MTG Salvation

First of all, welcome to the cube forum. A while back I made a FAQ for starting your thread. Found here
Take a look at it.

I want to make sure I'm getting your requirments.

Only cards with the Modern "8th eddition" border. Promos and the like with this border are ok.
Planar Chaos is Ok, what about Future Sight?
No Tribal, No Arcane, No Honden

Just going to point out a few cards you forgot.

Swords to Plowshares was reprinted in the Blue White coldsnap preconstruct.
Are you ok with functional reprints? If so you need Savannah Lions.
Calciderm had a promo with the normal border if you want to go fro Planar Chaos to normal border.
Mirror Entity and Paladin en vec are two good 3-drops you are missing.
Battlegrace angel is a good replacment for Baneslayer Angel.
Exalted Angel was printed as a (gorgeous) judge promo.
I would hold off on getting elspeth until the Elspeth vs Tezzeret.

Shelldock Isle and Faerie Conclave are two good blue lands you could be playing.

You need more red 1-drops. Mogg Fanatic Magus of the Scroll, Grim Lavamancer(Printed a sa Judge Promo) are all cards you are missing.
I would probably play Ghitu Encampment as a red land.

Regrowth was printed as a Judge Promo, you can get it for like 6-8 IIRC.
You are missing Treetop Viliage.

I would include both teramorphic expanse and the functional reprit of it.

Thank you for all the advice! Comments in bold.

Quote from Pringlesman

First of all, welcome to the cube forum. A while back I made a FAQ for starting your thread. Found here
Take a look at it.

I took a look at it and it really helped me out. I didn't use the .txt exactly, but either way I wanted to formally thank you for making something like that. It's part of what inspired me to post in the first place.

I want to make sure I'm getting your requirments.

Only cards with the Modern "8th eddition" border. Promos and the like with this border are ok.
Planar Chaos is Ok, what about Future Sight?
No Tribal, No Arcane, No Honden

Yes, pretty much. I'd like to avoid white borders too if possible, which makes some stragglers from 8E/9E difficult, but I already have many good foils from those sets, like Plow Under, Bribery, City of Brass, Wildfire, etc.

I actually think the Hondens are a pretty cool idea. For some reason "Shrine" doesn't bug me since in my view it makes the design of the cards more elegant rather than less elegant. However... I'm not sure that any of them are really Cubable, so it's somewhat moot.

Just going to point out a few cards you forgot.

Swords to Plowshares was reprinted in the Blue White coldsnap preconstruct.

I've been looking for a CST Swords to Plowshares, but it's a tough one to find. I will replace Condemn with it when I get one, though. (I own copies of some of the other interesting cards from that precon, though, like Zuran Spellcaster, Portent, and Brainstorm.)

Are you ok with functional reprints? If so you need Savannah Lions.

Lions is another classic I will definitely include one day. But I bought/traded for white one-drops a lot lately (I just got foil Mom, Isamaru, Lynx and Student within the past month or so!), so I feel I'll wait a bit before making it my top priority.

Calciderm had a promo with the normal border if you want to go fro Planar Chaos to normal border.

Calciderm's promo has pretty cool artwork, but I already have a Planar Chaos foil, which I like a little better. I think I'd actually prefer the use of the PLC border wherever possible for color-shifted cards. (Like if I wanted to use Tom, I'd prefer a PLC one to a 10E one).

In fact... sometimes I think it'd be really cool if they had continued the use of that border. A Manic Vandal with that border would be neat.

Mirror Entity and Paladin en vec are two good 3-drops you are missing.

I dislike Changelings (another one of those random silly things I dislike aesthetically), but I've heard only good things about the Entity and Chameleon Colossus, so one day I might just have to put them in.

I've always been a fan of the Paladin, and when I pick one up he will go in. Which reminds me... should I also pick up promo Silver Knight?

Battlegrace angel is a good replacment for Baneslayer Angel.
Exalted Angel was printed as a (gorgeous) judge promo.

I believe I have the precon that Battlegrace is in... I just need to find where I misplaced it.

Agreed on the gorgeous art for Exalted Angel. Sadly, it's hard-to-find and way out of my price range for now. If I was going to spend $30+ on a judge card it would be Armageddon or Vindicate or something.

Assuming I proxied it, I still might be a little weirded-out by the Morph. I know it's just a way to get it out on turn 4 instead of casting it for its full cost, but then I'd want a bunch of other Morph creatures to make it a "surprise," would end up playing Red Akroma and half of Jace's Duel Deck, and things would spiral completely out of control!

