Gemstone Mine was one card I ran from Weatherlight, but it's not in there now that I'm at 360. Aura of Silence is good for multiplayer. Mind Stone is a great card for all cubes 450 or bigger. There's a handful of others, but those are the three standouts, IMO.
Gemstone Mine was one card I ran from Weatherlight, but it's not in there now that I'm at 360. Aura of Silence is good for multiplayer. Mind Stone is a great card for all cubes 450 or bigger. There's a handful of others, but those are the three standouts, IMO.
I still haven't got any Dark Ascension cards yet because A) I haven't been to my LGS yet, and B) I'm waiting for some of the prices to drop.. but here are my proposed adds/cuts
I'm also considering about.. suggestions appreciated
Dungeon Geists > Lu Xun - Is a 4cc, 1 power card drawing creature is what blue really wants? And I hear mini-Frost Titan/Faceless Butcher is good. Falkenrath Aristocrat > Hellhole Rats - I'm undecided on this change. I'm not unhappy with Hellhole Rats, but is this better? Havengul Lich > Oona, Queen of the Fae - I'm also undecided. Wolfbitten Captive > ?? - I'm undecided on this one Geist of Saint Traft > Grand Arbiter - I'm undecided on this one.. Geist is also overpriced Wildfire > Banefire - ??
Braids, Cabal Minion > ?? Smokestack > 1 black card to even out the colours..
I would actually want to keep the burn in...maybe chandra nalaar?She's been extremely underwhelming as of late. (she's only a combo with her phoenix to be honest,she hasn't been able to activate her ultimate in forever and hasn't really been removing anything from the board.)
I'd like to address the graveyard removal comments. Our group is huge on reanimator, so I've included a few graveyard removal cards such as Scavenging Ooze, Nezumi Graverobber, and Withered Wretch. I didn't like the cc of the wretch, and artifact grave removals are too narrow, so I'm just trying out Faerie Macabre.
I though so too, but my spreadsheet says otherwise.. Hope I didn't add an extra card into the cube.
Dark Confidant & Ancient Tomb - it does feel like I'm adding more aggro into the cube huh.. I'm leaning towards that direction, we'll see how these cards pan out (again)
Flayer of the Hatebound - you both have a point. Let me ponder this more. Maybe bring Rorix back in? That has always been a fan fave.
Dungeon Geists - Lu Xun replaced Thieving Magpie, and both were under/over costed for what it does.. The blue Geist will definitely have more reach in cube.
Genesis - Eidolon, as good as you described it, our players just didn't play the card, and that included me the cube-owner. We'll see if Indrik is really needed seeing that green already has a bunch of ETB artifact/ench removal creatures
Oona vs Geth - I feel that these cards are very similar, except that Geth guarantees you at least a creature.. you have no guarantee in Oona, since you don't know what colours you will hit in your opponent's grave. Geth and Havenghul Lich are also very similar.. hmm..
Average 8 dmg eh? Yeah, I think I'm sold on Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Wildfire vs Banefire - X-burn will always be played to add reach and a finisher to any R/x or X/r deck.. I'll probably stick with Banefire for now. Any other cutting suggestions for the Wildfire?
If black 4cc is overcrowded then mirri's gotta go.
Flayer of the Hatebound - you both have a point. Let me ponder this more. Maybe bring Rorix back in? That has always been a fan fave.
Absolutely not Rorix, since Flayer works well with reanimate decks anyways. It's either bogarden hellkite or the flayer,although I would like flayer a lot more since you don't necessarily have to cheat it into play (but it's best if you do from the graveyard).
Genesis - Eidolon, as good as you described it, our players just didn't play the card, and that included me the cube-owner. We'll see if Indrik is really needed seeing that green already has a bunch of ETB artifact/ench removal creatures
Genesis is often far too mana intensive for the current speed of our multiplayer games to make a difference. It just hasn't worked well. But I'm always willing to give him a chance.
Oona vs Geth - I feel that these cards are very similar, except that Geth guarantees you at least a creature.. you have no guarantee in Oona, since you don't know what colours you will hit in your opponent's grave. Geth and Havenghul Lich are also very similar.. hmm..
Again, I would've liked the lich if he had the evasion that both Geth and Oona offers and the lich itself needs to target a player with the same colours as you are playing or specifically yourself.
Average 8 dmg eh? Yeah, I think I'm sold on Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Well,a 4/1 hasted flying indestructible kinda spells that(if you have stuff to sac to it).
Wildfire vs Banefire - X-burn will always be played to add reach and a finisher to any R/x or X/r deck.. I'll probably stick with Banefire for now. Any other cutting suggestions for the Wildfire?
If you really want to...chandra nalaar's on my chopping block.
Since you want to bring in the Lich, I think it hard to believe that you don't even play with a similar card that has proven to be great in the past, be it limited, constructed or cube.
I don't think you can directly compare, but there are similarities tho.
Genesis
++ you can regrowth any creature card in your graveyard for 2G
+ triggered ability is great for breaking stalemates without topdecking
+ reasonably sized body.. 4/4 for 4G
- requires the Genesis to be in the graveyard to trigger the ability
- no evasion
--- you can only regrowth any creature card in your graveyard during your upkeep for 3cc, before you get the draw. Therefore the odds of you regrowthing and recasting the creature on the same turn is lower. Essentially you're tying up a chunk your mana for that turn.
Havenghul Lich
++ you can cast any creature in other graveyard (5 graveyards total) for 1 extra mana
+ you can activate the ability at any time
+ you can activate it as many times a turn provided you have mana
- reasonably sized body, but with colour restrictions 4/4 for 3UB
- requires the card to be in play in order to activate the ability
- no evasion
The fact that Genesis can only be activated during upkeep really hinders the card (at least in my playgroup, as with E-dragon). And UB reanimator is very common here, so I can see the Lich being played in those decks.
btw kudos to whoever suggested the +/-method of card evaluation
I don't think the abilities are particularly close, actually. The Lich's ability is far superior: it's cheaper, puts directly into play and even works for your opponent's 'yard. In fact, ever since our cube got near the speed it has now, Genesis has been mediocre in play and mediocre in the 'yard. We cut it ages ago for underperforming. The Lich will at least be a bomb in play. What works most against it is that it's multi-colored, and that is a pretty large drawback for a 5-drop.
I think my point is, if you're willing to reserve a multi-colored slot for Lich, it's a fine choice.
I don't think the abilities are particularly close, actually. The Lich's ability is far superior: it's cheaper, puts directly into play and even works for your opponent's 'yard. In fact, ever since our cube got near the speed it has now, Genesis has been mediocre in play and mediocre in the 'yard. We cut it ages ago for underperforming. The Lich will at least be a bomb in play. What works most against it is that it's multi-colored, and that is a pretty large drawback for a 5-drop.
I think my point is, if you're willing to reserve a multi-colored slot for Lich, it's a fine choice.
I agree with you Fredo. I see Genesis as a really restricted Yawgmoth's Will, where you can only trigger the ability during upkeep. That restriction makes it difficult to make a good decision on what to do during your turn. It's before your draw, your attack and everything.. I'd actually rather have Volrath's Stronghold or Oversold Cemetery (and we all know how many cubes run that). The Lich will be miles better than Genesis in my cube.
You'd rather have Oversold Cemetery than Genesis? Wow.
Don't have to be so condescending. Cemetery is largely resistant to removal (limited number of enchantment removal in cube), and it's pure card advantage.. white Genesis is card advantage, it's at a restrictive cost at a very restrictive time.
Don't have to be so condescending. Cemetery is largely resistant to removal (limited number of enchantment removal in cube), and it's pure card advantage.. white Genesis is card advantage, it's at a restrictive cost at a very restrictive time.
It's also strapped to a win condition, can be used even when it's in the graveyard and doesn't require you to have 4+ creatures in your graveyard.
It's much more restrictive than the CA generated by Genesis. Start keeping track of how seldom you actually have 4 or more creatures in your graveyard ...there's a reason nobody runs that card in their cubes.
Gemstone Mine was one card I ran from Weatherlight, but it's not in there now that I'm at 360. Aura of Silence is good for multiplayer. Mind Stone is a great card for all cubes 450 or bigger. There's a handful of others, but those are the three standouts, IMO.
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We have Phyrexian Revoker instead of Pithing Needle, just recently took out Gemstone Mine and Aura of Silence, and Mind Stone was never liked in our cube. funny that Homelands and Fallen Empires have cards and these sets don't. Oh well.
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IN > OUT
Black Vise > Contagion Clasp - first game, I was hit with 7 dmg off the vise. I think that merit's its re-inclusion
Bloodghast > Mirri the Cursed - good aggro creature and recursion in Bloodghast, but it's only meh so far
Dark Confidant > Night's Whisper - I haven't seen BOB in play yet, but I hope it would be played more often than in the past
Faerie Macabre > Withered Wretch - trying another graveyard removal card, this time in a black flyer
Dark Ritual > Laquatus's Champion - I hear turn 2 > four-drops are good..
Makeshift Mannequin > Beacon of Unrest - trying out its instant counterpart. Beacon was rarely used to reanimate artifacts
Mystical Tutor > Misdirection - I added the tutors back in.. felt misdirection was underplayed
Ancient Tomb > Signal Pest - trying to speed the cube up a little
Indrik Stomphowler > Genesis - Genesis was underplayed, but Indrik will always have targets
Mayor Of Avabruck > Spike Weaver - werewolves in multiplayer will flip often so I expect the Mayor to perform well
Worldly Tutor > Stonewood Invocation - adding another tutor, though Stonewood was often a green "burn" spell in our cube
Enlightened Tutor > Spectral Procession - adding the last tutor.. really didn't know what to cut for this one..
I still haven't got any Dark Ascension cards yet because A) I haven't been to my LGS yet, and B) I'm waiting for some of the prices to drop.. but here are my proposed adds/cuts
Gravecrawler > Ogre Marauder - another decent 1-drop
Vorapede > Kodama of the North Tree - seems like a parallel and logical cut
Strangleroot Geist > Briarhorn - I like the combat tricks in briarhorn, but Geist is just better
Torch Fiend > Blood Knight - 1R and artifact removal is far better than a red knight
Hellrider > Jeska, Warrior Adept - seems like a logical upgrade
Faithless Looting > Puncture Blast - taking out burn for more card quality in red
Flayer of the Hatebound > Bogardan Hellkite - will function similar in my cube; creature that you want to cheat into play
Elesh Norn, Grand Celobite > Akroma, Angel of Wrath - 1 mana cheaper and will have a great effect on the board. However, Elesh Norn too overpriced right now. I will wait on this one
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben > Loxodon Gatekeeper - a cheaper card with similar abilities
Lone Missionary > Knight of White Orchid - Finally making this change
Huntmaster of the Fells > Boggart Ram-Gang - again, werewolves will be abused in multiplayer
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad > Stillmoon Cavalier - I don't think anyone will disagree
I'm also considering about.. suggestions appreciated
Dungeon Geists > Lu Xun - Is a 4cc, 1 power card drawing creature is what blue really wants? And I hear mini-Frost Titan/Faceless Butcher is good.
Falkenrath Aristocrat > Hellhole Rats - I'm undecided on this change. I'm not unhappy with Hellhole Rats, but is this better?
Havengul Lich > Oona, Queen of the Fae - I'm also undecided.
Wolfbitten Captive > ?? - I'm undecided on this one
Geist of Saint Traft > Grand Arbiter - I'm undecided on this one.. Geist is also overpriced
Wildfire > Banefire - ??
Braids, Cabal Minion > ??
Smokestack > 1 black card to even out the colours..
Definitely good.
I seriously like Mirri more, but an annoying landfall guy that always comes back isn't bad.
If this was single player, I wouldn't mind the risk that comes with Bob. But multiplayer makes this way too risky.
I do like the discard rather than paying the mana cost for it.
Agreed,I think we had enough of black burn laquatus.
As you've seen in our last cubing, that instant speed really does a lot better.
Misdirection wasn't underplayed. It was never played (even by me).
Don't really like cards with big backlashes like this and mana crypt.
Agreed on this.
Mayor's gonna be good.
Green burn indeed.
I like the tutor more anyway.
Black's going to be pretty aggro isn't it?
The only drawback is the white remove from game spells being able to target it and stuff like icy. Still, I do like it.
Geist is far better.
Finally that knight gets the axe.
Upgrade indeed.
I would actually want to keep the burn in...maybe chandra nalaar?She's been extremely underwhelming as of late. (she's only a combo with her phoenix to be honest,she hasn't been able to activate her ultimate in forever and hasn't really been removing anything from the board.)
Agreed, except this is normally playable too.
Yes, I'll be waiting.
Good cut.
Thought you wanted to keep this knight? (Although it's probably the weakest of the 2cc whites)
I'm not sure if 4cc would be that good since everyone would most likely be playing something by this time (unless you accelled)
Not disagreeing here,but deathgrasp is a good option too.
Is magpie still in?If not, this is definitely better than the Wu general.
I thought you took out hellhole rats for Olivia?
I'm against it. Oona's far better with the flying and her ability. Sure, the lich can reanimate but you can't cast stuff off-colour.
Boa?
Might be a while since he's gonna be in standard for a loooooong time. (He's a prime sword bearer)
Do not want.
Uhhhh...you sure?Maybe sewer nemesis or Lilianna Vess?
Vampire Hexmage.
I'd like to address the graveyard removal comments. Our group is huge on reanimator, so I've included a few graveyard removal cards such as Scavenging Ooze, Nezumi Graverobber, and Withered Wretch. I didn't like the cc of the wretch, and artifact grave removals are too narrow, so I'm just trying out Faerie Macabre.
Bloodghast vs Mirri the Cursed - This was one of the tougher cuts.. I may end up make the switch back.
I though so too, but my spreadsheet says otherwise.. Hope I didn't add an extra card into the cube.
Dark Confidant & Ancient Tomb - it does feel like I'm adding more aggro into the cube huh.. I'm leaning towards that direction, we'll see how these cards pan out (again)
Flayer of the Hatebound - you both have a point. Let me ponder this more. Maybe bring Rorix back in? That has always been a fan fave.
Dungeon Geists - Lu Xun replaced Thieving Magpie, and both were under/over costed for what it does.. The blue Geist will definitely have more reach in cube.
Genesis - Eidolon, as good as you described it, our players just didn't play the card, and that included me the cube-owner. We'll see if Indrik is really needed seeing that green already has a bunch of ETB artifact/ench removal creatures
Oona vs Geth - I feel that these cards are very similar, except that Geth guarantees you at least a creature.. you have no guarantee in Oona, since you don't know what colours you will hit in your opponent's grave. Geth and Havenghul Lich are also very similar.. hmm..
Average 8 dmg eh? Yeah, I think I'm sold on Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Wildfire vs Banefire - X-burn will always be played to add reach and a finisher to any R/x or X/r deck.. I'll probably stick with Banefire for now. Any other cutting suggestions for the Wildfire?
If black 4cc is overcrowded then mirri's gotta go.
Absolutely not Rorix, since Flayer works well with reanimate decks anyways. It's either bogarden hellkite or the flayer,although I would like flayer a lot more since you don't necessarily have to cheat it into play (but it's best if you do from the graveyard).
Genesis is often far too mana intensive for the current speed of our multiplayer games to make a difference. It just hasn't worked well. But I'm always willing to give him a chance.
Again, I would've liked the lich if he had the evasion that both Geth and Oona offers and the lich itself needs to target a player with the same colours as you are playing or specifically yourself.
Well,a 4/1 hasted flying indestructible kinda spells that(if you have stuff to sac to it).
If you really want to...chandra nalaar's on my chopping block.
I don't think you can directly compare, but there are similarities tho.
Genesis
++ you can regrowth any creature card in your graveyard for 2G
+ triggered ability is great for breaking stalemates without topdecking
+ reasonably sized body.. 4/4 for 4G
- requires the Genesis to be in the graveyard to trigger the ability
- no evasion
--- you can only regrowth any creature card in your graveyard during your upkeep for 3cc, before you get the draw. Therefore the odds of you regrowthing and recasting the creature on the same turn is lower. Essentially you're tying up a chunk your mana for that turn.
Havenghul Lich
++ you can cast any creature in other graveyard (5 graveyards total) for 1 extra mana
+ you can activate the ability at any time
+ you can activate it as many times a turn provided you have mana
- reasonably sized body, but with colour restrictions 4/4 for 3UB
- requires the card to be in play in order to activate the ability
- no evasion
The fact that Genesis can only be activated during upkeep really hinders the card (at least in my playgroup, as with E-dragon). And UB reanimator is very common here, so I can see the Lich being played in those decks.
btw kudos to whoever suggested the +/-method of card evaluation
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I think my point is, if you're willing to reserve a multi-colored slot for Lich, it's a fine choice.
I agree with you Fredo. I see Genesis as a really restricted Yawgmoth's Will, where you can only trigger the ability during upkeep. That restriction makes it difficult to make a good decision on what to do during your turn. It's before your draw, your attack and everything.. I'd actually rather have Volrath's Stronghold or Oversold Cemetery (and we all know how many cubes run that). The Lich will be miles better than Genesis in my cube.
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Don't have to be so condescending. Cemetery is largely resistant to removal (limited number of enchantment removal in cube), and it's pure card advantage.. white Genesis is card advantage, it's at a restrictive cost at a very restrictive time.
It's also strapped to a win condition, can be used even when it's in the graveyard and doesn't require you to have 4+ creatures in your graveyard.
It's much more restrictive than the CA generated by Genesis. Start keeping track of how seldom you actually have 4 or more creatures in your graveyard ...there's a reason nobody runs that card in their cubes.
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