People follow the consensus and use their own flavor. Remember that that consensus is the result of years of playtesting and thousands upon thousands of cube drafts, from the largest and most respected cube community in the world.
That being said, I'm all about new ideas and cubes with special rules an so fourth that apply to them. Some people play multicolor/pauper/tribal/classic/modern/multiplayer/vanguard/planechase whatever cubes, and all that flavor is unique, refreshing, appreciated and fun. I like the fact that you stick to your design guns and have preset "rules" that apply to color identification. That's a good thing. It's not how I would design/draft MY cube, but I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. Because that's what cube drafting is all about.
However, I feel that the rejections you proposed that fell outside of your design parameters are way off base, and I disagree with your evaluations of those cards. Drafting hundreds of times out of several different cubes has led me to believe otherwise about the great majority of cards you dismissed on the previous page (not to mention all the ones tat are ignored because of your cube design laws). I think your cube is missing out on some real staples, and running quite a few sub par cards... that could both increase the tempo of the game and strengthen archetypes.
So, I don't want you to feel insulted, or feel unwelcome. And no, our cubes are not the result of idea inbreeding. There are certain cards that are inherently good for the cube, and you'll find those cards in the majority of cubes. That's all that is. It's not "groupthink" or "inbreeding" ...it's simply a common denominator shared by quality cube cards. We identify those cards together, and use the collective experience to better our individual cubes.
I enjoy the fact you've got defined color principles in your cube, and it makes it stand out from the crowd. However, I think there are some cards that still fall within your design guidelines that could make your cube better, that you've simply dismissed for reasons we all disagree with. And when an entire community of people disagrees with your card valuation... it may not be all of us that's wrong. Just something to keep in mind. Don't blindly follow our advice by any means, but asking some basic questions of us could lead to some potential inclusions of some really powerful cards.
However, I feel that the rejections you proposed that fell outside of your design parameters are way off base, and I disagree with your evaluations of those cards. Drafting hundreds of times out of several different cubes has led me to believe otherwise about the great majority of cards you dismissed on the previous page (not to mention all the ones tat are ignored because of your cube design laws). I think your cube is missing out on some real staples, and running quite a few sub par cards... that could both increase the tempo of the game and strengthen archetypes.
The rejections were no absolute judgement on the cards but the explanation why they got cut in favour for other cards. As I said, almost all of the cards mentioned were at least temporarely in my cube and many switched in/out multiple times until made my final decision. All the mentioned cards are great powerful cards but they didn't make the cut.
Please tell me what cards you think are subpar in my cube and especially why. There are hundreds of possible cards to add, but first I need to be convinced what to cut to create space for new inclusions.
Please tell me what cards you think are subpar in my cube and especially why.
Of course:
Akrasan Squire - He's not a 2/2 in a hard aggro deck for very long. Maybe one attack at best. I'd rather use a different guy that's better when attacking as a team, or a 1-drop with a better ability like Weathered Wayfarer, Goldmeadow Harrier or even Icatian Javelineers.
Sigiled Paladin - At WW, this guy doesn't live up to cube standards. I'd much rather see something like Knight of the White Orchid, or something different altogether like Elspeth, which is completely amazing and plays into the cube's themes.
Pacifism - A little too direct, and outclassed by other cards by today's standards. Temporal Isolation is an instant and stops activated abilities. And for an extra 2 mana, Faith's Fetters shuts down all permanents in the cube completely and gains you 4 life in the process.
Stoneforge Mystic - It's okay, but its pretty narrow, IMO. I would cut it for something else. Like Kor Skyfisher.
Binding Grasp - Tepensive by cube standards. Blue is a hyper-competitive color and this simply isn't good enough.
Careful Consideration - There is better draw available at this casting cost (or less)
Persuasion - WAY overpriced for cube standards.
Mind Control - See Persuasion.
Halimar Depths - There are some sick blue lands. This isn't one of 'em.
Broken Ambitions - Outclassed in a big way by better counters. It can scale, but who cares?
Fabricate - Narrow. There's much better blue artifact support.
Quicksilver Dragon - Underwhelming and overcosted in comparison to blue's infinitely better finishing cards.
Sphinx of Lost Truths - See Quicksilver Dragon.
Portent - There are better 1CC cantrips, and you hit the critical mass for those pretty quick.
