I think it's natural that people categorize cards according to how they are actually played as opposed to what happens to be printed on the cards (a bit like Oracle rulings). Thornscape Battlemage cost is in practice something like 2G(R/W), so putting it in the multi-color section makes a world of sense. If you consider as artifacts only those cards with the card type 'artifact', then, sure, Gathan Raiders do not belong and Vedalken Shackles do. But if you consider your artifact section as cards that cost/use only colorless mana and as such can be played in any deck, then suddenly Gathan Raiders is an 'artifact' and the Shackles are blue. *shrug*
I personally also consider it a bit of a stretch to think of Ink-Eyes as a spell, but firstly, it's his cube, and secondly as Shalazar said it doesn't matter one whit as there (usually) are no quota on creatures/non-creatures.
I don't agree with any of the cards being re-cateogorized, but that's me. To add to the confusion, I do want to consider cards like Spectral Procession, Conqueror's Pledge, Call of the Herd, basically all the sorceries that creat tokens as CREATURES. To me, they're no different than Siege-Gang Commander or Deranged Hermit, except that there's no "lord" associated with then when played. How do you guys classify these sorceries?
I don't have a perfect balance between creatures and noncreature cards, so it doesn't matter how I classify them. Weather I consider it a creature or a spell in my mind is irrelevant.
Yeah, I classify them in the cube based on how I classify them when deck building.
And also agree that it doesn't matter. I only did it that way to help me see what an absolute dearth of 1-2 drops I used to have relative to other cubes.
Changing topic slightly, I've been staring at the following cards for a while but can't see any easy way to get them into the cube (i.e. what to cut for them). Which of these guys are worth running in a 60-cards-per-colour cube and what would you cut from my cube to fit them in?
World Queller
Akrasan Squire
Pestermite
Opportunity
Tezzeret (feels unique)
Grab the Reins (feels unique)
Jackal Pup
Keldon Vandals
None of these cards are really necessary. We play a lot of them but we run 75 cards per colour which matters a lot.
For me the best areJackal Pup if you want to support Red as a aggro colour and possibly World Queller if you can stomach to cut something for it (always the hard part).
My cube is 70 cards per color and the only cards on that list that I run are World Queller, Grab the Reins, and Jackal Pup. I like the green 1-drops, but even I couldn't find a way to fit them into a 70 card limit. I know I couldn't do it with only 60. I would probably try to find a way to fit Jackal Pup in if you feel that aggro and midrange need a boost. World Queller is good as well, but I don't think it's necessary. It's just nice to have.
(Rewind > Pestermite): none of the cards is too exciting Aeon Chronicler < Opportunity since both are expensive card draw spells, but being instant is just better than not being able to get countered most of the time. Tezzeret > Trinket Mage: not enough targets imo (yes I know that you are running power)
I could get behind all of these suggestions, except for Akrasan Squire: I don't think there are enough exalted creatures to make it a good option.
I don't think having a lot of exalted creatures is what makes Akrasan Squire cubeable. It's the fact that he comes down on turn one and attacks on turn two as a 2/2.
I don't think having a lot of exalted creatures is what makes Akrasan Squire cubeable. It's the fact that he comes down on turn one and attacks on turn two as a 2/2.
As an early game beater he's just not good enough for me. If I have a deck that cares about attacking for 2 turn 2, I'll be wanting to play lots of creatures, which renders the Squire largely irrelevant except for turn 2 (a 1/1 beater is an oxymoron IMO).
That's why I mentioned having more creatures with exalted, than at least it'd become worthwhile to just attack with one creature (though that is not a very aggro philosophy).
I think that if you want a 1-drop beater for the early game, you're better off playing Steppe Lynx - and I'm not running that. I'd like to give him a try though, I think he might be good for a really aggressive deck.
I disagree. The Squire will stop attacking when you opponent gets a 2/3 or better out, which means that he doesn't become obsolete as many one-drops are wont to do mid-game. You can always top-deck the Squire. He is never redundant. He'll give his bonus to the first strike 2/2 guy you dropped on turn two or whatever you drop on turn three. I have never, ever been sorry to have this card early on. It's actually more frequent in aggro that you attack with just one creature. In the case where you are attacking with lots of creatures, the Squire becomes less than optimal, but can still acquire bonii from whatever Glourious Anthems you have lying around. Still better than Steppe Lynx with no land drop.
The Steppe Lynx, however, only swings for 2 while you are still dropping lands, and makes for a crappy top-deck late game. Not a bad card, but I'd always play Akrasan Squire. Lynx doesn't make it into my 100 white cards, but I'm not sure if Squire would get into the cut-down 60 card version.
There's been some excellent discussion in various threads on supporting aggro in the cube.
Although I had thought of all non-blue colours as aggro, I now see green as non-aggro because of it's mana-bug theme and generally awesome midrange fatties.
