list before your expansion to 450, and in the Edric SCD you basically said that the Simic section was a pick'em between the big 4. You also had Preordain out of your 360 list for a very long time, deciding (rightly, imo) that it wasn't as good as Ponder.

Why do you think Graverobber is better than Exhume? Because it can carry equipment? The drawback of Exhume is too great?

Why do you think Graverobber is better than Exhume? Because it can carry equipment? The drawback of Exhume is too great?

Because it's a nice anti-graveyard card that doubles as reanimation support that's on a reasonably costed creature that can be played in pretty much every black archetype.

Unless you're "all in" with black reanimation support and dedicated reanimator is a big part of black's identity, Exhume isn't close to as good as the creature.

In any event, I find some of your objections confusing, as you removed Capsize from your 360 list before your expansion to 450, and in the Edric SCD you basically said that the Simic section was a pick'em between the big 4. You also had Preordain out of your 360 list for a very long time, deciding (rightly, imo) that it wasn't as good as Ponder.

I didn't play Capsize in the end, but I'd play it over any of the blue cards you're adding in. Same goes for Preordain.

Trygon Predator wouldn't be my exclusion of choice from 360 in the Simic section.

I think the Wolf-making ability is not to be overlooked. Let me try to give a few reasons why G3 is good.

First, it's one of the few cards cards in green which can provide card or creature advantage no matter what the board state is - i.e. regardless of what is in your graveyard or on your opponent's board. The other cards which do so are Wall of Blossoms, the other two Garruks, Acidic Slime, Vorapede. If I play any of those cards I KNOW the opponent will almost certainly have to expend more resources than I did to get rid of it. It's not a fantastic test, but it's indicative. Garruk 3 has the best casting cost out of all of these besides the Wall, easily, costing only a single green mana and 3 colorless. Also note that its Wolf-Making ability is better than Garruk 1's - it keeps G3 at 3 counters after the first turn vs. G1's 2 counters, and G3 can make an infinite number of wolves without pausing, unlike G1.

Another point I want to make is that I almost never expect to keep Garruk 3 alive. 70% of the time, I will use the ability to kill a guy. Now my opponent has to find a way to kill it while they are down a creature. If they can't kill it the turn it flips, then they will almost certainly have to use one of their removal spells in order to get through to kill it. But the proof of Garruk's worth is not his ability to stay alive - it's his ability to demand that your opponent spend excessive resources in order to get rid of him. It's obviously useful against aggro in this way, but it might be even better against control. The splashable cost allows you to get him in earlier than the other four-drops. Garruk 3 is the easiest to cast out of every single four drop you run! Once he's on the board, what is control going to do to get rid of him? He can snap virtually all of their fliers (when untransformed of course). Are they going to Upheaval?

Finally, it is the only creature removal spell in green worth running at 360. True, color niche isn't always good enough. But the nice thing about Garruk of course is that he is removal which can double as a creature generator when you don't need removal. How much is that sort of flexibility worth to you? It means that you can play him out on curve virtually any time you want unless the board is highly highly unfavorable to you, but since you're often ramping up in green the board state is almost always going to be favorable to you to drop him in the early game.

Quote from Power Conduit

A lot of really convincing things.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

Quote from eidolon232

Preordain is a good amount better than both Brainstorm and Ponder unless you are able to use a shuffle effect before you draw your next card.

Is it, though? The ability to dig 50% deeper into your 40 card deck is nothing to sneeze at.

Quote from eidolon232

Sure, BR reanimator likes using Firestorm, but "regular" red decks can't get too much value out of the card. I would rather use it's black equivalent Sickening Dreams, since that way red doesn't lose a card for an effect that it doesn't want.

My thinking on Firestorm was that it provides red with another needed discard outlet (beyond Faithless Looting and Wheel of Fortune), as well as functioning reasonably in a non-reanimator deck.

Quote from eidolon232

Chandra Nalaar can kill basically any creature, comes with very high toughness and is not hard to ultimate. I don't see why it should get removed at all.

Yeah, you're probably right. My thinking was that the +2 doesn't really affect the board state as much as it should, and the -X often just leads to poor Chandra making a hasty exit to the graveyard, which basically makes it a 5cc Terminate. And with Bonfire of the Damned, the ultimate isn't as unique and exciting as it once was. But the versatility is really important, so it'll stay in.

Quote from eidolon232

The consensus seems to be that the loner cards are bad, Soulbond is pretty strong + there is a good token support as well. Still everybody seems to be convinced about the power of the edict effects. I would rather cut Diabolic Edict than Doom Blade.