I would hold off on getting elspeth until the Elspeth vs Tezzeret.

You're right. I forgot about that.

Shelldock Isle and Faerie Conclave are two good blue lands you could be playing.

You need more red 1-drops. Mogg Fanatic Magus of the Scroll, Grim Lavamancer(Printed a sa Judge Promo) are all cards you are missing.
I would probably play Ghitu Encampment as a red land.

Regrowth was printed as a Judge Promo, you can get it for like 6-8 IIRC.
You are missing Treetop Viliage.

I'll pick up an Isle the next time I buy some cards- it seems like a lot of fun and it's inexpensive.

I have all three of those manlands, and will include them too the next time I expand my Land section. My only problem is that I'd need to give White and Black a nonbasic land too to complete the "cycle." (In quotes because I don't mean the literal cycle with Spawning Pool. )

I'll pick up a Mogg Fanatic and Magus. I've always been a Fanatic fan, and sought mine out when I built this Cube... but I think I traded them all away to a friend. Grim Lavamancer looks great, but suffers from being too expensive unless I proxy.

Regrowth will probably be the first judge foil I buy for the Cube.

I would include both teramorphic expanse and the functional reprit of it.

Evolving Wilds will go in too the next time I expand.

Thanks again, Pringlesman.

EDIT: is there a more readable way to quote and respond to posts, or does this look OK?

I updated my original post to make it more readable and less of a textwall. No updates on the Cube itself yet, though one is just around the corner.

I ordered a bunch of cards the other day, so hopefully I'll get them in the mail tomorrow. All of these are foil except the Swords to Plowshares, but not all of them are going in the Cube.

I'm not sure about all these cards, nor am I sure exactly how to make changes yet. Should I drop cards to add these? Or should I just expand for now, given my Cube's small size?


Cards I ordered

White
Swords to Plowshares- I'm glad I finally picked up a Coldsnap theme deck copy.
Stormfront Pegasus (foil upgrade)
White Knight (foil upgrade)
Oust- With Swords going in, is there any room for this? Is it better than Condemn?
Aven Riftwatcher- White lacks 3-drop creatures, and this guy seems interesting.
Weathered Wayfarer- I have a lot of white 1-drops for such a small Cube. Does he fit?
Loam Lion- Without Ravnica duals, is this guy worth it?
Elite Vanguard (foil upgrade)

Blue
Negate- I like the mirror of this and Remove Soul, but I know they're more "OK" than "fantastic."
Scroll Thief (foil upgrade)
Voyager Drake- Maybe I'm just intrigued by the fact that we haven't had a 3/3 flyer for 4 since Phantom Monster, but this guy doesn't seem altogether terrible.
See Beyond- Is this any good for my Cube?
Wind Zendikon- This seems OK.
Mahamoti Djinn- He's not going in, don't worry.
Tideforce Elemental- An upgrade to Puppeteer, but still not awesome or anything. Does Blue even eed a creature in this niche?
Clone (foil upgrade)

Black
Ambition's Cost- I have Phyrexian Arena and Sign in Blood, but I don't have Night's Whisper. Is this worth it, given that?
Ravenous Rats- Cool 8E art, but doesn't seem good enough to me.
Tendrils of Corruption- I like the idea of enabling monoblack, but ultimately it just gives Black fewer general-use cards.
Arrogant Bloodlord- Weird card. Does it deliver? I wish Black had more good creatures that cost 2B. Should I pick up a Dusk Urchins?
Befoul- Not going in unless I need filler. I like most of the Black cards that are already in the Cube, but I really have trouble finding cards to expand Black.
Viscera Dragger- I actually like this guy a lot.

Red
Hammer of Bogardan- While I love the Hammer, I feel like I already have way too much burn for such a small Cube. Should I reserve some of it for a Cube expansion, or should I just leave it in to begin with?
Kird Ape- Again, is he still good without Ravnica duals?
Bogardan Hellkite- Even though I love Flameblast Dragon, I may have to drop him.
Goblin Arsonist- Not Mogg Fanatic, but he's something, right?
Word of Seizing- Even though several Cubes seem to run this card, I've never seen it discussed. Thoughts?
Staggershock- While this will go in, I still have the "too much burn" fear overall.
Magus of the Scroll- Another Red one-drop I needed.
Boom//Bust The only mass land destruction I can get without purchasing Judge foil Armageddon, but this is a neat card nevertheless.

