About my Cube
Size: 460
Breakdown:62 per colour, 60 colourless, 90 multicolour
Average Draft: 5-7 players
Powered: Yes
Un-Cards: Yes, Chaos Orb played as per Oracle text
Banned Cards: No
Standard or Multiplayer: Standard, but with a 17 card "Multiplayer Addendum" of cards added in for multiplayer games. These cards are marked on the face of the sleeve and are not used in duel drafts.
Snow Cube: No
Sideboards: Usually, but no "sideboard only" cards
Proxies?: No
Functional Reprints?: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance: No
Gold "As Printed" or "As Played": As Played
Cube CMC: 3.08
Quirks: No planeswalkers, using 6th edition rules (nothing against Planeswalkers or M10 rules, just we stopped playing anything other than Cube around the start of Lorwyn Block)
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I originally had a pretty detailed and lengthy post written about cards on your "watch list" in your spreadsheet that are worthy of inclusion, but the power went out around here just as I was finishing up, so oh well...
BTW, that is a pretty sweet Spreadsheet you've created there.
The quick list without any descriptions/reasonings:
Sorry I don't have better descriptions as for why these cards should be included, but typing it up twice just grinds me a bit too much to do so at this time. I may come back later and revisit this to be more helpful. That being said, your cube looks pretty solid as a baseline and should have a pretty high power level when played from the looks of it.
While all these cards are okay, they a little loose for a cube that's only 550 cards. Most of them can be replaced with cards that would have a bigger impact on the cube.
It's a solid list for a first draft though... one of the best I've seen.
Thanks for the responses and encouragement! This is not exactly a first draft: the cube has seen some significant play in its previous iterations. As you can tell from some cards on the spreadsheet, some of our early choices were pretty daft. At the weekend, however, I went to a legacy tournament and traded away a bunch of revised duals and onslaught fetches. I was trading 3 out of 4 from playsets, as the only MtG I play now is Cube or EDH. It was very pleasing to see how much those cards had gone up in value since I bought them! Anyway, I traded for stuff I needed for the cube and got it approaching respectability.
Darkmindtone suggested additions:
Obviously, as they are on my watch list these are all cards I considered. I wish I could gather up those missing electrons from your longer post!
Planeswalkers: Perhaps the greatest omission, there are none of these in our cube. For various reasons, I and my fellow cubers stopped going to drafts/tournaments during Time Spiral block. This means we missed out on both playing and picking up this shiny new card type. They are ubiquitous amongst serious cubes, so I don't doubt their worthiness. We would have to figure out how to draft and play them, though, plus they are all pretty pricey. The plan is to add them as they rotate out of Standard and/or we get bored with the cube and need a new card type to play with.
Ravages of War/Rout: Catastrophe fills the slot of extra Wrath/2nd Amageddon. I feel I have enough White mass removal already.
White 3 drops: My white 3-drop creatures are a little sparse. I particularly like the Flickerwisp and Soltari Champion, as they have a single W in their casting cost.
Careful Consideration/Foresee/Concentrate/Tidings/Opportunity: I'm still trying to get a feel of how much blue card draw/card selection is the right amount. Careful Consideration is the first of these I would put back in, as it can be played as an instant and supports my reanimator theme.
Confiscate/Persuasion/Take Posession: Similarly, how many stealing cards does a 550 card cube need? I love these effects, particularly in multiplayer, but cut back a little on them. Would you recommend any of these over, for example, Dominate?
Court Hussar: This guy keeps coming in and out. I love comes into play effects, especially in blue and white. Our plan is to keep the cube small, but have a "Substitutions Bench" to mix things up and give a bit of variety. This guy is on that bench.
Juzam Djinn: We have Plague Sliver instead. I like how the Sliver interacts with the Shapeshifters in the cube, making it more intersting (though less evocative) than the Djinn.
My red definitely needs attention: messy mana curve, sub-par choices, etc. I think this is because I find it a boring colour (my least favourite in MtG) so when I allocate my card buying budget I have tended to buy cards in other colours that are more interesting than yet another do X damage spell. I need more discipline in the colour that hates discipline.
Tarmogoyf, Chameleon Colossus, Kodama of the North Tree, Cloudthresher, Plow Under: These should be in the cube. I am funny about proxies: I am happy to proxy for cards that are hard to get and super costly, e.g. power 9, or for older cards where the oracle text differs greatly from the printed text, but I baulk at buying more recent cards that I could one day see myself buying for real, particularly if they might drop in price once they rotate out of standard. Utterly irrational I know, but there you go.
Behemoth Sledge: This would be swapped for Armadillo Cloak. Which is better? I am inclined to go for the equipment, as its reusability in multiplayer outweighs the fact it is slower.
