Here's the colour breakdown:
White broad, with a leaning towards aggro (UW control, Wb midrange, Gw midrange, RW aggro) wants: more cheap dudes and disruptive support, has too much of: finishers
Blue: Tutor/Control based (Ug recursion, Ur Tez, UB Reanimate, UW Control) wants: more card drawing, has too much of: finishers
Black: Reanimation or an adjunct to aggro strategices (BG midrange, Rb aggro, Wb aggro, UB Reanimator) wants: better aggro dudes, has too much of: finishers
Red: Aggro, kinda artifact control (Br, WR, Gr Aggro, UR Tez) has too much of: burn, fatties wants more of: hasty guys
Green: Primarily midrange with some aggro (Gr Aggro, Gw, GB, Ug midrange) wants: more 1-2-3CC creatures, has too much of: nothing really.
The deck. With better manlands.
Unfair Combos: Icy / Orb-Gideon. Capsize / Wave
The Sac/Dual land interaction is the prevalent mana fixing mechanism, making getting a single mana of a colour is relatively easy. Because of this all of the Aggro creatures have been restricted to a single coloured mana to make them splashable.
Fast mana and broken equipment were dominating the winston stack, so I purged the mana and cut the equipment back to only 4 copies.
Pivotal Cards thus far (in addition to P9/Equipment/Artifact Removal):
Stoneforge Mystic
Recurring Nightmare
Survival of the Fittest
Genesis
Thanks for the feedback. Those are all cards which are on the cusp of questionableness to me as well, although some of them are sacred cows :~) Kagemaro, Jodah, Godo, Seht and Kaervek have too many special memories to be cut. And prior to M10 rules, Crovax would be on the list as well.
I was tossing up whether to start this as a new thread or make it part of my cube thread. The point is that red as a whole seems a bit like M10. Quite underpowered and really only splashable. That means that great cards like Thunderblust and Rorix don't get played because they ask too much of your manabase.
In my CCC thread it came out that the colour with most of the CCC cards is red. Which is a problem since it has the worst manafixing of any of the colours (counting card draw as manafix).
Part of the problem is that red is trying to support too many subthemes. Here's what I have:
Burn - the major theme of the colour and a very linear one
X spells - a subset of the red burn theme. I've cut back to 5 red X spells
Hasty creatures - effectively a subset of the red burn theme
aggro - my cube doesn't support this well yet because it doesn't have enough good weenies
artifact kill - my cube supports this well. I notice that Usman doesn't have it at all though. Seems like a support to aggro.
Land Destruction - my cube has a smattering of LD, with some overlap on other themes (artifact and burn). LD probably needs to be a complement to the aggro deck.
And on top of that there's iconic red cards like Wildfire, Chandra, Sneak Attack etc that *need* to stay in.
The problem I have is that there aren't enough available slots in the cube to support all of these themes.
Is it worth playing cards like Cryoclasm which can cover multiple themes?
You don't need tons of artifact kill. Just the few that land in multiple of red's themes (like Smash to Smithereens and Hearth Kami).
Rorix should see plenty of play. 3RRR is not that demanding.
Burn, Hastey Dudes, Land Destruction and Sweepers. All the tools needed to make great mono-color decks or splash into other colors. Red is easily one of the more powerful colors in the cube. Try to find as many cards that hit multiple themes, whenever possible. Molten Rain, Smash to Smithereens, Grim Lavamancer, etc...
You write that red have many "themes" as:
Burn, X spells, Hasty creatures, artifact kill, Land Destruction.
Well... The number of artifact kill shouldn't be that big as to call it a theme. The same with Land Destruction. And all these "themes" are all just elements to make a good red aggrodeck work. Here's an example:
Ok, so I've been thinking hard on it for a while, and the two power one drops just get outclassed way too easily to be worth it.
My drafting is mostly solomon drafting or 4 player drafts, and aggro doesn't really get off the ground.
So the only 2 power guys I'm going to run are Goblin Guide, Vampire Lacerator and Carnophage. Bye bye Jackal Pup.
Latest Changes:
- Jackal Pup
+ Aftershock
And as an additional 'cheat' for red, I'm including Flame Javelin as a colourless card. I've seen it played in decks without red mana.
