New Fact or Fiction that flashes back as a Dig Through Time. Having more control of the cards you get is nice tradeoff of not digging as deep / fueling the graveyard / not being as splashable. Definitely will be testing this along side Fact or Fiction, it'll be interesting to see how they compare side by side.
Wow, that is quite a draw spell.
Maybe too slow, but man.. the value is overwhelming.
you wouldn’t want many of these expensive haymaker draw spells in your deck, but this in conjunction with a bunch of cheap spells and instant speed interaction , seems really good.
This is essentially a 2 for 1 for 4 mana. 2 for 1 and 3 for 1 are incredibly different cards.
What I don't like about this card is its a bad Fact or Fiction and a bad Dig through time. Its not good for the graveyard decks, combo decks or control decks.
There are other good blue draw spells (outside of Fact or Fiction):
1. Drawn from Dreams is pretty much the best of the bunch for Combo/ Ramp shells
2. Pull from Eternity could be used as a discard outlet (X=0) on turn 2. Blue Sun's Zenith has combo potential with infinite mana sink. But both cards play the Blue Sun's Zenith role very nicely.
3. Deep Analysis provides insane raw card advantage and it has incredible synergy with discard effects.
The problem I have with a card like this is its theoretically good in everything, but only borderline playable in any of these blue shells.
Especially with the power creep, I feel cards really need to good in a minimum of 2 shells before considering.
* I cubed with all 4 of those cards before and they are fantastic. Its just unfortunate I do not have room for them anyone. Pull from Eternity is the most likely of the 4 to return.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It draws two cards and a 5UU Dig Through Time. Kinda draws 3 in that sense, unless you ignore the flashback, which is kinda what makes this card interesting at all, heh.
I'm unsure how good it will be though, but it could be worth testing.
I think this is the draw-go control draw spell of choice. I like this more than FoF in those kinds of decks, and this is a really powerful card. Likely testing.
I was initially off this as it feels like they have been pretty scared of powerful draw spells since Khans (can't say I blame them) so I just kind of assumed this would be another miss, but the more I thought about the more I liked it. As others have pointed out, there's a lot of times this is just better than FoF - if you don't care about binning cards, and your opponent is good, you almost never get the 2 best cards off a FoF. Here, you will always get the best 2 cards out of the top 4, which is great. It trades being slightly harder to cast and digging one less deep for a flashback mode that will be relevant in maybe 10% of games, but REALLY relevant when it is.
I'm testing this over compulsive research, which has just felt meh for a few years now.
I don't know if this is me but I've never been interested in any card that is essentially 3+ mana for 2 cards. If someone is willing to go this far down on tempo for a 2 for 1, then I would recommend they take the draw for slower, card economy matchups.
For eternal formats, I sometimes take the draw for Control mirrors and went +1 Spell Pierce in my sideboard and went -1 for Grindy finisher.
I personally would opt for these cards over this:
- Ancestral Visions
- Fact or Fiction
- Mystic Confluence/ Jace's Ingenuity - 5 mana instant speed 3 for 1.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I don't know if this is me but I've never been interested in any card that is essentially 3+ mana for 2 cards. If someone is willing to go this far down on tempo for a 2 for 1, then I would recommend they take the draw for slower, card economy matchups.
For eternal formats, I sometimes take the draw for Control mirrors and went +1 Spell Pierce in my sideboard and went -1 for Grindy finisher.
I personally would opt for these cards over this:
- Ancestral Visions
- Fact or Fiction
- Mystic Confluence/ Jace's Ingenuity - 5 mana instant speed 3 for 1.
Interesting that your group FoF in that because in my experience it's most common mode is taking 2 out of 5. Which is why this garnered some attention. You're getting the 2 best of 1 less card which is reasonably close to FoF. I haven't tested it because I've barely cubed since the new set but I'd definitely try it before Jace's Ingenuity I think. I don't expect this to make my list but it's pretty close to FoF against an opponent playing optimally.
I don't know if this is me but I've never been interested in any card that is essentially 3+ mana for 2 cards. If someone is willing to go this far down on tempo for a 2 for 1, then I would recommend they take the draw for slower, card economy matchups.
For eternal formats, I sometimes take the draw for Control mirrors and went +1 Spell Pierce in my sideboard and went -1 for Grindy finisher.
I personally would opt for these cards over this:
- Ancestral Visions
- Fact or Fiction
- Mystic Confluence/ Jace's Ingenuity - 5 mana instant speed 3 for 1.