Rav Duals: These are kind of all or none, so represent a significant investment. Maybe I just need to save up a few months magic investment and take the plunge.
Rishadan Port: I have a playset of these and have no idea why one is not in the cube.
Mutavault: Cost issues again. How much do you get on ebay for a kidney? I have a full playset but only need one to play Cube.
Shelldock Isle: I have tried to keep the coloured activation lands even. Maybe I'll try this instead of Faerie Conclave.
wtwlf123 suggested some weaker cards:
These cards fall into two broad camps, cards that are bad in duel but great in multiplayer, and cards that should probably be cut.
Beloved Chaplain is a bit of a pet card. He has uses as he can block all day (if attackers have no evasion) and is unblockable (and can do great things with equipment like SoFaI or SoLaS). And he just seems like such a nice guy with his quiet dignity, pet hummingbird and cue-ball noggin. He should go. Bye bye, baldie.
Furnace of Rath: This card is, in my opinion, vital for Red in multiplayer. It scales up all the burn helping Red to compete, and it ends games more quickly, altering the game to be plyed more on Red's terms.
Copper Myr: Entry error. I'd better check what this card should have been.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Kher Keep: These are attempts to keep coloured activation cards balanced. I should probably just not bother trying to do this unless you have better Black or red suggestions.
Thanks for the feedback. As well as the outright errors it is good to be challenged on card choices. I don't want my cube to be overly clogged with pet cards or inclusions that are only good in perfect circumstances.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Kher Keep: These are attempts to keep coloured activation cards balanced. I should probably just not bother trying to do this unless you have better Black or red suggestions.
I did this with my cube as well. I have two of each color specific non basic land. Here's what I run.
In B/X anything Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is such an amazing mana fixer. And Ghitu Encampment can be so good. A 2/1 first striker is nothing to laugh at. Especially in an aggro R/X deck. You might also thinking about Keldon Megaliths in that slot.
I don't want my cube to be overly clogged with pet cards or inclusions that are only good in perfect circumstances.
What about cards that are only good in multiplayer? If you ever do a heads-up draft, you don't want your draft to be clogged with cards that are terrible outside of multiplayer either.
@Calibretto: Thanks, I'll give those lands a try. They're not too pricey so I'll give them a go. The point about helping black is a good one, as several cards have heavy B in the casting cost. Does it allow you to run cards like Consume Spirit?
@wtwlf123: A valid point. The converse is also true, however. Many cards that are excellent in duel do not scale well to multiplayer, for example weenies, counterspells, targeted discard, burn and sorcery speed removal. My options would seem to be:
1) Accept that there will be some cards that go late if they are intended for the "other" format (what we do now).
2) Only have cards that are good in both duel and multiplayer (means missing out on a lot of great stuff).
3) Have a "transformational sideboard" swapping cards for the format we are playing (a hassle).
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
1) Accept that there will be some cards that go late if they are intended for the "other" format (what we do now).
2) Only have cards that are good in both duel and multiplayer (means missing out on a lot of great stuff).
3) Have a "transformational sideboard" swapping cards for the format we are playing (a hassle).
Any suggestions?
This is something I've wrestled with as well. My solution for the time being is #1, but the pie-in-the-sky answer is "just make two cubes".
4) Have some way of showing what cards are meant for multiplayer (A little sticker on the cards for instance). When they are drawn in single player drafts you just draw another one instead.
I would suggest just building the best cube you can possibly build. The cube is supposed to be a best of the best (of sorts). It's very possible to play multiplayer or Winston draft with that set up and still have a ton of fun.
@wingedcoyote: Mmm, pie... This would of course be the ideal. If you could find a way of explaining the credit card statements to my wife to her satisfaction then I will take this approach.
@bondafog: I quite like this idea. As an aside, when I used to play in limited tourneys I marked my sleeves (on the faces obviously) with a permanent marker so I could easily identify what cards I had sided in. Tht idea I got from the gold bordered decks which had the sideboard cards marked with a little SB symbol. It sounds, though as if you are suggesting, the cards would effectively cycle for free! I think I would have it that if there was a multiplayer card in one of the boosters, that player could reveal it and draw another at random. If they wanted to leave it in or pick it that would be up to them, but it would probably be a sub-par card for duel.
@Calibretto: I agree that the cube should be the best of the best. "Best", however, is context dependent. Some cards that are great in duel are much worse in multiplayer. For example, Dark Confidant would typically be a higher pick than Graveborn Muse for duel, but in long multiplayer games (probably with a higher mana curve) he may well kill you before a player does.