People on this forum have said it again and again. If people aren't drafting something that you know is good, then do it yourself and SHOW them that it's good. If you have 3 people drafting control and 1 drafting agro, you should wreck each of them if the cube is built correctly.
Well, the number of players in a draft is an issue for aggro, because fewer players means fewer cards. So even if the cube is built 'correctly' and you are the only one drafting aggro, you might not get enough aggro creatures to build a 2-color aggro deck. More than two colors might be a bit hard on the manabase... so I think a draft with only 4 players favours midrange/control strategies.
I believe a cube should be built for the number of people usually drafting it.
Well, the number of players in a draft is an issue for aggro, because fewer players means fewer cards. So even if the cube is built 'correctly' and you are the only one drafting aggro, you might not get enough aggro creatures to build a 2-color aggro deck. More than two colors might be a bit hard on the manabase... so I think a draft with only 4 players favours midrange/control strategies.
I believe a cube should be built for the number of people usually drafting it.
If everyone is passing aggro creatures in a four player draft, you should easily be able to play wennie/aggro/burn. The easiest way to do this is to hoard red burn, and let the white weenies table, which they will.
If this means removing the white ones, you have basically killed a very viable archetype.
Sorry, my post was in error. I still have Lions, Elite and Isamru. It's Jackal Pup and the green pups that I'm not running.
My difficulty with white is the two drops. There are both way too many WW 'knights' taking up too much of the cube. I want to put more in but not at the risk of things like Martial Coup.
If everyone is passing aggro creatures in a four player draft, you should easily be able to play wennie/aggro/burn. The easiest way to do this is to hoard red burn, and let the white weenies table, which they will.
My most recent overhaul did put a whole heap of haste creatures into red. And there is still a white weenie theme. And I'm trying out Carnophage and 'phage 2.0. Just not Jackal Pup which is a positive liability in the mid game, and all the green pups.
People on this forum have said it again and again. If people aren't drafting something that you know is good, then do it yourself and SHOW them that it's good. If you have 3 people drafting control and 1 drafting agro, you should wreck each of them if the cube is built correctly.
That's not the problem. The problem is that people are drafting aggro and they always lose.
Ok, now that I have actually seen Thunderblust cast (in another cube), he is fully as awesome as he looks on paper. He's going back in. But what can I cut for him? Ghitu Fire?
And I really want to give Master of the Wild Hunt a go since it's an effect that's not common to green, but can't see much to cut there either. Wood Elves?
Edit: Looking over Usman's cube again I think I'm going to have to make an 'aggro' module to try and support an aggro theme sometimes....
In an attempt to cull my colourless, multicoloured and land sections off to a neat 60 cards each (rigidly enforced for the colours already) I have these guys upon the chopping block. Are they good candidates to cut?
Guardian Idol
Faerie Macabre (could be moved back to black?)
Talisman of Unity (the whole cycle)
Tormod's Crypt
Mind Stone
Mind's Eye
Blazing SPecter
PLaxcaster Frogling
Azorious Guildmage
Stormbind
Necrotic SLiver
Azorious Herald (I love this guy, but I was the only person who played him)
Rafiq of the Many (never played. 5C control just has better options available)
Uril, the Miststalker (I still want to try him....)
Realm Razor
Augury Adept
Heartmender
PLaxmanta
Gelectrode
Rendclaw Trow
Kaervek the Merciless
Reflecting Pool
Barren Moor (the whole cycle)
Flood Plain (the whole cycle)
Desert
Maze of Ith
Exotic Orchard
Kjeldoran Outpost
Those are mostly good cuts. I have a problem with a few.
Mind Stone is pretty awesome. If that's your least favorite artifact I think you can live without it, but I'd look for something else to cut first, such as Fellwar Stone.
Stormbind is crazy good. It's one of the best cards to play against control. It turns every card into an uncounterable Shock. Truly an "answer me or die" card. Cut Tin-Street or Vithian Renegades instead.
Reflecting Pool, Maze of Ith, and Kjeldoran Outpost are all really strong. Reflecting Pool really helps multicolor strategies and Maze of Ith is awesome for control and some midrange decks. I'd certainly cut Mirrodin's Core or Exotic Orchard before I'd cut the Pool or the Maze. The outpost is white's best land and is usable by control or aggro. I draft it very highly if I'm in white.
