Actually the main reason was that I found out about Treacherous Vampire and 4 toughness is much better than 3. Dying to every burn spell is awkward. The drawback was rarely relevant in terms of turn clock.
I don't have any specific design restrictions like that but I try my best to play cards that are black bordered and modern card framed. I only run 8 cards that don't fit that restriction. Besides that I don't run infect, morph, will of the council, or transform. Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are just boring cards in a draft context. They are very binary and they feel like speedbumps not answers. I had the prison for a while and hated it. Vivid lands, City of Brass, Gemstone Mine and Mirrodin's Core are not played because they make splashing "free" and make mana bases less challenging. I want people to have to work to build a 3+ color deck, and not just during deckbuilding but also during draft. The cube is designed for team drafts and 8 mans so the drafting portion is usually pretty aggressive. Soltari Trooper is good and he's a soldier, I'm willing to try him but probably not over an Air-Horse One like Mistral Charger. Shadow bugs me as an ability because it's so binary that it takes away a lot of choices in game. Errant Ephemeron is good. I cut it for stuff I thought might be more interesting but I'm looking at putting it back in one day along with Durkwood Baloth. Infiltrator il-Kor and Tandem Lookout weren't great for me, they're staying cut. Jetting Glasskite is interesting. It keeps coming in and out. Consider it sideboarded for now. Fact or Fiction is probably coming in over Foresee soon but it's actually a pretty slow card I find. Hypnotic Specter is fine, he's in my "sideboard". His effect isn't all that important to the environment though. I chose to run Terror and Doom Blade over Snuff Out. Demonic Tutor isn't coming in any time soon. The garruk vs lilianna ones are too expensive for me to consider and the card isn't even that great in a draft context. Jackal Pup is a bad card outside of the context of cube aggro (it would frequently go undrafted in a regular format like, for example, ORI-ORI-ORI) which is the reason I don't play it. The red 3/2's for 1R are both super boring although still solid. Fire Imp is just not an effect I really need but I ran Blisterstick Shaman in its place for a while. Burst Lightning and Chain Lightning are both burn spells I consider less interesting than what I have in right now instead. It's also worth noting that there are usually 2-3 red players per draft so Chain Lightning isn't always Lightning Bolt. Reckless Charge is powerful but it doesn't feel like a draft card. It's not "overpowered", I just don't think it's a healthy effect to have. Pro-color on the other hand is most definitely overpowered and I try my best to not run any of it. Same reason as Leelue, the free wins thing ticks me off. This is kind of cheesy but the reason I don't run Fire Covenant is really how ugly old gold cards look (although red black aggro isn't supported for me either which is a factor). I sound like a whiner when I say that Selesnya is too tight for Trostani's Summoner. I need to see more matches of Selesnya vs Control but if control is dominating I will cut Armadillo Cloak for it. I ran Jilt for a long time and it might go in if Goblin Electromancer or Desperate Ravings underperfom (I don't have much in the way of results for those two cards). I might test Isochron Scepter again but I think it can be oppressive in my cube. It's not "banned" or anything though. Maze of Ithis banned. I would cube an uncommon Mystifying Mazeso hard though.
- You seem to have a lot of the (white) exalted creatures. How are they? It seems like a fun play style if you have multiple of them, but they look a bit underwhelming on their own or in general decks.
Exalted is amazing. Such a well designed ability. They contribute efficiently to every possible boardstate. Seriously underrated ability.
- In general, there are a lot of WW creatures. Do you notice a problem in drafting that they are hard to place into decks?
Never been a problem. There is always 2-3 white drafters so they filter to the people who are heavy enough white to play them. I think drafting is really really really important and I try to make it hard to get to 23 solid playables. I want people to make hard choices while drafting because drafting is just as important as the games to me. I want people to decide between running two WW spells that they picked up pack one or changing direction and playing Strangleroot Geist midway through pack two. I want everyone to look back at their drafting segment with regret and uncertainty. I think peasant cube can devalue draft skill sometimes just by offering upwards of 30+ completely valid options each draft. I try to keep the number closer to 20+ with small problems like multicolor cards, poor manafixing, and CC cards.
- How's War Falcon? I really want to like that guy.
He's a 2/1 flier for 1 no drawback hahaha. In all seriousness 25/44 of my white creatures are either knights or soldiers and he can still block regardless. He almost always gets in on turn two since 12/18 of my two drops are knights or soldiers.
- You seem to have an unnecessary amount of black creature removal.
Yeah I like to draw my whole deck. It's not oppressive though so I'm keeping the number as is. I love me some grindy games. Also worth noting that 1 for 1 removal spells aren't necessarily that strong compared to some of the ridiculously powerful cube creatures.
Emrakul's Hatcher is solid! He ramps hard or buys a lot of life with chump blocks. Spawn can carry equipment and other buffs. Sometimes you live the dream and cast him with Kruin Striker in play. He rarely underperforms but he's also rarely an allstar. I think Goblin Rally is much worse than Emrakul's Hatcher but I just added it and don't have any test results yet.
It's a really powerful effect and green black is the color combo that gets to 15+ mana most consistently of every color combo. I need to test Wprm Harvest in its place though.
Honestly, no. The Bant ones see a decent amount of play because they are easy to splash for, and the U/B/x ones see play occasionally. Slave of Bolas and Crystallization are easy to cast so they see tons of play. Really just Naya Charm that doesn't see much play. I already had to cut Sprouting Thrinax and Woolly Thoctar back in the day. I'm really really on the fence about playing the new Tarkir charms, seeing as they are quite powerful.
Your format seems like it's very different from what most of us runs, more.. draft-y? There are quite some cards that would be a bit underwhelming/slow in my cube, but look really fun.
Thanks! That's mostly what I'm going for. I want my cube to feel much closer to a powerful grab-bag draft than a real non-peasant cube.
I don't think 540 is that big. I mean, it's the bare minimum size for decent replayability with 8-man drafts. Yeah black decks don't really attack in my cube. They usually just durdle and *shrek voice* "GET OUTTA MAH SWAMP" all game long. That being said, most of the peasant black two drops printed basically ever are trash. Wizards can't seem to stop with drawbacks that railroad you into playing aggro.
1 Demonic Tutor isn't coming in any time soon... the card isn't even that great in a draft context.
2 I sound like a whiner when I say that Selesnya is too tight for Trostani's Summoner.
3 Exalted is amazing. Such a well designed ability.
4 Soldier subtype is classy.
5 Yeah I like to draw my whole deck.
green black is the color combo that gets to 15+ mana most consistently of every color combo.
6 most of the peasant black two drops printed basically ever are trash. Wizards can't seem to stop with drawbacks that railroad you into playing aggro.
1 Demonic tutor is ridiculous in a draft format, the same way it's ridiculous in a constructed format. Perhaps moreso, since you have less consistency even in a cube so it generates that consistency.
2 Trostani's summoner would go in my 1 card gold section. I don't understand.
3 I don't really like exalted for the cube, but it is a pretty good ability in general.
4 I see what you did there
5 This is why I say I can't fully relate.
6 Pure trash for not playing an attacking strategy, sure. But I think black twos in my cube are in the top 2 best twos.
1 Demonic tutor is ridiculous in a draft format, the same way it's ridiculous in a constructed format. Perhaps moreso, since you have less consistency even in a cube so it generates that consistency.
2 Trostani's summoner would go in my 1 card gold section. I don't understand.
3 I don't really like exalted for the cube, but it is a pretty good ability in general.
4 I see what you did there
5 This is why I say I can't fully relate.
6 Pure trash for not playing an attacking strategy, sure. But I think black twos in my cube are in the top 2 best twos.
I don't have much in the way of combo or reanimator strategies and the more controlling decks tend to take the games longer anyways. It's obviously a strong card but I don't think the effect is important for draft. Demonic Tutor is pretty expensive too ($$).
Maybe I cut Watchwolf and Call of the Conclave and run Trostani's Summoner instead. I have less reasons to not run Kalonian Tusker then, but I still prefer the two GG 2/3s over it I think.
I'm a huge fan of Exalted, but I think my cube might be a little more forgiving towards those draft power level mechanics than yours.
Yeah a lot of people don't love to durdle. I love to durdle, get value, have games swing back and forth.
Yeah the black 2s are really strong but also really binary. The two main drawbacks for black creatures are "comes into play tapped" and "lose many life" which are both awful drawbacks in defensive decks. If you know of any more secret Wight of Precinct Sixes floating around I'm badly in need of low cmc black creatures. Thrill-Kill Assassin needs to come back in I think.
Talking about Shambling Ghoul? I really want to like it, but after playing a couple Origins drafts with it I don't think it's that good in a defensive deck. It's super playable though, just not doing quite what I want. The fact that it can't block until turn 3 is a really big deal, and it doesn't save anywhere near as much life as a Child of Night or some other goblin piker often would.
I haven't tried Basilica Screecher. I'm going to look into it. The stats are so ugly, but I know extort is a really really powerful effect. Worth testing for sure.
Did a couple of two man drafts tonight. First tried the new burn4 draft style (which is absolutely awesome and very challenging), and then did a solomon draft with a 5 card split afterwards.
Here are the decks I drafted:
Sprout Swarm is still pretty strong, but Bile Blight really ruined my day. Goodbye to 12 Saprolings. The recently added Shower of Coals might be too strong.
Some more tweaks. After much deliberation regarding the Khans Charms I have decided that my cube environment doesn't really support tri color gold cards.
You've got four dragons in the cube -- 6 drops in red, black, and Rakdos, and a double-blue 4 drop. Why not use Kalonian Tusker over the weird Dragon-related GG guy?
That bit about dragons is just flavor text to me. It's actually just an upgrade from Elvish Warrior (warrior) to Human Soldier (soldier). I have some support in white for soldiers tribal.
In regards to Kalonian Tusker I have chosen to include the two GG 2/3s over it. Originally the choice was playing the 2/3s over Garruk's Companion. Creatures with less power than toughness are pretty universally a healthy thing for the format, assuming their power isn't zero. When they printed Kalonian Tusker I agonized over cutting the 2/3s for it. I still needed 2 two drops in that slot but I wasn't about to play a GG 2/3 alongside a GG 3/3. I couldn't really find anything that excited me and started thinking of just leaving the 2/3s in and completely foregoing the 3/3. The thing that made the decision a really clear one for me was looking at my multicolor cards. I run some CC 3/3s and I like having vanilla multicolors being strictly better than their monocolored counterparts.
tl;dr
I think 2/3 for 2 promotes a healthier environment than 3/3 for 2
For me Peasant Cube is about building a fun limited environment. My goal has always been to emulate actual draft format interactions, not necessarily to play the most powerful cards. 2/3s do plenty of work, but 3/3s start to invalidate 3 drops more frequently than I think is healthy.
That makes sense (we all cut Sol Ring), but... I've just never remotely considered a vanilla 3/3 to be format-warping. You play so many strong removal spells at 1-2 mana, why tone down a hard-to-cast 2 drop?
I'm not worried about him outclassing 3s -- most trade with him OR have a strong ETB trigger OR have some ongoing value via triggered or activated abilities. The fact that is eats up a Sea Gate Oracle seems like a feature, not a drawback... It's a vanilla creature with a difficult mana cost, the PT better be somewhat significant to make up for that fact.
WW gets you first strike and lifelink on a 2/2
UU... Well, no great examples aside from the Mastermind which isn't as easily compared
BB gets you and number of possibilities (Black Knight et cetera)
RR gets you battle cry (Goblin War Driver) or Shock activated ability (Ember Hauler) on a 2/2
GG... Is supposed to be +0/+1 upgrade from Grizzly Bears?
well, I would never really consider a vanilla 3/3 to be format warping either. I do play three CC 3/3s. I've just chosen to skip Kalonian Tusker for the time being (while Nissa's Chosen and Scaleguard Sentinels are still at a perfectly cubeable power level).
2/3 can block every other example you listed and attack through every example you listed, that's pretty decent. Veteran Armorsmith is insanely powerful by the way.
Also, to help understand what was happening with other people's cubes, I did a cut to 360. It's purely hypothetical. I think 540 is the optimal place to be for a cube that caters to 6 and 8 man pods, but I wanted to see what my list would look like slimmed down.
Here's the link to the cut: Monsieur-Beefy³ lite
I get bored with the card pool pretty easily, and don't really support any major themes besides soldiers. 540 is as big as I would ever go, and 360 is a small as I would ever go. It's nice to be at 540 for 6 mans because when you do a second draft afterwards you get all new cards (if you should so desire). That being said, the most important factor for me is that I want to cube with all the cards I love. I had to cut a lot of chaff when I went to 360, which sucks because I really like a lot of the chaff.
I've gotten to play with a lot of cool cards in my side project, like ethersworn shieldmage, Thrummingbird, and.......................
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Doing the 2x6x3x15 thing at 540 is cool. I like being at ~475 but could see going up to your size... variance, plus more sweet cards that are in somewhat steady use rather than sloughed off in binders of boxes.
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Most recent change, based on discussion in the Peasant Discussion thread:
Murder < Murderous Cut
Child of Night < Gurmag Angler
Deadly Wanderings < Curse of Shallow Graves
Raid Bombardment < Goblin Heelcutter
Leatherback Baloth < Reclamation Sage
Wickerbough Elder < Curse of Predation
Hunter's Insight < Restock
Foresee < Treasure Cruise
Belltower Sphinx < Whirler Rogue
Exalted is amazing. Such a well designed ability. They contribute efficiently to every possible boardstate. Seriously underrated ability.
This card was such a bomb in triple zendikar. Here a 2/2 vigilance first strike is still strong. Soldier subtype is classy.
Never been a problem. There is always 2-3 white drafters so they filter to the people who are heavy enough white to play them. I think drafting is really really really important and I try to make it hard to get to 23 solid playables. I want people to make hard choices while drafting because drafting is just as important as the games to me. I want people to decide between running two WW spells that they picked up pack one or changing direction and playing Strangleroot Geist midway through pack two. I want everyone to look back at their drafting segment with regret and uncertainty. I think peasant cube can devalue draft skill sometimes just by offering upwards of 30+ completely valid options each draft. I try to keep the number closer to 20+ with small problems like multicolor cards, poor manafixing, and CC cards.
He's a 2/1 flier for 1 no drawback hahaha. In all seriousness 25/44 of my white creatures are either knights or soldiers and he can still block regardless. He almost always gets in on turn two since 12/18 of my two drops are knights or soldiers.
Usually a 6/6 flier for 5, never dies to his first ability.
like how much are they cast for? I've personally cast Tendrils for 12, but around 3-5 is the norm.
Yeah I like to draw my whole deck. It's not oppressive though so I'm keeping the number as is. I love me some grindy games. Also worth noting that 1 for 1 removal spells aren't necessarily that strong compared to some of the ridiculously powerful cube creatures.
Emrakul's Hatcher is solid! He ramps hard or buys a lot of life with chump blocks. Spawn can carry equipment and other buffs. Sometimes you live the dream and cast him with Kruin Striker in play. He rarely underperforms but he's also rarely an allstar. I think Goblin Rally is much worse than Emrakul's Hatcher but I just added it and don't have any test results yet.
This has come up before here. Basically, it doesn't have a gold symbol on it and I want to play it so I do. heh.
It's a really powerful effect and green black is the color combo that gets to 15+ mana most consistently of every color combo. I need to test Wprm Harvest in its place though.
Honestly, no. The Bant ones see a decent amount of play because they are easy to splash for, and the U/B/x ones see play occasionally. Slave of Bolas and Crystallization are easy to cast so they see tons of play. Really just Naya Charm that doesn't see much play. I already had to cut Sprouting Thrinax and Woolly Thoctar back in the day. I'm really really on the fence about playing the new Tarkir charms, seeing as they are quite powerful.
Thanks! That's mostly what I'm going for. I want my cube to feel much closer to a powerful grab-bag draft than a real non-peasant cube.
I don't think 540 is that big. I mean, it's the bare minimum size for decent replayability with 8-man drafts. Yeah black decks don't really attack in my cube. They usually just durdle and *shrek voice* "GET OUTTA MAH SWAMP" all game long. That being said, most of the peasant black two drops printed basically ever are trash. Wizards can't seem to stop with drawbacks that railroad you into playing aggro.
1 Demonic tutor is ridiculous in a draft format, the same way it's ridiculous in a constructed format. Perhaps moreso, since you have less consistency even in a cube so it generates that consistency.
2 Trostani's summoner would go in my 1 card gold section. I don't understand.
3 I don't really like exalted for the cube, but it is a pretty good ability in general.
4 I see what you did there
5 This is why I say I can't fully relate.
6 Pure trash for not playing an attacking strategy, sure. But I think black twos in my cube are in the top 2 best twos.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I don't have much in the way of combo or reanimator strategies and the more controlling decks tend to take the games longer anyways. It's obviously a strong card but I don't think the effect is important for draft. Demonic Tutor is pretty expensive too ($$).
Maybe I cut Watchwolf and Call of the Conclave and run Trostani's Summoner instead. I have less reasons to not run Kalonian Tusker then, but I still prefer the two GG 2/3s over it I think.
I'm a huge fan of Exalted, but I think my cube might be a little more forgiving towards those draft power level mechanics than yours.
Yeah a lot of people don't love to durdle. I love to durdle, get value, have games swing back and forth.
Yeah the black 2s are really strong but also really binary. The two main drawbacks for black creatures are "comes into play tapped" and "lose many life" which are both awful drawbacks in defensive decks. If you know of any more secret Wight of Precinct Sixes floating around I'm badly in need of low cmc black creatures. Thrill-Kill Assassin needs to come back in I think.
Did you try basilica screecher?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I haven't tried Basilica Screecher. I'm going to look into it. The stats are so ugly, but I know extort is a really really powerful effect. Worth testing for sure.
Did a couple of two man drafts tonight. First tried the new burn4 draft style (which is absolutely awesome and very challenging), and then did a solomon draft with a 5 card split afterwards.
Here are the decks I drafted:
9 Swamp
8 Forest
Creatures
1 Arbor Elf
1 Typhoid Rats
1 Chronomaton
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Putrid Leech
1 Stalker Hag
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Skinrender
1 Nekrataal
1 Galvanic Juggernaut
1 Blastoderm
1 Howling Banshee
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Enslave
1 Boar Umbra
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Rancor
1 Go for the Throat
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Mind Stone
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Swamp
7 Mountain
7 Island
Creatures
1 Izzet Guildmage
1 Thought Courier
1 Augur of Bolas
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Wall of Frost
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Talrand's Invocation
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Death by Dragons
1 Vendetta
1 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
1 Lightning bolt
1 Ultimate Price
1 Dismember
1 Ribbons of Night
1 Shower of Coals
1 Cone of Flame
1 Tidings
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Confiscate
Sprout Swarm is still pretty strong, but Bile Blight really ruined my day. Goodbye to 12 Saprolings. The recently added Shower of Coals might be too strong.
Typhoid Rats, Izzet Guildmage, and Sigiled Starfish all performed above my expectations. Sigiled Starfish is probably the best looter. I was once again reminded that Strangleroot Geist is an absolute monster.
I wish Malakir Cullblade was a 1/2, I want to run that card so bad.
Death Mutation < Pharika's Mender
Assault Zeppelid < Bounding Krasis
Gerrard's Verdict < Tithe Drinker
Darklit Gargoyle < Kingpin's Pet (I'm going to miss the gargoyle)
Bane Alley Broker < Possessed Skaab
Wingcrafter < Cloudfin Raptor
Doom Blade < Thrill-Kill Assassin
Devout Chaplain < Disenchant
Assassinate < Death Stroke
Bant Charm < Pestermite
Naya Charm < Roast
Crystallization < Diregraf Ghoul
Elvish Warrior < Scaleguard Sentinels
Esper Charm < Lignify
Call of the Conclave < Soltari Champion
In regards to Kalonian Tusker I have chosen to include the two GG 2/3s over it. Originally the choice was playing the 2/3s over Garruk's Companion. Creatures with less power than toughness are pretty universally a healthy thing for the format, assuming their power isn't zero. When they printed Kalonian Tusker I agonized over cutting the 2/3s for it. I still needed 2 two drops in that slot but I wasn't about to play a GG 2/3 alongside a GG 3/3. I couldn't really find anything that excited me and started thinking of just leaving the 2/3s in and completely foregoing the 3/3. The thing that made the decision a really clear one for me was looking at my multicolor cards. I run some CC 3/3s and I like having vanilla multicolors being strictly better than their monocolored counterparts.
tl;dr
I think 2/3 for 2 promotes a healthier environment than 3/3 for 2
I'm not worried about him outclassing 3s -- most trade with him OR have a strong ETB trigger OR have some ongoing value via triggered or activated abilities. The fact that is eats up a Sea Gate Oracle seems like a feature, not a drawback... It's a vanilla creature with a difficult mana cost, the PT better be somewhat significant to make up for that fact.
WW gets you first strike and lifelink on a 2/2
UU... Well, no great examples aside from the Mastermind which isn't as easily compared
BB gets you and number of possibilities (Black Knight et cetera)
RR gets you battle cry (Goblin War Driver) or Shock activated ability (Ember Hauler) on a 2/2
GG... Is supposed to be +0/+1 upgrade from Grizzly Bears?
2/3 can block every other example you listed and attack through every example you listed, that's pretty decent. Veteran Armorsmith is insanely powerful by the way.
Tithe Drinker -> Drana's Emissary
Consume Strength -> Catacomb Sifter
Roar of the Wurm -> Plated Crusher
Gatekeeper of Malakir -> Carrier Thrall
Tideforce Elemental -> Eldrazi Skyspawner
Consume Spirit -> Malakir Familiar
Banishing Light -> Stasis Snare
Take Possession -> Dominate
Confiscate -> Persuasion
Swiftfoot Boots -> Deathless Behemoth
Pestermite -> Curse of Inertia
Ulamog's Crusher -> Breaker of Armies
Whispersilk Cloak -> Bane of Bala Ged
Khalni Garden -> Radiant Fountain
Armored Ascension -> Knightly Valor
Lignify -> Elvish Warrior
Also, to help understand what was happening with other people's cubes, I did a cut to 360. It's purely hypothetical. I think 540 is the optimal place to be for a cube that caters to 6 and 8 man pods, but I wanted to see what my list would look like slimmed down.
Here's the link to the cut: Monsieur-Beefy³ lite
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Guardian of the Gateless, Agoraphobia, Tidings, Wretched Banquet, Swallowing Plague, Deepfire Elemental, Coiling Oracle, Highspire Mantis, and more didn't survive the cut. I love those cards, and when else am I going to get the chance to play with them?
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.Dreamscape artist
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article