At the moment I am liking bondafog's plan. I think I will aim for a fairly standard cube (perhaps favouring cards that are even better in multiplayer, like Taurean Mauler) but add in a handful of marked cards that are only used in multiplayer.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
The cube has been updated over the weekend, thanks to a bit of trading in response to suggestions.
Red has seen the most cards swapped and is now playing a lot better. Other changes have been to get rid of cute cards and replace them with more powerful ones. There have also been a few experimental swaps, just to tr out some cards that seem interesting.
I have logged the changes and updated my lists on the 1st post.
Bondafog's suggestion for Multiplayer cards worked well. We started out as an even number (6) and drafted regularly, but if you had a "MP" (written on the sleeve in permanent marker) card in your booster you could discard it and add a replacement. When one of our group had to leave after that draft, we redrafted for multiplayer (star format) but you were not allowed to discard the "MP" cards. This was very easy to get, quick to implement and we were happy with the result.
Because of this we may add back in some of the more egregious multiplayer cards (e.g. Blatant Thievery) which would be rubbish in duel. There is still some debate as to where the line is drawn for the MP cards, so this will take a bit more working. The aim would be to have maybe 5 cards in each section that are MP, and the rest be a fairly traditional power cube. So far it is looking like a good plan.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I have decided to really rework my cube, not only adding some cards but also cutting back for smaller numbers. I'm going to post my plan a section at a time, starting with white, as I hope this will make it easier to get feedback.
Obvious omissions are either for expensive new cards (e.g Baneslayer), planeswalkers (which we don't play - yet), or my idiocy which you can put me right on! I thinkt the "definites" are pretty definite, but go ahead and argue me wrong.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Agree with Usman, except that Momentary Blink is a staple. You can't leave that card out. If you really need the space in White, run it in U/W instead.
Also, I would run Griffin Guide very high personally. Sometimes you just drop it on an early creature and win if they don't draw a removal. Even then, you keep a Leonin Skyhunter.
Galepowder Mage is much better than Commander Eesha. Better body for the cost, easier cost, and a very easily abusable blink effect. Any comes-into-play effect on a creature can trigger every turn, to net you lands, kill creatures or whatever.
Galepowder Mage is much better than Commander Eesha. Better body for the cost, easier cost, and a very easily abusable blink effect. Any comes-into-play effect on a creature can trigger every turn, to net you lands, kill creatures or whatever.
I completely agree. People speak highly of Eesha, but I don't see it in a format filled with spot removal and sweepers. Galepowder at worst is a 3/3 flyer that an opponent needs two flyers to block.
Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely go with Harm's Way: Condemn always just felt like a bad Swords to Plowshares and this gives me something different.
I am keeping Momentary Blink - it may be better for us as we have not yet changed over to the M10 rules.
Thanks for the 3drop suggestions. I am going to give Soltari Crusader a try as it is less white-intensive and I think shadow>3/3 on the attack.
Yes I need to get a Baneslater. In the meantime Archon of Justice will be a placeholder.
I'm including Galepowder Mage over Eesha. I just feel that 2 power is not enough in a 4-drop, and the Mage is more interesting.
As before, I am wanting to make better use of the cards I already have rather than add new ones, but if there are any terrible omissions then please let me know.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Sorry, I missed off the [SARCASM] tags. The stupidly cheap proxy was an error. Thanks for pointing it out.
I think the twin looter effects could work quite nicely, particularly as I am wanting to support reanimator in black. I'd been put off including both as I tend to avoid functional reprints, but I think there is a strong argument to include both.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Wow, there were som pretty painful cuts there. Court Hussar I will probably add to the U/W section.
So, Black.
In black, I am wanting reanimator to be a viable strategy, and otherwise for it to be about 30:70 aggro:control. Part of me thinks that black should reward commitment
Black
0cc
Definitely:
Slaughter Pact
Snuff Out
I think both are worthy of places, let me know if you disagree!
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Black Knight, Dark Confidant,Withered Wretch. Those should be enough - add more 2cc elsewhere. Hand of Cruelty if you really want another.
All those spells plus Doom Blade are worth including IMO. Terror, Chainer's Edict, Night's Whisper are my favourites.
3cc:
Mercenary Knight >>>> Hidden Horror. Also add Bone Shredder. Yawgmoth's Will and Sudden Death for the spells (again, I run ALL of these)
4cc:
Braids and Mirri the Cursed. I would add another lower CC spell over Grinning Demon for your smaller Cube.
Barter in Blood is good, Mutilate also. Dread Return is poor, run Diabolic Servitude instead.
5cc:
Easily Silent Specter, Puppeteer Clique and Wumpus/Kagemaro. Vampire and Skinthinner are terrible, and Plaguelord loses a lot of its allure post-M10.