Ertai, Wizard Adept - Cute, but expensive and fragile.
Callous Oppressor - Outclassed by better cards.
Trinket Mage - Narrow and lacking quality targets in this list.
Quest for the Gravelord - A cheap 5/5 maybe, but I'd rather play something that gives me a desirable effect all the time.
Order of the Ebon Hand - Outclassed by better aggro creatures.
Knight of Stromgald - See Order of the ebon hand.
Dauthi Slayer - See order of the ebon hand.
Royal Assassin - Classic, but outclassed by better removal that's not slow, conditional and fragile.
Silent Specter - Overpriced.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer - Situational, overcosted, and a horrible topdeck.
Coffin Queen - Narrow and fragile.
Visara the Dreadful - There are much better black finishers.
Vendetta - There's better cheap removal.
Sign in Blood - Outclassed by a 1B card.
Life // Death - Outclassed by better reanimation spells at the same cost.
Mutilate - Requiring swamps sucks. It's usually an infest for 4 mana.
Tattermunge Maniac - Too much early combat in the cube. You need to be able to control when your 1-toughness creatures attack.
Ashling the Pilgrim - Slow, fragile red sweeper.
Warren Instigator - Only good in mono-red goblins... too narrow.
Goblin Sharpshooter - Sometimes great, sometimes crap. Don't want him outside of the aggro mirror.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - Looks so good on paper, but never performs.
Lightning Dragon - That's way too much echo, and no haste.
Arc-Slogger - 40 card decks don't like this guy. Having a single shock on this body isn't worth the mana.
Shard Volley - Steep drawback for a sub par effect.
Pyrokinesis - Free spells are cool, but quite often I found I was pitching a more valiable spell than I was getting from the card itself.
Searing Blaze - Too situational. You need a target, you need RR, and you need to have made a land drop in the same turn, making it basically a sorcery. As instant speed burn, it's just an overcosted shower of sparks.
Elves of Deep Shadow - There's better green mana critters.
Elvish Warrior - Unimpressive.
Nissa's Chosen - See Elvish Warrior.
Omnath, Locus of Mana - I recently cut him. He's cute, but he's super expensive.
Wolfbriar Elemental - Too much top-end green. He's outclassed at pretty much ever casting cost he can be resolved at.
Weatherseed Treefolk - A fun creature from the old times, but the recursion was often irrelevant, and the GGG is a *****.
Fastbond - This is a cool card, but I found it irrelevant. It may be good in your cube where there's an utter lack of other fast mana.
Rampant Growth - Outclassed by other fetch cards. for 1 extra mana there's a bunch of spells that will both ramp and lead to card advantage.
Channel - Overpriced and narrow. If the Channel card is negated, that's a big waste of life. May be fun with an Eldrazi dude tho...
Executioner's Capsule - Overpriced and lacking compared to other black removal.
AEther Vial - Never worked like I'd hoped. I found myself simply paying for the creatures, and suffering card-disadvantage through the vial.
Trusty Machete - There is much better equipment by cube standards.
Mask of Memory - See Machete.
Coldsteel Heart - All these 6 suffer from the same thing. Underwhelming and unneeded when all 10 signets are there. The only one of these cards I like is Mind Stone, because it replaces itself when the ramp is no longer needed. The rest are super meh.
Fellwar Stone
Star Compass
Guardian Idol
Prismatic Lens
Everflowing Chalice
Lotus Vale - Risky and not very rewarding. Unless you've got multiple tripple color costs from different colors in the deck, this card sucks. Also, if you need this card because the mana is that bad, the deck sucks.
Stalking Stones - Much better man-lands available for cube.
Gargoyle Castle - See Stones.
Now in addition to those cards, there are a lot of card swaps I'd perform too (like swapping out Captain of the Watch for Yosei the Morning Star, and removing Battlegrace Angel for Reveillark) but those suggestions can all come on a different day.
Hope that's helpful. That list was actually quite a lot of work. We all just want to see people cubing with the best lists they can. It's not a competition thing, its a support thing.
not sure about that. probably temporal isolation and kor skyfisher in white. memory lapse, keiga and impulse in blue. wretched anurid, graverobber, undead gladiator and grinning demon in black. ??? in red (red realy lacks good two-drops). Masticore, juggernaut, su-chi and skull clamp (I'll give the most broken equipment a chance) are the artifacts that are coming in.
any suggestions, what two-drop could replace ashling? slith fire walker, stingscourger, goblin war marshal, goblin shortcutter?
