The comparison is not that accurate though, as the tokens get made based on how many card types there are among the discarded cards. You need to cast this for a really high amount for this to be a drawback, as most decks have a mix of lands, instants, sorceries, creatures and artifacts with some enchantments and planeswalkers.
However, the upside on that is huge: if you discard an artifact creature, you just made 2 1/1 fliers for 2 mana, and got the creature in your graveyard for reanimating. That makes this card insanely good for UR artifact reanimator (with Goblin Welder, Daretti, Scrap Savant and friends).
Overall this seems absolutely amazing. Secure the Wastes has been in my cube since the start, and adding card selection and potential use as a graveyard enabler on top of that makes me super excited for this card.
Yeah, this seems pretty good to me since you're always netting at least 1 spirit to mitigate any card disadvantage. Curves well into Recurring Nightmare since it bins the creature and generates fodder. Being instant speed is nice also. Definitely a good option if you're looking for a new discard outlet.
Decent fan of this. I'm thinking of it as a dig spell+a fog for control and ramp decks, loot for reanimator, and it's not really an aggro card but if you're in an aggressive blue deck there's a good chance you have Opposition anyways, which I'm sure you'd play this alongside. Unfortunately for other aggressive blue decks that don't have Opposition, yea this is probably a miss.
Not super excited, but always happy to try new stuff. Instants usually play better than they read so I'm down to give this a spin.
Its likely a 3 mana, draw 3 discard 2 create 2 spirits or 2 mana draw 2 discard 1 create 1 spirit.
Great for Reanimator, Polymorph etc.
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Is this better or worse than Pull from Tomorrow? Pull can give you actual card advantage, but making flying blockers while digging can save lives.
I think this would probably better take up the slot of some flash creature than a card draw spell. It's hard to say it's filling the role of Venser, Shaper Savant, though maybe it kind of is.
This has some serious sleeper potential. Just bought one from a guy in the parking lot after he bought a commander set so I can try it during a Cube event this weekend. This commander singles are always so hard to find on release day, at least in my area.
I don't really like that this is always card disadvantage and a lot of the time you're gonna get like 2-3 spirits.
3 CMC, discard 2 to draw 2 + make 2 spirits isn't really card disadvantage.
I don't think this card is for everyone - but if you have Polymorph/ Reanimator in your cube, this is a good card.
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Yeah this isn't card disadvantage; it's like a weird Midnight Haunting + loots. The card itself buys you flying tokens that should be at least slightly useful to most decks, and probably very useful with all the archetypes people have already mentioned. I don't think it looks amazing but I get the sense it's a reasonable nuts-and-bolts style card that help bridge plans together.
Discard outlet that advances your tempo is hard to come by. Thirst for Knowledge is a great effect, but taking turn 3 to pay 3 to loot sets you too far behind.
The other thing is cube decks (unlike modern/ legacy) often curve into 4-6 drops because of card availability. In general, a 6 drop is traditionally a 4 for 1 - Extra draws in the late game is invaluable.
I will add a few more selling points:
- Spells matters decks are lower to the ground and will often want to discard lands - I made a firm commitment against 1 CMC cantrips worse than Preordain. I do not want my blue section to be entirely cantrips/ counter spells and I find my blue decks are often splashes and lack the turn 1 mana commitment.
- Answer based decks have excess cards that are bad in the main - looting is often a plus. Especially great with cards like Crucible/ Wreen/ Life from the Loam where cube decks lack good looting/ extra lands a turn style effects.
- Instant speed creatures are great answers against planeswalkers
- Endurance has proven in eternal formats - less as grave hate as more that a 3/4 reach body is great at ambushing attackers
- Win-Con for infinite mana combo + Thassa's Oracle (fringe, but nice to play a payoff that is good midgame)
- I would like to see more mainboard able X spells - Goblin/ Baral does reduce X cost spells. Helps to push them a bit more into mainboard for non storm decks.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Just drafted with the new cards, and I have some high praise for this. The person who drafted it was playing a UW control deck, and the card was really great. Throughout the early game it's good for blocking, and once you hit like x>2 the stats get really good for flash flyers strapped to loots. It kills attackers, plansewalkers, and even players once you hit like x=3 or 4, it really doesn't take that much mana to make an impact. We were all already super impressed, and it was made even better as a win condition that you could tutor off of Spellseeker and Mystical Tutor and flashback off of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in the mid to lategame. If you're on the fence, I'd really recommend you try it. It's a small sample size, but this has greatly overpreformed my expectations to say the least, and I already thought it was going to be pretty good.