Yeah, those spells are solid. I don't personally run Beacon (I prefer Corpse Dance, though the latter serves a different role).
6cc:
Twisted Abomination is alriiiight... you could add better elsewhere I think (more of those delicious 2cc spells). Profane Command is great, but Mind Twist and Mind Shatter in the same Cube is sadmaking, although they're both good. So I guess that leaves Death Cloud, although it's very black mana intensive.
About my Cube
Size: 460
Breakdown:62 per colour, 60 colourless, 90 multicolour
Average Draft: 5-7 players
Powered: Yes
Un-Cards: Yes, Chaos Orb played as per Oracle text
Banned Cards: No
Standard or Multiplayer: Standard, but with a 17 card "Multiplayer Addendum" of cards added in for multiplayer games. These cards are marked on the face of the sleeve and are not used in duel drafts.
Snow Cube: No
Sideboards: Usually, but no "sideboard only" cards
Proxies?: No
Functional Reprints?: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance: No
Gold "As Printed" or "As Played": As Played
Cube CMC: 3.08
Quirks: No planeswalkers, using 6th edition rules (nothing against Planeswalkers or M10 rules, just we stopped playing anything other than Cube around the start of Lorwyn Block)
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Student of Warfare
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Lone Missionary
1 Mistral Charger
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wall of Omens
1 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Pianna, Nomad Captain
1 Soltari Champion
1 Spectral Procession
1 Exalted Angel
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Restoration Angel
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Disenchant
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Armageddon
1 Day of Judgment
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Parallax Wave
1 Wrath of God
1 Catastrophe
1 Decree of Justice
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Kor Haven
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Gilded Drake
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Aether Adept
1 Man-o'-War
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Willbender
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Morphling
1 Mulldrifter
1 Consecreted Sphinx
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Remand
1 Time Walk
1 Crystal Shard
1 Forbid
1 Frantic Search
1 Psionic Blast
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Topsy Turvy
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Control Magic
1 Cryptic Command
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Opposition
1 Future Sight
1 Treachery
1 Time Spiral
1 Upheaval
1 Condescend
1 Academy Ruins
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Carnophage
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Gravecrawler
1 Sarcomancy
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Pack Rat
1 Bone Shredder
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Nekrataal
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Skinrender
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Tombstalker
1 Griselbrand
1 Snuff Out
1 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
1 Entomb
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Exhume
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Sinkhole
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Barter in Blood
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Damnation
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Living Death
1 Mind Twist
1 Profane Command
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Goblin Guide
1 Goblin Patrol
1 Goblin Welder
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jackal Pup
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Ash Zealot
1 Fireslinger
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
1 Hearth Kami
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Plated Geopede
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Torch Fiend
1 Manic Vandal
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Keldon Champion
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Inferno Titan
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Fireblast
1 Burst Lightning
1 Chain Lightning
1 Faithless Looting
1 Firebolt
1 Firestorm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Reckless Charge
1 Arc Trail
1 Incinerate
1 Magma Jet
1 Pyroclasm
1 Searing Blaze
1 Searing Spear
1 Blast from the Past
1 Char
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Molten Rain
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wildfire
1 Devil's Play
1 Earthquake
1 Starstorm
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Albino Troll
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Lotus Cobra
1 River Boa
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Ohran Viper
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Blastoderm
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Vengevine
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Thornling
1 Thragtusk
1 Vorapede
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Berserk
1 Fastbond
1 Rancor
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Channel
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Ice Storm
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Creeping Mold
1 Natural Order
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Treetop Village
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Masticore
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Bonesplitter
1 Skullclamp
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Black Lotus
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Black Vise
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Chaos Orb
1 Scroll Rack
1 Winter Orb
1 Mimic Vat
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ring of Gix
1 Tangle Wire
1 Erratic Portal
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Smokestack
1 Mindslaver
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Wasteland
WU
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Tundra
UB
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
BR
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Rakdos Shred-Freak
1 Terminate
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
RG
1 Kird Ape
1 Stormbind
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
GW
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Loam Lion
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
WB
1 Lingering Souls
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Vindicate
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
BG
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Spiritmonger
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Verdant Catacombs
GU
1 Mystic Snake
1 Simic Signet
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Trygon Predator
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Tropical Island
UR
1 Fire // Ice
1 Izzet Charm
1 Izzet Signet
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Volcanic Island
WR
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Lightning Helix
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Battlefied Forge
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 World Queller
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Rhystic Study
1 Evacuation
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Cunning Lethemancer
1 Grave Pact
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Insurrection
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Spike Weaver
1 Verdant Force
1 Decimate
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
1 Mind's Eye
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
BTW, that is a pretty sweet Spreadsheet you've created there.