I think that's actually a really interesting way of thinking about this. There are only 4 hexproof/shroud guys in the cube (Morphling, Simic Sky Swallower, Geist of St. Traft, and Thrun, the Last Troll). I think you're on to something here.

Quote from eidolon232

Re: Exhume This doesn't make too much sense to me.

What I was trying to say is that in the mid-late game, when Nezumi doesn't really stand a chance of flipping due to filled graveyards, Exhume will almost always net you a better creature than a 2/1 for 2. Of course, it will also give your opponent something good as well. In any event, wtwlf convinced me that Nezumi is a better fit for the cube, as it both enables and combats regeneration shenanigans.

Quote from eidolon232

Trygon Predator is the best and most commonly used Simic card.Even if you want to fit the Spymaster in, the Predator should not be the cut.

What should?

Quote from eidolon232

How does red profit from having something that it can discard cards to?

When you put it that way, I guess it's pretty myopic to assume that every non-white color needs a good discard outlet. I think you just saved me 10 bucks. Thanks

Quote from eidolon232

Chandra Nalaar can kill up to 3 small creatures or one dragon / angel which are cards that red has a very hard time getting off the table and still survives to make your opponent spend resources to kill her or stays in play as a pinger.

Once your opponent gets a 4+ mana creature in the yard, Exhume becomes a lot less valuable. Sure your guy might be bigger, but your opponent was able to impact the board with other creatures earlier instead of trying to find all the pieces and get the fatty into your graveyard.

Yeah, Nezumi and Chandra both remain, and Exhume is on the outside looking in.

Quote from eidolon232

With Hornet Queen in your green section, SSS seems like a replaceable card, since it is great against spot removal, can kill anything in combat, can't be blocked effectively and also gives you 6 power of flying creatures for 7.

I think I'm one of the few people on this board that consider Natural Order cubable, or at least powerful and fun enough to warrant inclusion as long as you have at least 3 principal targets for it. If I removed SSS, that leaves only two: Hornet Queen and Woodfall Primus. We all feel the effect is powerful enough to justify removing two of the fringe-y green cards to include it and Hornet Queen, but I'm not sure it's justifiable without SSS. Do you think it would be? Keep in mind that removing Natural Order, for now, is not an option for our playgroup.

In any event, if I don't find a way to squeeze in Edric, I may just take out Green aggro altogether. I'm only running 6 cards in the archetype:

• Kird Ape
  
• Loam Lion
  
• Rancor
  
• Strangleroot Geist
  
• Wild Dogs
  
• Wild Nacatl
  

I was hoping the inclusion of Edric, along with Pouncing Jaguar and Skinshifter, would help prop up the archetype, which struggles even as a secondary option in any aggro deck. Of course, Edric would also require an uptick in Blue tempo cards (which I described in my proposed update), and THAT would justify my keeping Geist of Saint Traft in the cube. Geist is a card that almost never sees play simply because Blue is so control-oriented.

If you really want to help tempo, I think Kira & Coralhelm Commander are far more important than Psi Blast, Daze, or probably even Into the Roil. Also, I'm no expert on green aggro, but I'd think you'd need far more green 1-drops than that to make it viable. Commit or go home I think is the board consensus on the green aggro experience. Wolfbitten Captive, Jungle Lion, Twinblade Slasher, maybe Pouncing Jaguar are probably needed to make it work.

Changes:

Out -> In

Green Aggro

Revenge of the Hunted -> Wolfbitten Captive
Genesis -> Twinblade Slasher
Nantuko Vigilante -> Pouncing Jaguar
River Boa -> Skinshifter

Genesis is the creature I'm least excited to ramp into; it's versatile and crushes in the control/midrange mirror, but I think it's the narrowest of the green 5-drops I run. I don't think I'll miss it.

River Boa hasn't overwhelmed or underwhelmed in its stay, it's just...whelmed. Like Skinshifter, it can go in green aggro or play a defensive position. But I want to try out Skinshifter and see if its 4 power plays better in aggro decks.

Simic Sky Swallower -> Edric, Spymaster of Trest

Something had to make room for Edric, and SSS is the least interesting of the 4 Simic cards. If I find that Natural Order needs another target to make it run smoother, I probably won't add this back in, but instead find a way for Pelakka Wurm.