Green
Biorhythm- This card is so silly I had to have a copy. But it's not going in the Cube.
Acidic Slime (foil upgrade)
Garruk's Companion- Very few people seem to run this. Is it the White first-strikers who give it trouble?
Giant Growth- This really doesn't seem all that awful since I don't have Berserk.
Momentous Fall- This is a really unique card. I'd like to hear people's thoughts.
Harrow- For some reason I didn't have a copy of this.
Pelakka Wurm- Surely this is better than Thorn Elemental or one of my other fatties?

Artifact
Fellwar Stone- I like this card, but probably should've opted for a Stone of the Mind variety instead.
Razormane Masticore- I lacked good artifact creatures.
Triskelion- This guy will help in that department too.
Runed Servitor- I sort of like this, though I'm wary.
Prismatic Lens (foil upgrade)
Prophetic Prism- I don't know if this is worth it. When I already have the Signets, the Lens, and Fellwar Stone, this seems like too much.

Multicolor
Bituminous Blast- Should I drop Blightning, Terminate, or Redcap for this? I'm attached to all three.

Land
Evolving Wilds- Needed a copy of this.

Yay new cards, Ill go over them

STP is one of the top 5 white cards (even higher without all the older cards) in my opinion. You will never replace this.
Stormfront pegasus is a good creature. Normally I recomend Soltari Trooper before it, but you obviously can't play it.
I just got a foil m10 White Knight also.
I'm not a fan of Oust. YOu ahve much better removal options with STP, PTE, O-ring, Journey, Arrest, Faith's Fetters, Temporal Isolation, Pacifism, etc.
White does have a problem with it's three drops. But I would play Paladin-en-Vec and Mirror Entity before Aven Riftwatcher.
I never liked Weathered Wayfarer.
Loam Lion is awesome even without rav and revised duals.
I was amazed at how cheap foil Elite Vanguards were when I bought mine.

Blue
I've played Negate before. It wasn't particularly bad or particularly good. I'm not sure how many good 2 mana counters blue has in the new borders.
Scroll thief is an OK card. I just think blue has better in the three drop area. Man-o-War, Bad-o-War, Vendilion Clique, Seredib Efreet. And if I wanted card draw attached to a creature I rather play Thieving Magpie.
I don't like Voyager Drake. I'm not sure what kind of deck you expect him to see play in? Blue Agro?
See Beyond looks ok but un-impressive. I would expect it to be a card you would replace soon after putting in.
Wind Zendikon would be good with lands with built in sacrifice effects to get to use them twice. I can't see this being all that great unless you wanted to support blue agro.
Tideforce Elemental is an upgrade. But it's still not particularly good.
Nice foil clone. I need to get one still.

Black
I rather play sign in blood and Night's Whisper than Ambition's Cost.
I'm not sure which art I prefer for Ravenous Rats. I really like the rats. But I would play Liliana's Specter before it.
I would probably shy away from Tendrils unless you strongly wanted to support mono black. If so you need Cabal Coffers (FNM Promo), Urborg TOY, Nantuko Shade, and probably Consume Spirit.
I was always interested by Arrogant Boodlord. It looks interesting.
Befoul seems too expesive for both Creature distruction and land distruction.
I can't imagine a post 8th cube is so different where Viscera Dagger would be good.

Red
Hammer of BOgardan's recuriosn ability rarely happened when I played it.
Play Kird Ape.
I like Hellkite, but I'm getting close to cutting him because it cost 8.
Goblin Arsonist is better than not running Mogg Fanatic also. But why not just get a mogg fanatic. I can't imagine a GOblin vs Elves/Xth/DCI promo being more than a buck.
It wasn't good enough when I played it in a 720 card cube 2 years ago. It's not good enough in a 310 card cube now.
I use to have a fear of running too much burn. I found it was unfounded.
I play Magus of the Scroll in my cube with tougher requirements than you. You should play it.
YOu could always play obliterate to get another Geddon... I would rather save my money for a Foil Geddon than buy this.

Green
Biorythum is a fun card that isn't cubable.
I just got a foil Acidic Slime also.
I haven't gotten a chance to cube since I got my Garruk's Companion. I can't say if it's good or not.
Giant's Growth probably shouldn't make the cut in a cube your size. Play Vines of the Vastwood, Berserk(if you can get a FTV one), Stonewood Invocation before this.
Harrow is good. I had the odd not owning thing happen with me and Kodama's Reach.
Not Thorn Elemental! My first deck had a foil one in it. But yeah it's an upgrade.

Artifact
You are playing 10 signets. That should be enough 2-mana artifacts. I don't think you need Mindstone, Fellwar Stone, or Prismatic Lens, prophetic prism, etc..
I love the masticore.
Trisk is amazing.
Ruined Servitor looks like a good standin until you get a solemn simulacrum.