The quick list without any descriptions/reasonings:
-Mana Tithe
-Savannah Lions
-Flickerwisp
-Scepter of Dominance
-Soltari Champion/Pianna, Nomad Captain/Celestrial Crusader
-Elspeth, Knight Errant
-Parallax Wave
-Ravages of War
-Rout
-Force Spike
-Pact of Negation
-Ancestral Visions
-Misdirection
-Court Hussar
-Jace Berelin
-Serendib Efreet
-Careful Consideration/Foresee/Concentrate/Tidings/Opportunity
-Collective Restraint
-Glen-Elendra Archmage
-Lu-Xun, Scholar General
-Venser, Shaper Servant
-Ethersworn Adjudicator
-Confiscate/Persuasion/Take Posession
-Repeal
-Carnophage/Sarcomancy
-Cabal Interrogator/Scepter of Fugue
-Dark Confidant
-Corpse Dance/Living Death
-Juzam Djinn
-Persecute
-Desolation Angel
-Liliana Vess
-Predatory Nightstalker/Wei Assassins
-Laquatus' Champion
-Chain Lightning
-Skred
-Ball Lightning/Blistering Firecat/Keldon Champion/Skizzik/Thunderblust
-Chandra Nalaar
-Crater Hellion
-Rakka Mar
-Ravenous Baboons
-Siege-Gang Commander
-Burning of Xinye
-Bogardan Hellkite/Akroma Angel of Fury
-Banefire/Demonfire/other "X"-spells
-Rolling Earthquake
-Fyndhorn Elves
-Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
-Tarmogoyf
-Chameleon Colossus
-Garruk Wildspeaker
-Nantuko Vigilante
-Arashi, the Sky Asunder
-Kodama of the North Tree/Cloudthresher
-Plow Under/Primal Command
-Maelstrom Pulse
-Lord of Extinction
-Ashenmoor Gouger
-Murderous Redcap
-Broodmate Dragon
-Behemoth Sledge
-Giant Solifuge
-Vithian Renegades
-Ajani Vengeant
-Wydwen, the Biting Gale
-Tangle Wire
-Vedalken Shackles
-Erratic Portal
-Grim Monolith
-Thran Dynamo
-Rav Duals (cut cyclers and some other random lands for space possibly)
-Mutavault
-Rishadan Port
-Shelldock Isle
Sorry I don't have better descriptions as for why these cards should be included, but typing it up twice just grinds me a bit too much to do so at this time. I may come back later and revisit this to be more helpful. That being said, your cube looks pretty solid as a baseline and should have a pretty high power level when played from the looks of it.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
This is a pretty strong list for a new cube. I'd like to point out a few things...
While all these cards are okay, they a little loose for a cube that's only 550 cards. Most of them can be replaced with cards that would have a bigger impact on the cube.
It's a solid list for a first draft though... one of the best I've seen.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Darkmindtone suggested additions:
Obviously, as they are on my watch list these are all cards I considered. I wish I could gather up those missing electrons from your longer post!
Planeswalkers: Perhaps the greatest omission, there are none of these in our cube. For various reasons, I and my fellow cubers stopped going to drafts/tournaments during Time Spiral block. This means we missed out on both playing and picking up this shiny new card type. They are ubiquitous amongst serious cubes, so I don't doubt their worthiness. We would have to figure out how to draft and play them, though, plus they are all pretty pricey. The plan is to add them as they rotate out of Standard and/or we get bored with the cube and need a new card type to play with.
Ravages of War/Rout: Catastrophe fills the slot of extra Wrath/2nd Amageddon. I feel I have enough White mass removal already.
White 3 drops: My white 3-drop creatures are a little sparse. I particularly like the Flickerwisp and Soltari Champion, as they have a single W in their casting cost.
Parallax Wave/Savannah Lions: Still need to get hold of these.
Careful Consideration/Foresee/Concentrate/Tidings/Opportunity: I'm still trying to get a feel of how much blue card draw/card selection is the right amount. Careful Consideration is the first of these I would put back in, as it can be played as an instant and supports my reanimator theme.
Confiscate/Persuasion/Take Posession: Similarly, how many stealing cards does a 550 card cube need? I love these effects, particularly in multiplayer, but cut back a little on them. Would you recommend any of these over, for example, Dominate?
Court Hussar: This guy keeps coming in and out. I love comes into play effects, especially in blue and white. Our plan is to keep the cube small, but have a "Substitutions Bench" to mix things up and give a bit of variety. This guy is on that bench.
Dark Confidant: This is one to get.
Juzam Djinn: We have Plague Sliver instead. I like how the Sliver interacts with the Shapeshifters in the cube, making it more intersting (though less evocative) than the Djinn.
My red definitely needs attention: messy mana curve, sub-par choices, etc. I think this is because I find it a boring colour (my least favourite in MtG) so when I allocate my card buying budget I have tended to buy cards in other colours that are more interesting than yet another do X damage spell. I need more discipline in the colour that hates discipline.
Tarmogoyf, Chameleon Colossus, Kodama of the North Tree, Cloudthresher, Plow Under: These should be in the cube. I am funny about proxies: I am happy to proxy for cards that are hard to get and super costly, e.g. power 9, or for older cards where the oracle text differs greatly from the printed text, but I baulk at buying more recent cards that I could one day see myself buying for real, particularly if they might drop in price once they rotate out of standard. Utterly irrational I know, but there you go.
Nantuko Vigilante: Very cube worthy, but is out because of Indrik Stomphowler and Wickerbough Elder.
Arashi, the Sky Asunder: I keep meaning to get this one, as he shines in multiplayer which we cube quite a lot.
Maelstrom Pulse, Murderous Redcap, Broodmate Dragon, Giant Solifuge: These are all on my to get list, again I may wait for rotations to see if prices drop.
Behemoth Sledge: This would be swapped for Armadillo Cloak. Which is better? I am inclined to go for the equipment, as its reusability in multiplayer outweighs the fact it is slower.
Rav Duals: These are kind of all or none, so represent a significant investment. Maybe I just need to save up a few months magic investment and take the plunge.
Rishadan Port: I have a playset of these and have no idea why one is not in the cube.
Mutavault: Cost issues again. How much do you get on ebay for a kidney? I have a full playset but only need one to play Cube.
Shelldock Isle: I have tried to keep the coloured activation lands even. Maybe I'll try this instead of Faerie Conclave.
wtwlf123 suggested some weaker cards:
These cards fall into two broad camps, cards that are bad in duel but great in multiplayer, and cards that should probably be cut.
Beloved Chaplain is a bit of a pet card. He has uses as he can block all day (if attackers have no evasion) and is unblockable (and can do great things with equipment like SoFaI or SoLaS). And he just seems like such a nice guy with his quiet dignity, pet hummingbird and cue-ball noggin. He should go. Bye bye, baldie.
Whispers of the Muse, Mystical Teachings, Pyrohemia, Violent Eruption, Life // Death: I agree these should be better cards. The last certainly should be replaced by Maelstrom Pulse.
Deep-Sea Kraken, Forgotten Ancient: More spells being played in multiplayer makes these cards much better. Similarly...
Mindslicer: More opponents hands.
Mortivore: More cards in graveyards.
Seedborn Muse: More upkeeps.
Furnace of Rath: This card is, in my opinion, vital for Red in multiplayer. It scales up all the burn helping Red to compete, and it ends games more quickly, altering the game to be plyed more on Red's terms.
Copper Myr: Entry error. I'd better check what this card should have been.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Kher Keep: These are attempts to keep coloured activation cards balanced. I should probably just not bother trying to do this unless you have better Black or red suggestions.
Thanks for the feedback. As well as the outright errors it is good to be challenged on card choices. I don't want my cube to be overly clogged with pet cards or inclusions that are only good in perfect circumstances.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I did this with my cube as well. I have two of each color specific non basic land. Here's what I run.
In B/X anything Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is such an amazing mana fixer. And Ghitu Encampment can be so good. A 2/1 first striker is nothing to laugh at. Especially in an aggro R/X deck. You might also thinking about Keldon Megaliths in that slot.
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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What about cards that are only good in multiplayer? If you ever do a heads-up draft, you don't want your draft to be clogged with cards that are terrible outside of multiplayer either.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
@wtwlf123: A valid point. The converse is also true, however. Many cards that are excellent in duel do not scale well to multiplayer, for example weenies, counterspells, targeted discard, burn and sorcery speed removal. My options would seem to be:
1) Accept that there will be some cards that go late if they are intended for the "other" format (what we do now).
2) Only have cards that are good in both duel and multiplayer (means missing out on a lot of great stuff).
3) Have a "transformational sideboard" swapping cards for the format we are playing (a hassle).
Any suggestions?
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
This is something I've wrestled with as well. My solution for the time being is #1, but the pie-in-the-sky answer is "just make two cubes".
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
I would suggest just building the best cube you can possibly build. The cube is supposed to be a best of the best (of sorts). It's very possible to play multiplayer or Winston draft with that set up and still have a ton of fun.
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
@bondafog: I quite like this idea. As an aside, when I used to play in limited tourneys I marked my sleeves (on the faces obviously) with a permanent marker so I could easily identify what cards I had sided in. Tht idea I got from the gold bordered decks which had the sideboard cards marked with a little SB symbol. It sounds, though as if you are suggesting, the cards would effectively cycle for free! I think I would have it that if there was a multiplayer card in one of the boosters, that player could reveal it and draw another at random. If they wanted to leave it in or pick it that would be up to them, but it would probably be a sub-par card for duel.
@Calibretto: I agree that the cube should be the best of the best. "Best", however, is context dependent. Some cards that are great in duel are much worse in multiplayer. For example, Dark Confidant would typically be a higher pick than Graveborn Muse for duel, but in long multiplayer games (probably with a higher mana curve) he may well kill you before a player does.
At the moment I am liking bondafog's plan. I think I will aim for a fairly standard cube (perhaps favouring cards that are even better in multiplayer, like Taurean Mauler) but add in a handful of marked cards that are only used in multiplayer.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Red has seen the most cards swapped and is now playing a lot better. Other changes have been to get rid of cute cards and replace them with more powerful ones. There have also been a few experimental swaps, just to tr out some cards that seem interesting.
I have logged the changes and updated my lists on the 1st post.
Bondafog's suggestion for Multiplayer cards worked well. We started out as an even number (6) and drafted regularly, but if you had a "MP" (written on the sleeve in permanent marker) card in your booster you could discard it and add a replacement. When one of our group had to leave after that draft, we redrafted for multiplayer (star format) but you were not allowed to discard the "MP" cards. This was very easy to get, quick to implement and we were happy with the result.
Because of this we may add back in some of the more egregious multiplayer cards (e.g. Blatant Thievery) which would be rubbish in duel. There is still some debate as to where the line is drawn for the MP cards, so this will take a bit more working. The aim would be to have maybe 5 cards in each section that are MP, and the rest be a fairly traditional power cube. So far it is looking like a good plan.
Our group baked Bondafog a :cookie:.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I'm aiming for 60 cards in this section:
Definitely:
plus two of:
Definitely:
plus one of:
Definitely
plus two of
Definitely:
plus three of:
Definitely:
Plus one of:
Paladin en-Vec
Any other good 3 drop creatures?
Definitely:
Plus three of:
Definitely:
plus 3 of:
Definitely:
Definitely:
plus one of
Probably both of:
Definitely:
plus one of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
I am also planning on adding Glory, Mageta the Lion and Limited Resources as White's "Multplayer Only" cards.
Obvious omissions are either for expensive new cards (e.g Baneslayer), planeswalkers (which we don't play - yet), or my idiocy which you can put me right on! I thinkt the "definites" are pretty definite, but go ahead and argue me wrong.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Harrier and Wayfarer
Harm's Way, by far, it's an insane trick.
plus three of:
[/SPOILER]
Disenchant, Seal of Cleansing, ...Honor of the Pure? I'm not too huge on the other options.
Pianna, Nomad Captain, Soltari Champion,
Prison Term, Dismantling Blow, Wing Shards
All but Galepowder.
Baneslayer Angel
Pristine Angel
All but Feudkiller's. (very good wrath variants beat a not-as-good Hierarch)
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Also, I would run Griffin Guide very high personally. Sometimes you just drop it on an early creature and win if they don't draw a removal. Even then, you keep a Leonin Skyhunter.
Galepowder Mage is much better than Commander Eesha. Better body for the cost, easier cost, and a very easily abusable blink effect. Any comes-into-play effect on a creature can trigger every turn, to net you lands, kill creatures or whatever.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I completely agree. People speak highly of Eesha, but I don't see it in a format filled with spot removal and sweepers. Galepowder at worst is a 3/3 flyer that an opponent needs two flyers to block.
I am keeping Momentary Blink - it may be better for us as we have not yet changed over to the M10 rules.
Thanks for the 3drop suggestions. I am going to give Soltari Crusader a try as it is less white-intensive and I think shadow>3/3 on the attack.
Yes I need to get a Baneslater. In the meantime Archon of Justice will be a placeholder.
I'm including Galepowder Mage over Eesha. I just feel that 2 power is not enough in a 4-drop, and the Mage is more interesting.
Glory
Mageta the Lion
Limited Resources
So, on to blue:
Force of Will
Definitely:
plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus six of:
Definitely:
Plus 4 of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus one of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Keiga, the Tide Star
Plus three of:
Multiplayer only cards will be three of: Deep-Sea Kraken, Spelljack, Blatant Thievery, Forced Fruition and Evacuation(if not in the main cube section).
