MTG Salvation

Quote from rantipole

I agree with eidolon's suggestions.

Cheers,
rant

Fourteen of eidolon's suggestions were already out of the cube when he posted. I can't take out cards that have already been removed. I will be home tonight after a week out of town so more updates will come then.

**Update** 5/17/12

That is mostly a fantastic update. I'd cut Phyrexian Crusader (infect is not viable in cube without drastically skewing it that way) rather than Liliana's Specter. If you absolutely need to keep the Crusader as a pet card, cut Graverobber.

I'm not a huge fan of 8.5 Tails, but he's better than the cards you are cutting. Still, I'd keep Paladin en-Vec and not add the fox.

Good changes otherwise.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

That is mostly a fantastic update. I'd cut Phyrexian Crusader (infect is not viable in cube without drastically skewing it that way) rather than Liliana's Specter. If you absolutely need to keep the Crusader as a pet card, cut Graverobber.

I'm not a huge fan of 8.5 Tails, but he's better than the cards you are cutting. Still, I'd keep Paladin en-Vec and not add the fox.

Good changes otherwise.

Cheers,
rant

I agree with you about Phyrexian Crusader not being viable infect wise for damaging players that much, but looking at double protection, first strike, dealing creature damage in the form of -1/-1 counters, plus being a Zombie seems pretty good for three mana. He is definitely on the outskirts of black and ready to be cut for better cards; I like him better than a 2/1 flyer with an etb of they choose which to lose.

The Paladin vs. the fox was another of the choices that I wasn't fond of making, however the fox immediately proved himself in draft and my paladin is in German, so people always ask what it means; I was going to cut him for Silverblade Paladin anyway so I figured I would cut him now and find something else to cut when I get Silverblade. (2 AVR BBoxes and not a single silverblade paladin)

We have drafted the cube a number of times now, and so far it has been awesome. It is, however, quite difficult to know what to pick during the first rounds!

Quote from Rathkeaux

I agree with you about Phyrexian Crusader not being viable infect wise for damaging players that much, but looking at double protection, first strike, dealing creature damage in the form of -1/-1 counters, plus being a Zombie seems pretty good for three mana. He is definitely on the outskirts of black and ready to be cut for better cards; I like him better than a 2/1 flyer with an etb of they choose which to lose.

We just have to disagree then. Specter has been pretty good for me. It's a 2/1 flyer with an ETB ability. ETB discard is pretty rare and I just don't want creatures that don't do what I need them to do in cube. If you want a defensive creature in black (not sure why), there are better than the Crusader (Deathgazer?). If you need a 3-drop zombie, I'm sure you can find better (Geralf's Messenger?). If you need to kill the opponent, almost any creature you could run will do a better job. I like black to have a critical mass of discard and evasive creatures. Specter is both. Having a choice to discard is not as good as random, but there are very few random discarders.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

We just have to disagree then. Specter has been pretty good for me. It's a 2/1 flyer with an ETB ability. ETB discard is pretty rare and I just don't want creatures that don't do what I need them to do in cube. If you want a defensive creature in black (not sure why), there are better than the Crusader (Deathgazer?). If you need a 3-drop zombie, I'm sure you can find better (Geralf's Messenger?). If you need to kill the opponent, almost any creature you could run will do a better job. I like black to have a critical mass of discard and evasive creatures. Specter is both. Having a choice to discard is not as good as random, but there are very few random discarders.

Cheers,
rant

You make some pretty convincing points, but specter dies to ping; Crusader is immune to all red burn, all white removal/control, most black removal due to being black, has first strike so he can trade evenly with a 4/4 and with any of the equipments in the cube, he's a two or three turn clock. I may look to take out another card and put lilliana's specter back in.

I like most of your cuts but I would try to keep Loxodon Warhammer and, to a lesser extent, Basilisk Collar in. Hex Parasite strikes me as a much narrower card than the 'hammer, and I see at least one card in each color that I would cut before either of these, e.g. Akroma (can't even be reanimated with Animate Dead or Necromancy), Luminarch Ascension, Lighthouse Chronologist (how often does he get to level 7?), Braingeyser (inefficient in a cube context), Corpse Dance (if you actually play it as its written, the "top card" clause can be frustrating), Phyrexian Crusader (for Rant's reasons), Markov Blademaster (BCS is very high but WCS is extremely unexciting -- basically if they have any blockers in play on turn 4 and you don't have equipment, this is terrible), Tajuru Preserver (seems really narrow).

Because these cards are lackluster, and because you seem to be pushing the artifact deck, I would cut one card from each of your mono-colored section and add five slots to your colorless section. Metalworker, for instance, wants to be in any cube that pushes the artifact deck.

Just my $0.02.

I am also a big fan of the warhammer, and collar, but I wanted to make cuts out of the sections that the card were replacing, however that was yesterday!

I was thinking of cutting one mana fixer for each color, this would leave three mana fixers, and three multicolor cards for each guild, and then cutting 2 cards from each colored section. This would net me 20 slots, 5 of which would be taken out of the cube to cut the total down to 360, the other 15 would be filled with colorless cards.

All of the cards that you mentioned are probably going to be in the two cut from each color, also I now have to make room for Murderous Redcap, which will kick Falkenrath Aristocrat out; Upheaval, which will replace Evacuation; Elspeth Tirel, which will replace ???; Predator Ooze, which will replace Tajaru Preserver; and Looter il-Kor, which will replace ???.

I'd cut Rewind or Foresee for the looter. I think Rewind is worse than Dismiss and you don't want too many four-mana counterspells. (And I'd imagine Dismiss will be cut for Cryptic Command in the final draft of your cube.) But I'd probably cut Foresee first, since it provides a similar function to the looter (filtering).

I have to forewarn you that Elspeth Tirel isn't too exciting, as planeswalkers go. She costs 5 mana, her + ability doesn't protect herself, and her ultimate isn't nearly as backbreaking as most planeswalkers'. I run her in my cube right now, but I probably wouldn't in its final form, and I run 450 cards.

A 3/3 split in the multicolor section seems reasonable.

Cheers,
m

Quote from metagame

I'd cut Rewind or Foresee for the looter. I think Rewind is worse than Dismiss and you don't want too many four-mana counterspells. (And I'd imagine Dismiss will be cut for Cryptic Command in the final draft of your cube.) But I'd probably cut Foresee first, since it provides a similar function to the looter (filtering).

I have to forewarn you that Elspeth Tirel isn't too exciting, as planeswalkers go. She costs 5 mana, her + ability doesn't protect herself, and her ultimate isn't nearly as backbreaking as most planeswalkers'. I run her in my cube right now, but I probably wouldn't in its final form, and I run 450 cards.

A 3/3 split in the multicolor section seems reasonable.

Cheers,
m

Thanks Meta, very sound advice, I will probably cut foresee for the looter, and thentake 2 from each color and thin the gold.

In 360 I personally like a 3/2 split for multicolor (3 lands, 2 multi). It makes multicolor VERY tight but every card is worth splashing for and will make the maindeck in your deck. There isn't much chaff if you go another level down, but I really enjoyed only having 2.

I am not quite ready to go down to a 3/2 split but I have gone down to 3/3 by taking one card out of each color, 10 out of the guilds, and five out of the total cube number, thus giving me ten more slots for colorless. I also went through and double checked the OP list versus the actual cube and fixed any errors.

I tried to take out the worst of each color and guild, feedback needed on whether I mde the right choices or not.
5/21/12

Hey Rath, I think I'd take out Yawgmoth's Will before the Phyrexian Arena stapled to a big evasive threat that is Bloodgift Demon. The Will is more of a constructed kind of card. In cube it seems like you need maybe seven mana in play before it becomes a great value card. Another option might be Pulse Tracker, but I would understand if you want to keep a critical mass of one-drops.

I prefer Rampaging Baloths to Terastodon because it's significantly easier to hard cast, a better reanimation target, and has trample. I'm sure others would disagree with me. I'd also cut Scute Mob (which doesn't do anything for a long time if it lands on turn 1) or Tajuru Preserver before the Baloths.