Here's an adaption of a post I made in another thread, taking into account that I now regard green as not needing 'aggro affirmative action':
Take the example of a 4 man draft. Here's some assumptions:
1. You want 2 players to be able to draft aggro decks
2. Aggro decks are only 2 colours
3. WBR are the aggro colours (GULAM are not aggro)
4. An aggro deck needs about six aggressive 1-2 drops to be successful (3 per colour)
5. Each player drafts 45 cards
Here's the math for a cube of 480 cards with 60 cards of each colour.
Total Cards being drafted
= (Players in Draft * Cards per Player)
= (4 * 45)
= 180
Number of Aggro cards needed in the draft
= (Number of Aggro Players * Aggro Cards Needed per player)
= (2 * 6)
= 12
Number of Aggro cards needed in the draft per colour (assuming blue isn't aggro)
= (Number of Aggro cards needed in the draft / Number of colours supporting aggro)
= (12 / 3)
= 4
Number of Aggro cards to seed in Aggro colours
= (Total Cards being Drafted / Total Cube Size) * (Number of cards in a colour / Number of Aggro cards needed in the draft per colour)
= (180 / 480) * (60 / 4)
= 10
So I need to devote 10+ slots to really aggressive 1-2 drops in each of white, black and red.
Currently my black is sitting on 9 slots *if* I count Nezumi Graverobber as aggro (I guess he swings for 2...), and I've just ordered a Bloodghast, so I will cross that threshold shortly.
White is comfortably over the limit if you include things like MoM, 8Tails and Meadowgrain.
Hellspark elemental is better than spark elemental. but grim lavamancer and GG are both better.
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Concerning Grim Lavamancer and, similarly, Magus of the Scroll, these both have strong abilities, but they are not meant for the early game so they do not fulfill the same function in an aggro deck as for example Goblin Guide. The abilities are very handy to have if you ran out of gas and need to deal those last few points of damage, but then they're 1/1s and they need to survive a turn before they do anything. That's why I'm reluctant to include them, currently we're running just the Magus and it hasn't had a big impact so far.
I really wish there were more quality red 1 and 2-drops for the early game.
I have no problem dropping either of them early, getting in a few times for one damage, and then having them sit back and activate their abilities after that. I think they're both great (Grim Lavamancer is a 100% auto-include card) and they've both been well above the curve for aggro creature quality.
Some new cards arrived today, but I'm unsure what should come out for them. IF you think that there are other 'worst' cards in my cube that should get the hoof, then speak up.
Timetwister, Capsize, Inkwell Leviathan, Palinchron/Serendib Efreet (either/or depending on what you feel your cube needs) I might lean more towards Efreet here.
Kor Skyfisher, something other than the other two options?
Woodfall Primus, Biarhorn, Noble Hierarch, Vines of Vastwood, Albino Troll
Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Thoughtseize (some may choose Braids over Gatekeeper, but she wasn't that great for us)
Choose three:
Braids Cabal Minion, Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Thoughtsieze, Bloodghast Here, I would keep all of these except the Gatekeeper. Surely, there are other cards to cut.
Some new cards arrived today, but I'm unsure what should come out for them. IF you think that there are other 'worst' cards in my cube that should get the hoof, then speak up.
Choose three:
Braids Cabal Minion, Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Thoughtsieze, Bloodghast
Choose one: Beacon of Destruction, Keldon Vandals
Some of these cards are pretty good. What's going in that makes thee cards come out? (Especially in blue). The bolded ones are the only ones I'd cut for now.
Some of these cards are pretty good. What's going in that makes thee cards come out? (Especially in blue). The bolded ones are the only ones I'd cut for now.
I was thinking the same thing so I checked the cube list. Most of the cuts should probably not be from the cards listed.
The cards at the ends of the lists are the ones that I'm wanting to bring in. If there are other cards in my cube that are worse than those ones I served up, then by all means, suggest them for cutting.
I mean Serendib Efreet looks like it's not quite good enough in blue. But the whole border misprint thing makes me want to put it in for uniqueness. (And errata the casting cost to (U/G)2
The cards at the ends of the lists are the ones that I'm wanting to bring in. If there are other cards in my cube that are worse than those ones I served up, then by all means, suggest them for cutting.
I mean Serendib Efreet looks like it's not quite good enough in blue. But the whole border misprint thing makes me want to put it in for uniqueness. (And errata the casting cost to (U/G)2
I went through the cube, my choices are above. So you just got in Serendib Efreet, Capsize, Inkwell Leviathan & Palinchron and are wondering what to cut for them? I'm a little confused. Serendib Efreet is very good, I'll think you'll be happy with him.
I don't agree with any of the cards being re-cateogorized, but that's me. To add to the confusion, I do want to consider cards like Spectral Procession, Conqueror's Pledge, Call of the Herd, basically all the sorceries that creat tokens as CREATURES. To me, they're no different than Siege-Gang Commander or Deranged Hermit, except that there's no "lord" associated with then when played. How do you guys classify these sorceries?
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And also agree that it doesn't matter. I only did it that way to help me see what an absolute dearth of 1-2 drops I used to have relative to other cubes.