Slith Fire Walker is probably the best from this list. He was pretty bad for us, though. He's a lot better in constructed than he is in the cube. He doesn't translate very well between the formats.
I'd have to agree with wtwlf here and go with something totally different in Dwarven Blastminer or his cousin Dwarven Miner. Both of those are better than Fire Walker, IMO.
@Don: My apologies for freaking out a bit some posts back. I know it's unwelcoming and this community, in my opinion, is typically the most inviting and helpful community for cubing, and on all of MTGS. Making it seem otherwise is a mistake. I had just never seen such odd evaluations of some of those cards. Lately this forum has been doing a lot of card ranking exercises, and I think of them as a close to set in stone almanac, which may not be the best thing.
One suggestion. You say many of the cards have been in your cube and were cut for one reason or another. I remember when I first built my cube, it was terrible, but it had some good cards in it. Well, when surrounded by a bunch of crappy cards, good cards may not function as well and get cut, but can deserve another chance. I remember a good number of cards performing underwhelmingly in the first incarnations of my cube. In the same way, cards that were once first picks began weakening and eventually leaving the cube. Some cards deserve another chance after trying to shine through some of the cube's less proud moments.
I also fully agree with wtwlf's analysis of those cards, having played with many of them myself. Like I mentioned in my ranty and appalled post from before, I sort of like the harsh mono color policy, despite my love for multi-color cards. it's interesting.
About the cubes here inbreeding, I don't believe that. I'm not going to say that there aren't 3 or 4 cards in my cube that are there because I straight up copied cards from someone's (probably usman's) list, but all in all the cards in my cube are my own choice. It just so happens that most people's cube's aim to be the most powerful they can be without restriction, which leads us to assume that that's what other's are trying to do. My restriction is NO proxies. that means that until I'm a crazy millionaire, my cube will be unpowered, and my lands are doomed to suck until my wallet is well endowed.
anyway, check out the "should I run this card thread" and the "card vs. card thread" for some stellar advice about specific changes, cuts, and inclusions.
The dwarfs violate the no LD rule of my cube. But mana curve vise I need another two drop if I take out ashling. Looks like ashling keeps it's slot until more good red two drops are printed (go go rise of eldrazi, gimme some juice two-drop).
@Fogg: I do run proxies and I suggest it also to you. If there is a card you want to test in your cube, proxie it up, test it in a game session (ok, the duals don't need it) and if it fullfilled your expectations, buy the card. Especially if you have budget restrictions this helps to prevent spending money on "bad buys" that end up in your side pile.
@eidolon: because of no LD in my cube, I don't run LoA or maze of ith, the other utility lands are not so powerfull that LD would be needed IMO
pyrokinesis out -> violent eruption in
Arc-slogger out -> thunderblust in
channel out -> survival of the fittest in
juggernaut out -> crystal shard in
Still no good replacement for ashling found :-( Something like "1R haste 3/1 whenever this is dealt damage it deals that much damage to its controller" would be a great addition.
Still no good replacement for ashling found :-( Something like "1R haste 3/1 whenever this is dealt damage it deals that much damage to its controller" would be a great addition.
Huge update, basically a new cube. Inclusion of RoE and refocusing on control hosing cards. The avg cmc of my cube was already low (2.8) but control was still stronger than aggro. Armageddon and friends were excluded in the beginning because they were rated as "unfun" in my playgroup. The same was with discard. Now every colour has dedicated anti control strategies with LD and discard coming in. Additionally, green got a boost in shrouded or recurring fatties as anti control tool.
Huge update, basically a new cube. Inclusion of RoE and refocusing on control hosing cards. The avg cmc of my cube was already low (2.8) but control was still stronger than aggro. Armageddon and friends were excluded in the beginning because they were rated as "unfun" in my playgroup. The same was with discard. Now every colour has dedicated anti control strategies with LD and discard coming in. Additionally, green got a boost in shrouded or recurring fatties as anti control tool.
Comments and criticism are welcome.
Love the changes!
The low existing ACMC plus the new disruption package should help to balance things out between aggro and control.
