It is funny because IMHO Path to Exile drawback is much much worse and is considered a staple by the vast majority.
I have no strong opinion on this card, which seems to be like baleful mastery power-wise but in a color with lots of existing removal options.
But personnally I would cube this before Path to Exile which we just removed from our 540 powered list.
A bit of a disgression, but we found casting Path in the first 4 turns of a game to be too much of a drawback which is problematic for a removal spell.
(We think the same applies to Assassin's Trophy).
It is funny because IMHO Path to Exile drawback is much much worse and is considered a staple by the vast majority.
I have no strong opinion on this card, which seems to be like baleful mastery power-wise but in a color with lots of existing removal options.
But personnally I would cube this before Path to Exile which we just removed from our 540 powered list.
A bit of a disgression, but we found casting Path in the first 4 turns of a game to be too much of a drawback which is problematic for a removal spell.
(We think the same applies to Assassin's Trophy).
fwiw I agree that path is pretty overrated. My list of better removal spells on the previous page was roughly ordered.
Although the path downside is worse overall, it at least is fairly minimized in the late game. Conversely this card is better in the early game (when the 2 to crack a clue is more of a tempo hit) but early is also when costing 2 instead of 1 is the biggest deal.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
For those that think exile isn’t a big deal..
I scoured over my list and 21 2CMC+ creatures have significant graveyard value, indestructible or death triggers compared to 30 planes walkers in my list.
It’s not a head to head comparison , as the planes walkers are generally more important threats to deal with..
But that list doesn’t factor in the numerous ways to recur creatures in graveyards. 8 reanimation spells, kolaghans command, welder, daretti, Feldon , revilark and more.
Destroy PW + creature > exile creature, but it’s a lot closer than people here are acknowledging.
Path to exiles drawbback is worse but exile + half the mana makes it a better card.
Generally exile does not make or break a card. Change exile to destroy on any removal spell would nerf it sure, but would it change its viability? I don't think so. It's the same result when you do the opposite and change destroy to exile, IMO, the card's viability will remain the same.
Destroy PW + creature > exile creature, but it’s a lot closer than people here are acknowledging.
Yeah, but unconditional creature + PW removal at 2 mana / instant speed is quite the premium. There's no shortage of 1-2 cmc creature removal spells.
Path to exiles drawbback is worse but exile + half the mana makes it a better card.
Unless I missed something, I don't think anybody is arguing that this is a better card than Path to Exile.
Generally exile does not make or break a card. Change exile to destroy on any removal spell would nerf it sure, but would it change its viability? I don't think so. It's the same result when you do the opposite and change destroy to exile, IMO, the card's viability will remain the same.
Destroy PW + creature > exile creature, but it’s a lot closer than people here are acknowledging.
Yeah, but unconditional creature + PW removal at 2 mana / instant speed is quite the premium. There's no shortage of 1-2 cmc creature removal spells.
Path to exiles drawbback is worse but exile + half the mana makes it a better card.
Unless I missed something, I don't think anybody is arguing that this is a better card than Path to Exile.
You did miss something... one guy above did said he'd cube this before path =). I'm sure that's a rare opinion, not held by the majority of people in opposition to my view.
Agree that there's very few unconditional creature + pw removal for 2 mana @ instant speed. They all have steep drawbacks in one way or another.
It's a powerful flexibility.
Exile can make or break a card that's on the fence of inclusion imo... Given there's a lot of good white removal that this is competing with on the bench I think those smaller differences are important to examine and qualify.
Unexpectedly absent is miles and miles and miles better than this (and miles and miles and miles better than winds).
unexpectantly absent has been on the chopping block in my list for a while. after 61 drafts its been in the main less that 50% of the time. it has the 5th worst main deck percentage of all white cards in my cube and its not even a narrow spell. Its win percentage when in the mainboard after 181 games is the 6th worst of all white cards in my list.
It's not even in the top 320 cards in my 360 list. winds of abandon is in the top 120 by comparison. With an easier casting cost and a permanent solution, I expect fateful absence will have a much much higher main board percentage, which in a 360 list is something I want if i'm going to be running a card in my precious few slots.
Count me on the side of the skeptics. I don't like helping out my opponent, and I'd rather Journey to Nowhere almost every time. Noted I have a low planeswalker density, but I'd much rather play Oblivion Ring in a deck as well. I'll pay something like this if I can't get removal that gets the job done, but white doesn't have that problem.
Unexpectedly absent is miles and miles and miles better than this (and miles and miles and miles better than winds).
unexpectantly absent has been on the chopping block in my list for a while. after 61 drafts its been in the main less that 50% of the time. it has the 5th worst main deck percentage of all white cards in my cube and its not even a narrow spell. Its win percentage when in the mainboard after 181 games is the 6th worst of all white cards in my list.
