Assuming I didn't miss anything, this has 12 misses for me:
- 9 actual creatures
- Mutavault
- Angel tokens generated by Serra / Starnheim Unleashed.
Last time I analyzed Go for the Throat / Heartless Act, they had about 35 misses each (counted tokens and things that put +1/+1 counters on things). From a pure numbers perspective, this is probably the best of the bunch, but this also misses a lot of the biggest creatures. Missing on the big creatures actually might be a feature that I like to give the flashy angels / dragons / demons some breathing room.
This is probably the best Terror variant unless you're packing a ton of dragons / angels / demons based on number of misses alone. Crazy to see Go for the Throat have so much competition now, not to mention Baleful Mastery.
There are a lot of creature erratas over the years and most cubes are filled with promo / foreign cards. This is going to be a nightmare to keep track of.
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If you play any of the 2cc Terror variants still, this is very likely the best one. Unless your cube is especially heavy in one or more of those tribes, that is. But I agree with Breathe1234 that I dislike this kind of design.
If you play any of the 2cc Terror variants still, this is very likely the best one. Unless your cube is especially heavy in one or more of those tribes, that is. But I agree with Breathe1234 that I dislike this kind of design.
I like the intention of the Angel, Dragon and Demon clause. I think its important it a 2 CMC black terror variant needs some drawback. I will likely create a reference card to go with the card that lists all the cards with the creature type.
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If you play any of the 2cc Terror variants still, this is very likely the best one. Unless your cube is especially heavy in one or more of those tribes, that is. But I agree with Breathe1234 that I dislike this kind of design.
I like the intention of the Angel, Dragon and Demon clause. I think its important it a 2 CMC black terror variant needs some drawback. I will likely create a reference card to go with the card that lists all the cards with the creature type.
People don't know an Angel when they see it? Or don't know Griselbrand is a Demon? I think using a reference card is way too much hassle for something players should know anyhow. And if they do'nt they will learn.
Whoops, this isn't MH2, it's the D&D inspired set coming up! Title fixed.
Also, I just checked and my cube has no cards where the type line has been errataed to one of these relevant types that doesn't say it on the card. I'd say the most common fail case will be people killing mutavault with it, which is certainly annoying, but no more so than people forgetting lords effect mutavault or forgetting nekrataal is a human, etc. Additionally, most angel/demon/dragon/devil arts are pretty good at showing the creature type, so even foreign or promo cards shouldn't be too much of an issue.
I can't imagine having more of a problem with this card than with any other card that cares about creature types TBH - tribal lords, selective wraths, etc. Glorybringer has a similar clause, as does resto angel.
Yeah, the most of the creature type errata has to do with humans on older cards. I don't see errata being much an issue for this card since demons / angels / dragons are pretty obvious. Devils not so much, but Hellrider and Rakdos Cackler are really the only commonly played ones.
These iconic creature types don’t have errata usually, but the most used cube card of these I think is the Urze’s Saga Karmic Guide, which is labeled as Spirit.
I still have Heartless act but perhaps will stick with it as I want to have removal for the high impact ones. Plus I really hate the arbitrariness of the design.
I like a good Terror variant as much as the next robot, but there's been so many of them printed in the past year that this isn't the least bit exciting. As for the card's design, I would've been able to stomach it, but the non-Devil clause irks me to no end.
While this is clearly the best Terror variant by the numbers, the creatures this can’t hit are a pretty big deal. Baneslayer and Lyra in particular are the exact creatures you want to be hitting with this type of spell.
We might just not mess with this and stay away from all Terrors moving forward.
Are people not running Doom Blade variants anymore? If so I feel really out of it. I'm currently running Heartless Act, Go For The Throat and Doom Blade (plus Baleful Mastery) as instant kill spells at 540 powered. This replaces Doom Blade easily for me.
For those who have significantly cut down on these 2 mana kill spells what does your black removal suite look like?
I'm running Feed The Swarm and Bloodchief's Thirst as sorcery speed removal that costs 2 or less plus Hero's Downfall and 2 edict effects.
Not trying to threadjack but based on the above comment I want to ensure I'm not missing anything.
I haven't cubed any Terror variants in quite some time. All my black removal can either be played for 1 mana or less, can destroy multiple permanent types, or comes attached to a body to generate card advantage. Too many 3+cc creatures pass the removal test nowadays, and now the majority of the last "clean" answerable threats cost 2 mana. So I want my removal to either cost less or do more. Just my $0.02.