The cube went through a lot of changes and reached a point where I'm realy happy with it. There are a two changes where I would like to hear some opinions, because I'm still undecided.
out <> in
Smash to Smithereens <> Hellrider There are already 4 creatures with build-in artifact destruction in red, so I think the inclusion of an additional finisher for red aggro decks is an upgrade
Precursor Golem <> Sundering Titan The nine power over three bodies for 5 mana is very powerful. The weakness against removal makes it a bit a liability though. Sundering Titan on the other hand is probably much more needed as Tinker/reanimation/ramp target.
Additionally, I'm trying to find space to reinclude Wild Mongrel and Plow Under, but I don't know what to cut. Any suggestions?
The cube went through a lot of changes and reached a point where I'm realy happy with it. There are a two changes where I would like to hear some opinions, because I'm still undecided.
out <> in
Smash to Smithereens <> Hellrider There are already 4 creatures with build-in artifact destruction in red, so I think the inclusion of an additional finisher for red aggro decks is an upgrade
Precursor Golem <> Sundering Titan The nine power over three bodies for 5 mana is very powerful. The weakness against removal makes it a bit a liability though. Sundering Titan on the other hand is probably much more needed as Tinker/reanimation/ramp target.
Additionally, I'm trying to find space to reinclude Wild Mongrel and Plow Under, but I don't know what to cut. Any suggestions?
I really like Precursor Golem, it's definitely a high variance card, but when it's good it's sweet. I feel like Sundering Titan won't be hard cast that often, which makes me wary. I might think about cutting Black Vise or Scorched Ruins. Vise is pretty swingy, really hard to beat on T1 and dead later on, which is a minus for me. Scorched Ruins seems powerful, but slightly weakened in your cube due to the relative lack of 6-drops. If I can ramp 2 in one turn, I think the best jump is 4 to 6 mana. I can sac 2 lands and still make double-colored costs and most 6-drops end the game. There's just not that many in your cube. Ruins is slightly better than it would be elsewhere because there is no red land destruction, but if I was going to make a cut I would probably go with Ruins.
As for Wild Mongrel and Plow Under, the cards in your green section I'd think about cutting are (in order of worst to better):
I think both Wild Mongrel and Plow Under can help aggro, so cutting aggro cards won't weaken aggro too much overall. Mtenda Lion seems the weakest creature in your green section. Giving the opponent the choice seems weak to me, and paying U can shut off even swords and Jitte.
Skinshifter just took too much mana to really shine for me, and Wild Dogs can suck, both seem rather lackluster to me, so I would cut whichever one you feel is weakest.
Sublime Archangel led to some frustrating mid combat blow outs. Sun Titan is a card I always wanted to test, but never found space for it.
wall of omens <> Kor Sanctifiers
Kor Sanctifiers got always picked very late and was often sitting
in the SB. Disenchant effects are needed, but they need to be better than that. Wall of Omens is boring but very efficient. It replaces itself and keeps an attacker at bay.
The changes in white help to unload the overcrowded 4cc slot.
Inqusition of Kozilek misses some key cards. If it would say "four or less", it would stay. Animate Dead comes back in. Solid reanimation spell. Not much to say here.
inferno titan <> magus of the scroll
Magus of the Scroll was actually pretty good at finishing off an opponent who stabilized the board. But every removal in the cube kills him. Inferno Titan is the second best of the Titans in cube. That's enough of reason to be played.
Experiment One <-> Arbor Elf
Arbor Elf is the weakest of the green mana dorks and e1 is a welcome addition to support green aggro. The other potential cut would have been Sakura-Tribe Elder. I think the one mana dorks are more important but ste is a better card per se. I would be interested to hear some opinions on Arbor Elf VS STE.
Boros Charm <-> Slayers Stronghold
Boros Charm has so many strong options for aggressive boros decks that it is a must include. Wtwlf even scored it as #1 card from GTC in his set review. Stronghold has good lategame potential but reduces your chances to get the coloured mana you need in the beginning.
other changes:
Animate Dead <-> Pox
This swap was done earlier to give pox a test run. The card did not live up to its expectations (pox overhype on these boards?). So animate dead is back.