Cheers,
m

Thanks for the advice Meta, I have to recheck my green list because I know Tajaru is no longer in the cube. Yawgmoth's Will has not performed well and will probably be cut soon, scute mob is also nearing the cutting block. Terastodon will not be coming out of the cube anytime soon, he is such a powerhouse for green, I like the Baloth but he's really just a vanilla 6/6 that makes more vanilla creatures, however green does need more finishers, I am looking into getting Woodfall Primus to be one of those.

I am thinking about replacing Yawgmoth's Will and Pulse Tracker with Entomb and Exhume, the will has not proved itself yet, and black cards with six-letter E names just seemed the way to go, plus it help reanimation a little.

Also thinking of replacing Scute Mob with Arbor Elf or Avacyn Pilgrim(even though the pilgrim should be WG Guild, that guild is Stacked right now) and maybe Grarruk's Companion with Wolfir Avenger?

Any thoughts on these subs?

I like all of that (Arbor Elf over Pilgrim). If your cube was fully Powered, I'd say that Yawgmoth's Will has to stay. As it is, I'd probably still keep it, but if your group doesn't like it you should replace it. Or, you could just draft it a few times and spank them with it.

Cheers,
rant

what would you take out instead of the will Rant?

In order of preference:
1. Phyrexian Crusader (no push for infect so this card is essentially just a blocker)
2. Massacre Wurm (no need for three fatties)
3. Corpse Dance (graveyard order is a PITA)

Cheers,
rant

hmm...might have to go with Corpse Dance out of that list. Everyone says that Crusader isn't good enough, and yet he has now performed amazingly well in two drafts (and we've only had 4!) The ability to ignore white removal, red burn, and most black removal seems top notch combined with first strike and the ability to shrink whatever creatures he blocks or block him + a single rancor or equipment and he can threaten poison death by himself. He is on the chopping block, but I am not going to remove him until he stops proving his worth or I get something hands down better in that slot. The wurm was added because black gets drafted by multiple people each draft and they all could use a finisher, but he is on trial right now. Corpse Dance seems like the cut here, without jet medallions it just doesn't feel right.

I agree with Rant that Corpse Dance is a better cut, but I don't love the Will in an unpowered list, especially since 360 is so tight. The other changes sound great!

Okay I am also thinking about putting Angelic Destiny, and Silverblade Paladin into the cube, and Sunblast Angel and Elspeth Tirellook like the cuts; Abundant Growth is also looking like a fit for green. Mana-fixing without losing CA and even late in the game it isn't a dead draw.

Out---->In
Mentor of the Meek ---> Silverblade Paladin
Elspeth Tirel ---> Angelic Destiny
Scute Mob ---> Abundant Growth
Massacre Wurm ---> Consuming Vapors

Not a fan of Abundant Growth, I'd rather just run a card that ramps you like Arbor Elf. I dislike Angelic Destiny due to the drawback of being an aura and I like Elspeth Tirel so I'd just skip that swap.

I agree with Donald.

A fixing only cantrip isn't really worth the mana investment, when you could be using a card that would ramp you instead.

And the white 4cc noncreature section is too jammed with better cards to use Angelic Destiny.

I have acquired a Black Lotus and the Moxen and am wondering y'all would to take out to fit them in my cube. I also will be adding Tundra, Volcanic Island, Taiga, and Bayou, with the other three I'm missing hopefully to be acquired tomorrow. The lands will obviously replace the worst in their colors.

I will also be getting in Mire Boa, Sulfuric Vortex, and Dungeon Geists, which I am thinking about subbing in.

Bonfire of the Damned has been working great in the cube, and I am thinking of adding a Entreat the Angels, Temporal Mastery, and maybe Revenge of the Hunted into the cube so that I do not only have one Miracle, has anyone done any testing of miracles in the cube.

edit: instead I took out Bonfire, so there are no miracles, working on subbing out for the BL and Moxen and 10 duals right now(IE) as well as Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Sulfuric Vortex, Scavenging Ooze, Mire Boa, Horizon Canopy and Dungeon Geists. By the time all of this is done, M13 will be here asking for an update as well. . .