Multicolor
Drop the blightning.

Lands
Seems good since you can't afford real fetchlands right now.

On cube size.
Honestly I would figure out how big of a cube you want and go up to that size. Some archetypes are good in small cubes and horrible in large cubes. For instance I wouldn't play Tinker or Steppe Lynx in a 720 card cube. But they are awesome in 450 card cubes. I always say play the size of a cube that you want and to always play a minimum of 360 cards.

Quote from Pringlesman »

STP is one of the top 5 white cards (even higher without all the older cards) in my opinion. You will never replace this.

Yeah, the STP was $6 (the most expensive card out of any of these), but since I'm sure I'll never drop it, I figured it was worth it.

White does have a problem with it's three drops. But I would play Paladin-en-Vec and Mirror Entity before Aven Riftwatcher.

That's right. I still need to pick up the Paladin sometime...

I never liked Weathered Wayfarer.
Loam Lion is awesome even without rav and revised duals.
I was amazed at how cheap foil Elite Vanguards were when I bought mine.

I got my Vanguard for $0.18!

What don't you like about Wayfarer?

I don't like Voyager Drake. I'm not sure what kind of deck you expect him to see play in? Blue Agro?
See Beyond looks ok but un-impressive. I would expect it to be a card you would replace soon after putting in.
Wind Zendikon would be good with lands with built in sacrifice effects to get to use them twice. I can't see this being all that great unless you wanted to support blue agro.

For some reason I like the idea of Blue aggro, but I doubt I can pull it off (especially in a Cube like this).

I would probably shy away from Tendrils unless you strongly wanted to support mono black. If so you need Cabal Coffers (FNM Promo), Urborg TOY, Nantuko Shade, and probably Consume Spirit.
I was always interested by Arrogant Boodlord. It looks interesting.
Befoul seems too expesive for both Creature distruction and land distruction.

I have the Shade and Consume Spirit, but the only reason I have "monoblack" in the Cube is because I seem to run into droughts when it comes to expanding Black more than any other color.

Goblin Arsonist is better than not running Mogg Fanatic also. But why not just get a mogg fanatic. I can't imagine a GOblin vs Elves/Xth/DCI promo being more than a buck.

I'm honestly not sure why I don't have one. The reason I didn't buy one in this batch is because I simply forgot. I remember giving 3-4 Mogg Fanatics to a friend at one point, so those must have been the only ones I had.

I use to have a fear of running too much burn. I found it was unfounded.

I suppose it doesn't really hurt the Cube any to include a bunch of good burn spells that I would have included in an expansion anyway.

YOu could always play obliterate to get another Geddon... I would rather save my money for a Foil Geddon than buy this.

I already run Obliterate (it's not fantastic, but it's fun.) And the Boom//Bust was only $1, so it's not too big a deal. I actually like it a lot, though.

Giant's Growth probably shouldn't make the cut in a cube your size. Play Vines of the Vastwood, Berserk(if you can get a FTV one), Stonewood Invocation before this.

I have Vines and Stonewood in already. But yeah, I see your point.

You are playing 10 signets. That should be enough 2-mana artifacts. I don't think you need Mindstone, Fellwar Stone, or Prismatic Lens, prophetic prism, etc..

Considering my artifact section is so small, you may have a point, but ultimately I will certainly want cards like Mind Stone.

Made a small update to expand the Cube.

I decided to add one creature and one noncreature to each color. Some of the adds are subpar, like Drake, but at this point I'm mostly just trying to expand it slightly. With these additions, the Cube is now 325 cards.

Some of the cards that are "must adds" from the post earlier simply haven't arrived yet. But you can bet that Staggershock, etc., will have guaranteed slots.



Next update, I will start cutting cards. I'm out of sleeves, so that should stop me from recklessly adding too much.

Hopefully I'll be able to draft it tonight! It's been a while.

As a side note, I used to be really quirky with cards that bugged me as well, so I know exactly how you feel!

In time though, I've grown to appreciate the differences throughout Magic and actually strive to make it as diverse as possible. Old Borders, new borders, Foils, non-foils, Promos, Portal, etc. The only thing that still really bugs me that I haven't gotten over is white borders, so I removed or replaced all of them. =\ My cube is like a Magic history lesson lol.

But yeah, in time you might find that it doesn't bother you as much. I had forgotten that Bitterblossum was Tribal until you just pointed it out again. =p

Quote from Darklich528

As a side note, I used to be really quirky with cards that bugged me as well, so I know exactly how you feel!