Interesting that your group FoF in that because in my experience it's most common mode is taking 2 out of 5. Which is why this garnered some attention. You're getting the 2 best of 1 less card which is reasonably close to FoF. I haven't tested it because I've barely cubed since the new set but I'd definitely try it before Jace's Ingenuity I think. I don't expect this to make my list but it's pretty close to FoF against an opponent playing optimally.
I think the synergy with Uro, Liliana of the Veil, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Dack Fayden, Dig Through Time etc. more than makes up for it.
My problem with a card like this again is I don't feel its really particularly strong anywhere and doesn't really fill any role
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What synergy does FoF have with Lili or Dack? It puts cards in the bin like they do but they don't benefit from that in any particular way.
As for the other cards you listed they're just very different cards. This is a brute force card advantage engine. Apart from the discard 1 mode of thirst those are all card selection cards. Well and Narset but she's gold and competes in a very different group as a result. One thing I've noticed in my cube is that blue actually has very little burst draw at the moment. I have Ancestral, Twister, Time Spiral, FoF, Jace TMS, Mulldrifter, and Mystic Confluence (though it is usually used as a bounce and counter). The Twist spells barely count for this exercise and Ancestral is among the slam dunkiest of slam dunks and as a result I've noticed that blue decks can end up a little light on card draw and had been considering this to supplement my actual card advantage spells. I don't think it's quite good enough but I don't think it's far off either. I've been toying with trying it out over on of the mind control effects as an experiment because it's just so sweet in standard. Thirst, Impulse, Champion, and Stowaway are great card selection cards but they just don't give that boost of cards in hand that I sometimes want.
I probably should have explained - I the brute card advantage of FoF I find works very well with the others.
But then again, I find your list doesn't have Cruise, Dig, Uro, Welder, Wreen etc.
I got a few questions about your list:
- Why Thassa's Oracle without the Inverter half of the combo?
- How is Outpost Siege?
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I probably should have explained - I the brute card advantage of FoF I find works very well with the others.
But then again, I find your list doesn't have Cruise, Dig, Uro, Welder, Wreen etc.
I got a few questions about your list:
- Why Thassa's Oracle without the Inverter half of the combo?
- How is Outpost Siege?
Yeah we don't have a huge excess of cards that want a critical mass in your graveyard. We have a lot of twists and the decks that do care about the graveyard either already have their exile spell in Breach or want it to stick around in the case of Stax. My cube is in a very weird spot right now where it's just kind of the archetypes I personally enjoy.
Oracle is my primary storm win condition these days. It takes Underworld Breach decks to another level and gets around Eldrazi saving opponents from brain freeze.
Outpost siege is pretty mediocre. It's a pet card of mine but it's time is running out. It's a survivor of the days of midrange goodstuff being the best deck and it was pretty sweet in that window of time. Just haven't brought myself to cut it yet but once I finally cut Burning and Wildfire it's next on the chopping block. Edit: Siege was primarily used as a grindy card advantage engine but the Aristrocrats mode was definitely used a non zero amount of times to close out the last few points of damage.
With the mono color Manlands, Adversary cycle, BFZ lands, X spells/ kick, escape etc, eternalize etc. I just don't see us running out of things to do and needing these type of spells. I think efficiency is key.
On the other hand, I would opt for a planeswalker for control decks or 1-2 CMC draw spells for combo decks.
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For what it's worth if this sticks for us I expect it be entirely on the strength of the front side. I don't think it will be quite good enough but I really hope it will because I'm desperate for a burst card draw spell for combo/blue midrange decks. The flashback is a bonus but I suspect it will mostly only come up either in crazy long games or turns where someone is already comboing off.
New Fact or Fiction that flashes back as a Dig Through Time. Having more control of the cards you get is nice tradeoff of not digging as deep / fueling the graveyard / not being as splashable. Definitely will be testing this along side Fact or Fiction, it'll be interesting to see how they compare side by side.
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Maybe too slow, but man.. the value is overwhelming.
you wouldn’t want many of these expensive haymaker draw spells in your deck, but this in conjunction with a bunch of cheap spells and instant speed interaction , seems really good.
Probably will test
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Not splashable like FoF but I think this warrants testing at 540.
It will be this or FoF. Surprised to see a card like this.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
What I don't like about this card is its a bad Fact or Fiction and a bad Dig through time. Its not good for the graveyard decks, combo decks or control decks.
