This is what confused me. It sounds like you're advocating against these changes, but 3 of the 5 ARE part of the A-list. They certainly aren't tier 1 a-list, but I'm still working on getting anything awesome post-M10, remember.
Sure, and these things take time. The important thing is to have a critical mass of dudes so that aggro is viable.
The reason why I said that Hexmage and Cutthroat were borderline is because I rank the black aggro creatures thusly:
1. Sarcomancy
2. Carnophage
3. Vampire Lacerator
4. Nantuko Shade
5. Bloodghast
6. Dark Confidant
7. Nezumi Graverobber
8. Oona's Prowler
9. Dauthi Horror
Those guys are staples and I'm not really wanting to get into their respective order so much as to list them as the 'staples', and pretty much better than the alternatives. Then the next best of the rest are:
Vampire Hexmage
Skittering Skirge
Black Knight
Nezumi Cutthroat
Dauthi Slayer
So sure, add Cutthroat and Hexmage, they are good options and you need something in that slot to have a critical mass of dudes. But when you can, look to upgrade to the 'core' guys.
If I'm going to be honest, the Armageddon issue is that the others feel that any time you have a large amount of LD, you attract griefers to it, and 2 of my main group are recovering griefer addicts. I'm not talking about Spike, who genuinely wants to win, I'm talking about someone who plays Limited Resources.dec at a 10 person multiplayer table just to see how long they can keep the lock going. I'm talking about Armageddon backed up with cheap countermagic. It's the equivalent of Stasis, and it can easily take cube drafting from taking a few hours to lasting all night if done ad nauseum.
But you're the 'TO', right? Just declare time to be over in the round, their match is a draw, and give them pairings for their next opponent.
The other thing I have done in my cube is intentionally hamstrung cards that draw the game out, like Moat, The Abyss and Collective Restraint. It's not that I think that those cards are bad, I just want rounds to end at a reasonable time so we can play more magic vs other opponents. I make an exception for mana denial cards solely to enable aggro.
I like all of your includes. I do like Blood, BD and Whelk though, and run them currently. They are definitely borderline inclusions though, and cutting them isn't like 'what are you DOING?'.
I like all of your includes. I do like Blood, BD and Whelk though, and run them currently. They are definitely borderline inclusions though, and cutting them isn't like 'what are you DOING?'.
Innocent Blood and Draining Whelk are 2 of my top 100 favorite cards of all time, Innocent probably being in my top 10. Like I said, it also killed me to cut Beacon of Unrest, but I've got to find space for these little critters. It may be the case that I just need to expand my cube a little bit. I'll talk to the guys and gals about it tomorrow when I bring up the LD debate, see if there's a consensus. Maybe an increase of 3 or 4 cards per color? If I increase by 3, we could do a 9 man draft with one booster left over in case Booster Tutor gets cast, although that only works the one time...Ah well, we'll work something out.
I updated the OP with the stance my group has come to on the Armageddon issue, and I also reorganized the cube so that it is in CMC order. (Originally I was going to have two lists, but the just the thought of updating both lists was pain inducing.) I think I'm going to take magicmerl's advice about trying LD alternatives to the graveyard and test Hokori, Dust Drinker in the next update, who seems a decent alternative to the now expressly banned 'Geddon. I'll also definitely be adding Molten Rain and, fingers crossed that I can find one, Tectonic Edge. Lodestone Golem too, as I'll also be expanding each color by 3 cards and cleaning up some misplaced/underpowered selections in the artifacts, hopefully.
I think not playing Armageddon effects is fine if you also remove all the wrath effects.
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I think not playing Armageddon effects is fine if you also remove all the wrath effects.
I actually am going to cut a lot of them in the coming update, going down to just the best of the best (Even if it means kissing my old pal Hallowed Burial goodbye. ) I just need to see if I can get all of the cards I'll need to replace them tomorrow night.
Also, I can see the point you're making here, but it seems an insufficient argument. Control decks are limited to playing one land a turn (in my cube, anyway. I don't run Exploration/Fastbond) while aggro can easily respond to a Wrath with 2 creatures, or Spectral Procession, or Avalanche Riders(all of which will be SO much better as soon as I can find someone to trade me a freaking Glorious Anthem.) . Armageddon is just harder to recover from.
Anyway, it's been discussed to death, I think, because it's not solely my decision. For now, we shall have to see how Hokori performs.
In the coming update, I'm going to try to reshape my cube to make each color have a more solid identity. For example, I want to have a blink/ETB theme in white and more ramp cards in green. I'll also drop Psionic Blast it's the least blue card other than Opposition to be printed with a blue frame, and I'll be moving Crystal Shard into its place and out of artifacts as soon as I get a Lodestone Golem.
On that note, are there any obvious mana ramp cards in green that I'm not running? I'm trying to get a Gaea's Cradle, and I think I remember there being a functional reprint of Llanowar Elves that I'd also like to run, but if there are others I'd love to know what they are. Also, does anyone have experience with Lotus Cobra? Seems like he could aggro/ramp at the same time, but also looks a little overrated to me.
Thanks again for all the help guys. I really love this forum.
Lotus Cobra is a really good 2-drop suitable for aggro and ramp. It speeds your development, fixes, and swings for 2. Well worth tracking down a copy. You're only considering it overrated due to the hype that surrounded it, IMO, and most of that was due to its mythic status.
Fyndhorn Elves is a good card to include if you're OK with doubles. You can also consider Arbor Elf who's generally the same, occasionally better, but more prone to disruption via LD.
Gaea's Cradle is very powerful and I recommend it highly. Otherwise, I can't think of too many ramp cards you're missing. Your green section is watertight, well done. Mwonvuli Acid-Moss is a favourite ramp/LD card of mine that I'd run over a few cards in there, you could give that a shot, but you've got most bases covered!
Fyndhorn Elves is a good card to include if you're OK with doubles. You can also consider Arbor Elf who's generally the same, occasionally better, but more prone to disruption via LD.
We've appreciated Arbor Elf as an extra mana critter. It helps reach critical mass for ramp strategies which we like. It's tempting to add in something like Utopia Sprawl for a combo, but it is just not good enough on it's own. I can see the advantage of untapping a dual land to come up about as much as the disadvantage of being prone to disruption.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I think these are the themes I'd like to emphasize in each color
White – Tokens/weenies, anthems, mass removal, blink, disenchant
Red – Hastey dudes, burn, LD (mostly non-basic), artifact hate
Black- Suicide black, creature removal, hand hate, reanimator
Blue - Counterspells, draw, thievery, bounce spells
Green- Ramp, fatties, ETB creatures, pump spells
Any suggestions regarding these? Is there something obvious that I'm missing (outside of something un-cubable, like W lifegain)? Also, keep in mind that I'm going to be running things out of theme, they'll just few and far between. ie, I'm not dropping Regrowth just because it's not one of Green's main themes, because it's still super awesome.
I think these are the themes I'd like to emphasize in each color
White – Tokens/weenies, anthems, mass removal, blink, disenchant
Red – Hastey dudes, burn, LD (mostly non-basic), artifact hate
Black- Suicide black, creature removal, hand hate, reanimator
Blue - Counterspells, draw, thievery, bounce spells
Green- Ramp, fatties, ETB creatures, pump spells
Green aggro or land destruction are fun choices. Green is also usually getting the most disenchant options. Also, what you have listed doesn't strike me as themes so much as what can be found withing the color in general. Mono black matters is also one. Blue artifacts. Hope this helps.
Also, what you have listed doesn't strike me as themes so much as what can be found withing the color in general.
That's fair, but what I mean is that right now some of these things can't be found in my cube. I'm hoping that in the next update I'll be able to emphasize the given themes in those colors to create more of a "Block" feel, if that makes any sense. I'd like my cube to play in a similar manner to limited with regular boosters, only with 100% awesome cards. Really, what I mean is that I hope to trim away some of the cards that don't help these themes and replace them with cards that do, ie trading out Miraculous Recovery for Karmic Guide, since Guide is blink-able.
I hadn't thought about Monoblack or Artifact Blue. If there's room, those are certainly things I could look into. Thanks!
Also, both red and black have a bit of mass removal.
How big is your white blink section?
ETB creatures will obviously be in all of the colors, since they tend to be the best creatures by nature, but there will probably be more in red than some of the other colors since that's where the prime LD/burn cards are. (Avalanche Riders, Keldon Marauders, Keldon Champion, Keldon Vandals....a lot of Keldons...) So, yes, it would be an excellent color to combine with white.
When I say mass removal, I'm including all sweepers (Wrath, Austere Command, hopefully eventually Armageddon if I can convince my group) and not just the ones that destroy creatures. That said, Blacks sweepers fit the creature removal theme and Red's fit the burn theme, it's just burn not aimed at the face.
At the moment, my white section has ZERO blink cards, which disappoints me. When I update for this purpose, some cards I'm looking to add are Flickerwisp, Galepowder Mage, Parallax Wave and of course Momentary Blink in U/W. That's the point of listing these themes, is I don't know if there are cubables that I'm missing out on.
Thanks for the ideas in red, I'll probably make an effort to increase the amount of 187 dudes there too.
Another small update
[CARD]
Wilt-Leaf Liege[/CARD]---->Qasali Pridemage Stoneforge Mystic---->White Knight(Just as everyone said, it's too hard to get her AND good equipment in the same pool.) Stonecloaker---->Flickerwisp (Fits the theme I'm trying to build of blink in white, plus I've heard all kinds of good things about him.) Windbrisk Heights ----> Harm's Way (A card I never saw activate exchanged for what looks like a cool combat trick. This is going to require some reorganization on my part in the OP, but that's okay.) Makeshift Mannequin ----> Beacon of Unrest We all were missing the ability to steal artifacts. This move might not be approved of by everyone, but our group loves snatching a destroyed Jitte or previously cracked 'Slaver.
Squee, Goblin Nabob moved to colorless section thanks to all of the whining from people drafting red about how bad he is, replaced by Sulfur Elemental who I've played in the past with tremendous results. Engineered Explosives removed to make room for Squee.
I'll update the OP tomorrow, need to catch up on some rest tonight.
ETB creatures will obviously be in all of the colors, since they tend to be the best creatures by nature, but there will probably be more in red than some of the other colors since that's where the prime LD/burn cards are. (Avalanche Riders, Keldon Marauders, Keldon Champion, Keldon Vandals....a lot of Keldons...) So, yes, it would be an excellent color to combine with white.
Keldon is well represented in the cube. Are there any other locations as well represented as Keldon?
Keldon Champion always seems like the most painful of the red ETB creatures. I've seen him and Kikki Jikki across the board from me far too many times and I get shivers just thinking about it.
Right now I am also about to remove Stoneforge Mystic, because even if she can be very powerful if you already have picked 1 or 2 equipments, it is nothiing that I would take high when I don't have some of them already.
Yeah, we felt the same way. She just wasn't good enough. I'm hoping that White Knight coming in is a good sign for WW, and I think his brother Silver Knight missed him.
No sooner did I get the OP updated then I managed to trade for a few more cards.
[CARD]
Grinning Demon[/CARD] ---> Dark Confidant
Buried Alive ----> Carnophage (I don't think reanimator needs a way to get men from the deck to the yard, necessarily. I might change my mind if I ever get an Entomb, but for now I'm trying to move away from cards that only help 1 archetype.)
Scepter of Dominance ---> Mirror Entity (to help Aggro, nerf Control, although this is becoming less of a necessity. Aggro won the top 2 slots last time. I'm hoping to get a Ring of Gix soon, to replace Scepter.)
Spitting Image ----> Mystic Snake Spitting Image never quite got there. G/U is a really weak section in general, but hopefully the Snake will be decent.
Plumeveil ----> Momentary Blink Plumeveil is a lot of mana for the effect. Also, we missed Blink a lot.
Imo Scepter of Dominance isn't a control only card, because you can still use it to tap down 2 of their blocker and swing with the team or port their Karroo / Maze of Ith / only land of 1 particular color
I like Plumeveil a lot more than Momentary Blink , but I probably just played too much with this card in constructed. Spitting Image is a very underrated card, which gives you a copy of the best creature on the field every turn and I would keep it instead of that UG Cancel
Memory Jar gives you a land and 2-4 spells for 5 mana, which is great for all decks that don't have access to card draw and can enable some crazy turns.
You're 100% right about Scepter, I'd just never seen anyone use it that way. I'll try to fit it back in in the next update, but would love some suggestions for cuts if you've got 'em.
Plumeveil is awesome, but I feel like I need to fit Blink in to make everyone happy and to enable 187 abuse. Should it go back to white to make room for the veil? My problem is that white is getting really tight. I'm already going to cut some sweepers for aggro enablers as soon as I can, and even that decision hurts.
I'll give Spitting Image a second chance on your suggestion, because you're right an awful lot. I'm going to keep an eye on it though.
Spitting Image is a very underrated card, which gives you a copy of the best creature on the field every turn and I would keep it instead of that UG Cancel
Spitting Image gives you a copy of target best creature on the field, while Voidslime is a lot more than Cancel. It can stop a Mindslaver activation, Cancel cannot.
sure, spitting image can only target, treachery can only target too, but I don't see poeple playing cancel OR stifle over it.
Spitting image can win game all by itself, and is an amazing combo with ETB guys, not even close.
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I am petitioning for the end of: the Mythic rarity, the Planeswalker card type, the post-8th edition card faces, the 2010 rule changes, colorless cards that aren't artifacts or lands, the Legendary supertype, the stack, auras, multicolor cards, artifact creatures, tokens, goblins, merfolk, elves, sorceries, instants, and permanents. Basically, I just want to play with purple contraptions.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
sure, spitting image can only target, treachery can only target too, but I don't see poeple playing cancel OR stifle over it.
Spitting image can win game all by itself, and is an amazing combo with ETB guys, not even close.
Lucky me that I understand the concept of hyperbole, I might feel offended otherwise for the comparison you come up with here. Clearly what makes Voidslime good is that it is both Cancel and Stifle, if it were only one it would be bad. And of course Treachery targets, it is a Control Magic effect after all (and the best one at that). Spitting Image, however, is a Clone effect and from the experience I have with it from an early incarnation of my cube it is way too slow. It costs 6 mana and targets and if you want to use its upside (the re-usability) you need a land you can discard and 6 mana all over again. It was occasionally good of course, big repeatable spells have this tendency, but most of the time it was not.
Agreed with Konfusius, I also prefer Voidslime to Spitting Image. SI is expensive, and not nearly as flexible as Voidslime, which has about 50/50 uses as either a counterspell or a stifle. Both blue and green have such better finishing cards that in out UG decks, SI wasn't making the cut over the better cards available. Voidslime almost always makes the cut in UG, as it's flexible and affordable, the stifle effect is pretty unique to the cube, and I always welcome more countermagic into my decks.
That being said, it's still the weakest of the 4 UG cards I use, but there's nothing else in print that I'd cut it for at the moment.
There is not many better finishers than spitting image actually, since once its going all you need is more lands to continue, and it trumps any legendary creature in a 1v1 fight. Since I am in the "against" camp on the multicolour cancel variant, I could be biased, but neither me or magicmerl has been impresssed at all with voidslime where spitting image is a game winner everytime until dealt with. Especially in Midrange mirrors. There is no way any of those 4 is as good as spitting image actually, the only UG card I rate higher is simic sky swallower and Maybe mystic snake.
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I am petitioning for the end of: the Mythic rarity, the Planeswalker card type, the post-8th edition card faces, the 2010 rule changes, colorless cards that aren't artifacts or lands, the Legendary supertype, the stack, auras, multicolor cards, artifact creatures, tokens, goblins, merfolk, elves, sorceries, instants, and permanents. Basically, I just want to play with purple contraptions.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
Spitting Image just totally changes the game. When it's played you can almost see the opponent's brain thinking 'now how can I possibly win from here?'. I think it's about on the level with
Voidslime on the other hand is an incredibly colour intensive 1-for-1. I don't think that it's anywhere near the power level of the top 4 UG cards (Snake, Predator, SSS and Image in that order).
There is not many better finishers than spitting image actually, since once its going all you need is more lands to continue, and it trumps any legendary creature in a 1v1 fight. Since I am in the "against" camp on the multicolour cancel variant, I could be biased, but neither me or magicmerl has been impresssed at all with voidslime where spitting image is a game winner everytime until dealt with. Especially in Midrange mirrors. There is no way any of those 4 is as good as spitting image actually, the only UG card I rate higher is simic sky swallower and Maybe mystic snake.
Okay, so having been out of the M:TG scene for a while has made me miss some things that I haven't read carefully enough, like how Retrace doesn't exile the spell like Flashback does. I kept thinking it was some bad version of Flashback, and here it's mentioned "more lands to continue" -- so I did a double take and a re-read of the card. I was going to get Spitting Image into my cube anyway, but now I have to consider the other retracers also.
Wow, there is a lot of love for Spitting Image here! I'm just holding up my banner saying: 'there is nothing wrong with not running Spitting Image!'
All who have had success with the card should of course keep it in, if it works for you I will not try to convince you not to run it. However, as the OP seems skeptical towards the cards performance I feel obliged to point out he is not alone with this feeling. There are so many board states where Spitting Image will not help you at all. You need 6 mana and a targetable creature somewhere that you are willing to pay 6 mana to get a token copy of. Now this does not help on an empty board, making it both a poor control finisher and a suboptimal card against control. Also if you are beaten down by some weenies paying 6 mana to trade with one of them probably will not be helpful either. In a stalled midrange mirror, all right, you may have both the targets and the time to cast it more than once. But in general I think it is just not good enough.
Sure, and these things take time. The important thing is to have a critical mass of dudes so that aggro is viable.
The reason why I said that Hexmage and Cutthroat were borderline is because I rank the black aggro creatures thusly:
1. Sarcomancy
2. Carnophage
3. Vampire Lacerator
4. Nantuko Shade
5. Bloodghast
6. Dark Confidant
7. Nezumi Graverobber
8. Oona's Prowler
9. Dauthi Horror
Those guys are staples and I'm not really wanting to get into their respective order so much as to list them as the 'staples', and pretty much better than the alternatives. Then the next best of the rest are:
Vampire Hexmage
Skittering Skirge
Black Knight
Nezumi Cutthroat
Dauthi Slayer
So sure, add Cutthroat and Hexmage, they are good options and you need something in that slot to have a critical mass of dudes. But when you can, look to upgrade to the 'core' guys.
But you're the 'TO', right? Just declare time to be over in the round, their match is a draw, and give them pairings for their next opponent.
The other thing I have done in my cube is intentionally hamstrung cards that draw the game out, like Moat, The Abyss and Collective Restraint. It's not that I think that those cards are bad, I just want rounds to end at a reasonable time so we can play more magic vs other opponents. I make an exception for mana denial cards solely to enable aggro.
I like all of your includes. I do like Blood, BD and Whelk though, and run them currently. They are definitely borderline inclusions though, and cutting them isn't like 'what are you DOING?'.
