Enchantment version of Crucible of Worlds in green. It has the upside of generally being harder to remove than Crucible or Ramunap Excavator, but loses on the corresponding artifact or creature interactions. Real bad with Dark Confidant and can't be reanimated (still have to unlock the door).
Forgotten Cellar as a 5 mana Yawgmoth's Will seems quite slow to me, but it is still an upside if the primary goal is to cast Walk in Closet. You can also blink it if you want to trigger the effect for multiple turns (but, you still have to pay full retail to unlock).
I am curious how folks would ultimately rank this card against Crucible of Worlds, Ramunap Excavator, and Conduit of Worlds. I think it is quite good, but I will probably still stick with Crucible and Ramunap Excavator.
I would rank the Crucible-style cards Crucible > Walk-In Closet > Ramunap > Conduit. Being able to tutor for Crucible with Goblin Engineer is a thing of beauty and more than makes up for its vulnerability to artifact removal. It's also colorless, which comes into play quite often when your deck is filled with Wastelands and Landscapes. Ramunap gets points for being tutorable by Wordly Tutor and Imperial Recruiter and sometimes deters 2/X's, but it's way too vulnerable and gets swept away by your own Wildfire. Conduit of Worlds is too expensive and color intensive. I find that the land deck plays primarily like a combo deck, so the longevity which Conduit offers isn't really worth the cost.
Yeah this card is going straight into my cube and Ramunap is going out.
Sure, Ramunap is a 2/3 creature that gets more easily tutored for. But the objective of Ramunap and the only reason you would play it in your deck is for the Crucible effect, and Walk-In Closet is the same price but harder to remove as an enchantment.
Also, the other 5 mana Yawgmoth's Will room is very relevant I feel to be the tie-breaker for Closet vs Ramunap. It is not trivial that one day in your ramp deck you will be able to recast your Time Walk, Lotus, Random 3 Mana Planeswalker, 2 Drop Creature or anything for that matter.(Note: Yawgmoth's will allows you to not only cast spells but play lands as well, however since we do have the crucible part for playing lands, it's essentially the same).
I've always wanted a green crucible on an enchantment (or even better, a planeswalker). Times have changed though with the monarch / initiative metagame where having creatures on the board is very key. Obviously this is better as a pure Crucible effect for combos since it's harder to get rid of than Ramunap / Crucible, but it also lacks the creature / artifact synergies that the others have. The second room is going to be an expensive Regrowth most of the time, not a straight up Yawgmoth's Will. People are bringing up storm, but that doesn't make sense to me since green doesn't contribute much to storm and the Yawgmoth's Will half is way too expensive anyways.
Definitely a great card for the lands matters archetype, but I think this was a couple years too late for me personally. While not pure Crucible effects, Six and Wrenn and Realmbreaker can play a similar role while doing much more.
I've always wanted a green crucible on an enchantment (or even better, a planeswalker). Times have changed though with the monarch / initiative metagame where having creatures on the board is very key. Obviously this is better as a pure Crucible effect for combos since it's harder to get rid of than Ramunap / Crucible, but it also lacks the creature / artifact synergies that the others have. The second room is going to be an expensive Regrowth most of the time, not a straight up Yawgmoth's Will. People are bringing up storm, but that doesn't make sense to me since green doesn't contribute much to storm and the Yawgmoth's Will half is way too expensive anyways.
Definitely a great card for the lands matters archetype, but I think this was a couple years too late for me personally. While not pure Crucible effects, Six and Wrenn and Realmbreaker can play a similar role while doing much more.
I feel if we want lands to be more viable, there needs to be another good utility land or land based win con
I feel if we want lands to be more viable, there needs to be another good utility land or land based win con
Yeah, lands matters has always been more of a subtheme for me rather than a whole blown archetype. Crucible of Worlds / Ramunap Excavator are already very narrow / niche cards, and this is even more niche. Being an enchantment doesn't do it any favors for synergy, only durability. Wrenn and Six / Wrenn and Realmbreaker / Six are more than enough for me right now, especially since they bring much more to the table than just recurring lands.
I am sticking to Ramunap for now. I find the Forgotten Cellar feels like an ultimate that will happen very rarely, and not worth the complexity it will bring. Will check play results, though.
I think the Cellar side is better than it looks at first glannce. It will be sitting on the board already waiting to be unlocked in a lot of cases, and even if it only serves as an expensive way to replay one spell, it's still all free upside stapled to your Crucible. Flood/ramp insurance that gives you something to spend excess mana on after returning all your lands to play over the course of the game. And replaying any spell is nice. I think it's a pretty relevant upside to have that free spell attached to the main reason you run the card.
The only thing about this card that I dislike is the name of the cheaper room.
I feel if we want lands to be more viable, there needs to be another good utility land or land based win con
Yeah, lands matters has always been more of a subtheme for me rather than a whole blown archetype. Crucible of Worlds / Ramunap Excavator are already very narrow / niche cards, and this is even more niche. Being an enchantment doesn't do it any favors for synergy, only durability. Wrenn and Six / Wrenn and Realmbreaker / Six are more than enough for me right now, especially since they bring much more to the table than just recurring lands.
I'm likely adding Tectonic Edge to my cube along side Dust Bowl. I always liked Tectonic Edge, but I just couldn't justify the land slot.
It's going in for me. I don't run crucible because I don't want it to be a colourless effect; glad to have another 3cmc version of the effect.
I like it being an enchantment, it means my opponent can't just hold up creature removal to avoid the strip mine lock, they have to also worry about being able to remove an enchantment. It let's the deck play better against the black and red decks especially.
The 5cmc side is over costed, but it's all upside to an already playable enchantment.
We have been running GQ for a while and I like it, but we also go deep on extra land drop stuff, so it's more possible to loop it & run them out of basics. I also really like having an extra answer in the pool for Karakas / Cradle / Academy
Would anyone play Ghost Quarter in their cube with this many land recursion engines?
IMO, Ghost Quarter is underwhelming since taking out a dual / mana fixing land doesn't do anything most of the time, and that's the majority of your targets. Truly scary lands like Library of Alexandria / Urza's Saga / Creeping Tar Pit / etc are few and far between. Personally I would only consider if my cube were in a position where all 20 guild manlands are highly played.
Enchantment version of Crucible of Worlds in green. It has the upside of generally being harder to remove than Crucible or Ramunap Excavator, but loses on the corresponding artifact or creature interactions. Real bad with Dark Confidant and can't be reanimated (still have to unlock the door).
Forgotten Cellar as a 5 mana Yawgmoth's Will seems quite slow to me, but it is still an upside if the primary goal is to cast Walk in Closet. You can also blink it if you want to trigger the effect for multiple turns (but, you still have to pay full retail to unlock).
I am curious how folks would ultimately rank this card against Crucible of Worlds, Ramunap Excavator, and Conduit of Worlds. I think it is quite good, but I will probably still stick with Crucible and Ramunap Excavator.
Im just not sure how I feel about another loam style effect without another good utility land like Wasteland
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Sure, Ramunap is a 2/3 creature that gets more easily tutored for. But the objective of Ramunap and the only reason you would play it in your deck is for the Crucible effect, and Walk-In Closet is the same price but harder to remove as an enchantment.
Also, the other 5 mana Yawgmoth's Will room is very relevant I feel to be the tie-breaker for Closet vs Ramunap. It is not trivial that one day in your ramp deck you will be able to recast your Time Walk, Lotus, Random 3 Mana Planeswalker, 2 Drop Creature or anything for that matter.(Note: Yawgmoth's will allows you to not only cast spells but play lands as well, however since we do have the crucible part for playing lands, it's essentially the same).
So, in conclusion, slam dunk.
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StaffDefinitely a great card for the lands matters archetype, but I think this was a couple years too late for me personally. While not pure Crucible effects, Six and Wrenn and Realmbreaker can play a similar role while doing much more.
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I feel if we want lands to be more viable, there needs to be another good utility land or land based win con
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StaffYeah, lands matters has always been more of a subtheme for me rather than a whole blown archetype. Crucible of Worlds / Ramunap Excavator are already very narrow / niche cards, and this is even more niche. Being an enchantment doesn't do it any favors for synergy, only durability. Wrenn and Six / Wrenn and Realmbreaker / Six are more than enough for me right now, especially since they bring much more to the table than just recurring lands.
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I am sticking to Ramunap for now. I find the Forgotten Cellar feels like an ultimate that will happen very rarely, and not worth the complexity it will bring. Will check play results, though.
The only thing about this card that I dislike is the name of the cheaper room.
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I'm likely adding Tectonic Edge to my cube along side Dust Bowl. I always liked Tectonic Edge, but I just couldn't justify the land slot.
I like it being an enchantment, it means my opponent can't just hold up creature removal to avoid the strip mine lock, they have to also worry about being able to remove an enchantment. It let's the deck play better against the black and red decks especially.
The 5cmc side is over costed, but it's all upside to an already playable enchantment.
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StaffIMO, Ghost Quarter is underwhelming since taking out a dual / mana fixing land doesn't do anything most of the time, and that's the majority of your targets. Truly scary lands like Library of Alexandria / Urza's Saga / Creeping Tar Pit / etc are few and far between. Personally I would only consider if my cube were in a position where all 20 guild manlands are highly played.
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