In terms of the lands
I would leave reflecting pool, k Outpoust & Maze of ith in.
The other lands u can do without.
CITP Fetches are okay if u dont have the ONS/ZEN Fetches as of yet.
Desert and Exotic Orchard can be cut with no issues.
EDIT: went to look at ur list. CITP fetches can definitely come out
Pool, Outpost, Maze stay in
Cut these instead. Vesuva. Not a fan of a land that aint good by itself. Ghost Quarter, I cut it from my cube long ago (per advice from Wtwlf). It wants to be wasteland and strip mine but it aint. LLanowar Reborn, i ddnt even know what this card did. After looking it up, i wish i still didn't know. It's okay i guess. Kinda sucks that CITP. feels like this card from Zendi... Turntimber Grove. but stil meh
I'll second (3rd?) everything the guys above me said. I'll also add that we recently cut Kjeldoran Outpost (for testing purposes only) to try out the white hideaway land (Windbrisk Heights) There's not a doubt in my mind that Outpost is better for aggro and token strategies, but we just want to see how good WH is in the cube. My point being that my cube is getting by just fine without Outpost, but it is one of the best white aligned lands you could be running.
I also really like Blazing Specter in both aggro and midrange builds. I like him because he's right at home in both archetypes.
Windbrisk Heights has been better than Kjeldoran Outpost in my experience, the problem with the outpost is always that it sets you back a land, which means you don't really want to play it before turn 5. Rafiq of the Many is soooo good :P, too bad aggro is not draftable in your cube Gelectrode is not bad actually, whats ur other UR cards? Rendclaw Trow hahhahahaha, victory dance
Private Mod Note
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I am petitioning for the end of: the Mythic rarity, the Planeswalker card type, the post-8th edition card faces, the 2010 rule changes, colorless cards that aren't artifacts or lands, the Legendary supertype, the stack, auras, multicolor cards, artifact creatures, tokens, goblins, merfolk, elves, sorceries, instants, and permanents. Basically, I just want to play with purple contraptions.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
and Chord of Calling or Krosan grip, I don't think you need the grip since you have 3 removal on stick.
I also think nettle sentinel is better than the orgre.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am petitioning for the end of: the Mythic rarity, the Planeswalker card type, the post-8th edition card faces, the 2010 rule changes, colorless cards that aren't artifacts or lands, the Legendary supertype, the stack, auras, multicolor cards, artifact creatures, tokens, goblins, merfolk, elves, sorceries, instants, and permanents. Basically, I just want to play with purple contraptions.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
I'm rethinking the aggro cards (since my cube is frequently winston drafted and boosters are usually only with 4-6 people) as perhaps a separate module.
That said, drafting with the slimmed down cube was a blast!
Continuing with the haste theme of red, what about Kamahl over Ryusei?
And just like there can be too many red X spells, how many is too many white wrath effects?
And just like there can be too many red X spells, how many is too many white wrath effects?
I like to have .5 Wraths show up for every player that is drafting (I feel the same about red X spells BTW). That way if one player is drafting white at a four player draft he can snag two Wraths. That feels about right to me. 3-4 at a four man feels like too much, and will lead to multiple players easily fielding strategies that rely on Wraths.
I like to have .5 Wraths show up for every player that is drafting (I feel the same about red X spells BTW). That way if one player is drafting white at a four player draft he can snag two Wraths. That feels about right to me. 3-4 at a four man feels like too much, and will lead to multiple players easily fielding strategies that rely on Wraths.
This for me too. That is approx 1% of Cube. That is the same percentage of X burn, and I keep my counterspells at 3-4%.
Ok, so that comes out at 5 sweepers for a cube my size (which works if you count Catastrophe as an overcosted Armageddon). I presume that was considering only white sweepers?
And I'll swap in Keljoran Outpost in for LLanowar Reborn. Still can't see what I would take out for Stormbind, but I'll look hard at the gold section.
I don't run some cards deliberately that slow the game down (Moat etc) but don't have any power level restrictions.
All feedback gratefully received.