In time though, I've grown to appreciate the differences throughout Magic and actually strive to make it as diverse as possible. Old Borders, new borders, Foils, non-foils, Promos, Portal, etc. The only thing that still really bugs me that I haven't gotten over is white borders, so I removed or replaced all of them. =\ My cube is like a Magic history lesson lol.

But yeah, in time you might find that it doesn't bother you as much. I had forgotten that Bitterblossum was Tribal until you just pointed it out again. =p

Thankfully the only real excluded "victim" thanks to white borders is Savannah Lions right now (or is there something else I'm not thinking of?).

One day (when I actually get a Bitterblossom, perhaps! :p) I have a feeling Tribal, etc. won't bother me as much.

The preference of new borders is mostly due to aesthetics. I love the "feel" of the new cards- both in the artistic look of the frames and in the cleaned-up card text. Also, I like that it makes the cards look the same since they all have the same border.

But I prefer them because of some other factors, too.

First, I simply like the idea of a modern Cube mechanically- I was really inspired by BennyDJazz and wtwlf123 and their Modern Cubes. I like how certain cards that aren't quite good enough for standard cubes get to see play, I like how it's much less expensive, and I like how it is fewer cards to sift through.

A long time ago, my first idea was to make a Cube that "felt like a core set" (had no block mechanics, had simple cards, etc)- many of the people I knew who wanted to draft with me were very new to Magic at the time, and I've always loved Core sets for some reason. (I even love drafting them!)

But then I decided that it just wouldn't be as fun without cards like Mulldrifter, Blastoderm, etc. I still adore Core sets- particularly the direction they've taken with M10/M11. I do think making a custom Cube that has the resonant feel of M10/M11 with the powerlevel of Cube would be a lot of fun, though.

Anyway... Second, I own very few cards that even have the old frame; I started collecting cards around 8th Edition. I "got into" Magic around the time Invasion came out, though- I even had a few issues of TopDeck magazine, and was always fascinated with Magic strategy even before I owned any cards or knew how to play! I remember rereading them again and again, hehe. I've played all sorts of old sets with friends on Magic Workstation, though (I'm fond of draft, sealed, and Preconstructed decks) and I'm familiar with nearly every set at least a little bit.

With those things said, though... One thing I've been wrestling with is whether or not to include proxies of "old" cards in the new frame with errata, etc. I really like the idea of it- it would be fun to try out lots of new (old ) cards, and it's common in Cubes to proxy expensive cards like the Power anyway. On the other hand, I fear that it would just make the boundaries of this being a "Modern Cube" collapse. I'd have to adjust so many things and make so many proxies. One possibility is limiting the slots "old" cards are allowed and rotating them. Another possibility is adding them in slowly. I dunno. For now I won't worry about it.

Anyway, here's another update.


The Cube is now 338 cards, which is enough for 8 players to draft with 14-card packs.

not everything you're putting in is good, but nothing you're taking out needs to be in the cube. and you're adding a lot of excellent cards. overall good update.

Yeah, there was certainly some filler added, especially in Black. Most of it was simply to expand the Cube and test stuff. But I'm happy that my cuts were good.

What cards should be my top priorities to track down at this point?

Quote from BlueBabyDragon

Yeah, there was certainly some filler added, especially in Black. Most of it was simply to expand the Cube and test stuff. But I'm happy that my cuts were good.

What cards should be my top priorities to track down at this point?

that sounds like a job for cube comparison results.

thank you, eidolon!

using that list, this is what i'd recommend as the most important cards missing, sorted by section:


the stuff i left out isn't bad or not worth putting in, i just think these should be your priority.

First of all, I wanted to thank you for your time and your help, quitequieter and eidolon. You've made some good suggestions here!

Quote from quitequieter »

thank you, eidolon!

using that list, this is what i'd recommend as the most important cards missing, sorted by section:

Misty Rainforest
Verdant Catacombs
Scalding Tarn
Arid Mesa
Marsh Flats

Hallowed Fountain
Watery Grave
Blood Crypt
Stomping Ground
Temple Garden
Godless Shrine
Steam Vents
Overgrown Tomb
Sacred Foundry
Breeding Pool

Azorius Chancery
Dimir Aqueduct
Rakdos Carnarium
Gruul Turf
Selesnya Sanctuary
Orzhov Basilica
Izzet Boilerworks
Golgari Rot Farm
Boros Garrison
Simic Growth Chamber

Mutavault
Reflecting Pool
City of Brass
Gemstone Mine

I have City of Brass and the bounceland cycle already.