I just saw this card in action, and was very pleasantly surprised. It's pretty easy to get three faeries out of two cards. It's not really like Mind Spring or other X draw spells because you're not trying to cast it for a lot of mana. The sweet spot seems like X= 2 or 3. But X=1 is quite solid if you can get 2 faeries out of it.
I've been liking how this has a lot of general applications as well as being a solid roleplayer as a discard outlet for graveyard decks and generating flyers for Moat decks. Being able to cast this at instant speed and dig for counter spells to protect your Moat lock is really big game. Discarding cards with multiple card types can override the card disadvantage. For example, if you cast this for 2U and discard Urza's Saga / some sort of artifact creature like Twinshot Sniper / Lion Sash or something, you make 4 birds for the price of 2U while also looting for 2.
You haven’t tru,y lived until you make 6 dudes from 3 cards.
I don't think that's possible in my cube without playing some tribal instants / sorceries like Tarfire, lol. Grist / Bitterblossom almost make it happen, but I can't think of a 3 card combination in my cube without at least one overlapping type. Just gonna have to settle for 5 dudes from 3 cards!
You haven’t tru,y lived until you make 6 dudes from 3 cards.
I don't think that's possible in my cube without playing some tribal instants / sorceries like Tarfire, lol. Grist / Bitterblossom almost make it happen, but I can't think of a 3 card combination in my cube without at least one overlapping type. Just gonna have to settle for 5 dudes from 3 cards!
Yeah it doesn’t seem possible from your list. Commit//Memory is the cheat code (or road//ruin, etc). Otherwise you need like grist blossom artifact land or a tribal nonpermanent.
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The more I play with Occult Epiphany, the higher I value it. It basically does everything from card filtering / discard outlet / flying over Moat / instant speed win condition / combat trick / graveyard critical mass / etc. IMO this is the probably the strongest mono blue card in my cube that's been printed in the past year or two alongside Hullbreacher. I consider it blue's Pest Infestation that trades in raw value for being instant speed, a better win condition, and contributing to more themes / archetypes.
Wow, I really slept of this one. My brain didn't really click onto the fact alot of cards have multiple card types, meaning it's not too hard to generate more tokens than the X cost. Casting it for 1U to filter a card and make 2 spirts is going to feel pretty good, especially when you get value from the card hitting the yard.
Definitly agree it isn't inhetantly card disadvantage. As long as I'm getting afew spirts it's partiy for me.
I like the card filtering alot, depending on the stage of the game I'm proabaly more excited to sculpt my hand and flash in some bodies than I would be with a couple more cards of raw card advantage.
Isn't even the worst top deck, I can represent a counter, generate bodies and fuel graveyard fun.
How has this card been doing for folks? I slept on it and now I want to give it another look. Worth a slot in a 465 card powered cube?
Cheers,
rant
It's been a top tier performer for me, I consider it blue's Pest Infestation. I think it's a shoe-in for the tightest of blue sections, especially since it wears so many hats.
In the 93 drafts that I have logged since the release of NEO, it's currently in the top X most represented blue cards in my 3-0 archive, only surpassed by Shark Typhoon / Hullbreacher / Force of Will and tied with True-Name Nemesis / Treachery.
A Secure the Wastes in blue that loots and makes flying tokens!
The comparison is not that accurate though, as the tokens get made based on how many card types there are among the discarded cards. You need to cast this for a really high amount for this to be a drawback, as most decks have a mix of lands, instants, sorceries, creatures and artifacts with some enchantments and planeswalkers.
However, the upside on that is huge: if you discard an artifact creature, you just made 2 1/1 fliers for 2 mana, and got the creature in your graveyard for reanimating. That makes this card insanely good for UR artifact reanimator (with Goblin Welder, Daretti, Scrap Savant and friends).
Overall this seems absolutely amazing. Secure the Wastes has been in my cube since the start, and adding card selection and potential use as a graveyard enabler on top of that makes me super excited for this card.
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Not super excited, but always happy to try new stuff. Instants usually play better than they read so I'm down to give this a spin.
Its likely a 3 mana, draw 3 discard 2 create 2 spirits or 2 mana draw 2 discard 1 create 1 spirit.
Great for Reanimator, Polymorph etc.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Add an extra mana to that though, since it's XU and not X. 3 mana draw 2, discard 2, make 1-3 tokens is still good but not godlike.