It's not even in the top 320 cards in my 360 list. winds of abandon is in the top 120 by comparison. With an easier casting cost and a permanent solution, I expect fateful absence will have a much much higher main board percentage, which in a 360 list is something I want if i'm going to be running a card in my precious few slots.
I do not really know what to tell you. If it doesn’t work for your playgroup then it doesn’t work for your playgroup and I guess it makes sense for you to cut, but this sounds much more like a playgroup problem than a UA problem. If treated as a removal spell it’s like a top 5 removal spell in the entire available cardpool, it should be getting maindecked and winning way more than that.
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Unexpectedly absent is miles and miles and miles better than this (and miles and miles and miles better than winds).
unexpectantly absent has been on the chopping block in my list for a while. after 61 drafts its been in the main less that 50% of the time. it has the 5th worst main deck percentage of all white cards in my cube and its not even a narrow spell. Its win percentage when in the mainboard after 181 games is the 6th worst of all white cards in my list.
It's not even in the top 320 cards in my 360 list. winds of abandon is in the top 120 by comparison. With an easier casting cost and a permanent solution, I expect fateful absence will have a much much higher main board percentage, which in a 360 list is something I want if i'm going to be running a card in my precious few slots.
I do not really know what to tell you. If it doesn’t work for your playgroup then it doesn’t work for your playgroup and I guess it makes sense for you to cut, but this sounds much more like a playgroup problem than a UA problem. If treated as a removal spell it’s like a top 5 removal spell in the entire available cardpool, it should be getting maindecked and winning way more than that.
That could be an explanation except that this list is played regularly on xmage with what i would estimate is around 50+ drafters over the course of the past 4 years. Looking Steve's 3-0 archives which consists of data from multiple lists, you can also see a significant drop in the popularity of unexpectedly absent almost perfectly aligned with the release of winds which has now overtaken it as a white removal of choice.
It's a solid card and it sounds like it has been very strong for you, but the data from hundreds of drafts across multiple cubes with a wide variety of drafters shows that it has been losing ground steadily since late 2019.
I think swapping in fateful absence for this is completely reasonable as a test and will prove to be the better removal for cube in the long run.
Hmm. Thanks for the data, though it makes no sense to me.
I did sort of know it was undervalued/possibly misplayed, but not this much. I doubt the stats will support cutting it from the mtgo cubes anytime soon so I will just continue to enjoy getting them hilariously late and beating people over the head with them.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
UA's biggest problem might be that double white commitment, otherwise the card is pretty flawless. I think it's a little better than Fateful Absence because you achieve card parity with it; and if you're talking about on top of the library vs in the graveyard, there's a lot of times you'd rather put the thing on top. Not all the time. Anyways, Fateful Absence seems sweet. Combo with Runic Armasaur and Harsh Mentor... maybe.
No, it's been performing in line with Baleful Mastery, which also has been good.
Also, watch your tone. If the card hasn't been performing well for you, tell us about your testing results rather than trying to be a smartass about it.
Yeah I dunno, W doesn't get a lot of instants that say "destroy target creature" for 2 mana. When we get the card that doesn't let the controller investigate, I'll use that to replace this I guess
I haven't really been liking Declaration in Stone, so I wasn't much interested in this. Does this perform significantly better? Instant speed is a big deal, but I've been interested in replacing Declaration with something more along the lines of Prismatic Ending. It's a different kind of spell, and I'm not sure they compare.
I do think the value of a clue varies depending on the meta.
Instant speed exile target creature or planeswalker at two mana is worth a bit of downside, so I'm willing to accept if I've been wrong about this card.
No, it's been performing in line with Baleful Mastery, which also has been good.
Also, watch your tone. If the card hasn't been performing well for you, tell us about your testing results rather than trying to be a smartass about it.
Well the tone I was going for was humorous, but I guess that can be hit or miss in text.
I don’t have much in the way of testing results because it looked awful so I never added it to my cube, but it proved to be hugely overrated/disappointing in constructed, which isn’t a perfect proxy by any means but often does correlate. I’m always happy to have it played against me when playing other cubes and never impressed when I see it cast in other people’s games. In my experience aggressive decks have very little need for the PW clause because they can answer walkers well in the red zone, and prefer the nearly endless stream of great removal on white that is 1 cmc, exiles, and/or answer any permanent type. I guess it’s best in control but then the game is going long enough that they can definitely crack the clue and redraw a solid % of a threat.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I like this card better in aggro decks since opponents have a harder time finding a spot to pay the 2. I'd still play this in any deck, though. Trading an opponent's biggest threat for a random card is good. But I pick it less highly when drafting control than when I do drafting aggro.
I have no strong opinion on this card, which seems to be like baleful mastery power-wise but in a color with lots of existing removal options.
But personnally I would cube this before Path to Exile which we just removed from our 540 powered list.