I never expect my Doom Blade variants to trade in parity with the opponent in terms of card advantage or even tempo most of the time out of a control/ midrange deck.
Sure you might get a Doom Blade for Baneslayer Angel/ Thundermaw Hellkite, but what I feel is more important is that you are "trading" with the opponent. I find control deck s could easily bury the opponent in card advantage with cards like Deep Analysis or Fact or Fiction, but cannot cast them in time.
I also find these removal spells are also incredibly important in tempo/ aggro decks to clear the way for your Rabblemaster/ Hero of Bladehold Variants. (Hence why I still play Roast, despite is incredibly poor stats. Bad Card? Yes. Necessary for Rabble red? Prob.)
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I don't fault folks for using Doom Blades, they're still very solid. Those were just our observations, and the reasons why we've migrated our black removal package in a different direction.
I personally would love to have more Dismember, Hero's Downfall and Baleful Mastery, if another one of these cards are printed, I probably will cut Heartless Act.
For my card evaluations, I'm much more keen on tempo than card advantage - I've advocated no 3 CMC red burn, no 2-3 CMC green ramp (outside of Rofellos).
This might be a bit off topic but Slaughter Pact is also incredibly good, both for the aggressive deck to push damage + control deck protecting from planeswalker/ occasionally getting lucky off a sneak attack.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
While true, there's so many great removal options in black now that I can use removal that meets the criteria I'm looking for and still have more than enough options (with even more good ones in my on-deck binder) for my builds without the Terrors. Again, YMMV, but that configuration's been working great for us.
Not sure I understand what ties Demons, Dragons, Angels & Devils together? "Batching effects" are the latest piece of R&D Tech that gets MaRo's nipples hard, so we'll be seeing more of this. Clever they may be, but they're also very clunky-feeling and this one is no different. It is pretty strong though--not sure I see much daylight between this and a completely unrestricted version of it. They're nearly the same card. Why not just print that card?
Not sure I understand what ties Demons, Dragons, Angels & Devils together? "Batching effects" are the latest piece of R&D Tech that gets MaRo's nipples hard, so we'll be seeing more of this. Clever they may be, but they're also very clunky-feeling and this one is no different. It is pretty strong though--not sure I see much daylight between this and a completely unrestricted version of it. They're nearly the same card. Why not just print that card?
Plan of the New Phyrexians?
I do agree black 2 CMC removal should be strictly worse than Terminate.
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I have no problem with this type of design aside from the fact that it isn't interesting. I still run ultimate price. Comparison there is this hits 156 targets, and price only hits 144. 12 hit difference. Marginally better.
The interesting thing is many of the targets this misses are in white. If you aren't playing against the white player this is probably way better instead of just marginally better. If it is against the white player, then this gets a lot worse.
The upside is that this hits colorless. I still haven't added Baleful Mastery so I'll probably be making that swap instead of this.
Not sure I understand what ties Demons, Dragons, Angels & Devils together? "Batching effects" are the latest piece of R&D Tech that gets MaRo's nipples hard, so we'll be seeing more of this. Clever they may be, but they're also very clunky-feeling and this one is no different. It is pretty strong though--not sure I see much daylight between this and a completely unrestricted version of it. They're nearly the same card. Why not just print that card?
Plan of the New Phyrexians?
I do agree black 2 CMC removal should be strictly worse than Terminate.
It's in the D&D inspired set, and it's a reference to the D&D spell, which can kill any lesser creature immediately (any creature with 100hp or less, the spell has no impact on anything with 101hp or more). I assume that design felt these 4 creature types were the most representative of powerful creatures within the "classic fantasy" creature types in magic.
Yeah pretty clear that these will be the 4 iconic races for the set, it’s a normal flavor based restriction. Cf Victim of Night.
The one type that probably looks weird to mtg players is Devil —- historically in magic IP devils are like, smaller weaker demons. In D&D, devils are lawful evil whereas demons are chaotic evil —- and there are fewer devils, but they’re actually more powerful on average. So for this set Devil will likely be the black iconic race that gets griselbrand kind of cards whereas demons are red.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I have also started to dislike doom blade variants, the only ones I have remaining (not including Baleful Mastery because it’s so, so, so much better) is GFTT. And that won’t be around forever. As tight as this design is, the feel-bad of not hitting their Wurmcoil is much lower than not hitting their Baneslayer, imo. I don’t appreciate how many top-end threats this has a blindspot for. What are kills spells for?