There are other good blue draw spells (outside of Fact or Fiction):
- Drawn from Dreams
- Pull from Eternity / Blue Sun's Zenith
- Deep Analysis
1. Drawn from Dreams is pretty much the best of the bunch for Combo/ Ramp shells
2. Pull from Eternity could be used as a discard outlet (X=0) on turn 2. Blue Sun's Zenith has combo potential with infinite mana sink. But both cards play the Blue Sun's Zenith role very nicely.
3. Deep Analysis provides insane raw card advantage and it has incredible synergy with discard effects.
The problem I have with a card like this is its theoretically good in everything, but only borderline playable in any of these blue shells.
Especially with the power creep, I feel cards really need to good in a minimum of 2 shells before considering.
* I cubed with all 4 of those cards before and they are fantastic. Its just unfortunate I do not have room for them anyone. Pull from Eternity is the most likely of the 4 to return.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I'm unsure how good it will be though, but it could be worth testing.
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I'm testing this over compulsive research, which has just felt meh for a few years now.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
For eternal formats, I sometimes take the draw for Control mirrors and went +1 Spell Pierce in my sideboard and went -1 for Grindy finisher.
I personally would opt for these cards over this:
- Ancestral Visions
- Fact or Fiction
- Mystic Confluence/ Jace's Ingenuity - 5 mana instant speed 3 for 1.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Interesting that your group FoF in that because in my experience it's most common mode is taking 2 out of 5. Which is why this garnered some attention. You're getting the 2 best of 1 less card which is reasonably close to FoF. I haven't tested it because I've barely cubed since the new set but I'd definitely try it before Jace's Ingenuity I think. I don't expect this to make my list but it's pretty close to FoF against an opponent playing optimally.
I think the synergy with Uro, Liliana of the Veil, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Dack Fayden, Dig Through Time etc. more than makes up for it.
There are quite a few cards I would consider prior to this Thirst for Knowledge, Impulse, Champion of Wits,Narset Transcendent, Suspicious Stowaway.
My problem with a card like this again is I don't feel its really particularly strong anywhere and doesn't really fill any role
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
As for the other cards you listed they're just very different cards. This is a brute force card advantage engine. Apart from the discard 1 mode of thirst those are all card selection cards. Well and Narset but she's gold and competes in a very different group as a result. One thing I've noticed in my cube is that blue actually has very little burst draw at the moment. I have Ancestral, Twister, Time Spiral, FoF, Jace TMS, Mulldrifter, and Mystic Confluence (though it is usually used as a bounce and counter). The Twist spells barely count for this exercise and Ancestral is among the slam dunkiest of slam dunks and as a result I've noticed that blue decks can end up a little light on card draw and had been considering this to supplement my actual card advantage spells. I don't think it's quite good enough but I don't think it's far off either. I've been toying with trying it out over on of the mind control effects as an experiment because it's just so sweet in standard. Thirst, Impulse, Champion, and Stowaway are great card selection cards but they just don't give that boost of cards in hand that I sometimes want.
But then again, I find your list doesn't have Cruise, Dig, Uro, Welder, Wreen etc.
I got a few questions about your list:
- Why Thassa's Oracle without the Inverter half of the combo?
- How is Outpost Siege?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Yeah we don't have a huge excess of cards that want a critical mass in your graveyard. We have a lot of twists and the decks that do care about the graveyard either already have their exile spell in Breach or want it to stick around in the case of Stax. My cube is in a very weird spot right now where it's just kind of the archetypes I personally enjoy.
Oracle is my primary storm win condition these days. It takes Underworld Breach decks to another level and gets around Eldrazi saving opponents from brain freeze.
Outpost siege is pretty mediocre. It's a pet card of mine but it's time is running out. It's a survivor of the days of midrange goodstuff being the best deck and it was pretty sweet in that window of time. Just haven't brought myself to cut it yet but once I finally cut Burning and Wildfire it's next on the chopping block. Edit: Siege was primarily used as a grindy card advantage engine but the Aristrocrats mode was definitely used a non zero amount of times to close out the last few points of damage.
With the mono color Manlands, Adversary cycle, BFZ lands, X spells/ kick, escape etc, eternalize etc. I just don't see us running out of things to do and needing these type of spells. I think efficiency is key.
On the other hand, I would opt for a planeswalker for control decks or 1-2 CMC draw spells for combo decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i