A bit of a disgression, but we found casting Path in the first 4 turns of a game to be too much of a drawback which is problematic for a removal spell.
(We think the same applies to Assassin's Trophy).
fwiw I agree that path is pretty overrated. My list of better removal spells on the previous page was roughly ordered.
Although the path downside is worse overall, it at least is fairly minimized in the late game. Conversely this card is better in the early game (when the 2 to crack a clue is more of a tempo hit) but early is also when costing 2 instead of 1 is the biggest deal.
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I scoured over my list and 21 2CMC+ creatures have significant graveyard value, indestructible or death triggers compared to 30 planes walkers in my list.
It’s not a head to head comparison , as the planes walkers are generally more important threats to deal with..
But that list doesn’t factor in the numerous ways to recur creatures in graveyards. 8 reanimation spells, kolaghans command, welder, daretti, Feldon , revilark and more.
Destroy PW + creature > exile creature, but it’s a lot closer than people here are acknowledging.
Path to exiles drawbback is worse but exile + half the mana makes it a better card.
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Generally exile does not make or break a card. Change exile to destroy on any removal spell would nerf it sure, but would it change its viability? I don't think so. It's the same result when you do the opposite and change destroy to exile, IMO, the card's viability will remain the same.
Yeah, but unconditional creature + PW removal at 2 mana / instant speed is quite the premium. There's no shortage of 1-2 cmc creature removal spells.
Unless I missed something, I don't think anybody is arguing that this is a better card than Path to Exile.
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You did miss something... one guy above did said he'd cube this before path =). I'm sure that's a rare opinion, not held by the majority of people in opposition to my view.
Agree that there's very few unconditional creature + pw removal for 2 mana @ instant speed. They all have steep drawbacks in one way or another.
It's a powerful flexibility.
Exile can make or break a card that's on the fence of inclusion imo... Given there's a lot of good white removal that this is competing with on the bench I think those smaller differences are important to examine and qualify.
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unexpectantly absent has been on the chopping block in my list for a while. after 61 drafts its been in the main less that 50% of the time. it has the 5th worst main deck percentage of all white cards in my cube and its not even a narrow spell. Its win percentage when in the mainboard after 181 games is the 6th worst of all white cards in my list.
It's not even in the top 320 cards in my 360 list. winds of abandon is in the top 120 by comparison. With an easier casting cost and a permanent solution, I expect fateful absence will have a much much higher main board percentage, which in a 360 list is something I want if i'm going to be running a card in my precious few slots.
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I do not really know what to tell you. If it doesn’t work for your playgroup then it doesn’t work for your playgroup and I guess it makes sense for you to cut, but this sounds much more like a playgroup problem than a UA problem. If treated as a removal spell it’s like a top 5 removal spell in the entire available cardpool, it should be getting maindecked and winning way more than that.
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That could be an explanation except that this list is played regularly on xmage with what i would estimate is around 50+ drafters over the course of the past 4 years. Looking Steve's 3-0 archives which consists of data from multiple lists, you can also see a significant drop in the popularity of unexpectedly absent almost perfectly aligned with the release of winds which has now overtaken it as a white removal of choice.
It's a solid card and it sounds like it has been very strong for you, but the data from hundreds of drafts across multiple cubes with a wide variety of drafters shows that it has been losing ground steadily since late 2019.
I think swapping in fateful absence for this is completely reasonable as a test and will prove to be the better removal for cube in the long run.
I did sort of know it was undervalued/possibly misplayed, but not this much. I doubt the stats will support cutting it from the mtgo cubes anytime soon so I will just continue to enjoy getting them hilariously late and beating people over the head with them.
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That sort of data is pretty cool, and could be used as a nice this or that guideline.
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Yeah, I guess to be fair UA actually has several upsides over time walk.
But probably better to take that up on the UA thread, I’ve already gotten this one kind of off track 😆
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No, it's been performing in line with Baleful Mastery, which also has been good.
Also, watch your tone. If the card hasn't been performing well for you, tell us about your testing results rather than trying to be a smartass about it.
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I do think the value of a clue varies depending on the meta.
Instant speed exile target creature or planeswalker at two mana is worth a bit of downside, so I'm willing to accept if I've been wrong about this card.
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Well the tone I was going for was humorous, but I guess that can be hit or miss in text.
I don’t have much in the way of testing results because it looked awful so I never added it to my cube, but it proved to be hugely overrated/disappointing in constructed, which isn’t a perfect proxy by any means but often does correlate. I’m always happy to have it played against me when playing other cubes and never impressed when I see it cast in other people’s games. In my experience aggressive decks have very little need for the PW clause because they can answer walkers well in the red zone, and prefer the nearly endless stream of great removal on white that is 1 cmc, exiles, and/or answer any permanent type. I guess it’s best in control but then the game is going long enough that they can definitely crack the clue and redraw a solid % of a threat.
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