Instant 1B
Destroy target non-Angel, non-Demon, non-Devil, non-Dragon creature.
Interesting terror variant.
12 targets it doesn't hit in my cube (albeit some you really wanna kill), which is less than both GFFT and the legendary one.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
- 9 actual creatures
- Mutavault
- Angel tokens generated by Serra / Starnheim Unleashed.
Last time I analyzed Go for the Throat / Heartless Act, they had about 35 misses each (counted tokens and things that put +1/+1 counters on things). From a pure numbers perspective, this is probably the best of the bunch, but this also misses a lot of the biggest creatures. Missing on the big creatures actually might be a feature that I like to give the flashy angels / dragons / demons some breathing room.
This is probably the best Terror variant unless you're packing a ton of dragons / angels / demons based on number of misses alone. Crazy to see Go for the Throat have so much competition now, not to mention Baleful Mastery.
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There are a lot of creature erratas over the years and most cubes are filled with promo / foreign cards. This is going to be a nightmare to keep track of.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I like the intention of the Angel, Dragon and Demon clause. I think its important it a 2 CMC black terror variant needs some drawback. I will likely create a reference card to go with the card that lists all the cards with the creature type.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
People don't know an Angel when they see it? Or don't know Griselbrand is a Demon? I think using a reference card is way too much hassle for something players should know anyhow. And if they do'nt they will learn.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Also, I just checked and my cube has no cards where the type line has been errataed to one of these relevant types that doesn't say it on the card. I'd say the most common fail case will be people killing mutavault with it, which is certainly annoying, but no more so than people forgetting lords effect mutavault or forgetting nekrataal is a human, etc. Additionally, most angel/demon/dragon/devil arts are pretty good at showing the creature type, so even foreign or promo cards shouldn't be too much of an issue.
I can't imagine having more of a problem with this card than with any other card that cares about creature types TBH - tribal lords, selective wraths, etc. Glorybringer has a similar clause, as does resto angel.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I still have Heartless act but perhaps will stick with it as I want to have removal for the high impact ones. Plus I really hate the arbitrariness of the design.
540 Version: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/zza
We might just not mess with this and stay away from all Terrors moving forward.
For those who have significantly cut down on these 2 mana kill spells what does your black removal suite look like?
I'm running Feed The Swarm and Bloodchief's Thirst as sorcery speed removal that costs 2 or less plus Hero's Downfall and 2 edict effects.
Not trying to threadjack but based on the above comment I want to ensure I'm not missing anything.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Sure you might get a Doom Blade for Baneslayer Angel/ Thundermaw Hellkite, but what I feel is more important is that you are "trading" with the opponent. I find control deck s could easily bury the opponent in card advantage with cards like Deep Analysis or Fact or Fiction, but cannot cast them in time.
I also find these removal spells are also incredibly important in tempo/ aggro decks to clear the way for your Rabblemaster/ Hero of Bladehold Variants. (Hence why I still play Roast, despite is incredibly poor stats. Bad Card? Yes. Necessary for Rabble red? Prob.)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
For my card evaluations, I'm much more keen on tempo than card advantage - I've advocated no 3 CMC red burn, no 2-3 CMC green ramp (outside of Rofellos).
This might be a bit off topic but Slaughter Pact is also incredibly good, both for the aggressive deck to push damage + control deck protecting from planeswalker/ occasionally getting lucky off a sneak attack.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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Plan of the New Phyrexians?
I do agree black 2 CMC removal should be strictly worse than Terminate.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The interesting thing is many of the targets this misses are in white. If you aren't playing against the white player this is probably way better instead of just marginally better. If it is against the white player, then this gets a lot worse.
The upside is that this hits colorless. I still haven't added Baleful Mastery so I'll probably be making that swap instead of this.
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It's in the D&D inspired set, and it's a reference to the D&D spell, which can kill any lesser creature immediately (any creature with 100hp or less, the spell has no impact on anything with 101hp or more). I assume that design felt these 4 creature types were the most representative of powerful creatures within the "classic fantasy" creature types in magic.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
The one type that probably looks weird to mtg players is Devil —- historically in magic IP devils are like, smaller weaker demons. In D&D, devils are lawful evil whereas demons are chaotic evil —- and there are fewer devils, but they’re actually more powerful on average. So for this set Devil will likely be the black iconic race that gets griselbrand kind of cards whereas demons are red.
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I would rank this one just below GFTT so it is a miss for me.