World Queller
Akrasan Squire
Pestermite
Opportunity
Tezzeret (feels unique)
Grab the Reins (feels unique)
Jackal Pup
Keldon Vandals
Wild Dogs
Pouncing Jaguar
Nettle Sentinel
Gahazban Ogre
For me the best areJackal Pup if you want to support Red as a aggro colour and possibly World Queller if you can stomach to cut something for it (always the hard part).
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I could get behind all of these suggestions, except for Akrasan Squire: I don't think there are enough exalted creatures to make it a good option.
I'd include Keldon Vandals in favor of Viashino Heretic and keep the Kami.
I don't think having a lot of exalted creatures is what makes Akrasan Squire cubeable. It's the fact that he comes down on turn one and attacks on turn two as a 2/2.
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As an early game beater he's just not good enough for me. If I have a deck that cares about attacking for 2 turn 2, I'll be wanting to play lots of creatures, which renders the Squire largely irrelevant except for turn 2 (a 1/1 beater is an oxymoron IMO).
That's why I mentioned having more creatures with exalted, than at least it'd become worthwhile to just attack with one creature (though that is not a very aggro philosophy).
I think that if you want a 1-drop beater for the early game, you're better off playing Steppe Lynx - and I'm not running that. I'd like to give him a try though, I think he might be good for a really aggressive deck.
The Steppe Lynx, however, only swings for 2 while you are still dropping lands, and makes for a crappy top-deck late game. Not a bad card, but I'd always play Akrasan Squire. Lynx doesn't make it into my 100 white cards, but I'm not sure if Squire would get into the cut-down 60 card version.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Although I had thought of all non-blue colours as aggro, I now see green as non-aggro because of it's mana-bug theme and generally awesome midrange fatties.
Here's an adaption of a post I made in another thread, taking into account that I now regard green as not needing 'aggro affirmative action':
Currently my black is sitting on 9 slots *if* I count Nezumi Graverobber as aggro (I guess he swings for 2...), and I've just ordered a Bloodghast, so I will cross that threshold shortly.
White is comfortably over the limit if you include things like MoM, 8Tails and Meadowgrain.
And Red will be on 9 once I add Jackal Pup back in and if you classify Hearth Kami as aggressive. But what is tenth? Spark Elemental, Drooling Ogre, Mudbrawler Cohort, Slith Firewalker, Storm Entity? Each of them feels like they are a step down in power and running inferior cards.
Of those, I'd say Spark Elemental.
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I was actually thinking of Hellspark Elemental when I said Spark Elemental (I wouldn't run the latter).
Concerning Grim Lavamancer and, similarly, Magus of the Scroll, these both have strong abilities, but they are not meant for the early game so they do not fulfill the same function in an aggro deck as for example Goblin Guide. The abilities are very handy to have if you ran out of gas and need to deal those last few points of damage, but then they're 1/1s and they need to survive a turn before they do anything. That's why I'm reluctant to include them, currently we're running just the Magus and it hasn't had a big impact so far.
I really wish there were more quality red 1 and 2-drops for the early game.
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Choose four:
Timetwister, Pact of Negation, Aeon Chronicler, Dismiss, Serendib Efreet, Capsize, Inkwell Leviathan, Palinchron
Choose two:
Shining Shoal, Kor Skyfisher, Seht's Tiger
Choose five:
Woodfall Primus, Briarhorn, Noble Hierarch, Vines of Vastwoord, Silhana Ledgewalker, Kalahl Fist of Krosa, Wood Elves, Basking Rootwalla, Albino Troll
Choose three:
Braids Cabal Minion, Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Thoughtsieze, Bloodghast
Choose one:
Beacon of Destruction, Keldon Vandals
Kor Skyfisher, something other than the other two options?
Woodfall Primus, Biarhorn, Noble Hierarch, Vines of Vastwood, Albino Troll
Black Knight, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Thoughtseize (some may choose Braids over Gatekeeper, but she wasn't that great for us)
Keldon Vandals
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Rewind
Right of Replication/Clone
Trinket Mage
Aeon Chronicler
White
Seht's Tiger
Stormfront Pegasus
Green
Silana Ledgewalker
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Wood Elves
Basking Rootwalla
Werebear
Black
Unearth
Vampire Hexmage
Smother
Red
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Cheers,
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Some of these cards are pretty good. What's going in that makes thee cards come out? (Especially in blue). The bolded ones are the only ones I'd cut for now.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I was thinking the same thing so I checked the cube list. Most of the cuts should probably not be from the cards listed.
I mean Serendib Efreet looks like it's not quite good enough in blue. But the whole border misprint thing makes me want to put it in for uniqueness. (And errata the casting cost to (U/G)2
I went through the cube, my choices are above. So you just got in Serendib Efreet, Capsize, Inkwell Leviathan & Palinchron and are wondering what to cut for them? I'm a little confused. Serendib Efreet is very good, I'll think you'll be happy with him.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!