MTG Salvation

Always glad to see another peasant cube list! Let me know how the Hondens work for you, since I'm thinking about testing them myself.

Quote from whydirt

Always glad to see another peasant cube list! Let me know how the Hondens work for you, since I'm thinking about testing them myself.

Samesies. I like your list a lot and am also curious about the Hondens and Ancient Ziggurat. I had it in for a while but cut it and have been mulling it over again recently.

Edit:Feedback on cards you are testing.
Zealous Persecution is always good but the high end is SO high. Real BCSM situation that I was kn the good side of:
Me: Doom Blade your awesome guy
Him:Active Faerie Conclave
Him:Cast Spellstutter Sprite
Me:Resolves
Him:Counter targets Doom Blase
Me:Persecute killing both faeries and fizzling the counter ability.

NecroSliver is awesome.
Ancient Tomb is broken.
Squaks like that are good but balanced.

Hello fellow peasant cuber!

Your list looks pretty solid based on a cursory inspection, although I see one glaring omission - Shelter! It can be such an enormous blowout.

Edit: I can confirm what citynoise said - Necrotic Sliver is very good.

To expand on my last post (got cut short cause was in class and professor came back from break):

Necrotic Sliver is really good. Sometimes he is just an Orzhov Desert Twister but othertimes he is like a Standstill on a 2/2. You know how bad players just don't cast spells for like 2 turns against a standstill because they don't want you to draw3 but then they draw their ZOMG AWESOME CRAW WURM and slam it - turning Standstill into Ancestral+double Time Walk? Yeah, this guy can be the same. They don't want you to kill their things so they don't play something for a turn or two until they realize they are going to lose. This also applies to Seal of Fire, ect.

Ancient Tomb is just broken it is like a 2mana colorless mana rock that costs 0. So absurd. I love slamming it and hate when I see it on the other side (even as aggro).

I have been doing the draft-1-get-3-more for Squdron Hawk for a long time now. Pretty much everybody I cube with regularly (since the beginning days) has no problem with it and those that I cube with occasionaly or rarely think it is overpowered or stupid. It is very good but not too good.

Comparison with Lingering Souls:
CONS:
1.) Costs 3 more mana overall for same overall P/T
2.) Less synergy with some things (dredge, looting, token-matters things)
3.) Because you have 4 you sometimes draw 2+ and get randomly mulliganed

PROS:
1.) Only requires 1 color of mana to get full value
2.) Because you have 4 of them you are highly likely to have one by turn2
3.) Easier to slowroll to play around wraths because you can play out 1 at a time as opposed to 2
4.) More synergy with some things (gravediggers)

Overall I think the hawks are better than the souls but not by as large amount as most people think.

Thanks for the posts guys! I'm definitely excited to get Zealous Persecution going in this thing, that play sounds really clutch; it's such a simple yet brutal card. Spellstutter Sprite is another card I've been thinking of including, speaking of which.

I do like Shelter. I was thinking that white could use a few more spells and a few less creatures (just look at that 2 cmc creature slot!). Troubled Healer is another card I'm looking to cram into white, actually. I like the Soltari bros, but sometimes I feel like they make games just annoying to play when they simply can't be interacted with, which is no fun as we all now, so their slots may open some day. The real drawback to that would be losing their interaction with black shadowers...

I'm glad to hear Necrotic Sliver is as good as I thought he might be. I really like the idea of slipping a few good-on-their-own Slivers into the cube and getting to see them drafted together at some point. I really don't like Basal Sliver 'cause the effect doesn't seem great when he's the only one you've got, but I think he's the next most playable peasant sliver other than maybe Cautery Sliver and I'm not going to waste a valuable Boros slot on "just okay." Ultimately I think I'll settle on just the three I have, as individually I really like each one's effect.

I have a lot of love for Squadron Hawk and the special way of playing him does add something to the cube, I think. I can try to muscle him in, it'd be about time the three FNM ones I picked up saw some action. Maybe just slip him into Whiteman Lion's slot.

Shelter is awesome. I have never been dissapointed with it.

I ran Acidic Sliver till RTR. Was always as good as you would expect it to be.