The fetchlands and Ravnica lands are pretty expensive, but I'll definitely collect them all one day. It might be a while, though.

Savannah Lions
Soltari Priest
Wall of Omens
Paladin en-Vec
Mirror Entity
Reveillark
Baneslayer Angel
Yosei, the Morning Star
Temporal Isolation
Spectral Procession
Wrath of God
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Gideon Jura
Austere Command

I'm going to pick up an Elspeth in the duel deck pretty easily- I'm excited about that, hehe.

For the Shadow creatures like Soltari Priest and Looter il-Kor in Blue below, as well as the Shadow-themed enchantment Temporal Isolation, do situations involving Shadow creatures being blocked ever arise at all, or is it basically just "unblockable"? I feel like Shadow would be more interesting if there was enough of it for it to function as something different than "unblockable"... but regardless, the three should make the cut and will be included ASAP.

I love Savannah Lions and he will definitely go in one day, but he might have to wait a while. I have basically every white one-drop I want except him, first of all, which is plenty (given the small size of my Cube). Second, because foils (so he'll be black-bordered. :p) of him go for about $10 or more, I feel like I could spend that money on other needed cards.

And all of these white cards are great suggestions. White is the color I've thought about and planned out the most, and those are all cards I plan to add as soon as possible. Austere Command seems like a really interesting Wrath, and on paper I prefer it to Akroma's Vengeance.

Enclave Cryptologist
Looter il-Kor
Vendilion Clique
Sower of Temptation
Venser, Shaper Savant
Glen Elendra Archmage
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Academy Ruins
Keiga, the Tide Star
Inkwell Leviathan
Repeal
Cryptic Command
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Psionic Blast
Crystal Shard
Vedalken Shackles

I have an Inkwell Leviathan, and while he's not in yet, I plan to include him soon- probably in place of Isleback Spawn. Is he a better choice over the Spawn if I don't have things like Tinker yet?

Interesting fact about Psionic Blast- it's the only card that is only available in the new frame if you get the textless version. For this reason, I probably won't include it, unfortunately, even though I think I have a copy.

Before I posted my Cube, I used to run textless copies of cards like Harmonize, Remove Soul, and Tidings, and people would always ask what they did in the middle of the draft. That got really annoying. It was also a bit irritating to hear friends arguing over whether Tidings was an instant or a sorcery, whether it drew 3 cards or 4, etc.

Something like Blast would be even more of a headache (no pun intended) as it's kind of weird and obscure. Ditto for Cryptic- as omnipresent as that card was, what a weird choice for a textless foil with all its modes!

I'm certainly tempted to play the Player Rewards Lightning Bolt, though. Surely everyone knows what that does?!

Nezumi Graverobber
Bloodghast
Dark Confidant
Nezumi Shortfang
Vampire Hexmage
Plague Sliver
Tombstalker
Thoughtseize
Bitterblossom
Night's Whisper
Sudden Death
Damnation
Consuming Vapors
Sorin Markov
Stupor

Black is the color I feel I need to improve the most, so these suggestions are especially appreciated.

As soon as possible, I will replace Ravenous Rats with one of the "flip rats" from Kamigawa and Sign in Blood with Night's Whisper.

I would replace Mind Rot with the strictly-better Stupor, but Stupor is unavailable in the new frame. I'm being pretty strict with the new frame, so the future-bordered Tombstalker is out too unless they reprint it.

The rest of the cards are ones I will ideally collect one day.

Keldon Marauders
Plated Geopede
Hearth Kami
Kargan Dragonlord
Hell's Thunder
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Greater Gargadon
Avalanche Riders
Banefire
Rift Bolt

The fact that the Red suggestion list is fairly short implies I'm on the right track, which is good.

I used to have a foil 10E Squee but I traded it to a friend who wanted it for EDH.

I believe I own copies of some of these other cards, like Keldon Marauders, Plated Geopede, and Rift Bolt- I just need to find them.

Noble Hierarch
Twinblade Slasher
Joraga Treespeaker
Tarmogoyf
Viridian Zealot
Chameleon Colossus
Wickerbough Elder
Vengevine
Thornling
Woodfall Primus
Ohran Viper
Call of the Herd
Life from the Loam
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip

These are good suggestions, and I plan to include most of these. I won a draft the other day and my foil prize was Anathemancer, blech. I was hoping for Grip, but I guess it wasn't out yet.