This >>> Pull from Tomorrow based on cost alone.
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I think this would probably better take up the slot of some flash creature than a card draw spell. It's hard to say it's filling the role of Venser, Shaper Savant, though maybe it kind of is.
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3 CMC, discard 2 to draw 2 + make 2 spirits isn't really card disadvantage.
I don't think this card is for everyone - but if you have Polymorph/ Reanimator in your cube, this is a good card.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The other thing is cube decks (unlike modern/ legacy) often curve into 4-6 drops because of card availability. In general, a 6 drop is traditionally a 4 for 1 - Extra draws in the late game is invaluable.
I will add a few more selling points:
- Spells matters decks are lower to the ground and will often want to discard lands - I made a firm commitment against 1 CMC cantrips worse than Preordain. I do not want my blue section to be entirely cantrips/ counter spells and I find my blue decks are often splashes and lack the turn 1 mana commitment.
- Answer based decks have excess cards that are bad in the main - looting is often a plus. Especially great with cards like Crucible/ Wreen/ Life from the Loam where cube decks lack good looting/ extra lands a turn style effects.
- Instant speed creatures are great answers against planeswalkers
- Endurance has proven in eternal formats - less as grave hate as more that a 3/4 reach body is great at ambushing attackers
- Win-Con for infinite mana combo + Thassa's Oracle (fringe, but nice to play a payoff that is good midgame)
- I would like to see more mainboard able X spells - Goblin/ Baral does reduce X cost spells. Helps to push them a bit more into mainboard for non storm decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
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I don't think that's possible in my cube without playing some tribal instants / sorceries like Tarfire, lol. Grist / Bitterblossom almost make it happen, but I can't think of a 3 card combination in my cube without at least one overlapping type. Just gonna have to settle for 5 dudes from 3 cards!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Yeah it doesn’t seem possible from your list. Commit//Memory is the cheat code (or road//ruin, etc). Otherwise you need like grist blossom artifact land or a tribal nonpermanent.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
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A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Definitly agree it isn't inhetantly card disadvantage. As long as I'm getting afew spirts it's partiy for me.
I like the card filtering alot, depending on the stage of the game I'm proabaly more excited to sculpt my hand and flash in some bodies than I would be with a couple more cards of raw card advantage.
Isn't even the worst top deck, I can represent a counter, generate bodies and fuel graveyard fun.
Cheers,
rant
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It's been a top tier performer for me, I consider it blue's Pest Infestation. I think it's a shoe-in for the tightest of blue sections, especially since it wears so many hats.
In the 93 drafts that I have logged since the release of NEO, it's currently in the top X most represented blue cards in my 3-0 archive, only surpassed by Shark Typhoon / Hullbreacher / Force of Will and tied with True-Name Nemesis / Treachery.
Chrome Mox: 22
Caldaia Guardian: 17
Birds of Paradise: 15
Hexdrinker: 14
Skullclamp: 14
Fable of the Mirror-Breaker: 14
Godless Shrine: 14
Fiery Islet: 13
City of Brass: 13
Smuggler's Copter: 12
Shark Typhoon: 12
Thraben Inspector: 12
Ancient Tomb: 12
Marsh Flats: 12
Hullbreacher: 12
Bloodstained Mire: 12
Demonic Tutor: 12
Force of Will: 12
Badlands: 12
Mana Confluence: 12
Swords to Plowshares: 11
Karakas: 11
Occult Epiphany: 11
Blade Splicer: 11
White Plume Adventurer: 11
True-Name Nemesis: 11
Palace Jailer: 11
Seasoned Dungeoneer: 11
Ash Barrens: 11
Sylvan Library: 11
Mox Diamond: 11
Restoration Angel: 11
Thoughtseize: 11
Watery Grave: 11
Recurring Nightmare: 11
Grief: 11
Treachery: 11
Pest Infestation: 11
Fury: 11
Wooded Foothills: 11
Blightstep Pathway: 11
Deep Forest Hermit: 10
Fyndhorn Elves: 10
Urza's Saga: 10
Sleight of Hand: 10
Esika's Chariot: 10
Tropical Island: 10
Blood Crypt: 10
Control Magic: 10
Dauthi Voidwalker: 10
Underground Sea: 10
Remand: 10
Verdant Catacombs: 10
Grist, the Hunger Tide: 10
Wandering Fumarole: 10
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