MTG Salvation

Quote from ryansaxe »

The only point of my calculations was to demonstrate the magnitude of difference access 100% of the time means. If you think the card is actually bad (I don't) then yeah it doesn't matter. But given that I would cube the card in a heartbeat without it in my opening hand, the 100% access makes it seem absurd to me.

Yeah it's quick napkin math, but I think it properly demonstrated my point.

Not sure how you conclude you would cube the card "in a heartbeat" w/o Companion since Dualcaster Mage already exists and can hit opposing spells (important..) and can be blinked for reuse (not as important but notable). Granted this has the upside of 3 power.

Hell, a Grizzly Bears with this companion clause would be an absolute slam dunk.

So a hybrid-colored 3-power 3 drop with flash that copies your spells? Not even close to being a question.

It doesn't really matter what the card does. It's this specific companion clause that makes the card amazing. And when the card is of an even remotely defensible powerlevel? It pushes it from great to broken.

I disagree with ryansaxe about cubing this without companion though. I would not include this in my cube if it wasn't for ...the thing that actually makes it broken.

I think Ryansake was saying they'd cube this card if it was exactly the same except instead of companion it had ETB draw a card - so 3/2 flash etb fork and draw a card (as a comparison for people underrating it because the companion is basically always better than the draw a card). I think I'd probably cube that.

Oh, I must've misunderstood that. Yes, if it had "etb: draw a card" I would play that for sure. And that would still be far, far worse than this actually is.

Yeah I was saying it would get ETB draw a card. I would cube it in a heartbeat. And I wanted to show that it’s approximately 2.5 times better than that card via abstract napkin math lol. Sounds like we’re on the same page, wtwlf123

I’m sorry if this has already been covered... But is the companion hidden in a sideboard, or is the card face-up / known information for your opponent?

Quote from Patrunkenphat7 »

I’m sorry if this has already been covered... But is the companion hidden in a sideboard, or is the card face-up / known information for your opponent?

From the Ikoria mechanics article on DailyMTG:

Just before the game begins, reveal your chosen companion to all players. Once during the game, you may cast your chosen companion from your sideboard.

Here's the full article. There's a few videos embedded as well that help with understanding these crazy new mechanics.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ikoria-lair-behemoths-mechanics-2020-04-02

Awesome thanks!

I think it is important to note that this card gets better the worse your deck/draw is. For great draws in especially powered cubes, it may do nothing in some games because there was enough more powerful stuff to spend mana on. Imho it is insane in terms of insurance, not in raw power level. Which would be true for about every creature/useful spell in CMC3/4 and less with that companion clause.

Will try this, but my worry about this card is that it could be annoyingly consistent. It benefits red more than blue given the consistency benefit and proactive copy ability.

The only thing that really pisses me off about this card is that it totally spoils Wtwlf123’s #1 pick in the next Top 20.

Not sure if I'd go so far as to say a grizzly bear with this companion clause would make it into my cube. A grizzly bear with companion even as a free 8th card still has the opportunity cost associated with drafting it over another card and its not ever going to be a tempo swinging play in the same way that Lutri is.

Lutri unlike a vanilla card with companion is card advantage on top of card advantage in that he can double spells as he resolves as well. Add in the flexibility of his hybrid cost, the utility of flash (even if forecasted), and the general shallowness of the Izzet guild and you've got a cube staple.

Quote from SaucyFaucet »

The only thing that really pisses me off about this card is that it totally spoils Wtwlf123’s #1 pick in the next Top 20.

You'll have to read it and see!

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/817096-set-p-review-my-top-20-ikoria-lair-of-behemoths

(J/K, this card totally spoils my #1 pick for my top 20 article)

Yeah, companion is a silly rule and this card will not be going in my cube. It's not even magic really to get a free card basically that's not part of your deck. Will happily pass on shenanigans like this!

New Companion Rule:

Once per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.

So is this still cubable? I’m thinking not anymore.

Quote from JinxedIdol »

So is this still cubable? I’m thinking not anymore.

Why wouldn't it be? it's still a free 8th card, even if the card is substantially worse. There will be games where you're flooding out, and in those games you'll be happy to have spent a pick on it during the draft (though it might not be first-pick material any more).

I think Lutri was one of the weakest companions when actually cast. This hurts him a lot, but yeah It’s still starting with 8 cards in hand

Quote from JinxedIdol »

New Companion Rule:

Once per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.

So is this still cubable? I’m thinking not anymore.

I think it's still worth a slot.. but it's SO much worse.

In singleton cubes, there's no opportunity cost including this card in your deck.. However, there IS an opportunity cost of including this card in your CUBE over another interesting card.

Yes, it's still great. It still gives you the ability to draw an extra card during the game, and with no opportunity cost ...that's still fantastic.

I think i might be off this now. I'm super frustrated right now so it might be making me not want to include this mechanic. maybe in time when it isnt as ridiculous I might still look at it.

Gold slots seem to precious for incorrect rules text of this magnitude.

As I've just mentioned on the Lurrus thread, I'll just be playing these as written (I'll only be running the 2 anyway).

No more incorrect rules text.

I'm a bit surprised how underplayed this is considering the companion cost is essentially free.

It might be free in terms of deck construction but it does take up a cube guild slot; the most valuable commodity on earth.

It's a cool card but it has generally been a bit lack-luster. With so many options I kinda want my guild cards to be spicy, Lutri is solid value but not exactly the most exciting card.

FTIW I play the card as written.

It's still great over here.

Should be mentioned that I've seen people not play companions at all just because they fundamentally don't like the mechanic, because power level wise Lutri is really really good, probably the best or second best izzet card.

It's obviously really good in red or blue decks, but when it's not copying a Time Walk or Fireblast or whatnot it's probably at its most silly in green with Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman. Always having a creature to pitch for in the mid or late game is just so unbelievably broken.

I think this card is worse than it looks, but it looks super broken so the fact that it's "just" arguably our best izzet card is pretty solid. I doubt it's going anywhere for us anytime soon.