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Student of Warfare
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Omens
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Blade Splicer
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Paladin en-Vec
1 Soltari Champion
1 Flickerwisp
1 Calciderm
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Spectral Procession
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
1 Decree of Justice
1 Land Tax
1 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Scepter of Dominance
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Armageddon
1 Day of Judgment
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Parallax Wave
1 Ravages of War
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
1 Catastrophe
1 Magical Hacker
1 Gilded Drake
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Man-o'-War
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Willbender
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Morphling
1 Mulldrifter
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Condescend
1 Counterspell
1 Impulse
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Remand
1 Time Walk
1 Crystal Shard
1 Forbid
1 Jace Beleren
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Control Magic
1 Cryptic Command
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Gifts Given
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Treachery
1 Bribery
1 Capsize
1 Time Spiral
1 Upheaval
1 Carnophage
1 Sarcomancy
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Bitterblossom
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Bone Shredder
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Silent Specter
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Nekrataal
1 Skinrender
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
1 Innocent Blood
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Sinkhole
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Night's Whisper
1 Animate Dead
1 Dismember
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Stupor
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Liliana Vess
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Mind Twist
1 Profane Command
1 Goblin Guide
1 Goblin Patrol
1 Goblin Welder
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jackal Pup
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Blood Knight
1 Ember Hauler
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Hearth Kami
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Plated Geopede
1 Fireslinger
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Ghitu Slinger
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Manic Vandal
1 Zo-zu the Punisher
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Ravenous Baboons
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Inferno Titan
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
1 Burst Lightning
1 Firebolt
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Arc Trail
1 Incinerate
1 Magma Jet
1 Pyroclasm
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Molten Rain
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Comet Storm
1 Earthquake
1 Fireball
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Starstorm
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mire Boa
1 River Boa
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Hystrodon
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Ohran Viper
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Blastoderm
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Vengevine
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Thornling
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Life From the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Stonewood Invocation
1 Plow Under
1 Hurricane
1 Porcelain Legionaire
1 Duegar Hedge-Mage
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Loam Lion
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Trygon Predator
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Spiritmonger
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Vindicate
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Chimeric Idol
1 Chimeric Mass
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Masticore
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Duplicant
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Azorius Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
1 Bonesplitter
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Batterskull
1 Black Vise
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Scroll Rack
1 Winter Orb
1 Mimic Vat
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ring of Gix
1 Erratic Portal
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Smokestack
1 Tangle Wire
1 Karn Liberated
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Fetid Heath
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Maze of Ith
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
White:
Unusual cards
Orim's Thunder
Hokori, Dust Drinker
Excluded cards
Disenchant
Yosei, the Morning Star
Blue:
Unusual cards
Magical Hacker !
Gifts Given
Excluded cards
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Enclave Cryptologist
Thieving Magpie
Into the Roil
Repeal
Black:
Unusual cards
Twisted Abomination !
Silent Specter
Excluded cards
Chainer's Edict !
Nantuko Shade
Tombstalker
Sorin Markov
Red:
Unusual cards
Ingot Chewer !
Godo, Bandit Warlord !
Tin Street Hooligan
Excluded cards
Wildfire
Banefire
Keldon Champion
Arc Lightning
Green:
Unusual cards
Thornscape Battlemage
Hystrodon
Excluded cards
Great Sable Stag
Kodama of the North Tree
Harrow
Pouncing Jaguar
Gold:
Unusual cards
Firespout
Fulminator Mage
Excluded cards
Terminate !
Electrolyze !
Psychatog
Simic Sky Swallower
Wall of Denial
Mortify
Prophetic Bolt
Bituminous Blast
Putrid Leech
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Artifacts:
Unusual cards
Prismatic Lens
Bottle Gnomes
Chimeric Idol
Lands:
Unusual cards
Razorverge Thicket
Here's the colour breakdown:
White broad, with a leaning towards aggro (UW control, Wb midrange, Gw midrange, RW aggro) wants: more cheap dudes and disruptive support, has too much of: finishers
Blue: Tutor/Control based (Ug recursion, Ur Tez, UB Reanimate, UW Control) wants: more card drawing, has too much of: finishers
Black: Reanimation or an adjunct to aggro strategices (BG midrange, Rb aggro, Wb aggro, UB Reanimator) wants: better aggro dudes, has too much of: finishers
Red: Aggro, kinda artifact control (Br, WR, Gr Aggro, UR Tez) has too much of: burn, fatties wants more of: hasty guys
Green: Primarily midrange with some aggro (Gr Aggro, Gw, GB, Ug midrange) wants: more 1-2-3CC creatures, has too much of: nothing really.