Quote from PopeJP

Thanks for the posts guys! I'm definitely excited to get Zealous Persecution going in this thing, that play sounds really clutch; it's such a simple yet brutal card. Spellstutter Sprite is another card I've been thinking of including, speaking of which.

I do like Shelter. I was thinking that white could use a few more spells and a few less creatures (just look at that 2 cmc creature slot!). Troubled Healer is another card I'm looking to cram into white, actually. I like the Soltari bros, but sometimes I feel like they make games just annoying to play when they simply can't be interacted with, which is no fun as we all now, so their slots may open some day. The real drawback to that would be losing their interaction with black shadowers...

I'm glad to hear Necrotic Sliver is as good as I thought he might be. I really like the idea of slipping a few good-on-their-own Slivers into the cube and getting to see them drafted together at some point. I really don't like Basal Sliver 'cause the effect doesn't seem great when he's the only one you've got, but I think he's the next most playable peasant sliver other than maybe Cautery Sliver and I'm not going to waste a valuable Boros slot on "just okay." Ultimately I think I'll settle on just the three I have, as individually I really like each one's effect.

I have a lot of love for Squadron Hawk and the special way of playing him does add something to the cube, I think. I can try to muscle him in, it'd be about time the three FNM ones I picked up saw some action. Maybe just slip him into Whiteman Lion's slot.

My problem is that none of the slivers stand on their own at this rarity outside of Acidic Sliver and Necrotic Sliver (I dislike Gemhide Sliver). I don't like Acidic Sliver because there are better options for B/R.

I didn't notice you weren't running Troubled Healer. It's an important card in my cube for W/x Aggro. It messes with combat math, it pushes through damage, it turns dead land draws into business, etc.

Quote from msten19

My problem is that none of the slivers stand on their own at this rarity outside of Acidic Sliver and Necrotic Sliver (I dislike Gemhide Sliver). I don't like Acidic Sliver because there are better options for B/R.

I didn't notice you weren't running Troubled Healer. It's an important card in my cube for W/x Aggro. It messes with combat math, it pushes through damage, it turns dead land draws into business, etc.

I would snap-run Boreal Druid over Gemhide if I wanted more cheap rampy guys. He does seem pretty bad.

Is the Healer that good? Being a 1/2 for 3 just looks sooo so so bad to me.

@Citynoise: Are there cards in particular you think are droppable for it? I haven't been all that impressed with Blinding Beam myself. Meadowboon is also standing awfully close to the chopping block.
On Troubled Healer; I've seen this guy in action in my buddy's pauper cube and he can just do some nasty, nasty things. He makes combat almost impossible to predict for your opponents, particularly when they don't know what your curve/hand looks like, and saves you from late game burn to the face. Obviously not great on turn three, but just so good when you're the slower deck.

I saw Acidic Sliver and passed over it for two main reasons: it looks like a worse Ember Hauler and it would take up a B/R slot, which is already one of the most crowded guilds for me ( I even cut Terminate D: ). I suppose if I were somehow to end up with a Rakdos card that just wasn't impressing me, he would be a serious consideration.

Naturally I'm trying to pick Slivers that can stand alone. I do like Gemhide Sliver as a standalone because a two CMC mana dork really isn't all that bad, just look at Overgrown Battlement. Sure, he's a 0/4 instead of a 1/1, but Gemhide provides great fixing in a cube that's pretty color intensive (I run more multicolor than most, I think) and has brutal synergy with a few other cards in the cube. I'll keep an eye out on him, make sure he's pulling his weight before I make a final verdict.

Particularly in white, with me running Emancipation Angel, Kor Skyfisher, Stonecloaker, and Whitemane Lion, I think Harmonic Sliver is going to be good. Having Naturalize on a body could prove very effective, plus he shares colors with both of the other Slivers. White has a lot of Pacifism enchantments, blue has a lot of Mind Control enchantments, and there are some really key artifacts. Again I'll keep a close eye on him and he how he does.

Removing Necrotic from the testing section 'cause it sounds like the verdict on him is pretty straightforward.