Deathrite Shaman <-> Fire//Ice Lingering Souls <-> Celestial Colonade
Lingering Souls is known to be a solid card. The Shaman gets a test run. Fire//Ice is a good card but nothing spectacular for the freestyle section. Colonnade was cut over the signet because they are valued extremely high in our group and artifacts and the artifact deck are pushed in this cube.
I'd never cut Reveillark, Creeping Tar Pit, or Treetop Village. Elspeth Tirel is a better white cut. I'd cut Skinshifter or Sylvan Tutor to retain Treetop Village. If you aren't counting it as a land, Tar Pit is likely the best UB card.
Seeing Reveillark go makes me sad! I think Elspeth Tirel would be my cut.
I like the rest of the upgrade though I must say I'm trying to put Creeping Tar Pit back in my cube.
Reveillark has not enough targets in a control deck and is too expensive for aggro. For us he was relegated to midrange and ETB trigger heavy decks. If he is missed he'll come back.
Creeping tar pit was not cut because of power reasons but because of restructuration of the cube. There are three land slots in my guild section and the fetch, dual, shock land trio is untouchable.
That being said, I'm all about new ideas and cubes with special rules an so fourth that apply to them. Some people play multicolor/pauper/tribal/classic/modern/multiplayer/vanguard/planechase whatever cubes, and all that flavor is unique, refreshing, appreciated and fun. I like the fact that you stick to your design guns and have preset "rules" that apply to color identification. That's a good thing. It's not how I would design/draft MY cube, but I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. Because that's what cube drafting is all about.
However, I feel that the rejections you proposed that fell outside of your design parameters are way off base, and I disagree with your evaluations of those cards. Drafting hundreds of times out of several different cubes has led me to believe otherwise about the great majority of cards you dismissed on the previous page (not to mention all the ones tat are ignored because of your cube design laws). I think your cube is missing out on some real staples, and running quite a few sub par cards... that could both increase the tempo of the game and strengthen archetypes.
So, I don't want you to feel insulted, or feel unwelcome. And no, our cubes are not the result of idea inbreeding. There are certain cards that are inherently good for the cube, and you'll find those cards in the majority of cubes. That's all that is. It's not "groupthink" or "inbreeding" ...it's simply a common denominator shared by quality cube cards. We identify those cards together, and use the collective experience to better our individual cubes.
I enjoy the fact you've got defined color principles in your cube, and it makes it stand out from the crowd. However, I think there are some cards that still fall within your design guidelines that could make your cube better, that you've simply dismissed for reasons we all disagree with. And when an entire community of people disagrees with your card valuation... it may not be all of us that's wrong. Just something to keep in mind. Don't blindly follow our advice by any means, but asking some basic questions of us could lead to some potential inclusions of some really powerful cards.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The rejections were no absolute judgement on the cards but the explanation why they got cut in favour for other cards. As I said, almost all of the cards mentioned were at least temporarely in my cube and many switched in/out multiple times until made my final decision. All the mentioned cards are great powerful cards but they didn't make the cut.
Please tell me what cards you think are subpar in my cube and especially why. There are hundreds of possible cards to add, but first I need to be convinced what to cut to create space for new inclusions.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Of course:
Akrasan Squire - He's not a 2/2 in a hard aggro deck for very long. Maybe one attack at best. I'd rather use a different guy that's better when attacking as a team, or a 1-drop with a better ability like Weathered Wayfarer, Goldmeadow Harrier or even Icatian Javelineers.
Sigiled Paladin - At WW, this guy doesn't live up to cube standards. I'd much rather see something like Knight of the White Orchid, or something different altogether like Elspeth, which is completely amazing and plays into the cube's themes.
Pacifism - A little too direct, and outclassed by other cards by today's standards. Temporal Isolation is an instant and stops activated abilities. And for an extra 2 mana, Faith's Fetters shuts down all permanents in the cube completely and gains you 4 life in the process.
Stoneforge Mystic - It's okay, but its pretty narrow, IMO. I would cut it for something else. Like Kor Skyfisher.
Binding Grasp - Tepensive by cube standards. Blue is a hyper-competitive color and this simply isn't good enough.
Careful Consideration - There is better draw available at this casting cost (or less)
Persuasion - WAY overpriced for cube standards.
Mind Control - See Persuasion.
Halimar Depths - There are some sick blue lands. This isn't one of 'em.