As before, I am wanting to make better use of the cards I already have rather than add new ones, but if there are any terrible omissions then please let me know.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Force Spike
Merfolk Looter
Thought Courier
Timetwister (CC3)
Boomerang
Remand
Mana Leak
Miscalculation
Memory Lapse
Arcane Denial
Standstill
Court Hussar
Trinket Mage
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Wake Thrasher
(two of):
Hinder
Exclude
Compulsive Research
Clone
Opposition
Dismiss
Deep Analysis
Desertion
(the other slot goes to a CC4)
Upheaval
Draining Whelk
Confiscate
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I only have a proxy Timetwister and I have it as 1U. Don't you think it's a tad overcosted at 2U?
Thanks for the input. Looter and Courier, interesting...
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
No, i don't think it's overcosted at all. Maybe a tad undercosted... You ofcourse need to run it in the correct deck (U/R counterburn).
I like looters alot. And they also enable reanimator if you support that archetype.
My Tribal cube
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I think the twin looter effects could work quite nicely, particularly as I am wanting to support reanimator in black. I'd been put off including both as I tend to avoid functional reprints, but I think there is a strong argument to include both.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
Ponder
Force Spike
(you could talk me into disrupt over spike, but cut Spell Snare)
2CC: (excluding Timetwister)
Merfolk Looter
Waterfront Bouncer
Remand (much better than Memory Lapse imo)
Mana Leak
Miscalculation
Arcane Denial
Standstill
Daze
3CC:
Ophidian
Trinket Mage
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Wake Thrasher
Frantic Search
Rushing River
4CC
Tradewind Rider (We have found this card to be amazing)
Dismiss
Deep Analysis
5CC (I like Gush a lot, but these are two very unique effects)
Evacuation
Desertion
6CC+
Upheaval
Draining Whelk
Confiscate
Multi:
Deep-Sea Kraken
Forced Fruition
Evacuation
Force of Will
Definitely:
[CARD]Keiga, the Tide Star
Draining Whelk[/CARD]
Plus three of:
Multiplayer only cards will be: Deep-Sea Kraken, Forced Fruition and Evacuation
Wow, there were som pretty painful cuts there. Court Hussar I will probably add to the U/W section.
So, Black.
In black, I am wanting reanimator to be a viable strategy, and otherwise for it to be about 30:70 aggro:control. Part of me thinks that black should reward commitment
Black
0cc
Definitely:
Slaughter Pact
Snuff Out
I think both are worthy of places, let me know if you disagree!
One of:
Definitely:
Plus three of:
- Reanimate
- Thoughtseize
- Innocent Blood
- Executioner’s Capsule
- Booster Tutor
(for 15 random undrafted cube cards)Definitely
Plus five of:
Definitely:
Plus five of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus 2 of:
Definitely:
Plus three of:
Definitely:
Plus two of:
Definitely:
Plus three of:
Definitely:
Mind Twist
And probably all three of:
Definitely:
And maybe:
Twisted Abomination
Definitely:
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Plus two of:
For Multiplayer only, I am considering three of Mindslicer, Mortivore, Grave Pact, Fleshbag Marauder and Cunning Lethemancer.
Thanks again for the advice.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Reanimate and Thoughtseize are also excellent.
2cc:
Black Knight, Dark Confidant,Withered Wretch. Those should be enough - add more 2cc elsewhere. Hand of Cruelty if you really want another.
All those spells plus Doom Blade are worth including IMO. Terror, Chainer's Edict, Night's Whisper are my favourites.
3cc:
Mercenary Knight >>>> Hidden Horror. Also add Bone Shredder. Yawgmoth's Will and Sudden Death for the spells (again, I run ALL of these)
4cc:
Braids and Mirri the Cursed. I would add another lower CC spell over Grinning Demon for your smaller Cube.
Barter in Blood is good, Mutilate also. Dread Return is poor, run Diabolic Servitude instead.
5cc:
Easily Silent Specter, Puppeteer Clique and Wumpus/Kagemaro. Vampire and Skinthinner are terrible, and Plaguelord loses a lot of its allure post-M10.
Yeah, those spells are solid. I don't personally run Beacon (I prefer Corpse Dance, though the latter serves a different role).
6cc:
Twisted Abomination is alriiiight... you could add better elsewhere I think (more of those delicious 2cc spells). Profane Command is great, but Mind Twist and Mind Shatter in the same Cube is sadmaking, although they're both good. So I guess that leaves Death Cloud, although it's very black mana intensive.
If you want to push mono-black, consider Tendrils of Corruption, Corrupt and Consume Spirit too.
Multiplayer-wise, take Grave Pact, Fleshbag Maruader and Lethemancer.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: