The white features some good single removal cards and bomb mass removal like wrath, balance and armageddon. The creatures feature a good curve with powerful finishers and weenies. There are also minor themes of reanimator and protection. White's overall plan is to swarm with weenies, control the midgame with removal and lockdown and reset the board as needed, moving back into weenie mode or a finisher creature.
Blue Features an array of powerful finishing creatures and a heavy compliment of counterspells, which are an amazing answer to the bombs each other color has. Minor themes of card draw, bounce, and unexpected removal are also present. Overall blue wants to wait it out under a counter/draw scheme and wrap things up in late game with a huge flier.
Black's bag of tricks is very deep. There's reanimator, Land Destruction, discard, card draw, creature recurrence, and a whole lot of answers to creatures. Black is very versatile and yet still features very strong creatures and game-swinging spells. Overall black is unpredictable. One minute it looks like a weenie suicide deck and the next it moves into a sustainable longgame with creature recurrence and card draw.
More than any other color, Red is focused. Almost all of the cards are centered on damaging players and creatures or swinging into the red zone. There's a fair amount of mass removal and a few odds and ends mechanics, but mostly you can expect powerful burn. Overall Red wants to curve out with creatures and burn; denying you mana would be a nice bonus.
With Green creatures you get a good body with an ability that backs the whole thing up. Keep mana open to regenerate creatures and replace lost cards with recurrence effects. Other effects include mana fixing and card drawing. Even with the green spells you are likely to get a creature and some other effect. Overall Green wants to ennable huge creatures and multicolor action while curving out efficient beaters, starting early in the game with aggro and finishing with a big bomb.
The Gold cards are powerful but require a much stronger color commitment to play. I made sure that of the thirty-three cards, there were at least two of each two color combination. The last ten could be of any combination, making sure there was a compromise between power and color balance. I didn't want to force there to be three cards of each color combo because frankly some color combinations just have more powerful cards.
There are a few artifact creatures that many colors want, but the main purpose of artifacts is the mana-fixing and some savage control cards. Not to mention a few game-winning equipment as well.
..........Cube Philosophy: I made my Cube for a smallish playgroup to play limited singleton with the most powerful cards I own. This means that (and some of this is obvious) only one of each card, by name. It means that I won't exclude a card because it is too powerful. The point of this is to play with the most powerful cards. I will exclude some cards that break from the Vintage standards: that means no dexterity cards, no ante cards, and no silver bordered cards that would cause rules confusions. (Frazzled Editor almost made the cut but was taken out.)
..........Criteria for Cards: The idea is to make a limited format with the most powerful cards, so power is pretty important. However, things like mana-fixing, mana curves, utility, creature balance, and archetype support are important elements of winning that can sometimes mean the better card is one that is less overtly powerful. I chose cards without worrying about color balance. This means some color could be more powerful or weaker, but so far the only standout has been blue. Who saw that coming? I didn't go out of my way to include mechanics if they didn't have any powerful cards representing them, and I didn't bother about the color pie (if green was better than red at killing artifacts, for example.) But I did try to play to each color's strengths. The cube is limited by my card collection, but I'm willing to spend to expand and update the cube. (But not as much as for power.) The list for the Wizards '07 Invitational Cube was a helpful guide as well as Evan Irwin's Cube. But those sources were only guides and I did not copy anything or start with a pre-made list.
..........The numbers: I have a cube of 289 cards. That breaks down into 38 cards of each color, with 33 gold, 33 artifacts, and 33 lands. My cube is smaller than most, which aim for 8-person (about 400 cards). I don't have my eye on making the cube any bigger right now for two reasons. First, the tighter the size, the more concentrated the power level is. Secondly, I don't want to have to make the epic search for the exact same kind of sleeves. The colors are about half creatures and overall it is probably about 40-45% creatures.
..........How to make packs: Making packs is easy for me because the eight categories of cards I have are all roughly equal. I shuffle each of the eight piles seperately (W,U,B,R,G,O,A,L.) Then I take two cards from each pile and make a seperate pile. That's 16 cards, which I shuffle, and then take one card out without looking at it. Usually I make the cards three or five at a time (draft or sealed), which makes for packs that look more random and interesting. For three, take six cards of each pile, shuffle them all together (48 cards) and remove three cards face down (45 cards), then divide into three piles of 15. For sealed (five packs), take ten cards of each color and shuffle together (80 cards), then remove five cards (75 cards) face down, which you then divide into five piles of 15.
..........Cube Archetypes: U/x Control: Counterspells backed up with a threat in the off color or a way to protect a finisher creature. This also can play out as a faster U/x tempo deck where the blue control elements focus on the later game and allow the early beaters to continue to swing.
W/ Aggro Control: (Reanimator) Powerful selection of agressive and defensive cards in these two colors with a strong backup plan of reanimation. Splashes green well as a mana fixer and as reanimation supplement. R/ Suicide Control: Burn and Land Destruction. Could run sputteringly in some games, flat out wins in others. Hard to splash because you need a strong commitment to early game cards like discard and land destruction, so stay in these two colors exclusively. With many of the cards focused on working in early game, the finishers have to be carefully selected to remain relevant if the game plan fails while still working with the discard/LD themes.
G/ Horde: Agressive cheap creatures backed up with broken equipement, reset buttons, stellar midrange and huge finishers. Splash red for reach, blue for late game counterspells. The key is to curve out and then control with a splash color or simply apply more pressure than your opponent can handle, like with equipment. You must start attacking for two as soon as you possibly can.
5-Color Hub (G): Spend pack 1 favoring green's mana-fixers and accelerators, talismans and lands much higher than normal. Then cherry pick as you please from the best cards in every color for the rest of the draft. Morph and splashable bombs help here, but don't forget to cement your place in green (at least till pack 2 winds down) so you don't get drafted out of it in later picks.
These cards might soon find a place in the Cube. Some new cards, some are oversights or not owned by me (yet), and some have a niche to fill that wasn't initially seen.
Annul - yes, blue spells are a very tight list, but a cheap answer to broken artifacts has to be considered Skeletal Scrying - Seems like this might be easier to cast than one might think. Shattering Spree - good artifact hate in red -who knew? Stonewood Invocation - a good giant growth, but pretty expensive. Sprout Swarm - however, the signs are favorable that the token token generator will be the guildmage. enlightened tutor gamewinning equipment, plz. kthx mystical tutor I can has a counterspell? Creeping Mold Not sexy, but a not often a dead draw (unlike Naturalize). Crime / Punishment Ambassador Laquatus has been suggested as a blue finisher. Browbeat is potent red draw. Overrule is a playable replacement for Absorb should the (U/W) cards be too lacking. Avalanche Riders as an LD mainstay. Tolarian Academy because... i dunno, dead catgirls? Honden of Seeing Winds: as a slow-burn control deck fuel Honden of Night's Reach: as a way to shut down slower decks. Deadwood Treefolk as recursion and a nice fetch target for combo. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker -Yes, I know this card was recently taken out. Wrongly, I think. It's an important card that serves multiple finite and infinite combos. Protean Hulk: gret combo card that has potency on its lonesome as well. Flash is expensive :mad:>.>:argh: Reveillark Also not a cheap card.... but serves combo well. Body Double: serves combo and reanimator. Nice. Academy Rector - I'm not even going to look up the price on this one. False Prophet another leaves play effect for kiki and flash. Nantuko Husk as a sac outlet. Buried Alive ennables a lot of combos, but isn't great outside of combo or reanimator... or threshold. Sky Hussar and kiki is game. Is there any other interaction I'm missing?
These cards have not been living up to the standards of the Cube. It might be a mismatch of synergy or archetype or simply a power problem.
Dismantling Blow there's probably a better disenchant variant Grim Harvest -a lot of potential but no one has used it. Undead Gladiator Just overcosted. Looks like an ideal spikish creature/card engine, but isn't. Ith, High Arcanist Then again, I'd have to order an absorb to replace this. Angel of Despair Good in a keiga sort of way and better if I can get in momEntaRyBlink, but pretty costly. (WWBB) Lightning Angel specific mana anyone? Shivan Wurm has gating. I feel like there are better answers. Shizo, Death's Storehouse a little meh. Is there nothing else I long for? It is very easy to put in decks, though.... Samurai of the Pale Curtain - could be 1W 2/x instead, to work better with reanimator.
Although they aren't as influential as they are in other drafts, some cards are still a head and shoulder above the others in terms of power. These cards do not get passed because they are always worth splashing color or archetype or at minimum hatedrafting.
For one reason or another, these cards just didn't cut it. A moment of blindness or a too-kind appraisal allowed this card to slip in. Or perhaps it just doesn't fit in the Cube (like Cranial Extraction.) The biggest reasons to remove cards, though, is to fit mana curves and archetypes.
**W Waylay is not an eot Ball Lightning. Jotun Grunt belongs in a cube that gets threshold on turn 2. Oblation was interesting but lacked raw power.
**U waterfront bouncer does what? bounce reanimator targets? Why not Repulse? Arcanis the omnipotent was cut for costs. Still an excellent draw spell, if slow. Court Hussar belongs in constructed where it is more than a three-mana Brainstorm.
**B Ichorid belongs in a constructed deck that loads the yard with 37 cards on turn 2. Buried Alive was too deep in the reanimator theme to actually be relevant. Cabal Patriarch was expensive. Undead Gladiator is not a spikish draw engine. It merely gives your cards cycling2:symb::symb:. Reckless Spite is only good in the window after your opponent has two creatures and before you can't afford the five life.
**R Icefall will not ever get recovered. Viashino Heretic was supposed to do what? Wait around for artifacts and do nothing else? Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker may return if his combo card comes up. Too expensive ATM. Skarrgan Firebird too expensive in the most bloated color.
**G Tornado Elemental makes me think green was the most bloated color. Beacon of Creation wants 15 forests. Limited cannot satisfy it. Greater Good is only great with bomb creatures. May return one day, though.
**:symur: Kaervek the Merciless expensive. Nuff Said. Blizzard Specter was simply the weakest link in an overloaded color combo.
**1 Scrabbling Claws If you thought reanimation ennabling was degenerate... Su-Chi is awesome for getting manaburn.
**LAND
Current Issues: Pyroblast vs. Magma Jet
Which red X spells?
Looking for favoring hybrid more in place of bad/wierd gold cards
Looking to lower the curve: especially including one drops with two power.
Building a core of Approximately 15 combo cards that work well together
More Morph creatures for the next big update!
Which card to replace Shivan Wurm?
- Su-Chi (has it ever been useful?)
- Beacon of Creation
- Undead Gladiator
- Rainbow Efreet
Also, white seems to have mostly just huge, game-swinging noncreature spells. Maybe something smaller, like an Obliviong Ring, could make for a more controled destruction.
Just my 0,02€
Thanks for the comments!
I would replace su-chi with masticore if I owned one, but I think it has some potential. I'd like to see it get played a few times because that's the best way to test a wierdish ability. Part of it being in the cube is that there really aren't that many great artifact creatures.... At least, the ratio is a lot lower than for any of the colors.
Beacon of creation has gotten the "doubt mark twice now." Maybe it should get replaced, but then again, it is an excellent topdeck, and it's not too bad on turn 4 or five either. It's under suspicion, though, I agree.
Undead Gladiator, and also Ichorid, don't seem to be living up to the hype. Again, having these cards see play, and more than a few times would be the best way to test them, but after a while, some cards are just going to get cut becuase they aren't attractive enought to get played. These two cards play into a very serious concern I have about the graveyard theme in the cube. There are a lot of cards themed around the graveyard and I'm starting to doubt if that design element was included in error. Is Jotun Grunt Good enough? What about buried alive, which is a second level card that depends on other graveyard cards to work at all? I know some cards like golgari-grave troll are worth it, and the other reanimator cards like debtor's knell, animate dead, zombify, and resurrection. But where to draw the line is tough because I think I misguaged the power level of the graveyard theme for some cards.
And while I haven't seen rainbow efreet in action yet, I think that's only an accident (have only drafted twice). On paper the efreet looks like the perfect control finisher. It's an evasive creature with an unbelievably good protection scheme. (Nothing kills a phased out creature, so just hold UU - it's better than untargetabilty since it overcomes wrath and sac effects.) It's like anurid brushopper with no discard cost. I expect good things from rainbow efreet. And oblivion ring is just an oversight that I need to pick up the next time I buy cards. I think mulldrifter goes in, too; I just don't know what it replaces. It's cheap and really good.
What's a good card to replace beacon of creation? I'm not necessarily looking to replace it with anything similar because it's not like it's filling a needed role. What does the green lack? (It should be a spell, though) I'm alreqady prettty sure that I'm going to replace tornado elemental with sakura-tribe elder
No Exalted Angel? Not like it's hard to get one :).
I do own one, three actually. I just have them in a deck. I love the cube and exalted certainly deserves to go in it, but I also want to be able to keep playing constructed, too. And they are kind of expensive. I guess I'd put it on my buy list if white were somehow lacking in awesome flying beaters. Still, it should be in, agreed.
Yeah, I just realised Efreet was 3/1. And, it has flying. Wow, I was tired yesterday.
Ideas for replacing Beacon:
- Tooth and Nail
- Biorhythm
- Roar of the Wurm / Wurmcalling
- some acceleration/fixing
- combat trick
I really don't get Biorhythm. It's eight mana, which means I expect a whole lot from it. But you really have to sieze the moment with this card because cast at the wrong time it loses for you. You still have to have another threat to back up an eight mana spell.
I was thinking about running the split second giant growth, that costs 3G and gives +5/+5 (and untargetability i think). Wurmcalling is also pretty expensive, although it is a great lategame topdeck. But I'm trying to get the cube to be less of a longgame fattie type meta and a little more tempo-curve oriented. I don't have any tooth and nail, though that is an expensive card totally worth it.
I really wanted to put in temple of the false god but didn't. I'm kind of glad because running a two color deck is pretty tough, especially given the amount of cards that can tempt you into a third color. And you can't afford colorless mana in a three color deck. Besides, the late game X-spells don't seem to be doing the winning like you might epxect. It's so much more about an aggro fattie army or a controlled board with a single solid creature.
I have had the pleasure of drafting Wamyc's cube a few times and I thought I might share my thoughts and offer some suggestions. A few themes were muddled, a few colors I felt were a little mis-represented and there were some unneeded redundancies. I'll go color by color and include examples from the drafts in which I participated.
White
First Impression: A solid color. I drafted this color the first time around. (1st pick Akroma, second pick Decree of Dustice.)
Observations: Shadow creatures with pro red own. White spells change the game.
Critique: Need a weenie or two to better represent the color. White Knight, Soul Warden, Golden Pudding or Isamaru, Hound of Konda are a few suggestions. I might also remove the following cards... Waylay, Sunscape Battlemage (I know it's part of a cycle, but it's a poor performer) and Guardian of the Guildpact.
Blue
First Impression: This color does what it is supposed to do. It draws, it bounces and it counters. In short, it is annoying... as blue should be.
Observations: The player who drafts blue with a splash of another color will win. Since blue is the only color that does what it's designed to do, it will win. The other colors have no answer to counters.
Critique: Arcanis may cost too much, perhaps exchange him for Ambassador Laquatus.
Black
First Impression: 85% awesome. Cabal Patriarch stinks up the place.
Observations: A lot of black splashing going on. A lot of classic black. The newer black spells selected seemed to be for flavor not impact.
Critique: Take out... Cabal Patriarch, Skeletal Vampire, Reckless Spite, Sinkhole and Slaughter Pact. These cards live up to the themes but not for the best in black. (Sinkhole no good because of the 2 land killing lands you have. LD should be in red.) Faceless Butcher, Withered Wretch, Drain Life, Living Death should find their way in. What kept Nightscape Battlemage out of black?
Red
First Impression: Where's the beef?
Observations: Lotta red splashing, lotta sub-par critters.
Critique: There are too many legends in red to make Kiki-Jiki worthy to be in the cube. Damage is nice, LD is better and no color does that better than red. If blue gets counter spell, red should have LD. Pyrohemia is redundant and should be a stone rain. Icefall and Aftershock should be taken out for more efficient spells or creatures.Tangarth has yet to prove himself. I would rather he was a Subterranean Spirit or a Bogardan Firefiend. Mogg Fanatic, Desolation Giant, Volcanic Dragon, Avalanche Riders or Wake of Destruction.
Red needs help.
Green
First Impression: Something smells fishy, there are no elves... is this really green?
Observations: Jack of all trades master of none. There are very few first drafts in this color (compared to others.)
Critique: Tornado Elemental and Arashi are too similar and too boring. They sit high on the curve and are poor performers. Sakura Tribe Elder is already in, I know that. Virulent Sliver maybe? Take out Harrow and the Beacon. Replace them with Biorhythm, Tooth and Nail or Trophy Hunter. I think fog is better than constant mists in this format, but I would include neither.
Multi Color
No issues. Always something useful.
Artifact
Juggernaut and Su-Chi could be Ensnaring Bridge and Mox Diamond.
Land
One to many land killers. Get rid of Wasteland. Replace it with Desert, Quicksand or Thawing Glaciers.
That's all. I don't have an issue with the duplicates (except pyrohemia/pestilence). I do feel that your Spikey-ness prevents you from seeing the true focus of white, green and red. But time will tell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people forget, this is a game that is supposed to be fun.
White
First Impression: A solid color. I drafted this color the first time around. (1st pick Akroma, second pick Decree of Dustice.)
Observations: Shadow creatures with pro red own. White spells change the game.
Critique: Need a weenie or two to better represent the color. White Knight, Soul Warden, Golden Pudding or Isamaru, Hound of Konda are a few suggestions. I might also remove the following cards... Waylay, Sunscape Battlemage (I know it's part of a cycle, but it's a poor performer) and Guardian of the Guildpact.
I agree that waylay is under question. It's decent, but it really needs one or two more crusade effects to take off. On paper it's a white ball lightning with only one specific mana. It's actually a really strong weenie card, even if all of the attack power is concentrated in one turn. It's splashable and it's exactly what aggro is asking for. The only reason I would take it out is because I was afraid your opponent would have more than one blocker to make them irrelevant. This isn't an issue except in lategame. I think a splashable ball lightning is up to the cube's standards; the only issue is that waylay is a crappy topdeck and ball lightning is a great one.
I think I'd include auriok champion before soul warden, but neither really excites me. Lifegain isn't all that great, and there is only one opponent unlike multiplayer, the best home of those cards. Isamaru's a good suggestion (if I had one), and I might add my single copy of savannah lions if I take it out of the deck it's currently in (which is somewhat likely.) Attacking for two is what you really want from the weenie strategy, not so much life gain. Weenie is already tough to pull off in limited because limited favors a much more belllike curve, so it's best to make the weenies as savage as possible.
Sunscape Battlemage isn't in because it's part of a cycle - it's there on its own merits. No cards were included because of cycles. The ability to kill a game-winning flier or to mulldrifter is a pretty big deal. Plus the card has to option to be very modular, which is a major plus to making this card relevant nomatter when it is drawn. Guardian of the Guildpact isn't very shiny, I agree. But it is one of the best protection creatures. perhaps mistral charger would be good in its place.
Blue
First Impression: This color does what it is supposed to do. It draws, it bounces and it counters. In short, it is annoying... as blue should be.
Observations: The player who drafts blue with a splash of another color will win. Since blue is the only color that does what it's designed to do, it will win. The other colors have no answer to counters.
Critique: Arcanis may cost too much, perhaps exchange him for Ambassador Laquatus.
Laquatus really shins in late game where you have the excess mana to use his ability while retaining control of the game with counterspells. I don't think arcanis is ready for the chopping block just because even though he's really timmy-sized, he's a timmy-sized ancestral recall on a stick. How many times do you need to activate him to win? Once or twice, I think. Respectable body, too, not to mention that he's got a protection ability. Still, laquatus deseves a second look. I do think it would be best to be kind of modular about the milling, or at least to consider it that way. Perhaps laquatus is good enough on his own, but I would be more sold if there were other milling cards up to snuff. At the moment I'm not quite feeling glimpse the unthinkable. Maybe in place of waterfront bouncer.... I really need to make a serious appraisal of the mana curve again. I did it once before for each color and card type, but another is in order.
I guess I'm fairly at odds about this whole issue and it warrants further reflection.
Black
First Impression: 85% awesome. Cabal Patriarch stinks up the place.
Observations: A lot of black splashing going on. A lot of classic black. The newer black spells selected seemed to be for flavor not impact.
Critique: Take out... Cabal Patriarch, Skeletal Vampire, Reckless Spite, Sinkhole and Slaughter Pact. These cards live up to the themes but not for the best in black. (Sinkhole no good because of the 2 land killing lands you have. LD should be in red.) Faceless Butcher, Withered Wretch, Drain Life, Living Death should find their way in. What kept Nightscape Battlemage out of black?
I disagree that LD should be in red. It can be there when red ponies up a two mana LD spell. I do plan on adding army ants and lowering the cost of icefall to pillage, so that should jumpstart the LD theme. Speaking to stone rain, as I'm sure you will mention it when we get to the red, that card goes in a larger cube, just not a base 35 cube, maybe after molten rain goes in.
Cabal Patriarch - I don't see what's not to like. But when it comes to skeletal vampire, I'm trusting reports that the card really works. It is six for five in the sky, and has the hallmark evasion and protection abilities of a good finisher. But I agree that Faceless butcher is probably better than either of these two cards.
Still, reckless spite is, more often than not, a plague wind. And slaughter pact is really worth it. Sadly I don't own a living death, as that card would shore up the reanimator theme nicely.
And nightscape battlemage just doesn't cut it - 6 for LD is no good, and 6 for double bounce? I'm not drooling for the vanilla 2/2 either. The bounce ability is worth it, I suppose, but I think it takes two good abilities to justify a battlemage. Like Ana battlemage; I'd run that if I owned one.
Red
First Impression: Where's the beef?
Observations: Lotta red splashing, lotta sub-par critters.
Critique: There are too many legends in red to make Kiki-Jiki worthy to be in the cube. Damage is nice, LD is better and no color does that better than red. If blue gets counter spell, red should have LD. Pyrohemia is redundant and should be a stone rain. Icefall and Aftershock should be taken out for more efficient spells or creatures.Tangarth has yet to prove himself. I would rather he was a Subterranean Spirit or a Bogardan Firefiend. Mogg Fanatic, Desolation Giant, Volcanic Dragon, Avalanche Riders or Wake of Destruction.
Red needs help.
"Where's the beef?" 9 of the 18 creatures represent more than four power's worth of damage, so I don't see your point.
Pyrohemia/pestilence isn't any more redundant than wrath/damnation, naturalize/disenchant, or savannah lions/jackal pup would be. If it matters at all, redundancy of good cards is a good thing, not a bad thing. And just like cycles, each "redundant" card was put in the cube on its own merits.
Kiki Jiki has pretty much shown himself to be far too out of place. Too much legendariness in red, too much red in his cost. He won't be missed and is a welcome open slot to replace.
Tahngarth is a sloppy mess in your eyes: I get that. But giving him -1/-1, losing vigalance and his arena ability, and getting tremor on a stick does not make him better. Hm.. I don't know how, but I don't own any avalanche riders (but they are pretty decent), desolation giant is a huge mess of needing specific mana, wake of destruction is only going to shut down 50% of your opponent's deck for 3RRR (and I don't have one).
Again, blue didn't get counterspells because blue is awesome and "should" be powerful. That was not my approach. Blue is the most powerful because it has the most powerful cards, and the same goes for each color. I did not attempt to make any color more powerful and spent a lot of time and thinking trying to make each color as powerful as possible, including green. There are weaker colors because of Wizards and perhaps because of what I do and don't own. The colors are decently balanced but in the most powerful formats, some colors and mechanics rise to the top and others just can't cut it.
Blue got counterspells because counterspells are savage and win games more often than the other blue cards in question. It's not my concern to preserve every mechanic and make the game have all its parts. The cube only gets something if it's powerful, or the card is needed to balance something. LD is powerful, but it relies heavily on constructedness to get that power. You need 8-16 LD cards and 4-6 turn one accelerators to lock out the win. It suffers from the translation to limited.
Green
First Impression: Something smells fishy, there are no elves... is this really green?
Observations: Jack of all trades master of none. There are very few first drafts in this color (compared to others.)
Critique: Tornado Elemental and Arashi are too similar and too boring. They sit high on the curve and are poor performers. Sakura Tribe Elder is already in, I know that. Virulent Sliver maybe? Take out Harrow and the Beacon. Replace them with Biorhythm, Tooth and Nail or Trophy Hunter. I think fog is better than constant mists in this format, but I would include neither.
Fog is not better than constant mists. Essentially free Buyback for 1 is tech. This card has precendent in cubes and I'm really surprised you would doubt it. The reason this card is good is that it buys you many, many turns of one-sided combat, which wins. In the same way, I know you like slivers, but a one-of poisonous creature on one of the least-impressive bodies ever (1 for a 1/1 is the worst body in limited - 2 for a 2/x is soo much better.)? How exactly do you ever connect with that guy ten times? And if you connect fewer than ten times, how is this guy not eager cadet?
I can understand some doubt about Tornado elemental, but arashi is powerfully sized with a great flying killer ability that's essentially free gravy. They are not in the same boat - 5 is the top of a good mana curve and 7 is way over it.
Beacon has a one-way ticket for a constructed place where you can run 20 forests in a deck, and I may even splurge and buy a tooth and nail, as that card defines "expensive but worth it."
Which is funny because I think there's a lot of editing to be done here. Maybe that's because of the system of open slots for the last ten once each color combo gets two cards...
Artifact
Juggernaut and Su-Chi could be Ensnaring Bridge and Mox Diamond.
Ensnaring Bridge is good in very specific odd decks: weenie decks that run outt of steam and have some backup plan, and control decks that don't have cards in hand. I guess it would be a good compliment to blue weenie that wants to win with one and two power creatures. It's worth considering.
Land
One to many land killers. Get rid of Wasteland. Replace it with Desert, Quicksand or Thawing Glaciers.
If only I had a thawing glaciers. But although that would give me pause, I think wasteland would be better of being some other card besides the nearly obsolete desert. Well, I suppose desert lets you trade up, but blocking means you're losing. Besides, don't you want an LD theme? Most non-basics are the best targets anyway...
That's all. I don't have an issue with the duplicates (except pyrohemia/pestilence). I do feel that your Spikey-ness prevents you from seeing the true focus of white, green and red. But time will tell.
Well, at least I've only failed to see 60% of the game.
Anyway, I plan to drop the curve a little overall, favor fewer specific mana a bit more, and change up some cards for the next time we play.
I did consider it, but you have to tell me how to win games with it. You should at least realise that the card is not an obviously good card and try to make a case for it. I mean, krosan cloudscraper wins games, but it's too expensive and is fairly fragile for that investment. Biorhythm isn't thirteen ten mana, but it is a fragile win. If your opponent is holding any burn, you lose after spending 6GG. If your opponent has more creatures than you, you lose out by playing it. If your opponent has equal creatures than you, you can't swing and win. If your opponent has any creature kill spell, you lose out in the math - and you may lose the game if they can get rid of all of your creatures to kill, burn, or bounce, which is a whole lot easier to do when you aren't spending 6GG in that turn (meaning they are a lot more likely to have the mana to cast the burn, bounce and kill). It's a dead card when you have six mana in play. It's dead when you play your seventh land. And if you have all this mana and your opponent doesn't have kill, burn, bonce, and you have more creatures and better creatures, don't you win already? And if not aren't you better off casting another big creature that doesn't lower your life total or perhaps casting fireball, capsize with buyback, debtor's knell, a huge dragon, sword of fire and ice, balance. I don't expect this to convince you because you like the card a lot. I just think you deserve to have some reasons why it's not up to the standards of the cube.
Final thoughts: lowering the mana curve will help with counterspells, and as many of them are fairly expensive (4 and up). LD deserves another look as an archetype for R/B to push a bit more. It's certainly a way to win awesome fast that can compete with counterspells, just as discard is. Quagnoth is also probably going to get in the mix in green, which basically reads "pro blue on the stack, pro removal in play." Also, you and Excise need to start cutting into blue more often. We need to cut blue up savagely. It is the most powerful color, so play white blue or red blue and he should be playing blue black or blue green. Blue is too powerful to pass, honestly, and even a few cards in blue are worth splashing for, so if two players draft blue, it's usually deep enough to support both of those players.
-Waylay is errated so that it doesn't work as a eot Ball Lightning anymore
-Skeletal Vampire is one of the best black finishers ever printed. He's pretty much second only to Kokusho in that category.
-I do recommend a heavily increased aggressive focus. This requires some redundancy and possibly some more "meh" creatures that simply fill curve and P/T, but the end result is worth it. Having a way to punish greedy decks is key to having a balanced cube.
I would like to give Sunscape Battlemage a go someday as his draw ability appears quite nice. I already run Mulldrifter and Phyrexian Gargantua in my Cube, and Battlemage and Citanul Woodreaders sitting aside for consideration.
Just one thought: I think he meant to say Gemhide Sliver, but mistook the name for Virulent. Gemhide is actually quite decent, as it is a two mana Birds.
We've had some IRL discussions in which popeclone mentioned virulent sliver before. He likes slivers and likes poison, but as I mentioned, I don't think virulent sliver really cuts it. Gemhide I did consider, as it's a great mana fixer. It's worth considering as the perfect way to expand green's 5-color support role. I'm inclined to include it if/when I expand the cube as mana-fixing is an important green role that makes the color worth playing. Being able to cherrry pick other color's bomsb makes a green (normally creature based) deck much more worth it. That's why harrow isn't going anywhere. Mana fixing, I think needs a stronger presence in the green, not less.
-Waylay is errated so that it doesn't work as a eot Ball Lightning anymore
-Skeletal Vampire is one of the best black finishers ever printed. He's pretty much second only to Kokusho in that category.
-I do recommend a heavily increased aggressive focus. This requires some redundancy and possibly some more "meh" creatures that simply fill curve and P/T, but the end result is worth it. Having a way to punish greedy decks is key to having a balanced cube.
I would like to give Sunscape Battlemage a go someday as his draw ability appears quite nice. I already run Mulldrifter and Phyrexian Gargantua in my Cube, and Battlemage and Citanul Woodreaders sitting aside for consideration.
Waylay has been re-errata'd to be playable as originally printed. They undid all of their errata that was based on nerfing power level about a year ago.
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Put three 2/2 white Knight creature tokens into play. They gain substance until end of turn. Remove them from the game when they lose substance.
Mulldrifter is just a matter of me getting one, (I haven't bought packs since FS) and Phyrexian Gargantua was a card I considered. I suppose the body is pretty impressive and it is a night's whisper on legs. I don't think phyrexian rager is worth it, though, do you? And isn't citanul woodreaders just a kind of dead body? Actually, checking the card link, I can see that it's a 1/4, which is much better at blocking than the 1/3 I thought it was. It's still pretty much dead aside card draw - what green decks want their green creatures to be defensive? I'd rather harmonize, which is another card and two mana cheaper. The modular element is dead imo, no one wants a straight-up 1/4; the only way to play this card is with kicker. (unless you have lonely equipment, I suppose.)
I do plan on getting the creature curve more agressive and accepting a bit more meh. It's important to have that curve filled, from 2 to 5 evenly. And Magic has definitely concentrated its most powerful cards at ,, and 6. But I don't see skeletal vampire's awesomeness. The batspawning is so expensive. If you have nothing else to do, he's a slow meloku. But meloku can start getting incrimental advantages with 1, not 3BB. Which is not to say that just because meloku is better that skeletal vampire isn't worth it. I think he (like a lot of cards - *tahngarth*) needs to have us treat it with a little more confidence and test runs.
Waylay has been re-errata'd to be playable as originally printed. They undid all of their errata that was based on nerfing power level about a year ago.
No it hasn't it still gains substance which means no matter what they are gone the turn you played it. There are plenty of cards which still have errata that makes them worse than whats printed on the card.
Also thawing glaciers is still like that.. Zodiac dragon is still power level errata'd to non-existance aswell.
No it hasn't it still gains substance which means no matter what they are gone the turn you played it. There are plenty of cards which still have errata that makes them worse than whats printed on the card.
Also thawing glaciers is still like that.. Zodiac dragon is still power level errata'd to non-existance aswell.
Yeah, you're right. I had misread 314.3 in the CompRules.
another open slot!
What a dick move for wizards to only change some of the power errata. It's a stupid policy, especially since these cards in question are only played in formats that are used to banning/restricing. I don't see how the errata really changes thawing glaciers, but zodiac dragon and waylay deserve to be as printed. It's not like zodiac dragon breaks psychatog. I'm pretty sure dr. teeth is good all by his lonesome. And who is freaking worried about waylay's power level? They just need to accept they made a mistake in printing and let is stand. It's not like skullclamp wasn't a mistake of a similar sort. I guess if the designer is stupid, it stands. If the editor is stupid, it doesn't.
Zodiac Dragon def breaks tog, and even worse wild mongrel. Mox, Land, mongrel, discard anger(or not.. its not like an infinite/infinite creature in play is bad board position on turn 1), discard dragon 500 billion times, gg, 4 summoners pact, 4 pact of negation. etc. Definitely better than flash/hulk and thats already borderline. Not to mention its $150 while not being played at all.. If it became 4 of in the best deck in the format only lotus would stand a chance at being more expensive.
Wizard's doesn't consider these erratas, power level errata. Like time vault, they call it "restoring the original purpose" of the card.
THe main purpose of a cube is also to play cards "As Written" for more brokeness. I play Chaos orb in my Cube (Errated as destroy target permanent) and also Zodiac Dragon (As written, to force the combo draft)
Cube players shouldn't care of DCI and WotC Cards such are Gifts Given are even unplayable if you consider MtG rules (Can't putt cards from your opponent's deck in your hand if you follow MtG rules) but Cube rules can allow this.
About strong B finishers : I still prefer Sengir Nosferatu to Skeletal Vampire. and both are far of Kokusho and Ink-eyes
About Biorhythym... "but you have to tell me how to win games with it."
Lifegain is better than you give it credit for. Loxodon Warhammer, Exalted Angel, Mourning Thrull all do very well due to Lifegain. I'm not advocating fountain of youth, but judicious applications of lifegain critters/spells could be beneficial.
Bio is a very green way to outright win. Reconsider banning it for CC reasons, it's in the mana color. It is a topdeck win in quite a few situations. all you have to do is make sure you have the mana. You say Arcanis is for Johnny, what about Bio?
Popeclone = Pro Bio. Pro LD.
What about Elvish Piper?
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Some people forget, this is a game that is supposed to be fun.
I hope playing the cube gets better and becomes more fun. I have a number of criticisms on the current state of the cube and the philosophy behind it.
Redundancy There are too many dup cards in this set. I don't mean multiple discard effects or burn spells, I mean dups. Like Calciderm and Blastoderm, or Resurrection and Zombify. I challenge the notion that these dup cards are good for the cube. With as few slots as the cube already has, it is very important to give each color cards that support its goals. In the example of Calciderm and Blastoderm, Blastoderm fits into a green aggro build that plays Troll Ascetic and Phantom Centaur, whereas White has another in a long line of temporary threats. (Hello, Jotun Grunts!) The way the cube is constructed now, it just seems like you're trying to use the same tricks in each color to win games, and limited doesn't work that way. In order to play limited you need to have strong identities for each color. This gives a deck a sense of constancy, and also when you play an opponent and see a splash of a color, you know what to expect.
Splashability Speaking of splashing colors, I have a real problem with the cards chosen, simply because too many of them are too mana intensive. Double WW and triple RRR. It is very hard to draft this cube, with all the mana hungry cards in it. Some colors suffer for this more than others. The reason I say that is that these cards with the high mana intensity are less important to some colors' strategy than others. Because of the color intensity, you really have to commit to some colors if you're going to play them, and in a pack distribution where there are literally only 6 cards of a color per person, this is hard to do.
Multi Color When you take the splashability factor and add the high number of multi color cards in the cube, I also have a problem trying to draft a usable pile of cards. Not only are the 5 friendly colors represented, but the 5 enemy color combos as well. There is an uneven color distribution, which I don't have a problem with, except that in this case the skew seems to favor the already well represented control aspect of the cube. Multi color is not a bad thing to help shore up weaknesses in individual colors, but with the pack distribution it also assures each pack will have a small slathering of everything and not have any focus on color or archetype. I can see the cube being better with less multi color in it.
Theme Selection When I draft the cards in the cube as it stands now, there is some frustrating lack of themes in colors that would need them. There is no weenie theme in white, red or green. There is little life gain or enchantment/artifact destruction in the cube. And then on the other hand, there are themes that seem over emphasized. There is a strong reanimator theme in white, black and green. White has a very strong protection theme, particularly from red and black. This sort of goes back to the point I made under Redundancy, but it seems like you only focused on themes that interest you, or themes that you feel are good. Unfortunately the checks and balances in the game are such that these sorts of pesky themes come in handy and players want to be able to draft a sideboard that will help them win game two. I can't tell you how frustrating Debtor's Knell is when you no there is no way in your deck to stop it. So some of themes need to relax and others need to be established or brought into focus.
Many Different Players The final general point I want to address is the fact that this cube does not support all the different types of players who enjoy a draft. In particular, I don't feel this cube invites me to play. The decks it supports are not the types I enjoy playing. I like a deck that can lay down a simple threat with some evasion, has a toolbox for potential setbacks and wins with a nice win condition. I like baiting a counterspell out with a cheap creature in order to play my better spell. I like combat and I like combat tricks. I don't like a cube loaded with bloated cards, 10 reset buttons and cheap cheap counterspells. This cube needs to appeal to a wider variety of deck builders.
A Special Message about Counterspells So let me say something about Counterspells. There's nothing wrong with them. But I dislike the over abundance of them in blue. This cube has a wall of Blue control that, coupled with the reset buttons and tempo stoppers (Tangle Wire, ftw!) is annoying to stop. No other color has a mechanical means of getting around this counterspell wall. The usual systemic means of discard, weenie and counter control do not exist in the cube. I'm not saying blue needs to be nerfed, but you'll notice WotC didn't start making cards like Akroma until after it increased the cost of counterspell from 2 to 3+. Having the best cards from the history of the game, means the cube's counter suite is getting around the auto correct. So every player trying to play a 4+ mana card spell, after getting around the format's restrictive mana requirements and multicolor saturation, is just fooling himself, because Counter Spell is the inevitable result. It's an important element of the drama and excitement of the game, but when EVERY spell gets countered you pass the threshold of fun and entire the realm of frustration. The cube will benefit from some spells that can't be countered, Cards with better activated abilities, Split second spells, lower casting cost aggro cards, etc.
I want to like this cube, but my complaints have thus far been construed as whiney. I don't want to waste my breath if your cube philosophy would preclude these changes from being considered. It does seem like the cube is going to change, and maybe it won't be in a direction I like more, but I'm willing to wait and see. I do want to enjoy the cube. (Have you named it yet?)
THe main purpose of a cube is also to play cards "As Written" for more brokeness. I play Chaos orb in my Cube (Errated as destroy target permanent) and also Zodiac Dragon (As written, to force the combo draft)
Cube players shouldn't care of DCI and WotC Cards such are Gifts Given are even unplayable if you consider MtG rules (Can't putt cards from your opponent's deck in your hand if you follow MtG rules) but Cube rules can allow this.
Very true. We play with Booster Tutor and Rare-B-Gone all the time. Who cares if they aren't tournament legal. Booster Tutor is especially fun, you just make another 15 card pile for Booster Tutor, and try your luck. Sometimes you get jank, but sometimes you find that Karmic Guide that can reanimate your Kiki Jiki so you can Hulk Flash your opponent's ass for the win (of course, you still need a sac outlet).
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Check out my pauper cube! and thanks to PurpleD @ [<--- Left Play Design <---] for making this awesome banner!
Lifegain is better than you give it credit for. Loxodon Warhammer, Exalted Angel, Mourning Thrull all do very well due to Lifegain. I'm not advocating fountain of youth, but judicious applications of lifegain critters/spells could be beneficial.
Bio is a very green way to outright win. Reconsider banning it for CC reasons, it's in the mana color. It is a topdeck win in quite a few situations. all you have to do is make sure you have the mana. You say Arcanis is for Johnny, what about Bio?
Popeclone = Pro Bio. Pro LD.
What about Elvish Piper?
(Would you rather have Elvish piper or Gaea's herald? Just curious, because I own neither.)
(Arcanis is for Timmy, and a little for spike as well.)
LD should play an important role and the more I think about it, the more it needs a bit more of a nudge to really take off. A nudge, though, because there's a lot going on in Red and Black, which is where I am going to center the archetype. I know Red/green seems like the initially obvious choice, but black has got a fair amount to contribute to LD including synergy with discard, and a few LD spells of its own.
Loxodon Warhammer is another broken equipment, though not as bad as jitte/sofie/clamp. It's on the list of considered cards, and exalted I just don't own enough of to put one in. It's not like something was excluded because it had lifegain. But unlike Weenie and LD, it's not really a mechanic that needs to be pushed to an archetype. Lifegain is not a Linear mechanic, meaning it's fine to just have one lifegain spell.
I hope playing the cube gets better and becomes more fun. I have a number of criticisms on the current state of the cube and the philosophy behind it.
What can I say? I am trying to listen to your suggestions so I can improve things. But I was really surprised by your and Popeclone's consistent and thoroughly negative reaction.
Redundancy There are too many dup cards in this set. I don't mean multiple discard effects or burn spells, I mean dups. Like Calciderm and Blastoderm, or Resurrection and Zombify. I challenge the notion that these dup cards are good for the cube. With as few slots as the cube already has, it is very important to give each color cards that support its goals. In the example of Calciderm and Blastoderm, Blastoderm fits into a green aggro build that plays Troll Ascetic and Phantom Centaur, whereas White has another in a long line of temporary threats. (Hello, Jotun Grunts!) The way the cube is constructed now, it just seems like you're trying to use the same tricks in each color to win games, and limited doesn't work that way. In order to play limited you need to have strong identities for each color. This gives a deck a sense of constancy, and also when you play an opponent and see a splash of a color, you know what to expect.
So Blastoderm is good because it is similar to and works well with Troll Ascetic and Phantom Centaur.
And Calciderm is bad because it is similar to and works well with Jotun Grunt.
Are you saying that four or five duplicate/timeshifted-esque cards are enough to ruin color identities? Or are you saying white should have no midrange? I really couldn't follow this.
And you mention that a deck needs constancy in limited; how is that not served by redundant cards? Redundant cards = Constancy.
And I think you have enough of an idea of the kinds of cards you can expect when someone drops a swamp or forest. Both calciderm and blastoderm are really powerful and annoying cards to face - they are both worth being in the cube and I see no benefit of exluding one because it is too similar to the other.
And how exactly is white's game plan of temporary threats, powerful mass removal spells, and bomb finishers the wrong approach to the color? You only seem to be able to see what's you don't like, and I think the good stuff going on is being overlooked.
Splashability Speaking of splashing colors, I have a real problem with the cards chosen, simply because too many of them are too mana intensive. Double WW and triple RRR. It is very hard to draft this cube, with all the mana hungry cards in it. Some colors suffer for this more than others. The reason I say that is that these cards with the high mana intensity are less important to some colors' strategy than others. Because of the color intensity, you really have to commit to some colors if you're going to play them, and in a pack distribution where there are literally only 6 cards of a color per person, this is hard to do.
There's always going to be some issue of high specific mana concentration because that's one of the ways Wizards "easily" ramps up the power level on cards. There is likewise a high level of mana-fixers in the cube. And any solutions are always going to leave some tension with sticking to colors: that's simply part of drafting, especially with powerful cards.
But I have heard your legitimate concern here and steps will be taken to assuage these concerns. Cards like Mistral Charger are high on the list of possible includes and other cards are going to have to be more carefully examined for specific mana requirements. It's never going to be the only reason for a card, but it is now a more important factor to be considered.
Furthermore, in addition to the mana in artifacts and lands, green will be getting more attention as the hub for a multicolored deck. This metagame adaptation of green's role will allow it to serve another purpose and open up a new archetype for green: the 5-color hub.
Multi Color When you take the splashability factor and add the high number of multi color cards in the cube, I also have a problem trying to draft a usable pile of cards. Not only are the 5 friendly colors represented, but the 5 enemy color combos as well. There is an uneven color distribution, which I don't have a problem with, except that in this case the skew seems to favor the already well represented control aspect of the cube. Multi color is not a bad thing to help shore up weaknesses in individual colors, but with the pack distribution it also assures each pack will have a small slathering of everything and not have any focus on color or archetype. I can see the cube being better with less multi color in it.
More than half the gold is creatures, and overall this cube has a higher creature percentage than most cubes. It also has a high/average percentage of artifact/enchantment hate while we're on it. I did my research, and I made sure to include more of the things you like: creatures and disenchant effects. Still you are unsatisfied.
Furthermore, the packs I have produced, aside from the higher OAL presence, look the most like real packs of any shuffling method I've seen for a cube. Still you are unsatisfied.
I think color/archetype focus in normal packs comes from there being standout cards of those colors. And in these packs, every card stands out, meaning that no cards stand out. Besides, the more you make the packs randomized to have large pockets of say, 5 white cards, the more likely you are to face a pack with nothing in it for you from the get go. I've never had a problem drafting two colors with a splash of a third in the cube. And it's not like you can't build a deck if you only have 20 total on-color cards between your two main colors. Every card is good enough to include.
(Final note here would be that like specific mana gets another look as a criterion for inclusion, so inversely will hybrid mana get a small bump of being more favored for being more splashable.)
Theme Selection When I draft the cards in the cube as it stands now, there is some frustrating lack of themes in colors that would need them. There is no weenie theme in white, red or green. There is little life gain or enchantment/artifact destruction in the cube. And then on the other hand, there are themes that seem over emphasized. There is a strong reanimator theme in white, black and green. White has a very strong protection theme, particularly from red and black. This sort of goes back to the point I made under Redundancy, but it seems like you only focused on themes that interest you, or themes that you feel are good. Unfortunately the checks and balances in the game are such that these sorts of pesky themes come in handy and players want to be able to draft a sideboard that will help them win game two. I can't tell you how frustrating Debtor's Knell is when you no there is no way in your deck to stop it. So some of themes need to relax and others need to be established or brought into focus.
Weenies (Four or less CCC)
White weenies: 13 out of 21 creatures (62%)
Red weenies: 9 out of 18 creatures (50%)
Green Weenies: 17 out of 23 creatures (74%)
The protection theme isn't there in any deliberate fashion: as I noted above to Popeclone, I only "push" themes if they are linear mechanics and protection isn't. Protection is included as an averter to removal, which is typically red or black.
Life gain isn't needed in the way that other artcheypes can be argued for. Furthermore, lifegain cards are largely crap, cutting the pool of great lifegain cards to a minimum.
Artifact/Enchantment Hate (Bounce and Counter noted also as 'solutions' to artifacts and enchantments.)
White: 4
Blue: 0 (2 bounce / 9 counter)
Black: 0
Red : 5
Green: 2
Gold: 5 (2 bounce / 4 counter)
Artifact: 2
Land: 0
Total: 18 (4 bounce / 13 counter)
More disenchant effects than counterspells? Hm...
Many Different Players The final general point I want to address is the fact that this cube does not support all the different types of players who enjoy a draft. In particular, I don't feel this cube invites me to play. The decks it supports are not the types I enjoy playing. I like a deck that can lay down a simple threat with some evasion, has a toolbox for potential setbacks and wins with a nice win condition. I like baiting a counterspell out with a cheap creature in order to play my better spell. I like combat and I like combat tricks. I don't like a cube loaded with bloated cards, 10 reset buttons and cheap cheap counterspells. This cube needs to appeal to a wider variety of deck builders.
I plan on trying to lower the overall cost a little bit, but because powerful cards tend to be expensive, and because draft favors a more normalized bellcurve in costs, there will still be expensive cards, quite a few.
I did put in a lot of things to appeal to you and you complained about them. I expected you to be excited about the larger creatures and big effects. Quite the opposite. I thought the Johnny in you would like the reanimator graveyard theme as a combo-like mechanic that still works well in incomplete parts. Quite the opposite. I added a lot of disenchant effects, way more than the average cube. There weren't enough.
I made sure there were enough reset buttons and removal to balance the huge awesome game-swinging threats. Then I supplemented the fatties with their own answer to the removal: reanimator. Did this balance please you? No, of course not. The whole system was broken.
There's not enough red weenies. Not enough red beef. I don't understand white, green and red because I'm blinded by my myopia. I made sure to put in a lot of green and white weenies only to find out there weren't any at all in the cube. Colors are too consistent but they lack consistency.
A Special Message about Counterspells So let me say something about Counterspells. There's nothing wrong with them. But I dislike the over abundance of them in blue. This cube has a wall of Blue control that, coupled with the reset buttons and tempo stoppers (Tangle Wire, ftw!) is annoying to stop. No other color has a mechanical means of getting around this counterspell wall. The usual systemic means of discard, weenie and counter control do not exist in the cube. I'm not saying blue needs to be nerfed, but you'll notice WotC didn't start making cards like Akroma until after it increased the cost of counterspell from 2 to 3+. Having the best cards from the history of the game, means the cube's counter suite is getting around the auto correct. So every player trying to play a 4+ mana card spell, after getting around the format's restrictive mana requirements and multicolor saturation, is just fooling himself, because Counter Spell is the inevitable result. It's an important element of the drama and excitement of the game, but when EVERY spell gets countered you pass the threshold of fun and entire the realm of frustration. The cube will benefit from some spells that can't be countered, Cards with better activated abilities, Split second spells, lower casting cost aggro cards, etc.
Solutions
1) Draft blue.
2) Some steps should be taken to give some answers to the counterspell mechanic, which I agree is demonstrably and game-winningly powerful. This means split second goes up in value, the overall cost goes down a bit. Blue hosers mean a little more. (Red elemental Blast, Eyes of the Wisent)
3) #2 can only take us so far; see #1.
There hasn't been a game where every card was countered, not even close. There have been games where every spell played had to ask if it was going to resolve, and that's what happens at the highest levels of play when your opponent has islands untapped. Don't mistake representing a counterspell with having one.
But none of this is to deny that counterspells are powerful, probably the most powerful mechanic in the cube, let alone Magic at large. Control is the most powerful archetype and blue is the most powerful color: are you really surprised that the best Magic cards would lead to this result? And are you going to keep insisting that this is my fault when the slightly lowered costs don't fix the problem? I recognize that blue is, at the moment, the top dog that you either play or beat, but even with some new tech, blue, counters, and generally speaking, control is probably going to remain at or near the top.
I want to like this cube, but my complaints have thus far been construed as whiney. I don't want to waste my breath if your cube philosophy would preclude these changes from being considered. It does seem like the cube is going to change, and maybe it won't be in a direction I like more, but I'm willing to wait and see. I do want to enjoy the cube. (Have you named it yet?)
It is kind of dissapointing to realise how unfavorably the whole thing has been received. And the intention of stating a philosophy for the cube was to help to guide discussion whereas it has been interpreted as doing the opposite. I want to make the cube composed of the most poweful cards and most powerful archetypes. It needs polish and some of the colors and mechanics do need balance (but the only way they can move is up - nothing gets weakened) but it would be nice if the criticism were tempered, at least some of the time. You're breath isn't wasted. But it doesn't help to make me feel like all my effort on the cube is wasted, either.
In summation,
1) other colors and mechanics can be raised to blue/counter's level, but blue/counter won't be lowered in power.
2) I don't see any issue with redundant cards and I think it's the wierdest place to take a stand.
3) mechanics aren't going to be introduced just for the sake of variety. Lifegain belongs if it wins games. Toolboxes belong if the tools are up to snuff.
4) changes are happening but they are far from drastic. They will be based around various ways to lower costs and specific mana subtly and reflect blue's top dog status.
5) cut me some ****ing slack.