Innocent Blood and Draining Whelk are 2 of my top 100 favorite cards of all time, Innocent probably being in my top 10. Like I said, it also killed me to cut Beacon of Unrest, but I've got to find space for these little critters. It may be the case that I just need to expand my cube a little bit. I'll talk to the guys and gals about it tomorrow when I bring up the LD debate, see if there's a consensus. Maybe an increase of 3 or 4 cards per color? If I increase by 3, we could do a 9 man draft with one booster left over in case Booster Tutor gets cast, although that only works the one time...Ah well, we'll work something out.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Some other cards I'm looking to add include
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
I actually am going to cut a lot of them in the coming update, going down to just the best of the best (Even if it means kissing my old pal Hallowed Burial goodbye. ) I just need to see if I can get all of the cards I'll need to replace them tomorrow night.
Also, I can see the point you're making here, but it seems an insufficient argument. Control decks are limited to playing one land a turn (in my cube, anyway. I don't run Exploration/Fastbond) while aggro can easily respond to a Wrath with 2 creatures, or Spectral Procession, or Avalanche Riders(all of which will be SO much better as soon as I can find someone to trade me a freaking Glorious Anthem.) . Armageddon is just harder to recover from.
Anyway, it's been discussed to death, I think, because it's not solely my decision. For now, we shall have to see how Hokori performs.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Nantuko Vigilante ---> Wickerbough Elder
Ravenous Baloth ----> Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Draining Whelk ---> Desertion
In the coming update, I'm going to try to reshape my cube to make each color have a more solid identity. For example, I want to have a blink/ETB theme in white and more ramp cards in green. I'll also drop Psionic Blast it's the least blue card other than Opposition to be printed with a blue frame, and I'll be moving Crystal Shard into its place and out of artifacts as soon as I get a Lodestone Golem.
On that note, are there any obvious mana ramp cards in green that I'm not running? I'm trying to get a Gaea's Cradle, and I think I remember there being a functional reprint of Llanowar Elves that I'd also like to run, but if there are others I'd love to know what they are. Also, does anyone have experience with Lotus Cobra? Seems like he could aggro/ramp at the same time, but also looks a little overrated to me.
Thanks again for all the help guys. I really love this forum.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Fyndhorn Elves is a good card to include if you're OK with doubles. You can also consider Arbor Elf who's generally the same, occasionally better, but more prone to disruption via LD.
Gaea's Cradle is very powerful and I recommend it highly. Otherwise, I can't think of too many ramp cards you're missing. Your green section is watertight, well done. Mwonvuli Acid-Moss is a favourite ramp/LD card of mine that I'd run over a few cards in there, you could give that a shot, but you've got most bases covered!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
We've appreciated Arbor Elf as an extra mana critter. It helps reach critical mass for ramp strategies which we like. It's tempting to add in something like Utopia Sprawl for a combo, but it is just not good enough on it's own. I can see the advantage of untapping a dual land to come up about as much as the disadvantage of being prone to disruption.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
White – Tokens/weenies, anthems, mass removal, blink, disenchant
Red – Hastey dudes, burn, LD (mostly non-basic), artifact hate
Black- Suicide black, creature removal, hand hate, reanimator
Blue - Counterspells, draw, thievery, bounce spells
Green- Ramp, fatties, ETB creatures, pump spells
Any suggestions regarding these? Is there something obvious that I'm missing (outside of something un-cubable, like W lifegain)? Also, keep in mind that I'm going to be running things out of theme, they'll just few and far between. ie, I'm not dropping Regrowth just because it's not one of Green's main themes, because it's still super awesome.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Green aggro or land destruction are fun choices. Green is also usually getting the most disenchant options. Also, what you have listed doesn't strike me as themes so much as what can be found withing the color in general. Mono black matters is also one. Blue artifacts. Hope this helps.
Decks
RW Blessed Destruction
BR Goblin Cult
G Elven Multiplayer
G Elven Explosion
G Can-o'-Wurms
UW Merfolk Paradise
UR Space Dragon
U Internet Lockdown
B Multiplayer Zombie Aggro
UB The Mill
EDH
WUBRG Slivers
Under Contruction
BR Kaervek's Domination
Also, both red and black have a bit of mass removal.
How big is your white blink section?
That's fair, but what I mean is that right now some of these things can't be found in my cube. I'm hoping that in the next update I'll be able to emphasize the given themes in those colors to create more of a "Block" feel, if that makes any sense. I'd like my cube to play in a similar manner to limited with regular boosters, only with 100% awesome cards. Really, what I mean is that I hope to trim away some of the cards that don't help these themes and replace them with cards that do, ie trading out Miraculous Recovery for Karmic Guide, since Guide is blink-able.
I hadn't thought about Monoblack or Artifact Blue. If there's room, those are certainly things I could look into. Thanks!
ETB creatures will obviously be in all of the colors, since they tend to be the best creatures by nature, but there will probably be more in red than some of the other colors since that's where the prime LD/burn cards are. (Avalanche Riders, Keldon Marauders, Keldon Champion, Keldon Vandals....a lot of Keldons...) So, yes, it would be an excellent color to combine with white.
When I say mass removal, I'm including all sweepers (Wrath, Austere Command, hopefully eventually Armageddon if I can convince my group) and not just the ones that destroy creatures. That said, Blacks sweepers fit the creature removal theme and Red's fit the burn theme, it's just burn not aimed at the face.
At the moment, my white section has ZERO blink cards, which disappoints me. When I update for this purpose, some cards I'm looking to add are Flickerwisp, Galepowder Mage, Parallax Wave and of course Momentary Blink in U/W. That's the point of listing these themes, is I don't know if there are cubables that I'm missing out on.
Thanks for the ideas in red, I'll probably make an effort to increase the amount of 187 dudes there too.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
[CARD]
Wilt-Leaf Liege[/CARD]---->Qasali Pridemage
Stoneforge Mystic---->White Knight(Just as everyone said, it's too hard to get her AND good equipment in the same pool.)
Stonecloaker---->Flickerwisp (Fits the theme I'm trying to build of blink in white, plus I've heard all kinds of good things about him.)
Windbrisk Heights ----> Harm's Way (A card I never saw activate exchanged for what looks like a cool combat trick. This is going to require some reorganization on my part in the OP, but that's okay.)
Makeshift Mannequin ----> Beacon of Unrest We all were missing the ability to steal artifacts. This move might not be approved of by everyone, but our group loves snatching a destroyed Jitte or previously cracked 'Slaver.
Squee, Goblin Nabob moved to colorless section thanks to all of the whining from people drafting red about how bad he is, replaced by Sulfur Elemental who I've played in the past with tremendous results.
Engineered Explosives removed to make room for Squee.
I'll update the OP tomorrow, need to catch up on some rest tonight.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Keldon is well represented in the cube. Are there any other locations as well represented as Keldon?
Keldon Champion always seems like the most painful of the red ETB creatures. I've seen him and Kikki Jikki across the board from me far too many times and I get shivers just thinking about it.
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Yeah, we felt the same way. She just wasn't good enough. I'm hoping that White Knight coming in is a good sign for WW, and I think his brother Silver Knight missed him.
No sooner did I get the OP updated then I managed to trade for a few more cards.
[CARD]
Grinning Demon[/CARD] ---> Dark Confidant
Buried Alive ----> Carnophage (I don't think reanimator needs a way to get men from the deck to the yard, necessarily. I might change my mind if I ever get an Entomb, but for now I'm trying to move away from cards that only help 1 archetype.)
Miren, the Moaning Well ----> Grand Coliseum
Scepter of Dominance ---> Mirror Entity (to help Aggro, nerf Control, although this is becoming less of a necessity. Aggro won the top 2 slots last time. I'm hoping to get a Ring of Gix soon, to replace Scepter.)
Spitting Image ----> Mystic Snake Spitting Image never quite got there. G/U is a really weak section in general, but hopefully the Snake will be decent.
Plumeveil ----> Momentary Blink Plumeveil is a lot of mana for the effect. Also, we missed Blink a lot.
Azorious Guildmage ----> Grand Arbiter Augustin IV Seems like a straight improvement. I've wanted to get the Arbiter in here for quite some time.
On another note, what is everyone's opinion of Memory Jar? I've thought about including it, but I'm not sure how well it would fly.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
You're 100% right about Scepter, I'd just never seen anyone use it that way. I'll try to fit it back in in the next update, but would love some suggestions for cuts if you've got 'em.
Plumeveil is awesome, but I feel like I need to fit Blink in to make everyone happy and to enable 187 abuse. Should it go back to white to make room for the veil? My problem is that white is getting really tight. I'm already going to cut some sweepers for aggro enablers as soon as I can, and even that decision hurts.
I'll give Spitting Image a second chance on your suggestion, because you're right an awful lot. I'm going to keep an eye on it though.
Voidslime ---> Spitting Image
Cool on Memory Jar, I'll probably make a slot for it coming up. Anyone else have luck with it?
Thanks, eidolon, and everyone.
Cube and EDH are pretty much the best Magic formats in the world. If you aren't playing them, you should be.
Spitting Image gives you a copy of target best creature on the field, while Voidslime is a lot more than Cancel. It can stop a Mindslaver activation, Cancel cannot.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Spitting image can win game all by itself, and is an amazing combo with ETB guys, not even close.
Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
Lucky me that I understand the concept of hyperbole, I might feel offended otherwise for the comparison you come up with here. Clearly what makes Voidslime good is that it is both Cancel and Stifle, if it were only one it would be bad. And of course Treachery targets, it is a Control Magic effect after all (and the best one at that). Spitting Image, however, is a Clone effect and from the experience I have with it from an early incarnation of my cube it is way too slow. It costs 6 mana and targets and if you want to use its upside (the re-usability) you need a land you can discard and 6 mana all over again. It was occasionally good of course, big repeatable spells have this tendency, but most of the time it was not.
Even if I was not playing Voidslime I think I would not include Spitting Image in my Top 4 UG, I'd rather play Snakeform, Temporal Spring or Lorescale Coatl.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
That being said, it's still the weakest of the 4 UG cards I use, but there's nothing else in print that I'd cut it for at the moment.
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Copy this sig to join the cause. Cuz, ya know, Wizards makes decisions based on sigs.
Voidslime on the other hand is an incredibly colour intensive 1-for-1. I don't think that it's anywhere near the power level of the top 4 UG cards (Snake, Predator, SSS and Image in that order).
Okay, so having been out of the M:TG scene for a while has made me miss some things that I haven't read carefully enough, like how Retrace doesn't exile the spell like Flashback does. I kept thinking it was some bad version of Flashback, and here it's mentioned "more lands to continue" -- so I did a double take and a re-read of the card. I was going to get Spitting Image into my cube anyway, but now I have to consider the other retracers also.
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All who have had success with the card should of course keep it in, if it works for you I will not try to convince you not to run it. However, as the OP seems skeptical towards the cards performance I feel obliged to point out he is not alone with this feeling. There are so many board states where Spitting Image will not help you at all. You need 6 mana and a targetable creature somewhere that you are willing to pay 6 mana to get a token copy of. Now this does not help on an empty board, making it both a poor control finisher and a suboptimal card against control. Also if you are beaten down by some weenies paying 6 mana to trade with one of them probably will not be helpful either. In a stalled midrange mirror, all right, you may have both the targets and the time to cast it more than once. But in general I think it is just not good enough.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."