Broken Ambitions - Outclassed in a big way by better counters. It can scale, but who cares?
Fabricate - Narrow. There's much better blue artifact support.
Quicksilver Dragon - Underwhelming and overcosted in comparison to blue's infinitely better finishing cards.
Sphinx of Lost Truths - See Quicksilver Dragon.
Portent - There are better 1CC cantrips, and you hit the critical mass for those pretty quick.
Ertai, Wizard Adept - Cute, but expensive and fragile.
Callous Oppressor - Outclassed by better cards.
Trinket Mage - Narrow and lacking quality targets in this list.
Quest for the Gravelord - A cheap 5/5 maybe, but I'd rather play something that gives me a desirable effect all the time.
Order of the Ebon Hand - Outclassed by better aggro creatures.
Knight of Stromgald - See Order of the ebon hand.
Dauthi Slayer - See order of the ebon hand.
Royal Assassin - Classic, but outclassed by better removal that's not slow, conditional and fragile.
Silent Specter - Overpriced.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer - Situational, overcosted, and a horrible topdeck.
Coffin Queen - Narrow and fragile.
Visara the Dreadful - There are much better black finishers.
Vendetta - There's better cheap removal.
Sign in Blood - Outclassed by a 1B card.
Life // Death - Outclassed by better reanimation spells at the same cost.
Mutilate - Requiring swamps sucks. It's usually an infest for 4 mana.
Tattermunge Maniac - Too much early combat in the cube. You need to be able to control when your 1-toughness creatures attack.
Ashling the Pilgrim - Slow, fragile red sweeper.
Warren Instigator - Only good in mono-red goblins... too narrow.
Goblin Sharpshooter - Sometimes great, sometimes crap. Don't want him outside of the aggro mirror.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - Looks so good on paper, but never performs.
Lightning Dragon - That's way too much echo, and no haste.
Arc-Slogger - 40 card decks don't like this guy. Having a single shock on this body isn't worth the mana.
Shard Volley - Steep drawback for a sub par effect.
Pyrokinesis - Free spells are cool, but quite often I found I was pitching a more valiable spell than I was getting from the card itself.
Searing Blaze - Too situational. You need a target, you need RR, and you need to have made a land drop in the same turn, making it basically a sorcery. As instant speed burn, it's just an overcosted shower of sparks.
Elves of Deep Shadow - There's better green mana critters.
Elvish Warrior - Unimpressive.
Nissa's Chosen - See Elvish Warrior.
Omnath, Locus of Mana - I recently cut him. He's cute, but he's super expensive.
Wolfbriar Elemental - Too much top-end green. He's outclassed at pretty much ever casting cost he can be resolved at.
Weatherseed Treefolk - A fun creature from the old times, but the recursion was often irrelevant, and the GGG is a *****.
Fastbond - This is a cool card, but I found it irrelevant. It may be good in your cube where there's an utter lack of other fast mana.
Rampant Growth - Outclassed by other fetch cards. for 1 extra mana there's a bunch of spells that will both ramp and lead to card advantage.
Channel - Overpriced and narrow. If the Channel card is negated, that's a big waste of life. May be fun with an Eldrazi dude tho...
Executioner's Capsule - Overpriced and lacking compared to other black removal.
AEther Vial - Never worked like I'd hoped. I found myself simply paying for the creatures, and suffering card-disadvantage through the vial.
Trusty Machete - There is much better equipment by cube standards.
Mask of Memory - See Machete.
Coldsteel Heart - All these 6 suffer from the same thing. Underwhelming and unneeded when all 10 signets are there. The only one of these cards I like is Mind Stone, because it replaces itself when the ramp is no longer needed. The rest are super meh.
Fellwar Stone
Star Compass
Guardian Idol
Prismatic Lens
Everflowing Chalice
Lotus Vale - Risky and not very rewarding. Unless you've got multiple tripple color costs from different colors in the deck, this card sucks. Also, if you need this card because the mana is that bad, the deck sucks.
Stalking Stones - Much better man-lands available for cube.
Gargoyle Castle - See Stones.
Now in addition to those cards, there are a lot of card swaps I'd perform too (like swapping out Captain of the Watch for Yosei the Morning Star, and removing Battlegrace Angel for Reveillark) but those suggestions can all come on a different day.
Hope that's helpful. That list was actually quite a lot of work. We all just want to see people cubing with the best lists they can. It's not a competition thing, its a support thing.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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pacifism and stoneforge will be replaced in white.
broken ambitions, fabricate and ertai will be replaced in blue.
ebon hand, stromgald, assasin and coffin queen will be replaced in black.
ashling the pilgrim will be replaced in red
some of the weak artifact mana will be replaced in the artifact section.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Sounds great. Any idea of what you're bringing in for those cards?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
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Slith Fire Walker is probably the best from this list. He was pretty bad for us, though. He's a lot better in constructed than he is in the cube. He doesn't translate very well between the formats.
I'd have to agree with wtwlf here and go with something totally different in Dwarven Blastminer or his cousin Dwarven Miner. Both of those are better than Fire Walker, IMO.
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One suggestion. You say many of the cards have been in your cube and were cut for one reason or another. I remember when I first built my cube, it was terrible, but it had some good cards in it. Well, when surrounded by a bunch of crappy cards, good cards may not function as well and get cut, but can deserve another chance. I remember a good number of cards performing underwhelmingly in the first incarnations of my cube. In the same way, cards that were once first picks began weakening and eventually leaving the cube. Some cards deserve another chance after trying to shine through some of the cube's less proud moments.
I also fully agree with wtwlf's analysis of those cards, having played with many of them myself. Like I mentioned in my ranty and appalled post from before, I sort of like the harsh mono color policy, despite my love for multi-color cards. it's interesting.
About the cubes here inbreeding, I don't believe that. I'm not going to say that there aren't 3 or 4 cards in my cube that are there because I straight up copied cards from someone's (probably usman's) list, but all in all the cards in my cube are my own choice. It just so happens that most people's cube's aim to be the most powerful they can be without restriction, which leads us to assume that that's what other's are trying to do. My restriction is NO proxies. that means that until I'm a crazy millionaire, my cube will be unpowered, and my lands are doomed to suck until my wallet is well endowed.
anyway, check out the "should I run this card thread" and the "card vs. card thread" for some stellar advice about specific changes, cuts, and inclusions.
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@Fogg: I do run proxies and I suggest it also to you. If there is a card you want to test in your cube, proxie it up, test it in a game session (ok, the duals don't need it) and if it fullfilled your expectations, buy the card. Especially if you have budget restrictions this helps to prevent spending money on "bad buys" that end up in your side pile.
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pyrokinesis out -> violent eruption in
Arc-slogger out -> thunderblust in
channel out -> survival of the fittest in
juggernaut out -> crystal shard in
Still no good replacement for ashling found :-( Something like "1R haste 3/1 whenever this is dealt damage it deals that much damage to its controller" would be a great addition.
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It's not solely for blowing up problematic lands. It provides aggro with a powerful tool against control decks.
Dwarven Blastminer and Slith Firewalker are both much, much better than Ashling.
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Comments and criticism are welcome.
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Love the changes!
The low existing ACMC plus the new disruption package should help to balance things out between aggro and control.
Red could use some LD though...
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out <> in
Smash to Smithereens <> Hellrider There are already 4 creatures with build-in artifact destruction in red, so I think the inclusion of an additional finisher for red aggro decks is an upgrade
Precursor Golem <> Sundering Titan The nine power over three bodies for 5 mana is very powerful. The weakness against removal makes it a bit a liability though. Sundering Titan on the other hand is probably much more needed as Tinker/reanimation/ramp target.
Additionally, I'm trying to find space to reinclude Wild Mongrel and Plow Under, but I don't know what to cut. Any suggestions?
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I really like Precursor Golem, it's definitely a high variance card, but when it's good it's sweet. I feel like Sundering Titan won't be hard cast that often, which makes me wary. I might think about cutting Black Vise or Scorched Ruins. Vise is pretty swingy, really hard to beat on T1 and dead later on, which is a minus for me. Scorched Ruins seems powerful, but slightly weakened in your cube due to the relative lack of 6-drops. If I can ramp 2 in one turn, I think the best jump is 4 to 6 mana. I can sac 2 lands and still make double-colored costs and most 6-drops end the game. There's just not that many in your cube. Ruins is slightly better than it would be elsewhere because there is no red land destruction, but if I was going to make a cut I would probably go with Ruins.
As for Wild Mongrel and Plow Under, the cards in your green section I'd think about cutting are (in order of worst to better):
I think both Wild Mongrel and Plow Under can help aggro, so cutting aggro cards won't weaken aggro too much overall. Mtenda Lion seems the weakest creature in your green section. Giving the opponent the choice seems weak to me, and paying U can shut off even swords and Jitte.
Skinshifter just took too much mana to really shine for me, and Wild Dogs can suck, both seem rather lackluster to me, so I would cut whichever one you feel is weakest.
in <> out
sun titan <> sublime archangel
Sublime Archangel led to some frustrating mid combat blow outs. Sun Titan is a card I always wanted to test, but never found space for it.
wall of omens <> Kor Sanctifiers
Kor Sanctifiers got always picked very late and was often sitting
in the SB. Disenchant effects are needed, but they need to be better than that. Wall of Omens is boring but very efficient. It replaces itself and keeps an attacker at bay.
The changes in white help to unload the overcrowded 4cc slot.
time spiral <> sphinx of jwar isle
Sphinx of Jwar Isle played way too often like a Wall of Denial. Time Spiral is a powerful effect. If you can break the symmetry it becomes bonkers.
animate dead <> inquisition of kozilek
Inqusition of Kozilek misses some key cards. If it would say "four or less", it would stay. Animate Dead comes back in. Solid reanimation spell. Not much to say here.
inferno titan <> magus of the scroll
Magus of the Scroll was actually pretty good at finishing off an opponent who stabilized the board. But every removal in the cube kills him. Inferno Titan is the second best of the Titans in cube. That's enough of reason to be played.
armada wurm <> sigarda, host of herons
Armada Wurm has more interactions and raw power than Sigarda, host of herons.
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In <-> Out
Experiment One <-> Arbor Elf
Arbor Elf is the weakest of the green mana dorks and e1 is a welcome addition to support green aggro. The other potential cut would have been Sakura-Tribe Elder. I think the one mana dorks are more important but ste is a better card per se. I would be interested to hear some opinions on Arbor Elf VS STE.
Boros Charm <-> Slayers Stronghold
Boros Charm has so many strong options for aggressive boros decks that it is a must include. Wtwlf even scored it as #1 card from GTC in his set review. Stronghold has good lategame potential but reduces your chances to get the coloured mana you need in the beginning.
other changes:
Animate Dead <-> Pox
This swap was done earlier to give pox a test run. The card did not live up to its expectations (pox overhype on these boards?). So animate dead is back.
Kargaan Dragonlord <-> Chandra Nalaar
Chandra felt a little slow lately. A 5 mana Flame Tongue Kavu that makes only minimal pressure on the opponent seems to "fair" for a powered 360 cube. Maybe Gore House Chainwalker would be better than the dragonlord. Opinions?
Tezzeret Agent of Bolas <-> Psychatog
The famous tog is also a victim of the power creep. Next to Tarmogoyf, sewer Nemesis and Lothlet Troll he looks pretty obsolet. Since this cube has a rather strong emphasis on Artifacts, UB Tez is a natural fit.
Deathrite Shaman <-> Fire//Ice
Lingering Souls <-> Celestial Colonade
Lingering Souls is known to be a solid card. The Shaman gets a test run. Fire//Ice is a good card but nothing spectacular for the freestyle section. Colonnade was cut over the signet because they are valued extremely high in our group and artifacts and the artifact deck are pushed in this cube.
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-Reveillark +Imposing Sovereign
-Pyroclasm +Chandra, Pyromaster
-Genesis +Elvish Mystic
Other updates:
-Whipflare +Chandra Nalaar
-terminate +[CARD]Falkenrath aristocrat
[/CARD]
-5 freestyle section:
+1 each colour:
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I like the rest of the upgrade though I must say I'm trying to put Creeping Tar Pit back in my cube.
Cheers,
rant
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Reveillark has not enough targets in a control deck and is too expensive for aggro. For us he was relegated to midrange and ETB trigger heavy decks. If he is missed he'll come back.
Creeping tar pit was not cut because of power reasons but because of restructuration of the cube. There are three land slots in my guild section and the fetch, dual, shock land trio is untouchable.
Thanks for the feedback.
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