Very true. We play with Booster Tutor and Rare-B-Gone all the time. Who cares if they aren't tournament legal. Booster Tutor is especially fun, you just make another 15 card pile for Booster Tutor, and try your luck. Sometimes you get jank, but sometimes you find that Karmic Guide that can reanimate your Kiki Jiki so you can Hulk Flash your opponent's ass for the win (of course, you still need a sac outlet).
Booster Tutor is really too inconsistent; I think it's getting the choice of four to six playable cards in a pack, which isn't very powerful for a tutor. I did consider it, though, as the idea is cool. And Rare-b-gone was too much of a pain because of all of the pre-colored expansion symbols. For similar reasons I didn't include frazzled editor. I was looking at the two Akromas I own and wondering which I would include (for aesthetic reasons) when it occured to me that one of them had four lines of text and the other had three. I didn't want to face this question for every card in the cube with errata or mutiple printings, so I just booted the editor.
But I think any un-card should be included as long as you're willing to handle the issues it raises ruleswise.
What started as a minor update for a few obvious cards turned into a major overhaul. Briefly speaking, these changes reflect the desire to lower costs, make specific mana less of an issue, introduce a major morph theme, further push certain archetypes like weenie and LD, and Green Hub. Each color has some replacements (not always related cards) and three new cards added(marked with "+"), bringing the total number of cards in the cube up to 289 from 265. (38/WUBG 33/OAL).
Helldozer - not on its own merits as much as a way to shore up R/ LD Army Ants - to add to the LD theme. Also a very good way to win early. Sakura-Tribe Elder - to replace tornado elemental. Cheaper and mana-fixing. Krosan Grip One of the best disenchant effects. Selesnya Guildmage - a good weenie, much like all of the guildmages. Momentary blink - versatile, count 187 effects. (28, very lenient) Giant Solifuge is the perfect replacement for shivan wurm
I really like the changes you made, in particular the addition of Morph as a theme. It satisfies my desire to have some less expensive creature I can plop down in a pinch. Plus, it helps reduce the color intensity of the Cube. Where's Exalted Angel?!?
The archetypes seem to be well thought out.
U/x Control is my least favorite theme, and I see you've added both Mana Leak AND Isocron Scepter to the Cube, so this theme will now be extra annoying.
W/B Reanimator is an interesting idea, and helps me accept both Zombify and Resurrection Co-existing. This theme is also supported well by Eternal Dragon, Noble Templar and Twisted Abomination. It does however show how inappropriate Samurai of the Pale Curtain is, since it nerfs your graveyard as well.
B/R Sucide Control is already great by virtue of the color combo, but all the LD will really push it over the top. Control gets a lot of love from this Cube.
I don't know if I see the W/G theme. What's the idea behind W/G in this Cube? The other archetypes are a lot more apparent. Like, what cards go in it?
5-Color Hub is an interesting idea and I bet it plays really well against the other archetypes.
It's less about one individual cards, though a first pick killer equipment, bomb white creature (Yosie, Adarkar) or super efficient green card (Ascetic, Baloth) would put me in G/ aggro. There are so many cards to make this deck it's overwhelming. It's one archetype I wouldn't fear not being supported. It's not like you need counterspells or LD, or reanimator targets. You just need to curve out with creatures, and that's a lot easier to draft just given the overwhelming number of creatures in green and white.
Point about SotPC noted.
Exalted is in a deck right now and I'm contemplating buying another. But they are not cheap.
Discussion
Update #1
Update #2
Update #3
Update #4
Update #5
Update #6
WWWWWWWWWW White Cards (38) WWWWWWWWWW
Creatures (23)
Adarkar Valkyrie
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Aven Riftwatcher
Blade of the Sixth Pride
Calciderm
Celestial Crusader
Devout Witness
Eternal Dragon
Icatian Javelineer
Karmic Guide
Mistral Charger
Mother of Runes
Mystic Crusader
Noble Templar
Savannah Lions
Serra Avenger
Silver Knight
Soltari Champion
Soltari Crusader
Soltari Priest
Squall Drifter
Whipcorder
Yosei, the Morning Star
Spells (15)
Armageddon
Balance
Breath of Life
Condemn
Decree of Justice
Disenchant
Faith's Fetters
Oblivion Ring
Pacifism
Parallax Wave
Rout
Story Circle
Tariff
Temporal Isolation
Wrath of God
Creatures (18)
Chromeshell Crab
Clone
Cloud of Faeries
Draining Whelk
Fathom Seer
Jushi Apprentice
Keiga the Tide Star
Maelstrom Djinn
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Man-o'-war
Ninja of Deep Hours
Quicksilver Dragon
Rainbow Efreet
Riptide Survivor
Spiketail Hatchling
Venser, Shaper Savant
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Willbender
Spells (20)
Ancestral Vision
Brainstorm
Bribery
Capsize
Control Magic
Counterspell
Deep Analysis
Dismal Failure
Dismiss
Exclude
Fact or Fiction
Force of Will
Frantic Search
Gifts Ungiven
Gush
Hinder
Impulse
Mana Leak
Psionic Blast
Remand
Creatures (20)
Bane of the Living
Braids, Cabal Minion
Dark Confidant
Doomed Necromancer
Faceless Butcher
Fallen Askari
Hypnotic Specter
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Magus of the Abyss
Mesmeric Fiend
Mindslicer
Mirri the Cursed
Nekrataal
Nezumi Graverobber
Nezumi Shortfang
Ravenous Rats
Silent Specter
Stinkweek Imp
Twisted Abomination
Spells (18)
Animate Dead
Beacon of Unrest
Befoul
Chainer's Edict
Dark Ritual
Death Denied
Demonic Tutor
Enslave
Hymn to Tourach
Mind Twist
Pestilence
Phyrexian Arena
Rend Flesh
Sinkhole
Slaughter Pact
Sudden Death
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Zombify
Creatures (18)
Bloodrock Cyclops
Flametongue Kavu
Fortune Thief
Furnace Whelp
Gathan Raiders
Hearth Kami
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Kird Ape
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Magus of the Scroll
Pain Kami
Rorix Bladewing
Ryusei, the Falling Star
Seige-Gang Commander
Suq'ata Lancer
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
Viashino Heretic
Spells (20)
Beacon of Destruction
Blast from the Past
Char
Disintegrate
Earthquake
Fireball
Firebolt
Grab the Reins
Incinerate
Jokulhaups
Lightning Bolt
Pillage
Pyroblast
Pyroclasm
Pyrohemia
Red Elemental Blast
Rift Bolt
Stone Rain
Sudden Shock
Wheel of Fortune
Creatures (27)
Albino Troll
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Blastoderm
Birds of Paradise
Carnassid
Eternal Witness
Gemhide Sliver
Gigapede
Glissa Sunseeker
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hystrodon
Joiner Adept
Junge Lion
Mire Boa
Nantuko Vigilante
Ohran Viper
Phantom Centaur
Quagnoth
Ravenous Baloth
River Boa
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Scryb Ranger
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Troll Ascetic
Wild Dogs
Wild Mongrel
Yavimaya Elder
Spells (11)
Call of the Herd
Creeping Mold
Harmonize
Harrow
Hurricane
Ice Storm
Krosan Grip
Kodama's Reach
Plow Under
Rancor
Regrowth
Azorius Guildmage
Minister of Impediments
Dimir Guildmage
Psychatog
Recoil
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Undermine
Army Ants
Terminate
Wrecking Ball
Giant Solifuge
Gruul Guildmage
Savage Twister
Wreak Havok
Glare of Subdual
Loxodon Hierarch
Mirari's Wake
Phantom Nishoba
Selesnya Guildmage
Angel of Despair
Debtor's Knell
Mortify
Gelectrode
Prophetic Bolt
Suffocating Blast
Pernicious Deed
Putrefy
Spiritmonger
Brion Stoutarm
Lightning Helix
Mystic Snake
Trygon Predator
Other
Crime/Punisment
There are a few artifact creatures that many colors want, but the main purpose of artifacts is the mana-fixing and some savage control cards. Not to mention a few game-winning equipment as well.
Creatures (5)
Juggernaut
Razormane Masticore
Solemn Simulacrum
Triskelavus
Triskelion
Mana (9)
Chromatic Star
Coldsteel Heart
Darksteel Ingot
Lotus Bloom
Mana Vault
Mind Stone
Sol Ring
Spectral Searchlight
Wayfarer's Bauble
Lockdown (11)
Aeolipile
Crystal Shard
Culling Scales
Cursed Scroll
Defense Grid
Icy Manipulator
Jester's Cap
Meekstone
Nevinyrral's Disk
Smokestack
Tangle Wire
Creature Aid (8)
Æther Vial
Bonesplitter
Grafted Wargear
Loxodon Warhammer
Manriki-Gusari
Skullclamp
Sword of Fire and Ice
Umezawa's Jitte
Azorius Chancery
Calciform Pools
Underground River
Watery Grave
Badlands
Graven Cairns
Karplusan Forest
Wooded Foothills
Horizon Canopy
Temple Garden
Godless Shrine
Orzhov Basilica
Steam Vents
Volcanic Island
Bayou
Overgrown Tomb
Boros Garrison
Sacred Foundry
Tropical Island
Yawimaya Coast
FiveColor
City of Brass
Gemstone Mine
Tendo Ice Bridge
Terramorphic Expanse
Vesuva
Manland/Utility
Blinkmoth Nexus
Maze of Ith
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Mishra's Factory
Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Zoetic Cavern
..........Criteria for Cards: The idea is to make a limited format with the most powerful cards, so power is pretty important. However, things like mana-fixing, mana curves, utility, creature balance, and archetype support are important elements of winning that can sometimes mean the better card is one that is less overtly powerful. I chose cards without worrying about color balance. This means some color could be more powerful or weaker, but so far the only standout has been blue. Who saw that coming? I didn't go out of my way to include mechanics if they didn't have any powerful cards representing them, and I didn't bother about the color pie (if green was better than red at killing artifacts, for example.) But I did try to play to each color's strengths. The cube is limited by my card collection, but I'm willing to spend to expand and update the cube. (But not as much as for power.) The list for the Wizards '07 Invitational Cube was a helpful guide as well as Evan Irwin's Cube. But those sources were only guides and I did not copy anything or start with a pre-made list.
..........The numbers: I have a cube of 289 cards. That breaks down into 38 cards of each color, with 33 gold, 33 artifacts, and 33 lands. My cube is smaller than most, which aim for 8-person (about 400 cards). I don't have my eye on making the cube any bigger right now for two reasons. First, the tighter the size, the more concentrated the power level is. Secondly, I don't want to have to make the epic search for the exact same kind of sleeves. The colors are about half creatures and overall it is probably about 40-45% creatures.
..........How to make packs: Making packs is easy for me because the eight categories of cards I have are all roughly equal. I shuffle each of the eight piles seperately (W,U,B,R,G,O,A,L.) Then I take two cards from each pile and make a seperate pile. That's 16 cards, which I shuffle, and then take one card out without looking at it. Usually I make the cards three or five at a time (draft or sealed), which makes for packs that look more random and interesting. For three, take six cards of each pile, shuffle them all together (48 cards) and remove three cards face down (45 cards), then divide into three piles of 15. For sealed (five packs), take ten cards of each color and shuffle together (80 cards), then remove five cards (75 cards) face down, which you then divide into five piles of 15.
..........Cube Archetypes:
U/x Control: Counterspells backed up with a threat in the off color or a way to protect a finisher creature. This also can play out as a faster U/x tempo deck where the blue control elements focus on the later game and allow the early beaters to continue to swing.
W/ Aggro Control: (Reanimator) Powerful selection of agressive and defensive cards in these two colors with a strong backup plan of reanimation. Splashes green well as a mana fixer and as reanimation supplement.
R/ Suicide Control: Burn and Land Destruction. Could run sputteringly in some games, flat out wins in others. Hard to splash because you need a strong commitment to early game cards like discard and land destruction, so stay in these two colors exclusively. With many of the cards focused on working in early game, the finishers have to be carefully selected to remain relevant if the game plan fails while still working with the discard/LD themes.
G/ Horde: Agressive cheap creatures backed up with broken equipement, reset buttons, stellar midrange and huge finishers. Splash red for reach, blue for late game counterspells. The key is to curve out and then control with a splash color or simply apply more pressure than your opponent can handle, like with equipment. You must start attacking for two as soon as you possibly can.
5-Color Hub (G): Spend pack 1 favoring green's mana-fixers and accelerators, talismans and lands much higher than normal. Then cherry pick as you please from the best cards in every color for the rest of the draft. Morph and splashable bombs help here, but don't forget to cement your place in green (at least till pack 2 winds down) so you don't get drafted out of it in later picks.
Annul - yes, blue spells are a very tight list, but a cheap answer to broken artifacts has to be considered
Skeletal Scrying - Seems like this might be easier to cast than one might think.
Shattering Spree - good artifact hate in red -who knew?
Stonewood Invocation - a good giant growth, but pretty expensive.
Sprout Swarm - however, the signs are favorable that the token token generator will be the guildmage.
enlightened tutor gamewinning equipment, plz. kthx
mystical tutor I can has a counterspell?
Creeping Mold Not sexy, but a not often a dead draw (unlike Naturalize).
Crime / Punishment
Ambassador Laquatus has been suggested as a blue finisher.
Browbeat is potent red draw.
Overrule is a playable replacement for Absorb should the (U/W) cards be too lacking.
Avalanche Riders as an LD mainstay.
Tolarian Academy because... i dunno, dead catgirls?
Honden of Seeing Winds: as a slow-burn control deck fuel
Honden of Night's Reach: as a way to shut down slower decks.
Deadwood Treefolk as recursion and a nice fetch target for combo.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker -Yes, I know this card was recently taken out. Wrongly, I think. It's an important card that serves multiple finite and infinite combos.
Protean Hulk: gret combo card that has potency on its lonesome as well.
Flash is expensive :mad:>.>:argh:
Reveillark Also not a cheap card.... but serves combo well.
Body Double: serves combo and reanimator. Nice.
Academy Rector - I'm not even going to look up the price on this one.
False Prophet another leaves play effect for kiki and flash.
Nantuko Husk as a sac outlet.
Buried Alive ennables a lot of combos, but isn't great outside of combo or reanimator... or threshold.
Sky Hussar and kiki is game. Is there any other interaction I'm missing?
These cards have not been living up to the standards of the Cube. It might be a mismatch of synergy or archetype or simply a power problem.
Dismantling Blow there's probably a better disenchant variant
Grim Harvest -a lot of potential but no one has used it.
Undead Gladiator Just overcosted. Looks like an ideal spikish creature/card engine, but isn't.
Ith, High Arcanist Then again, I'd have to order an absorb to replace this.
Angel of Despair Good in a keiga sort of way and better if I can get in momEntaRyBlink, but pretty costly. (WWBB)
Lightning Angel specific mana anyone?
Shivan Wurm has gating. I feel like there are better answers.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse a little meh. Is there nothing else I long for? It is very easy to put in decks, though....
Samurai of the Pale Curtain - could be 1W 2/x instead, to work better with reanimator.
Although they aren't as influential as they are in other drafts, some cards are still a head and shoulder above the others in terms of power. These cards do not get passed because they are always worth splashing color or archetype or at minimum hatedrafting.
1-Smokestack
2-Tangle Wire
3-Sol Ring
4-Solemn Simulacrum
5-Balance
6-Debtor's Knell
7-Umezawa's Jitte
8-Sword of Fire and Ice
9-
0-
For one reason or another, these cards just didn't cut it. A moment of blindness or a too-kind appraisal allowed this card to slip in. Or perhaps it just doesn't fit in the Cube (like Cranial Extraction.) The biggest reasons to remove cards, though, is to fit mana curves and archetypes.
Waylay is not an eot Ball Lightning.
Jotun Grunt belongs in a cube that gets threshold on turn 2.
Oblation was interesting but lacked raw power.
**U
waterfront bouncer does what? bounce reanimator targets? Why not Repulse?
Arcanis the omnipotent was cut for costs. Still an excellent draw spell, if slow.
Court Hussar belongs in constructed where it is more than a three-mana Brainstorm.
**B
Ichorid belongs in a constructed deck that loads the yard with 37 cards on turn 2.
Buried Alive was too deep in the reanimator theme to actually be relevant.
Cabal Patriarch was expensive.
Undead Gladiator is not a spikish draw engine. It merely gives your cards cycling2:symb::symb:.
Reckless Spite is only good in the window after your opponent has two creatures and before you can't afford the five life.
**R
Icefall will not ever get recovered.
Viashino Heretic was supposed to do what? Wait around for artifacts and do nothing else?
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker may return if his combo card comes up. Too expensive ATM.
Skarrgan Firebird too expensive in the most bloated color.
**G
Tornado Elemental makes me think green was the most bloated color.
Beacon of Creation wants 15 forests. Limited cannot satisfy it.
Greater Good is only great with bomb creatures. May return one day, though.
**:symur:
Kaervek the Merciless expensive. Nuff Said.
Blizzard Specter was simply the weakest link in an overloaded color combo.
**1
Scrabbling Claws If you thought reanimation ennabling was degenerate...
Su-Chi is awesome for getting manaburn.
**LAND
Current Issues:
Pyroblast vs. Magma Jet
Which red X spells?
Looking for favoring hybrid more in place of bad/wierd gold cards
Looking to lower the curve: especially including one drops with two power.
Building a core of Approximately 15 combo cards that work well together
More Morph creatures for the next big update!
Which card to replace Shivan Wurm?
Which Disenchant effect? (Dismantling Blow, Seal of Cleansing, Aura of Silence?Surprisingly, Oblivion RingDarksteel Ingot or Scuttlemutt or Spectral Searchlight?Searchlight.Suq'ata Lancer vs. Ronin HoundmasterLancer.Krosan Grip vs Creeping MoldGrip.Tendo Ice Bridge vs. Mirrodin's CoreTendo.Comments?
Questions?
Anybody?
Thanks for the comments!
I would replace su-chi with masticore if I owned one, but I think it has some potential. I'd like to see it get played a few times because that's the best way to test a wierdish ability. Part of it being in the cube is that there really aren't that many great artifact creatures.... At least, the ratio is a lot lower than for any of the colors.
Beacon of creation has gotten the "doubt mark twice now." Maybe it should get replaced, but then again, it is an excellent topdeck, and it's not too bad on turn 4 or five either. It's under suspicion, though, I agree.
Undead Gladiator, and also Ichorid, don't seem to be living up to the hype. Again, having these cards see play, and more than a few times would be the best way to test them, but after a while, some cards are just going to get cut becuase they aren't attractive enought to get played. These two cards play into a very serious concern I have about the graveyard theme in the cube. There are a lot of cards themed around the graveyard and I'm starting to doubt if that design element was included in error. Is Jotun Grunt Good enough? What about buried alive, which is a second level card that depends on other graveyard cards to work at all? I know some cards like golgari-grave troll are worth it, and the other reanimator cards like debtor's knell, animate dead, zombify, and resurrection. But where to draw the line is tough because I think I misguaged the power level of the graveyard theme for some cards.
And while I haven't seen rainbow efreet in action yet, I think that's only an accident (have only drafted twice). On paper the efreet looks like the perfect control finisher. It's an evasive creature with an unbelievably good protection scheme. (Nothing kills a phased out creature, so just hold UU - it's better than untargetabilty since it overcomes wrath and sac effects.) It's like anurid brushopper with no discard cost. I expect good things from rainbow efreet. And oblivion ring is just an oversight that I need to pick up the next time I buy cards. I think mulldrifter goes in, too; I just don't know what it replaces. It's cheap and really good.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
I do own one, three actually. I just have them in a deck. I love the cube and exalted certainly deserves to go in it, but I also want to be able to keep playing constructed, too. And they are kind of expensive. I guess I'd put it on my buy list if white were somehow lacking in awesome flying beaters. Still, it should be in, agreed.
I really don't get Biorhythm. It's eight mana, which means I expect a whole lot from it. But you really have to sieze the moment with this card because cast at the wrong time it loses for you. You still have to have another threat to back up an eight mana spell.
I was thinking about running the split second giant growth, that costs 3G and gives +5/+5 (and untargetability i think). Wurmcalling is also pretty expensive, although it is a great lategame topdeck. But I'm trying to get the cube to be less of a longgame fattie type meta and a little more tempo-curve oriented. I don't have any tooth and nail, though that is an expensive card totally worth it.
I really wanted to put in temple of the false god but didn't. I'm kind of glad because running a two color deck is pretty tough, especially given the amount of cards that can tempt you into a third color. And you can't afford colorless mana in a three color deck. Besides, the late game X-spells don't seem to be doing the winning like you might epxect. It's so much more about an aggro fattie army or a controlled board with a single solid creature.
White
First Impression: A solid color. I drafted this color the first time around. (1st pick Akroma, second pick Decree of Dustice.)
Observations: Shadow creatures with pro red own. White spells change the game.
Critique: Need a weenie or two to better represent the color. White Knight, Soul Warden, Golden Pudding or Isamaru, Hound of Konda are a few suggestions. I might also remove the following cards... Waylay, Sunscape Battlemage (I know it's part of a cycle, but it's a poor performer) and Guardian of the Guildpact.
Blue
First Impression: This color does what it is supposed to do. It draws, it bounces and it counters. In short, it is annoying... as blue should be.
Observations: The player who drafts blue with a splash of another color will win. Since blue is the only color that does what it's designed to do, it will win. The other colors have no answer to counters.
Critique: Arcanis may cost too much, perhaps exchange him for Ambassador Laquatus.
Black
First Impression: 85% awesome. Cabal Patriarch stinks up the place.
Observations: A lot of black splashing going on. A lot of classic black. The newer black spells selected seemed to be for flavor not impact.
Critique: Take out... Cabal Patriarch, Skeletal Vampire, Reckless Spite, Sinkhole and Slaughter Pact. These cards live up to the themes but not for the best in black. (Sinkhole no good because of the 2 land killing lands you have. LD should be in red.) Faceless Butcher, Withered Wretch, Drain Life, Living Death should find their way in. What kept Nightscape Battlemage out of black?
Red
First Impression: Where's the beef?
Observations: Lotta red splashing, lotta sub-par critters.
Critique: There are too many legends in red to make Kiki-Jiki worthy to be in the cube. Damage is nice, LD is better and no color does that better than red. If blue gets counter spell, red should have LD. Pyrohemia is redundant and should be a stone rain. Icefall and Aftershock should be taken out for more efficient spells or creatures.Tangarth has yet to prove himself. I would rather he was a Subterranean Spirit or a Bogardan Firefiend. Mogg Fanatic, Desolation Giant, Volcanic Dragon, Avalanche Riders or Wake of Destruction.
Red needs help.
Green
First Impression: Something smells fishy, there are no elves... is this really green?
Observations: Jack of all trades master of none. There are very few first drafts in this color (compared to others.)
Critique: Tornado Elemental and Arashi are too similar and too boring. They sit high on the curve and are poor performers. Sakura Tribe Elder is already in, I know that. Virulent Sliver maybe? Take out Harrow and the Beacon. Replace them with Biorhythm, Tooth and Nail or Trophy Hunter. I think fog is better than constant mists in this format, but I would include neither.
Multi Color
No issues. Always something useful.
Artifact
Juggernaut and Su-Chi could be Ensnaring Bridge and Mox Diamond.
Land
One to many land killers. Get rid of Wasteland. Replace it with Desert, Quicksand or Thawing Glaciers.
That's all. I don't have an issue with the duplicates (except pyrohemia/pestilence). I do feel that your Spikey-ness prevents you from seeing the true focus of white, green and red. But time will tell.
You wouldn't. It's got too many things "wrong" with it. That's why it's so green. It also wins games.
I agree that waylay is under question. It's decent, but it really needs one or two more crusade effects to take off. On paper it's a white ball lightning with only one specific mana. It's actually a really strong weenie card, even if all of the attack power is concentrated in one turn. It's splashable and it's exactly what aggro is asking for. The only reason I would take it out is because I was afraid your opponent would have more than one blocker to make them irrelevant. This isn't an issue except in lategame. I think a splashable ball lightning is up to the cube's standards; the only issue is that waylay is a crappy topdeck and ball lightning is a great one.
I think I'd include auriok champion before soul warden, but neither really excites me. Lifegain isn't all that great, and there is only one opponent unlike multiplayer, the best home of those cards. Isamaru's a good suggestion (if I had one), and I might add my single copy of savannah lions if I take it out of the deck it's currently in (which is somewhat likely.) Attacking for two is what you really want from the weenie strategy, not so much life gain. Weenie is already tough to pull off in limited because limited favors a much more belllike curve, so it's best to make the weenies as savage as possible.
Sunscape Battlemage isn't in because it's part of a cycle - it's there on its own merits. No cards were included because of cycles. The ability to kill a game-winning flier or to mulldrifter is a pretty big deal. Plus the card has to option to be very modular, which is a major plus to making this card relevant nomatter when it is drawn. Guardian of the Guildpact isn't very shiny, I agree. But it is one of the best protection creatures. perhaps mistral charger would be good in its place.
Laquatus really shins in late game where you have the excess mana to use his ability while retaining control of the game with counterspells. I don't think arcanis is ready for the chopping block just because even though he's really timmy-sized, he's a timmy-sized ancestral recall on a stick. How many times do you need to activate him to win? Once or twice, I think. Respectable body, too, not to mention that he's got a protection ability. Still, laquatus deseves a second look. I do think it would be best to be kind of modular about the milling, or at least to consider it that way. Perhaps laquatus is good enough on his own, but I would be more sold if there were other milling cards up to snuff. At the moment I'm not quite feeling glimpse the unthinkable. Maybe in place of waterfront bouncer.... I really need to make a serious appraisal of the mana curve again. I did it once before for each color and card type, but another is in order.
I guess I'm fairly at odds about this whole issue and it warrants further reflection.
I disagree that LD should be in red. It can be there when red ponies up a two mana LD spell. I do plan on adding army ants and lowering the cost of icefall to pillage, so that should jumpstart the LD theme. Speaking to stone rain, as I'm sure you will mention it when we get to the red, that card goes in a larger cube, just not a base 35 cube, maybe after molten rain goes in.
Cabal Patriarch - I don't see what's not to like. But when it comes to skeletal vampire, I'm trusting reports that the card really works. It is six for five in the sky, and has the hallmark evasion and protection abilities of a good finisher. But I agree that Faceless butcher is probably better than either of these two cards.
Still, reckless spite is, more often than not, a plague wind. And slaughter pact is really worth it. Sadly I don't own a living death, as that card would shore up the reanimator theme nicely.
And nightscape battlemage just doesn't cut it - 6 for LD is no good, and 6 for double bounce? I'm not drooling for the vanilla 2/2 either. The bounce ability is worth it, I suppose, but I think it takes two good abilities to justify a battlemage. Like Ana battlemage; I'd run that if I owned one.
"Where's the beef?" 9 of the 18 creatures represent more than four power's worth of damage, so I don't see your point.
Pyrohemia/pestilence isn't any more redundant than wrath/damnation, naturalize/disenchant, or savannah lions/jackal pup would be. If it matters at all, redundancy of good cards is a good thing, not a bad thing. And just like cycles, each "redundant" card was put in the cube on its own merits.
Kiki Jiki has pretty much shown himself to be far too out of place. Too much legendariness in red, too much red in his cost. He won't be missed and is a welcome open slot to replace.
Tahngarth is a sloppy mess in your eyes: I get that. But giving him -1/-1, losing vigalance and his arena ability, and getting tremor on a stick does not make him better. Hm.. I don't know how, but I don't own any avalanche riders (but they are pretty decent), desolation giant is a huge mess of needing specific mana, wake of destruction is only going to shut down 50% of your opponent's deck for 3RRR (and I don't have one).
Again, blue didn't get counterspells because blue is awesome and "should" be powerful. That was not my approach. Blue is the most powerful because it has the most powerful cards, and the same goes for each color. I did not attempt to make any color more powerful and spent a lot of time and thinking trying to make each color as powerful as possible, including green. There are weaker colors because of Wizards and perhaps because of what I do and don't own. The colors are decently balanced but in the most powerful formats, some colors and mechanics rise to the top and others just can't cut it.
Blue got counterspells because counterspells are savage and win games more often than the other blue cards in question. It's not my concern to preserve every mechanic and make the game have all its parts. The cube only gets something if it's powerful, or the card is needed to balance something. LD is powerful, but it relies heavily on constructedness to get that power. You need 8-16 LD cards and 4-6 turn one accelerators to lock out the win. It suffers from the translation to limited.
Fog is not better than constant mists. Essentially free Buyback for 1 is tech. This card has precendent in cubes and I'm really surprised you would doubt it. The reason this card is good is that it buys you many, many turns of one-sided combat, which wins. In the same way, I know you like slivers, but a one-of poisonous creature on one of the least-impressive bodies ever (1 for a 1/1 is the worst body in limited - 2 for a 2/x is soo much better.)? How exactly do you ever connect with that guy ten times? And if you connect fewer than ten times, how is this guy not eager cadet?
I can understand some doubt about Tornado elemental, but arashi is powerfully sized with a great flying killer ability that's essentially free gravy. They are not in the same boat - 5 is the top of a good mana curve and 7 is way over it.
Beacon has a one-way ticket for a constructed place where you can run 20 forests in a deck, and I may even splurge and buy a tooth and nail, as that card defines "expensive but worth it."
And you lament the elves' absence and then don't reccomend any! Seriously, what elf is even worth it? I guess that Joiner adept, caller of the claw, thornscape battlemage, and Glissa, Sunseeker are pretty good. Maybe I'll put them in.
Which is funny because I think there's a lot of editing to be done here. Maybe that's because of the system of open slots for the last ten once each color combo gets two cards...
Ensnaring Bridge is good in very specific odd decks: weenie decks that run outt of steam and have some backup plan, and control decks that don't have cards in hand. I guess it would be a good compliment to blue weenie that wants to win with one and two power creatures. It's worth considering.
If only I had a thawing glaciers. But although that would give me pause, I think wasteland would be better of being some other card besides the nearly obsolete desert. Well, I suppose desert lets you trade up, but blocking means you're losing. Besides, don't you want an LD theme? Most non-basics are the best targets anyway...
Well, at least I've only failed to see 60% of the game.
Anyway, I plan to drop the curve a little overall, favor fewer specific mana a bit more, and change up some cards for the next time we play.
And now I'll finish with a big rant on Biorythm.
I did consider it, but you have to tell me how to win games with it. You should at least realise that the card is not an obviously good card and try to make a case for it. I mean, krosan cloudscraper wins games, but it's too expensive and is fairly fragile for that investment. Biorhythm isn't
thirteenten mana, but it is a fragile win. If your opponent is holding any burn, you lose after spending 6GG. If your opponent has more creatures than you, you lose out by playing it. If your opponent has equal creatures than you, you can't swing and win. If your opponent has any creature kill spell, you lose out in the math - and you may lose the game if they can get rid of all of your creatures to kill, burn, or bounce, which is a whole lot easier to do when you aren't spending 6GG in that turn (meaning they are a lot more likely to have the mana to cast the burn, bounce and kill). It's a dead card when you have six mana in play. It's dead when you play your seventh land. And if you have all this mana and your opponent doesn't have kill, burn, bonce, and you have more creatures and better creatures, don't you win already? And if not aren't you better off casting another big creature that doesn't lower your life total or perhaps casting fireball, capsize with buyback, debtor's knell, a huge dragon, sword of fire and ice, balance. I don't expect this to convince you because you like the card a lot. I just think you deserve to have some reasons why it's not up to the standards of the cube.Final thoughts: lowering the mana curve will help with counterspells, and as many of them are fairly expensive (4 and up). LD deserves another look as an archetype for R/B to push a bit more. It's certainly a way to win awesome fast that can compete with counterspells, just as discard is. Quagnoth is also probably going to get in the mix in green, which basically reads "pro blue on the stack, pro removal in play." Also, you and Excise need to start cutting into blue more often. We need to cut blue up savagely. It is the most powerful color, so play white blue or red blue and he should be playing blue black or blue green. Blue is too powerful to pass, honestly, and even a few cards in blue are worth splashing for, so if two players draft blue, it's usually deep enough to support both of those players.
-Skeletal Vampire is one of the best black finishers ever printed. He's pretty much second only to Kokusho in that category.
-I do recommend a heavily increased aggressive focus. This requires some redundancy and possibly some more "meh" creatures that simply fill curve and P/T, but the end result is worth it. Having a way to punish greedy decks is key to having a balanced cube.
I would like to give Sunscape Battlemage a go someday as his draw ability appears quite nice. I already run Mulldrifter and Phyrexian Gargantua in my Cube, and Battlemage and Citanul Woodreaders sitting aside for consideration.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
We've had some IRL discussions in which popeclone mentioned virulent sliver before. He likes slivers and likes poison, but as I mentioned, I don't think virulent sliver really cuts it. Gemhide I did consider, as it's a great mana fixer. It's worth considering as the perfect way to expand green's 5-color support role. I'm inclined to include it if/when I expand the cube as mana-fixing is an important green role that makes the color worth playing. Being able to cherrry pick other color's bomsb makes a green (normally creature based) deck much more worth it. That's why harrow isn't going anywhere. Mana fixing, I think needs a stronger presence in the green, not less.
Waylay has been re-errata'd to be playable as originally printed. They undid all of their errata that was based on nerfing power level about a year ago.
Mulldrifter is just a matter of me getting one, (I haven't bought packs since FS) and Phyrexian Gargantua was a card I considered. I suppose the body is pretty impressive and it is a night's whisper on legs. I don't think phyrexian rager is worth it, though, do you? And isn't citanul woodreaders just a kind of dead body? Actually, checking the card link, I can see that it's a 1/4, which is much better at blocking than the 1/3 I thought it was. It's still pretty much dead aside card draw - what green decks want their green creatures to be defensive? I'd rather harmonize, which is another card and two mana cheaper. The modular element is dead imo, no one wants a straight-up 1/4; the only way to play this card is with kicker. (unless you have lonely equipment, I suppose.)
I do plan on getting the creature curve more agressive and accepting a bit more meh. It's important to have that curve filled, from 2 to 5 evenly. And Magic has definitely concentrated its most powerful cards at ,, and 6. But I don't see skeletal vampire's awesomeness. The batspawning is so expensive. If you have nothing else to do, he's a slow meloku. But meloku can start getting incrimental advantages with 1, not 3BB. Which is not to say that just because meloku is better that skeletal vampire isn't worth it. I think he (like a lot of cards - *tahngarth*) needs to have us treat it with a little more confidence and test runs.
No it hasn't it still gains substance which means no matter what they are gone the turn you played it. There are plenty of cards which still have errata that makes them worse than whats printed on the card.
Also thawing glaciers is still like that.. Zodiac dragon is still power level errata'd to non-existance aswell.
Yeah, you're right. I had misread 314.3 in the CompRules.
another open slot!
What a dick move for wizards to only change some of the power errata. It's a stupid policy, especially since these cards in question are only played in formats that are used to banning/restricing. I don't see how the errata really changes thawing glaciers, but zodiac dragon and waylay deserve to be as printed. It's not like zodiac dragon breaks psychatog. I'm pretty sure dr. teeth is good all by his lonesome. And who is freaking worried about waylay's power level? They just need to accept they made a mistake in printing and let is stand. It's not like skullclamp wasn't a mistake of a similar sort. I guess if the designer is stupid, it stands. If the editor is stupid, it doesn't.
Wizard's doesn't consider these erratas, power level errata. Like time vault, they call it "restoring the original purpose" of the card.
Cube players shouldn't care of DCI and WotC Cards such are Gifts Given are even unplayable if you consider MtG rules (Can't putt cards from your opponent's deck in your hand if you follow MtG rules) but Cube rules can allow this.
About strong B finishers : I still prefer Sengir Nosferatu to Skeletal Vampire. and both are far of Kokusho and Ink-eyes
Lifegain is better than you give it credit for. Loxodon Warhammer, Exalted Angel, Mourning Thrull all do very well due to Lifegain. I'm not advocating fountain of youth, but judicious applications of lifegain critters/spells could be beneficial.
Bio is a very green way to outright win. Reconsider banning it for CC reasons, it's in the mana color. It is a topdeck win in quite a few situations. all you have to do is make sure you have the mana. You say Arcanis is for Johnny, what about Bio?
Popeclone = Pro Bio. Pro LD.
What about Elvish Piper?
Redundancy
There are too many dup cards in this set. I don't mean multiple discard effects or burn spells, I mean dups. Like Calciderm and Blastoderm, or Resurrection and Zombify. I challenge the notion that these dup cards are good for the cube. With as few slots as the cube already has, it is very important to give each color cards that support its goals. In the example of Calciderm and Blastoderm, Blastoderm fits into a green aggro build that plays Troll Ascetic and Phantom Centaur, whereas White has another in a long line of temporary threats. (Hello, Jotun Grunts!) The way the cube is constructed now, it just seems like you're trying to use the same tricks in each color to win games, and limited doesn't work that way. In order to play limited you need to have strong identities for each color. This gives a deck a sense of constancy, and also when you play an opponent and see a splash of a color, you know what to expect.
Splashability
Speaking of splashing colors, I have a real problem with the cards chosen, simply because too many of them are too mana intensive. Double WW and triple RRR. It is very hard to draft this cube, with all the mana hungry cards in it. Some colors suffer for this more than others. The reason I say that is that these cards with the high mana intensity are less important to some colors' strategy than others. Because of the color intensity, you really have to commit to some colors if you're going to play them, and in a pack distribution where there are literally only 6 cards of a color per person, this is hard to do.
Multi Color
When you take the splashability factor and add the high number of multi color cards in the cube, I also have a problem trying to draft a usable pile of cards. Not only are the 5 friendly colors represented, but the 5 enemy color combos as well. There is an uneven color distribution, which I don't have a problem with, except that in this case the skew seems to favor the already well represented control aspect of the cube. Multi color is not a bad thing to help shore up weaknesses in individual colors, but with the pack distribution it also assures each pack will have a small slathering of everything and not have any focus on color or archetype. I can see the cube being better with less multi color in it.
Theme Selection
When I draft the cards in the cube as it stands now, there is some frustrating lack of themes in colors that would need them. There is no weenie theme in white, red or green. There is little life gain or enchantment/artifact destruction in the cube. And then on the other hand, there are themes that seem over emphasized. There is a strong reanimator theme in white, black and green. White has a very strong protection theme, particularly from red and black. This sort of goes back to the point I made under Redundancy, but it seems like you only focused on themes that interest you, or themes that you feel are good. Unfortunately the checks and balances in the game are such that these sorts of pesky themes come in handy and players want to be able to draft a sideboard that will help them win game two. I can't tell you how frustrating Debtor's Knell is when you no there is no way in your deck to stop it. So some of themes need to relax and others need to be established or brought into focus.
Many Different Players
The final general point I want to address is the fact that this cube does not support all the different types of players who enjoy a draft. In particular, I don't feel this cube invites me to play. The decks it supports are not the types I enjoy playing. I like a deck that can lay down a simple threat with some evasion, has a toolbox for potential setbacks and wins with a nice win condition. I like baiting a counterspell out with a cheap creature in order to play my better spell. I like combat and I like combat tricks. I don't like a cube loaded with bloated cards, 10 reset buttons and cheap cheap counterspells. This cube needs to appeal to a wider variety of deck builders.
A Special Message about Counterspells
So let me say something about Counterspells. There's nothing wrong with them. But I dislike the over abundance of them in blue. This cube has a wall of Blue control that, coupled with the reset buttons and tempo stoppers (Tangle Wire, ftw!) is annoying to stop. No other color has a mechanical means of getting around this counterspell wall. The usual systemic means of discard, weenie and counter control do not exist in the cube. I'm not saying blue needs to be nerfed, but you'll notice WotC didn't start making cards like Akroma until after it increased the cost of counterspell from 2 to 3+. Having the best cards from the history of the game, means the cube's counter suite is getting around the auto correct. So every player trying to play a 4+ mana card spell, after getting around the format's restrictive mana requirements and multicolor saturation, is just fooling himself, because Counter Spell is the inevitable result. It's an important element of the drama and excitement of the game, but when EVERY spell gets countered you pass the threshold of fun and entire the realm of frustration. The cube will benefit from some spells that can't be countered, Cards with better activated abilities, Split second spells, lower casting cost aggro cards, etc.
I want to like this cube, but my complaints have thus far been construed as whiney. I don't want to waste my breath if your cube philosophy would preclude these changes from being considered. It does seem like the cube is going to change, and maybe it won't be in a direction I like more, but I'm willing to wait and see. I do want to enjoy the cube. (Have you named it yet?)
Very true. We play with Booster Tutor and Rare-B-Gone all the time. Who cares if they aren't tournament legal. Booster Tutor is especially fun, you just make another 15 card pile for Booster Tutor, and try your luck. Sometimes you get jank, but sometimes you find that Karmic Guide that can reanimate your Kiki Jiki so you can Hulk Flash your opponent's ass for the win (of course, you still need a sac outlet).
Check out my pauper cube!
and thanks to PurpleD @ [<--- Left Play Design <---] for making this awesome banner!
Limited is awesome, join us at [Limited]!
(Would you rather have Elvish piper or Gaea's herald? Just curious, because I own neither.)
(Arcanis is for Timmy, and a little for spike as well.)
LD should play an important role and the more I think about it, the more it needs a bit more of a nudge to really take off. A nudge, though, because there's a lot going on in Red and Black, which is where I am going to center the archetype. I know Red/green seems like the initially obvious choice, but black has got a fair amount to contribute to LD including synergy with discard, and a few LD spells of its own.
Loxodon Warhammer is another broken equipment, though not as bad as jitte/sofie/clamp. It's on the list of considered cards, and exalted I just don't own enough of to put one in. It's not like something was excluded because it had lifegain. But unlike Weenie and LD, it's not really a mechanic that needs to be pushed to an archetype. Lifegain is not a Linear mechanic, meaning it's fine to just have one lifegain spell.
What can I say? I am trying to listen to your suggestions so I can improve things. But I was really surprised by your and Popeclone's consistent and thoroughly negative reaction.
So Blastoderm is good because it is similar to and works well with Troll Ascetic and Phantom Centaur.
And Calciderm is bad because it is similar to and works well with Jotun Grunt.
Are you saying that four or five duplicate/timeshifted-esque cards are enough to ruin color identities? Or are you saying white should have no midrange? I really couldn't follow this.
And you mention that a deck needs constancy in limited; how is that not served by redundant cards? Redundant cards = Constancy.
And I think you have enough of an idea of the kinds of cards you can expect when someone drops a swamp or forest. Both calciderm and blastoderm are really powerful and annoying cards to face - they are both worth being in the cube and I see no benefit of exluding one because it is too similar to the other.
And how exactly is white's game plan of temporary threats, powerful mass removal spells, and bomb finishers the wrong approach to the color? You only seem to be able to see what's you don't like, and I think the good stuff going on is being overlooked.
There's always going to be some issue of high specific mana concentration because that's one of the ways Wizards "easily" ramps up the power level on cards. There is likewise a high level of mana-fixers in the cube. And any solutions are always going to leave some tension with sticking to colors: that's simply part of drafting, especially with powerful cards.
But I have heard your legitimate concern here and steps will be taken to assuage these concerns. Cards like Mistral Charger are high on the list of possible includes and other cards are going to have to be more carefully examined for specific mana requirements. It's never going to be the only reason for a card, but it is now a more important factor to be considered.
Furthermore, in addition to the mana in artifacts and lands, green will be getting more attention as the hub for a multicolored deck. This metagame adaptation of green's role will allow it to serve another purpose and open up a new archetype for green: the 5-color hub.
More than half the gold is creatures, and overall this cube has a higher creature percentage than most cubes. It also has a high/average percentage of artifact/enchantment hate while we're on it. I did my research, and I made sure to include more of the things you like: creatures and disenchant effects. Still you are unsatisfied.
Furthermore, the packs I have produced, aside from the higher OAL presence, look the most like real packs of any shuffling method I've seen for a cube. Still you are unsatisfied.
I think color/archetype focus in normal packs comes from there being standout cards of those colors. And in these packs, every card stands out, meaning that no cards stand out. Besides, the more you make the packs randomized to have large pockets of say, 5 white cards, the more likely you are to face a pack with nothing in it for you from the get go. I've never had a problem drafting two colors with a splash of a third in the cube. And it's not like you can't build a deck if you only have 20 total on-color cards between your two main colors. Every card is good enough to include.
(Final note here would be that like specific mana gets another look as a criterion for inclusion, so inversely will hybrid mana get a small bump of being more favored for being more splashable.)
Weenies (Four or less CCC)
White weenies: 13 out of 21 creatures (62%)
Red weenies: 9 out of 18 creatures (50%)
Green Weenies: 17 out of 23 creatures (74%)
The protection theme isn't there in any deliberate fashion: as I noted above to Popeclone, I only "push" themes if they are linear mechanics and protection isn't. Protection is included as an averter to removal, which is typically red or black.
Life gain isn't needed in the way that other artcheypes can be argued for. Furthermore, lifegain cards are largely crap, cutting the pool of great lifegain cards to a minimum.
Artifact/Enchantment Hate (Bounce and Counter noted also as 'solutions' to artifacts and enchantments.)
White: 4
Blue: 0 (2 bounce / 9 counter)
Black: 0
Red : 5
Green: 2
Gold: 5 (2 bounce / 4 counter)
Artifact: 2
Land: 0
Total: 18 (4 bounce / 13 counter)
More disenchant effects than counterspells? Hm...
I plan on trying to lower the overall cost a little bit, but because powerful cards tend to be expensive, and because draft favors a more normalized bellcurve in costs, there will still be expensive cards, quite a few.
I did put in a lot of things to appeal to you and you complained about them. I expected you to be excited about the larger creatures and big effects. Quite the opposite. I thought the Johnny in you would like the reanimator graveyard theme as a combo-like mechanic that still works well in incomplete parts. Quite the opposite. I added a lot of disenchant effects, way more than the average cube. There weren't enough.
I made sure there were enough reset buttons and removal to balance the huge awesome game-swinging threats. Then I supplemented the fatties with their own answer to the removal: reanimator. Did this balance please you? No, of course not. The whole system was broken.
There's not enough red weenies. Not enough red beef. I don't understand white, green and red because I'm blinded by my myopia. I made sure to put in a lot of green and white weenies only to find out there weren't any at all in the cube. Colors are too consistent but they lack consistency.
Solutions
1) Draft blue.
2) Some steps should be taken to give some answers to the counterspell mechanic, which I agree is demonstrably and game-winningly powerful. This means split second goes up in value, the overall cost goes down a bit. Blue hosers mean a little more. (Red elemental Blast, Eyes of the Wisent)
3) #2 can only take us so far; see #1.
There hasn't been a game where every card was countered, not even close. There have been games where every spell played had to ask if it was going to resolve, and that's what happens at the highest levels of play when your opponent has islands untapped. Don't mistake representing a counterspell with having one.
But none of this is to deny that counterspells are powerful, probably the most powerful mechanic in the cube, let alone Magic at large. Control is the most powerful archetype and blue is the most powerful color: are you really surprised that the best Magic cards would lead to this result? And are you going to keep insisting that this is my fault when the slightly lowered costs don't fix the problem? I recognize that blue is, at the moment, the top dog that you either play or beat, but even with some new tech, blue, counters, and generally speaking, control is probably going to remain at or near the top.
It is kind of dissapointing to realise how unfavorably the whole thing has been received. And the intention of stating a philosophy for the cube was to help to guide discussion whereas it has been interpreted as doing the opposite. I want to make the cube composed of the most poweful cards and most powerful archetypes. It needs polish and some of the colors and mechanics do need balance (but the only way they can move is up - nothing gets weakened) but it would be nice if the criticism were tempered, at least some of the time. You're breath isn't wasted. But it doesn't help to make me feel like all my effort on the cube is wasted, either.
In summation,
1) other colors and mechanics can be raised to blue/counter's level, but blue/counter won't be lowered in power.
2) I don't see any issue with redundant cards and I think it's the wierdest place to take a stand.
3) mechanics aren't going to be introduced just for the sake of variety. Lifegain belongs if it wins games. Toolboxes belong if the tools are up to snuff.
4) changes are happening but they are far from drastic. They will be based around various ways to lower costs and specific mana subtly and reflect blue's top dog status.
5) cut me some ****ing slack.
Booster Tutor is really too inconsistent; I think it's getting the choice of four to six playable cards in a pack, which isn't very powerful for a tutor. I did consider it, though, as the idea is cool. And Rare-b-gone was too much of a pain because of all of the pre-colored expansion symbols. For similar reasons I didn't include frazzled editor. I was looking at the two Akromas I own and wondering which I would include (for aesthetic reasons) when it occured to me that one of them had four lines of text and the other had three. I didn't want to face this question for every card in the cube with errata or mutiple printings, so I just booted the editor.
But I think any un-card should be included as long as you're willing to handle the issues it raises ruleswise.
**W
Momentary Blink replaces Waylay
Savannah Lions replaces Jotun Grunt
Temporal Isolation replaces Oblation
+Whipcorder
+Squall Drifter
+Mistral Charger
**U
Cloud of Faeries replaces waterfront bouncer
Bribery replaces Arcanis the omnipotent
Fathom Seer replaces Court Hussar
+Mana Leak
+Chromeshell Crab
+Maelstrom Djinn
**B
Mesmeric Fiend replaces Ichorid
Befoul replaces Buried Alive
Helldozer replaces Cabal Patriarch
Faceless Butcher replaces Undead Gladiator
Sudden Death replaces Reckless Spite
+Bane of the Living
+Silent Specter
+Soul Collector
**R
Pillage replaces Icefall
Hearth Kami replaces Viashino Heretic
Gathan Raiders replaces Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Pain Kami replaces Skarrgan Firebird
+Sudden Shock
+Red Elemental Blast
+Stone Rain
**G
Quagnoth replaces Tornado Elemental
Sakura-Tribe Elder replaces Beacon of Creation
Krosan Grip replaces Greater Good
+Gemhide Sliver
+Hystrodon
+Nantuko Vigilante
**:symur:
Army Ants replaces Kaervek the Merciless
Wrecking Ball replaces Blizzard Specter
+Giant Solifuge
+Selesnya Guildmage
+Savage Twister
**1
Isochron Scepter Replaces Scrabbling Claws
Defense Grid replaces Su-Chi
+Loxodon Warhammer
+Bonesplitter
+Darksteel Ingot
**LAND
+Vesuva
+Tendo Ice Bridge
+Zoetic Cavern
Helldozer - not on its own merits as much as a way to shore up R/ LD
Army Ants - to add to the LD theme. Also a very good way to win early.
Sakura-Tribe Elder - to replace tornado elemental. Cheaper and mana-fixing.
Krosan Grip One of the best disenchant effects.
Selesnya Guildmage - a good weenie, much like all of the guildmages.
Momentary blink - versatile, count 187 effects. (28, very lenient)
Giant Solifuge is the perfect replacement for shivan wurm
The archetypes seem to be well thought out.
U/x Control is my least favorite theme, and I see you've added both Mana Leak AND Isocron Scepter to the Cube, so this theme will now be extra annoying.
W/B Reanimator is an interesting idea, and helps me accept both Zombify and Resurrection Co-existing. This theme is also supported well by Eternal Dragon, Noble Templar and Twisted Abomination. It does however show how inappropriate Samurai of the Pale Curtain is, since it nerfs your graveyard as well.
B/R Sucide Control is already great by virtue of the color combo, but all the LD will really push it over the top. Control gets a lot of love from this Cube.
I don't know if I see the W/G theme. What's the idea behind W/G in this Cube? The other archetypes are a lot more apparent. Like, what cards go in it?
5-Color Hub is an interesting idea and I bet it plays really well against the other archetypes.
Point about SotPC noted.
Exalted is in a deck right now and I'm contemplating buying another. But they are not cheap.