Colorless Aggro

Lodestone Golem -> Ankh of Mishra
Scroll Rack -> Black Vise

Lodestone Golem was the worst of the aggro 4-drops. Scroll Rack isn't as good when you're not running the full miracle set. Besides, multicolor control decks need more checks and balances. Consider Ankh the check and Vise the balance.

Black Aggro

Bane of the Living -> Nether Void

Nether Void is boss.

Red

Blistering Firecat -> Reckless Charge
Earthquake -> Goblin Patrol

Slayers' Stronghold made me, like wtwlf, realize how great Charge is. I think it might even be a 360 staple. I don't need 3 Red XCC spells, and Earthquake is the most fungible. Goblin Patrol is boring, but gives red another 2-power 1-drop.

White

Exalted Angel -> Knight of Meadowgrain

Blue Tempo-ish

Devastation Tide -> Cryptic Command
Capsize -> Aether Adept
Condescend -> Daze
Willbender -> Dungeon Geists

These are changes I'm going to test for a few weeks. I want another free counterspell, Cryptic Command does double duty, and two extra value creatures are great for any blue deck.

Thanks, cube forum, for all your insight. You're the best!

Not a fan of cutting Genesis. I think it's one of green's best cards. It's a sweet card advantage engine that comes attached to a nice creature. I like Nantuko Vigilante quite a bit. It's nice to have extra answers to artifacts and enchantments, and you never need more than 3 mana or a single green mana with that guy. And I like River Boa more than the Skinshifter. I don't have to put mana into the Boa to have it be a reasonable attacker, and it has evasion in half the matchups. Regeneration is pretty sweet too. I'd keep Genesis and the Boa, and go without the Slasher or Skinshifter.

If you have to bring in Edric at 360, the SSS is an okay cut. But I personally prefer it, especially if you're running Natural Order.

I could see cutting Scroll Rack at 360, so the colorless changes look fine. I didn't run any of those 4 cards in my 360 list though.

I love Bane of the Living. 4-power beaters and sweepers built into the same card are totally boss.

Blistering Firecat is such a beating. 7 damage out of nowhere is completely awesome. He's such a threat, and a major contributor in red aggro decks; he brings you into reach range better than almost any other red card in my list. And Earthquake is a wonderful spell. Sweepers that double as reach are pretty epic, and there's decks that can make it totally asymmetrical.

I think Exalted Angel is still one of the best white creatures in the cube. I wouldn't cut it for another 2-drop.

Blue looks okay, I like Willbender more than Aether Adept though; the 'bender has been the clutch card in so many situations, almost always 3-for-1 card advantage. Pretty good for never even needing to reach 4 mana, and only requiring a single blue.

Quote from wtwlf123

Not a fan of cutting Genesis.

Neither am I, frankly, but like you and everyone else have said, if you want green aggro to be viable, you need to really push it. Here are the 4+ CC creatures that I run:

• Phantom Centaur
  
• Thrun, the Last Troll
  
• Vengevine
  
• Acidic Slime
  
• Deranged Hermit
  
• Indrik Stomphowler
  
• Vorapede
  
• Hornet Queen
  
• Woodfall Primus

I'm more excited to ramp into each one of those creatures than I am to ramp into Genesis. I understand that Genesis is objectively a better card than Pouncing Jaguar, but it's the most cuttable of the others, except maaaaaaaybe Phantom Centaur.

Quote from wtwlf123

Lots of convincing stuff about morph creatures.

Obviously your cube list is what I modeled mine on, and the more I think about it the more I think you're on target w/r/t the morphs. I think I'm going to do this:

Knight of Meadowgrain -> Exalted Angel
Bribery -> Willbender
Diabolic Edict -> Bane of the Living
Keldon Vandals -> [CARD]Blistering Firecat
[/CARD]
Either Phantom Centaur or Viridian Shaman -> Nantuko Vigilante

Meadowgrain and Edict are easy cuts. Bribery isn't, but it's the weakest of blue's creature-theft spells, and I don't think the color needs to devote 10% of its space to that effect. Because of its echo costs, Vandals doesn't live to see as many turns as a more versatile artifact-removal creature like Hearth Kami. Vigilante can attack enchantments, Shaman can't, and Shaman is getting the axe because Uktabi Orangutan always makes me laugh when I look at it. Because I run Seal of Primordium, I'm less worried about losing an artifact removal card in the color than I otherwise would be (I'm running only 1 fewer than you were in your 360 list).