The deck. With better manlands.
Unfair Combos: Icy / Orb-Gideon. Capsize / Wave
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Winter Orb
1 Impulse
1 Remand
1 Miscalculation
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Scepter of Dominance
1 Ring of Gix
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Parallax Wave
1 Wrath of God
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Cryptic Command
1 Gideon Jura
1 Treachery
1 Capsize
1 Time Spiral
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Mind Stone
1 Azorius Signet
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
4 Plains
1 ss
2 csssssssss
3 sss
4 sssss
5 ss
6 ss
Reanimator.
Unfair Combo: Squee. Also Basilisk Collar / Masticore(s)-wumpus
1 Reanimate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Animate Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Compulsive Research
1 Necromancy
1 Forbid
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Deep Analysis
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Looter Il-Kor
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Masticore
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Shriekmaw
1 Mulldrifter
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
5 Island
6 Swamp
1 sss
2 ccss
3 ssss
4 ccss
5 cccc
An aggro deck with haste and sacrifice themes.
Unfair Combo: Gargadon-Wargear / Firecat and friends.
1 Magma Jet
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Mimic Vat
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Molten Rain
1 Mind Twist
1 Goblin Guide
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Plated Geopede
1 Hearth Kami
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Dark Confidant
1 Manic Vandal
1 Bone Shredder
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Kero of Oxid Ridge
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
8 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 ccc
2 cccccss
3 ccccssss
4 cccs
5 c
An aggro deck with LD, Haste and ramp themes.
Unfair Combo: Loam / Manlands-Mongrel
1 Pillage
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tangle Wire
1 Plow Under
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Kird Ape
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Vengevine
1 Acidic Slime
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Treetop Village
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Forest
3 Mountain
1 ccc
2 cccsss
3 csssss
4 cccccs
5 ccs
The midrange deck with pump and lifegain themes.
Unfair Combo: Stoneforge Mystic
1 Mana Tithe
1 Rancor
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Catastrophe
1 Loam Lion
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 River Boa
1 Mire Boa
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
7 Forest
4 Plains
1 ccsss
2 ccccccsss
3 c
4 cccss
5 cc
6 s
Lifegain offsets powerful but painful black cards.
Unfair Combo: Tax/Rack
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Scroll Rack
1 Balance
1 Vindicate
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Damnation
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Bitterblossom
1 Silent Specter
1 Bane of the Living
1 Exalted Angel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Fetid Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
5 Plains
5 Swamp
1 sss
2 ccsssss
3 cccssss
4 csss
5 c
6 c
The purest aggro deck , with 'geddon and burn the classic support for weenies.
Unfair Combo: Armageddon
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
1 Bonesplitter
1 Black Vise
1 Lightning Helix
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Char
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Ravages of War
1 Armageddon
1 Student of Warfare
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Goblin Patrol
1 Jackal Pup
1 Savannah Lions
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Zo-zu the Punisher
1 Boros Signet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Arid Mesa
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
7 Plains
4 Mountain
1 cccccccsssss
2 cccsss
3 ccs
4 sss
The artifact deck.
Unfair Combo: Tinker-Tez / Artifacts
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mana Drain
1 Condescend
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tinker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Timetwister
1 Gifts Given
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Bribery
1 Upheaval
1 Karn Liberated
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Earthquake
1 Comet Storm
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Precursor Golem
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Izzet Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Mana Vault
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
7 Island
3 Mountain
1 ssss
2 sssss
3 sss
4 css
5 css
6 ccsssss
Turboland.
Unfair Combo: Oracle / Jace, Crystal Witness.
1 Preordain
1 Force Spike
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
1 Time Walk
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Crystal Shard
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trygon Predator
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Mystic Snake
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Duplicant
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
10 Island
2 Forest
1 sssss
2 csssss
3 cccs
4 ccccs
5 ss
6 cs
The Rock, featuring Bloodghast as you've never seen him before.
Unfair Combo: Sacrifice effects / persistent creatures.
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Smokestack
1 Liliana Vess
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Wall of Roots
1 Bloodghast
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Uktabi Orangutang
1 Braids, Cabal minion
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Genesis
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
6 Forest
1 ccsss
2 cccsss
3 cccsss
4 ccs
5 cc
6 ccc
The Sac/Dual land interaction is the prevalent mana fixing mechanism, making getting a single mana of a colour is relatively easy. Because of this all of the Aggro creatures have been restricted to a single coloured mana to make them splashable.
Fast mana and broken equipment were dominating the winston stack, so I purged the mana and cut the equipment back to only 4 copies.
Pivotal Cards thus far (in addition to P9/Equipment/Artifact Removal):
Stoneforge Mystic
Recurring Nightmare
Survival of the Fittest
Genesis
1 Student of Warfare
1 Savannah Lions
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Blade Splicer
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Reveillark
1 Mana Tithe
1 Land Tax
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Balance
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
1 Delver of Secrets
1 Looter Il-Kor
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Mulldrifter
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mana Drain
1 Condescend
1 Mana Leak
1 Time Walk
1 Time Twister
1 Tinker
1 Crystal Shard
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Given
1 Time Spiral
1 Upheaval
1 Carnophage
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Sarcomancy
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Bloodghast
1 Bitterblossom
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Skinrender
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dark Ritual
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Go for the Throat
1 Doom Blade
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Damnation
1 Mind Twist
1 Profane Command
1 Stormkirk Noble
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Plated Geopede
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Inferno Titan
1 Chain Lightning
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Magma Jet
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Staggershock
1 Pillage
1 Molten Rain
1 Char
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Earthquake
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Mire Boa
1 River Boa
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Genesis
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Plow Under
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Vindicate
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Fire // Ice
1 Trygon Predator
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Precursor Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Mind Stone
1 Coalition Relic
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Winter Orb
1 Smokestack
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
Colour breakdown
mono 120
gold 12
colourless 19
land 29
Colour Intensity: Double mana spells
U 7
B 7
R 7
G 5
W 5
Aggro/Any/Control creature splits
W: 9/2/1
U: 1/8/0
B: 5/4/1
R: 6/5/1
G: 0/14/0
M: 4/3/1
C: 2/6/0
Totals: 28/45/4
White Curve
1 cccccssss
2 ccs
3 ccs
4 ccsssss
5 cs
6
Blue Curve
1 ssss
2 cccssss
3 csss
4 cccsss
5 c
6 ss
Black
1 ccccssssss
2 ccsss
3 css
4 cs
5 cs
6 cs
Red
1 cccss
2 cccss
3 csssss
4 cccss
5 c
6 c
Green
1 ccc
2 cccccssss
3 cssss
4 css
5 ccc
6 cs
Multicolour + Colourless
1 css
2 cccsss
3 cccssssss
4 ccccccsss
5 ccc
6 cc
So I've made these removals:
Seize the Soul
Death Denied
Echo Tracer
River Kelpie
Ray of Command
Foresee
Iwamori of the Open Fist
Master of the Wild Hunt
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Kamal, Fist of Krosa
Rolling Spoil
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Voice of All
Windborn Muse
Crovax, Ascended Hero
Tatsumasa, the Dragons Fang
Blitz Hellion
Savage Twister
Wort, the Raidmother
Nucklavee
And these additions:
Channel
force spike
Is Shattering Spree worth running in the cube? How about Shatterstorm? Shimian Specter?
In my CCC thread it came out that the colour with most of the CCC cards is red. Which is a problem since it has the worst manafixing of any of the colours (counting card draw as manafix).
Part of the problem is that red is trying to support too many subthemes. Here's what I have:
Burn - the major theme of the colour and a very linear one
X spells - a subset of the red burn theme. I've cut back to 5 red X spells
Hasty creatures - effectively a subset of the red burn theme
aggro - my cube doesn't support this well yet because it doesn't have enough good weenies
artifact kill - my cube supports this well. I notice that Usman doesn't have it at all though. Seems like a support to aggro.
Land Destruction - my cube has a smattering of LD, with some overlap on other themes (artifact and burn). LD probably needs to be a complement to the aggro deck.
And on top of that there's iconic red cards like Wildfire, Chandra, Sneak Attack etc that *need* to stay in.
The problem I have is that there aren't enough available slots in the cube to support all of these themes.
Is it worth playing cards like Cryoclasm which can cover multiple themes?
You don't need tons of artifact kill. Just the few that land in multiple of red's themes (like Smash to Smithereens and Hearth Kami).
Rorix should see plenty of play. 3RRR is not that demanding.
Burn, Hastey Dudes, Land Destruction and Sweepers. All the tools needed to make great mono-color decks or splash into other colors. Red is easily one of the more powerful colors in the cube. Try to find as many cards that hit multiple themes, whenever possible. Molten Rain, Smash to Smithereens, Grim Lavamancer, etc...
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Burn, X spells, Hasty creatures, artifact kill, Land Destruction.
Well... The number of artifact kill shouldn't be that big as to call it a theme. The same with Land Destruction. And all these "themes" are all just elements to make a good red aggrodeck work. Here's an example:
Lightning bolt (Burn)
Chain Lightning (Burn)
Magma Jet (Burn)
Flame Javelin (Burn)
Pillage (LD + Artifact Destruction)
Incinerate (Burn)
Fire Blast (Burn)
Fireball (Burn + X-spell)
Smash to Smithereens (Artifact Destruction + Burn)
Molten Rain (LD + Burn)
Jackal Pup (Creature)
Magus of the Scroll (Creature + Burn)
Mogg Fanatic (Creature + Burn)
Hearth Kami (Creature + Artifact Destruction)
Slith Firewalker (Creature + Haste)
Keldon Marauders (Creature + Burn)
Blood Knight (Creature)
Hellspark Elemental (Creature + Haste)
Hell's Thunder (Creature + Haste)
Ball Lightning (Creature + Haste)
Avalanche Riders (Creature + Haste + LD)
Keldon Champion (Creature + Haste + Burn)
Siege-Gang Commander (Creature + Burn)
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I've added the Mirrordin Talismen as well to completely the artifact two drop blowout.
Where do people think is the next step?
My drafting is mostly solomon drafting or 4 player drafts, and aggro doesn't really get off the ground.
So the only 2 power guys I'm going to run are Goblin Guide, Vampire Lacerator and Carnophage. Bye bye Jackal Pup.
Latest Changes:
- Jackal Pup
+ Aftershock
And as an additional 'cheat' for red, I'm including Flame Javelin as a colourless card. I've seen it played in decks without red mana.
People on this forum have said it again and again. If people aren't drafting something that you know is good, then do it yourself and SHOW them that it's good. If you have 3 people drafting control and 1 drafting agro, you should wreck each of them if the cube is built correctly.
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
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I believe a cube should be built for the number of people usually drafting it.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
If everyone is passing aggro creatures in a four player draft, you should easily be able to play wennie/aggro/burn. The easiest way to do this is to hoard red burn, and let the white weenies table, which they will.
Sorry, my post was in error. I still have Lions, Elite and Isamru. It's Jackal Pup and the green pups that I'm not running.
My difficulty with white is the two drops. There are both way too many WW 'knights' taking up too much of the cube. I want to put more in but not at the risk of things like Martial Coup.
My most recent overhaul did put a whole heap of haste creatures into red. And there is still a white weenie theme. And I'm trying out Carnophage and 'phage 2.0. Just not Jackal Pup which is a positive liability in the mid game, and all the green pups.
That's not the problem. The problem is that people are drafting aggro and they always lose.
And I really want to give Master of the Wild Hunt a go since it's an effect that's not common to green, but can't see much to cut there either. Wood Elves?
Edit: Looking over Usman's cube again I think I'm going to have to make an 'aggro' module to try and support an aggro theme sometimes....
In an attempt to cull my colourless, multicoloured and land sections off to a neat 60 cards each (rigidly enforced for the colours already) I have these guys upon the chopping block. Are they good candidates to cut?
Guardian Idol
Faerie Macabre (could be moved back to black?)
Talisman of Unity (the whole cycle)
Tormod's Crypt
Mind Stone
Mind's Eye
Blazing SPecter
PLaxcaster Frogling
Azorious Guildmage
Stormbind
Necrotic SLiver
Azorious Herald (I love this guy, but I was the only person who played him)
Rafiq of the Many (never played. 5C control just has better options available)
Uril, the Miststalker (I still want to try him....)
Realm Razor
Augury Adept
Heartmender
PLaxmanta
Gelectrode
Rendclaw Trow
Kaervek the Merciless
Reflecting Pool
Barren Moor (the whole cycle)
Flood Plain (the whole cycle)
Desert
Maze of Ith
Exotic Orchard
Kjeldoran Outpost
Mind Stone is pretty awesome. If that's your least favorite artifact I think you can live without it, but I'd look for something else to cut first, such as Fellwar Stone.
Stormbind is crazy good. It's one of the best cards to play against control. It turns every card into an uncounterable Shock. Truly an "answer me or die" card. Cut Tin-Street or Vithian Renegades instead.
Reflecting Pool, Maze of Ith, and Kjeldoran Outpost are all really strong. Reflecting Pool really helps multicolor strategies and Maze of Ith is awesome for control and some midrange decks. I'd certainly cut Mirrodin's Core or Exotic Orchard before I'd cut the Pool or the Maze. The outpost is white's best land and is usable by control or aggro. I draft it very highly if I'm in white.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
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I would leave reflecting pool, k Outpoust & Maze of ith in.
The other lands u can do without.
CITP Fetches are okay if u dont have the ONS/ZEN Fetches as of yet.
Desert and Exotic Orchard can be cut with no issues.
EDIT: went to look at ur list. CITP fetches can definitely come out
Pool, Outpost, Maze stay in
Cut these instead.
Vesuva. Not a fan of a land that aint good by itself.
Ghost Quarter, I cut it from my cube long ago (per advice from Wtwlf). It wants to be wasteland and strip mine but it aint.
LLanowar Reborn, i ddnt even know what this card did. After looking it up, i wish i still didn't know. It's okay i guess. Kinda sucks that CITP. feels like this card from Zendi... Turntimber Grove. but stil meh
Urborg can go, if u had to make another cut. It's just okay.
I like Reflecting Pool over Mirrodin's Core.
Why don't u have City of Brass or Grand Coliseum in? Those two should be in somewhere somehow.
Opm's Cube on MTGS
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I also really like Blazing Specter in both aggro and midrange builds. I like him because he's right at home in both archetypes.
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Gelectrode is not bad actually, whats ur other UR cards?
Rendclaw Trow hahhahahaha, victory dance
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
City of Brass was weak for me. My cube is high on colour fixing if you want to get it, and the cumulative life loss from COB gets old.
And I'll try to get Blazing Specter back in over Vithian Renegades.
And I want to add three green 2 power 1 mana guys when I next order cards.
out: Ghost Quarter, in:Reflecting Pool
out: Vithian Renegades, in: Blazing Specter
out: Fellwar Stone, in:Mind Stone
And I can't find a cut for Stormbind. It just hasn't played well for me, since generally your cards are better than shocks.
I'll update the original post later tonight.
Now what cuts can I make in green to fit in Wild Dogs, Ghazban Ogre and Pouncing Jaguar?
and Chord of Calling or Krosan grip, I don't think you need the grip since you have 3 removal on stick.
I also think nettle sentinel is better than the orgre.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
That said, drafting with the slimmed down cube was a blast!
Continuing with the haste theme of red, what about Kamahl over Ryusei?
And just like there can be too many red X spells, how many is too many white wrath effects?
I like to have .5 Wraths show up for every player that is drafting (I feel the same about red X spells BTW). That way if one player is drafting white at a four player draft he can snag two Wraths. That feels about right to me. 3-4 at a four man feels like too much, and will lead to multiple players easily fielding strategies that rely on Wraths.
This. I would make sure to keep all of these in for sure.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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This for me too. That is approx 1% of Cube. That is the same percentage of X burn, and I keep my counterspells at 3-4%.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
And I'll swap in Keljoran Outpost in for LLanowar Reborn. Still can't see what I would take out for Stormbind, but I'll look hard at the gold section.