I think Harmonic Siver is edged out by competition. Selesnya is so good. Loam Lion, Qasali Pridemage, Hammer, Dryad Militant, both Watchwolves, Enlisted Worm, Armadillo Cloak, ect.

I have always disliked Meadowboon. Blinding beam has been good for me.

Quote from citynoise

I think Harmonic Siver is edged out by competition. Selesnya is so good. Loam Lion, Qasali Pridemage, Hammer, Dryad Militant, both Watchwolves, Enlisted Worm, Armadillo Cloak, ect.

I have always disliked Meadowboon. Blinding beam has been good for me.

Of course I run Pridemage, Hammer, and Militant, they're just so balls deep good. Loam Lion and the Watchwolves don't excite me much 'cause I don't feel like G/W is all that aggressive in this cube; it's so mid-rangey. Militant is good regardless of that, but the other little aggressive G/W guys aren't. In the context of Zoo, there are already a TON of two drop options. I do like Armadillo Cloak a lot, but it's awfully vanilla for a multicolor slot and has the standard two-for-one drawback. Enlisted Wurm, on the other hand, could get me to change my mind. More cascade is always fun...

Anyway, I swapped out Meadowboon for Squadron Hawk and added a bunch of cards to the Watchlist, hopefully I'll get to test a few of them out in the near future.

Quote from PopeJP

I do like Shelter. I was thinking that white could use a few more spells and a few less creatures (just look at that 2 cmc creature slot!). Troubled Healer is another card I'm looking to cram into white, actually. I like the Soltari bros, but sometimes I feel like they make games just annoying to play when they simply can't be interacted with, which is no fun as we all now, so their slots may open some day. The real drawback to that would be losing their interaction with black shadowers...

This entire paragraph is agreeable with me.
Shelter = staple
Troubled healer = Borderline insane
Soltari = why are all my removal spells red? sigh, game 2

Quote from Leelue

This entire paragraph is agreeable with me.
Shelter = staple
Troubled healer = Borderline insane
Soltari = why are all my removal spells red? sigh, game 2

I hate the Super Soltario Brothers because of the WW not the protections. Random hosing on otherwise great cards is ok with me but being a WW card is uhhhg.

So maybe do a nice easy swap, ditch the Soltario Brothers for Troubled Healer and Shelter. Boom.

Also, added a breakdown section that shows how many of various types of cards (and what they are) appear in the cube.

WW is also annoying, but it really sucks when someone is playing GB or UR and can't beat a two drop because all of the removal is in one color.

Quote from Leelue

WW is also annoying, but it really sucks when someone is playing GB or UR and can't beat a two drop because all of the removal is in one color.

I agree. I'm thinking it might be appropriate to cut down on black's Shadowers as well, leaving them only with Dauthi Marauder. I don't want shadow to be too common in black compared to everyone else simply because it does make those cards very uninteractive; leaving black, blue, and white with one each would seem fair to me.

It would give me the opportunity to try out two cards I really want to add in black: Guul Draz Vampire and Smallpox. I think the Vampire could be a solid addition to B/x aggro decks that has mid-game greatness and late-game relevance. In B/x control decks, it can act as a late-game Creeping Tar Pit-like card to finish things up.

On another note, there are a number of green cards that, while I certainly don't think they're bad, just don't excite me. Blastoderm, Grizzly Fate, and Bestial Menace all just seem so blah to me.

Grizzly Fate is absolutely insane. Blastoderm is a massive beating/beater. Some combination of 15damage or 3abyss tiggers is always gonna be good for you. I just recently cut Bestial Menace to try some other cards, we'll see if it stays sidelined, it is solid. I really wish your 6/6 was split up into 2/2, 2/2, 2/2 as opposed to 1/1, 2/2, 3/3 but it is still good.

Edit:I see you run Moan of the Unhallowed. Grizzly Fate is basically twice as good.

Quote from citynoise

Grizzly Fate is absolutely insane. Blastoderm is a massive beating/beater. Some combination of 15damage or 3abyss tiggers is always gonna be good for you. I just recently cut Bestial Menace to try some other cards, we'll see if it stays sidelined, it is solid. I really wish your 6/6 was split up into 2/2, 2/2, 2/2 as opposed to 1/1, 2/2, 3/3 but it is still good.

