This does a lot of cool stuff. Another engine for the Narset/Leovold plan, another playable for flash decks, backdoor goodies for the artifact.dec, randomly useful in ramp, and maybe more importantly right now, it's a cool answer to the Monarch. I might test this out if I can find room for it.
I just realized this is also pretty hilarious with Wheel of Misfortune. Do you want me to discard and have seven new cards, or do you want to pay a chunk of life to discard your hand and give me seven treasure tokens?
Really really sweet in cubes that don't support agro much.
I love that you can do it in response to loot type effects so it has a gotcha effect that narset doesn't.
Unsure about it in cubes that have a healthy agro support.
Blue is just soooooooo tight and a 3/2 flash for 3 is so bad in matchups where the draw clause doesn't come in effect. Perhaps the additional redundancy for the narset/draw 7 interaction is worth it though. Definitely gonna test.
@lucidvision fwiw, I feel like this card is better against aggro than most of my other blue 3s (low bar ), just by virtue of being able to function as a removal spell if you're desperate to pick off a rabblemaster or something
@lucidvision fwiw, I feel like this card is better against aggro than most of my other blue 3s (low bar ), just by virtue of being able to function as a removal spell if you're desperate to pick off a rabblemaster or something
Meh, I mean, it trades with most 1 drops.. Rabblemaster still gets a token and any instant speed shock would prevent it from blocking.
At least the non-interactive other 3 drops can draw to a wrath or a haymaker that may stabilize. But you make a fair point that it's not much worse (if at all) than some other good blue cards in agro matchups.
It's also quite bad against some combo/ramp decks. (though quite good against some as well)
This card is worded very differently from Leovold or Narset.
Leovold and Narset each say "each opponent can't draw more than one card each turn".
That's very clear.
In contrast, a reasonable interpretation of "if an opponent would draw a card except for the first one they draw in each of their draw steps" is that the effect only applies to extra cards that would be drawn during an opponent's draw step.
If that's the case, this does nothing for Wheel of Fortune type effects.
Going to wait for clarification on the confusing wording and why they chose to word it like that.
EDIT: I guess this is the same wording as Notion Thief, and works the same way people expect.
I do hate this wording but this is a great card. I think it's stronger in constructed (legacy) and EDH but probably still at 540+ or even 450+ cube card. I don't think it will crack my 360 list but I'll keep an eye on it.
It’s interesting how high people are on this card. Is it primarily exciting because of storm, or should non-storm cubes try it? Note that I still have the wheels.
It’s interesting how high people are on this card. Is it primarily exciting because of storm, or should non-storm cubes try it? Note that I still have the wheels.
Even without storm / draw 7s, there's so many hits. My cube has 70+ cards that draws a card, and 3/2 flash is a very reasonable floor that can act as a combat trick that trades with most things.
One thing to note with Hullbreacher's interaction with Arcane Denial. The controller of the countered spell chooses the number of cards they draw upon the resolution of that triggered ability. So if you control Hullbreacher and counter your opponent's spell with Arcane Denial, you should make zero treasure tokens assuming your opponent is playing optimally and chooses to draw 0 cards.
On the other hand, if you control Hullbreacher and your opponent counters your spell with Arcane Denial, Hullbreacher would deny their draw and you would still draw 2 cards. Still a good interaction to have on either side as long as you have Hullbreacher, it just might not work as intended as people first thought.
Correct. Denial is a may, so it's not as punishing as some other effects.
It still turns Denial into 1U: Counter target spell. Draw a card next turn. I.e., the best counterspell in the cube. So yes, not quite as punishing as a wheel or Dack, but still a very good interaction in my book. I'm already playing Arcane Denial, but I think people who are not should reconsider if they are playing Narset and Hullbreacher (and potentially Leovold).
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I find Arcane Denial gets a bad rap for being so much worse than Mana Drain, Mana Leak, Counterspell, and Remand. But what people forget is all 4 of those cards are probably ranked somewhere in the top 50 Vintage Cube Cards.
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I was definitely too low on this card - thought it would be decent but now I'm convinced it even cracks the smallest lists at 360.
Hullbreacher is soooo much better in that format. People are consistently doing the most broken thing and in that format the most broken thing is, quickly spamming out mana rocks and draw 7's. When you can consistently GET draw 7's in your deck and prevent draw 7's, hullbreachers stock goes through the moon. That's not at all how normal cube plays out...
Though... I do still believe it's a great card.
Thieving skydiver was very clearly the nuts from beginning from anyone who has played with dack fayden and know how much of a swing stealing a mana rock can be. Better than hullbreacher in a normal cube for sure.
HAd a great first show yesterday against me. I am a reanimator deck and have Dack Fayden in play. He responds to my +1 with Hullbreacher... On top of that my fatties were Consacrated Sphinx and Combustible Gearhul (a slighytly unususal fatty that keep performing for us).
He seems to shut down a lot of cards. Very promising start here.
What do people think of this card in a non-powered not-combo-focused cube? I'm not sure there are enough draw effects outside of blue mirrors to make it worth running. There are only about a dozen things that draw cards that aren't blue in my cube.
Seems like a decent blue tempo card, as well as fitting in the Narset/wheels deck?
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I didn't catch this until you pointed it out. It's not the "except the first card each turn" wording like on Narset, it's actually better.
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I love that you can do it in response to loot type effects so it has a gotcha effect that narset doesn't.
Unsure about it in cubes that have a healthy agro support.
Blue is just soooooooo tight and a 3/2 flash for 3 is so bad in matchups where the draw clause doesn't come in effect. Perhaps the additional redundancy for the narset/draw 7 interaction is worth it though. Definitely gonna test.
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Meh, I mean, it trades with most 1 drops.. Rabblemaster still gets a token and any instant speed shock would prevent it from blocking.
At least the non-interactive other 3 drops can draw to a wrath or a haymaker that may stabilize. But you make a fair point that it's not much worse (if at all) than some other good blue cards in agro matchups.
It's also quite bad against some combo/ramp decks. (though quite good against some as well)
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Yes, and it'll be extra valuable in decks that want to use the mana immediately, like Storm.
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Leovold and Narset each say "each opponent can't draw more than one card each turn".
That's very clear.
In contrast, a reasonable interpretation of "if an opponent would draw a card except for the first one they draw in each of their draw steps" is that the effect only applies to extra cards that would be drawn during an opponent's draw step.
If that's the case, this does nothing for Wheel of Fortune type effects.
Going to wait for clarification on the confusing wording and why they chose to word it like that.
EDIT: I guess this is the same wording as Notion Thief, and works the same way people expect.
I do hate this wording but this is a great card. I think it's stronger in constructed (legacy) and EDH but probably still at 540+ or even 450+ cube card. I don't think it will crack my 360 list but I'll keep an eye on it.
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Even without storm / draw 7s, there's so many hits. My cube has 70+ cards that draws a card, and 3/2 flash is a very reasonable floor that can act as a combat trick that trades with most things.
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On the other hand, if you control Hullbreacher and your opponent counters your spell with Arcane Denial, Hullbreacher would deny their draw and you would still draw 2 cards. Still a good interaction to have on either side as long as you have Hullbreacher, it just might not work as intended as people first thought.
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Dack Fayden works though; his {+1} becomes: Make 2 Treasures, your opponent discards 2 cards.
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It still turns Denial into 1U: Counter target spell. Draw a card next turn. I.e., the best counterspell in the cube. So yes, not quite as punishing as a wheel or Dack, but still a very good interaction in my book. I'm already playing Arcane Denial, but I think people who are not should reconsider if they are playing Narset and Hullbreacher (and potentially Leovold).
I was definitely too low on this card - thought it would be decent but now I'm convinced it even cracks the smallest lists at 360.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
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https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
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https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
I find Arcane Denial gets a bad rap for being so much worse than Mana Drain, Mana Leak, Counterspell, and Remand. But what people forget is all 4 of those cards are probably ranked somewhere in the top 50 Vintage Cube Cards.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
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Hullbreacher is soooo much better in that format. People are consistently doing the most broken thing and in that format the most broken thing is, quickly spamming out mana rocks and draw 7's. When you can consistently GET draw 7's in your deck and prevent draw 7's, hullbreachers stock goes through the moon. That's not at all how normal cube plays out...
Though... I do still believe it's a great card.
Thieving skydiver was very clearly the nuts from beginning from anyone who has played with dack fayden and know how much of a swing stealing a mana rock can be. Better than hullbreacher in a normal cube for sure.
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He seems to shut down a lot of cards. Very promising start here.
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