Figure of Destiny
Trygon Predator
Stillmoon Cavalier
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Mystic Snake
Gelectrode
Bloodbraid Elf
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Angel of Despair
Stormbind
Void
Maelstrom Pulse
Voidslime
Sarkhan Vol
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Rafiq of the Many
Broodmate Dragon
Sphinx of the Steel Wind

I have a Trygon Predator- it should take the place of Jhessian Infiltrator. Gelectrode could take the place of Noggle Bandit (even though I like him a lot for some reason).

I used to have Angel of Despair in the Cube, but I was unimpressed and replaced her with Debtors' Knell. Her WWBB really bugged me and I wanted to try out the Knell (so far it's been great). If I expand multicolor, she might have a slot.

Some of those cards are unavailable in the new frame as they were Timeshifted cards, but I do love Mystic Snake, Void, and friends.

I currently have no three-color gold cards (unless you count Wild Nacatl, as most people do), but as the Cube grows I might fit some of those suggestions in.

Solemn Simulacrum
Sundering Titan
Pithing Needle
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Grafted Wargear
Oblivion Stone
Crucible of Worlds

the stuff i left out isn't bad or not worth putting in, i just think these should be your priority.

All of these cards are great, and while most of them are expensive, ideally I would include them all.

Quote from BlueBabyDragon

I used to have Angel of Despair in the Cube, but I was unimpressed and replaced her with Debtors' Knell. Her WWBB really bugged me and I wanted to try out the Knell (so far it's been great). If I expand multicolor, she might have a slot.

she's best in stuff like 5 color control, black/white control, and reanimator, where the cost isn't a huge issue. i think those archetypes are enough to justify her but she's not a must have in black/white. i'd drop knell for her, but not something like mortify or stillmoon cavalier.

the only time a shadow creature has been blocked in my cube was with a vesuvan shapeshifter. i'm sure it happens in other cubes, but not very often i'm sure.

Well, I looked through a few boxes of my cards to find some stuff to improve the Cube. I'm pleased with what I found; I'd been meaning to add most of these cards.


Here are some other cards I found, but I don't know if any of these should replace anything. Most of them aren't typical Cube-caliber cards, but for the purposes of expansion I'd like to add at least something.


If nothing in this list is really good enough to make any sort of symmetrical update, fear not; soon I'll purchase some singles as well.


I preordered EvT, so Elspeth and Mishra's Factory will be nice. I'm not sure if Tezzeret will be good enough or not for me (or rather, if my Cube is good enough for him).

I like Dugar Hedge-Mage and Rolling Thunder alot. Tidehollow Sculler is good too, although I'm on the fence as to whether he's better than Gerrad's Verdict.

I'm not very excited about the other cards.

Quote from BlueBabyDragon

The fetchlands and Ravnica lands are pretty expensive, but I'll definitely collect them all one day. It might be a while, though.

Just wanted to add a note of encouragement. Slowly building the cube can be very rewarding. It's an awesome feeling to do a big swap of suboptimal cards out for some of the game's greats. I don't know what your budget is like but mine is fairly modest when it comes to Magic and over the past 2 years I've traded/bought my way into Ravnica duals, fetches and even ABU duals.

It's taken some time but the cube has really become the centerpiece of my Magic collection. You will get there eventually. The most important thing is to enjoy every draft and every new addition, don't feel like you are getting an inferior experience just because you don't have a finished, foiled out cube.

Quote from magicmerl »

I like Dugar Hedge-Mage and Rolling Thunder alot. Tidehollow Sculler is good too, although I'm on the fence as to whether he's better than Gerrad's Verdict.

I'm not very excited about the other cards.

This.

Except for the Rolling Thunder bit. I don't like that card. Especially not now that Comet Storm is out, and it's strictly better, and I don't even run that card.

My Cube is now 360 cards. The quality of the additions is mostly good, but I definitely feel there is still some filler.

Quote from SimTiki »

Just wanted to add a note of encouragement. Slowly building the cube can be very rewarding. It's an awesome feeling to do a big swap of suboptimal cards out for some of the game's greats. I don't know what your budget is like but mine is fairly modest when it comes to Magic and over the past 2 years I've traded/bought my way into Ravnica duals, fetches and even ABU duals.

It's taken some time but the cube has really become the centerpiece of my Magic collection. You will get there eventually. The most important thing is to enjoy every draft and every new addition, don't feel like you are getting an inferior experience just because you don't have a finished, foiled out cube.