Edit:I see you run Moan of the Unhallowed. Grizzly Fate is basically twice as good.

Yeah, that's a good point. Like I said, I know it's good, it just didn't excite me. It does seem a little better than all that in hindsight.

I hadn't really thought of Blastoderm as a triple Abyss effect, it's a lot better from that viewpoint. I think I'm mostly just bugged by the fact Calciderm has one more Vanishing counter than him.

I went ahead and dropped Bestial Menace for a green card I've always been in love with and can't believe I forgot to put it in for so long: Tower Above. It's absolutely brutal.

Quote from PopeJP

Yeah, that's a good point. Like I said, I know it's good, it just didn't excite me. It does seem a little better than all that in hindsight.

I hadn't really thought of Blastoderm as a triple Abyss effect, it's a lot better from that viewpoint. I think I'm mostly just bugged by the fact Calciderm has one more Vanishing counter than him.

I went ahead and dropped Bestial Menace for a green card I've always been in love with and can't believe I forgot to put it in for so long: Tower Above. It's absolutely brutal.

Well Vanishing 2 is the same as Fading 1 so Calciderm and Blastoderm both only get 3 swings in. Tower Above looks like it could be sweet. I have recently been pushing in some mor green removal spells.

Quote from citynoise

Well Vanishing 2 is the same as Fading 1 so Calciderm and Blastoderm both only get 3 swings in. Tower Above looks like it could be sweet. I have recently been pushing in some mor green removal spells.

Oh wow, I derped hard on that one. I just assumed Blastoderm also had Vanishing. Seems silly to have two such similar keyworded abilities in existence, though I guess Vanishing is kind of an improvement wording-wise.

I'm really excited to see Tower Above in action. It was absolutely brutal back in Shadowmoor limited and I've enjoyed it in a lot of casual decks since then. I gave green Prey Upon as additional removal, since Beast Within isn't the best for getting rid of creatures.

They messed up with fading, because it doesn't work intuitively. They made vanishing to compensate, like 6 years later.

the assassin won't work in control, because by the time a control deck has the opponent down to 10... what is your 1 drop doing that you didn't ask a 5 drop to do?
Or one of the millions of always evasive guys

Quote from Leelue

They messed up with fading, because it doesn't work intuitively. They made vanishing to compensate, like 6 years later.

the assassin won't work in control, because by the time a control deck has the opponent down to 10... what is your 1 drop doing that you didn't ask a 5 drop to do?
Or one of the millions of always evasive guys

Aside:
Fading uses Fade Counters. Vanishing uses Time Counters. They basically remade/reworded the mechanic so that in TSP all counters of this nature would be Time Counters (Suspend).

I dislike the Bloodied mechanic. Generally by the time it is turned on you are looking to close the gsme out with a Falter/Burn spell(s)/Removal spell. Not just like another dude. I also like my 1drops to be insaneo on t1 if possible.

Quote from citynoise

Aside:
Fading uses Fade Counters. Vanishing uses Time Counters. They basically remade/reworded the mechanic so that in TSP all counters of this nature would be Time Counters (Suspend).

I believe it would be accurate to assume that if vanishing had been done properly the first time, our suspend cards would have vanishing counters or charge counters or suspend counters or something. They wouldn't rename the mechanic if it didn't have a real benefit to understanding the game.

On the Vampire: Yeah, I suppose you guys are right >_> she's just a pet card of mine, so I'll try not to include her based solely on that bias. Bummer. Her not-greatness aside, I still think two of the black Shadowers are going to come out. Smallpox is going to work its way in, as well as something else undecided.

So based on the conversation going on in the general Peasant thread, I think I'm going to cut some Karoos. I've been hesitant about them lately due to upping the Land Destruction aspect anyway, so I think shrinking just down to the Azorius and Dimir ones (maybe Simic too?), which would actually open up some MORE room in the multicolor sections, thus feeding my horrible addiction. I'll swap out the Borderposts for enemy Gates when I can, thus leaving each multicolor pair with at least one CIPT land that taps for either color (allied colors getting Refuges).