Quote from wtwlf123

I like River Boa more than the Skinshifter. I don't have to put mana into the Boa to have it be a reasonable attacker, and it has evasion in half the matchups. Regeneration is pretty sweet too. I'd keep Genesis and the Boa, and go without the Slasher or Skinshifter.

In a vaccum I like Boa more than Skinshifter, too (especially because I loved to play 10-land stompy way back when). But I think that Skinshifter will prove to be slightly better in green aggro, as well as being an excellent blocker for a minimal investment in midrange/control. In any event I'm going to keep a very close eye on this.

Quote from wtwlf123

If you have to bring in Edric at 360, the SSS is an okay cut. But I personally prefer it, especially if you're running Natural Order.

I think if I need to add another target for Natural Order, I'll end up squeezing in Pelakka Wurm, since at least you can hard cast it in a Rock or GW deck.

Quote from wtwlf123

And Earthquake is a wonderful spell. Sweepers that double as reach are pretty epic, and there's decks that can make it totally asymmetrical.

I know, I know! But don't you think 3 red XCC spells is overkill? How would you rank Devil's Play, Earthquake, and Bonfire of the Damned?

Phantom Centaur is probably the most cuttable creature from that list. He's really good at what he does, but in the end he's kinda just a beater.

I love the 5 "core" morph creatures, and I'll probably continue to run them forever unless we get better ones in a set that revisits the mechanic. I'm not a fan of most of the cuts you're leaning towards to bring them back in, but I like those more than excluding the morph creatures altogether.

If you're blocking, you can regenerate your Boa against non-trample creatures, and still kill off their attackers. If you're attacking, you don't have to sink mana into it to at least swing for two. That's clutch. Imagine Nantuko Shade as a 1/1. The reason it's good is because even if you only "bluff" the pump, he's still a 2-drop that bashes for two. And the Boa's straight unblockable in 40%+ of your games. And it can regenerate against removal that allows it (there's a lot more now than there used to be). I played the Skinshifter long enough to learn he's no river boa.

Ya, you can always "add in" the Wurm to green if you feel short on targets, but if the Genesis cut showed you anything, it's that green is a hell of a lot tighter than it looks. Simic can live without Edric for the sake of supporting Natural Order and Ramp with another fatty. Powerful narrow cards are right at home in the multicolor section. And he's got evasion, trample and shroud.

I rank the X sweepers higher than the Blaze variants. I'd say: Rolling Earthquake > Earthquake > Bonfire/Devil's Play (Bonfire is still in test mode for me; I'm not convinced it's a staple yet, but if it proves good in practice, I'll keep it as my 3rd X spell and leave the Play out).

I think most of your changes are pretty good. I agree with wtwlf about red sweepers being better than blaze, but I disagree strongly about the necessity of morphs. I'm pretty close to cutting them all from my cube. Viridian Shaman especially is far far better than the Vigilante in my opinion, unless you're biased against functional reprints. The cut I feel strongest about is Condescend. I think it's better than Arcane Denial, Miscalculation, Memory Lapse, and Remand.

Quote from wtwlf123

If the Genesis cut showed you anything, it's that green is a hell of a lot tighter than it looks.

Don't I know it. I think green might actually be the tightest section in the cube. I would never have guessed that when I first started constructing it.

And with that, here are the final (for now) changes, reflected in the cube contents list. Thanks to everybody.

Out -> In

Devastation Tide -> Cryptic Command
Capsize -> Aether Adept
Condescend -> Daze
Bribery -> Dungeon Geists
Diabolic Edict -> Nether Void
Hearth Kami -> Reckless Charge
Devil's Play -> Goblin Patrol
Revenge of the Hunted -> Wolfbitten Captive
Genesis -> Twinblade Slasher
Viridian Shaman -> Pouncing Jaguar
River Boa -> Skinshifter
Simic Sky Swallower -> Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Lodestone Golem -> Ankh of Mishra
Scroll Rack -> [CARD]Black Vise
[/CARD]

So I've been putzing around gatherer lately. Why don't people run Vendetta or Ashes to Ashes? The downside can be brutal, but if you're pushing black aggro they seem pretty solid. Am I crazy for considering them?

Vendetta would be good in a color without access to good removal. Black has no such problem. And with Dismember out now, this card is dead to me.

Ashes to Ashes can be a blowout. Or it can also be the reason you lose. There were too many times that I got run-over by not having two targets that we cut it long ago. I almost prefer Slaughter at this point in time because I can use it to kill just 1 guy if I need to, and the life drawback is optional. But black's removal suite is too good for that spell either.