I don't play Constructed at all (I am still interested in formats like Standard from the outside looking in- I like asking people at my LGS questions about their decks, the metagame, etc. I just don't have the time/money/desire to pursue it myself), so the Cube is certainly the centerpiece of my Magic collection as well. Literally all the cards I procure are with improving the Cube in mind. While I can't often make sweeping changes that dramatically improve its quality, it certainly is fun when I "fix" something about it.

I love drafting and sealed, though, and I've always preferred them to Constructed. I am even interested in old, stale Limited formats that nobody cares about.

For example... for some reason I've always had a fascination with 8th Edition Limited, even though it's a terrible format. Most colors have a glut of 4-drops and mostly-unplayable low drops. Uncommon slots are wasted (from a Limited perspective) on Urza's lands. Nearly every game effectively ends its interaction in some sort of 6-8 creature stalemate until someone draws Fodder Cannon or runs out of cards because they played first. It achieves a goofy sort of fun in spite of its stupidity, and I like the fact that it featured at least one card from every set and changed the card face, hehe. I think the reason everybody hates Core set drafts so much is because of the "8th Edition Problem", which is shared by a handful of other Core Sets as well.

I drafted M11 last night and didn't do too well, but I still had a great time. I actually think it's a really well-designed set despite its alleged simplicity. They really were on the right track with M10, which already cut a lot of the crappy cards that formerly clogged up packs, and M11 improved on it further (despite dropping some cool Limited cards like Tendrils of Corruption). There are some annoyances, like losing to Baneslayer Angel, but even she is no longer the "lose the game" problem she was in M10 due to Plummet and Combust. I've always preferred Core Set drafts because of their neutral sort of flavor, and some of the designs in M10/M11 are really great even though the cards aren't always the best. What they did is fix the "8th Edition problem"- and I appreciate the intricacies that went about to make that happen!

But getting back on subject... I guess I'm intrigued by Core Sets because of the "greatest hits" feel, and that's what Cube effectively is on a grander, more complex scale. I feel like I can do that myself, and I like the set-building thinking and feeling that provides.

Cube is the best Magic format of all. It combines all the best aspects of Limited (drafting skill, deck variety, colors being represented "purely"), with all the best aspects of Constructed (using the best cards, figuring out complex interactions, knowing what to add/drop). But in doing so, it suffers from hardly any of the weaknesses of either (in Limited's case, crappy cards clogging up the tail-end of the pack and "losing to random bombs"; in Constructed's case, having to buy 4 of every Constructed staple and worrying about stagnancy).

Thank you for your encouragement, SimTiki, and thanks to everyone for their advice!

I ordered a few cards on Monday. Hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow or the next day.

I need some help with what to drop, though.


If you can think of better cuts, let me know.

i think any of those cuts would be fine. i'd probably keep dismal failure out of those three.

I talked about this a bit with a friend who often drafts the Cube online with me.

I think the Viscera Dragger cut is the easiest one, though I'm still wary of all the kill spells in Black. Which kill spell, if any, should be on the chopping block?

For Red, as much as I love Obliterate, I think I'm going to give it a rest and try out Destructive Force a bit since it hasn't seen any play yet. Your reasoning is really good on the matter, eidolon. (I do have 8 planeswalkers now, but regardless it seems pretty similar to Destructive Force for more mana). My Obliterate is foil and I'm attached to it, hehe, but it can always come back.

For Green, my friend has suggested I cut Explore and Ant Queen (his reasoning is that he'd rather play Mitotic Slime than the Queen). For what it's worth, he really likes Momentous Fall- he wants to see it in action more. I don't mind giving Queen a break for a bit (I haven't played her in a while, though), but I'll humor him for now. I'm thinking something like Terra Stomper or Thorn Elemental or Rude Awakening might be a better cut in the long run.

Blue is the toughest. Tideforce Elemental is the easiest cut (even though I have one friend who always drafts it and always plays it, hehe). But I'm not sure about the others. I really don't want to cut Sleep. That card always seems to do interesting things when it's played and I'd really miss it if it was gone.

Dismal Failure is interesting. It's not Dismiss, but with the "Modern" restriction, it's the closest thing (Well, except maybe Cryptic Command, which I don't own). It's kind of an odd card, but like I said before, I'd feel bad cutting a counter.

My friend suggested cutting Mind Spring if I want to keep Jace's Ingenuity. While Jace's spell seems underwhelming to me compared to Gifts Ungiven and Fact or Fiction, I've also never seen it in action in the Cube, so for now it takes Mind Spring's slot.

On Friday I'm going to draft M11, I think, and on Saturday I'll pick up some SoM cards at the prerelease. My Cube will likely be slightly expanded at that point unless I run out of sleeves.

So for now, here are the changes: