We already have Finale of Promise officially spoiled, but it looks like the other 4 cards of the cycle have been leaked! They're very splashy big spells. Translations are rough:
Final of Revelation
XUU
Sorcery
Draw X cards. If X is 10 or more, instead shuffle your graveyard into your library, draw X cards, untap up to five lands and you have no maximum hand size for the rest of the game. Exile Finale of Revelation.
Finale of Glory
XWW
Sorcery
Create X 2/2 soldier tokens with vigilance. If X is 10 or more, also make X 4/4 angel tokens with flying and vigilance.
Finale of Devastation
XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it on the battlefield. If X is 10 or more, your creatures gain haste and +X/+X until end of turn.
Finale of Eternity
XBB
Sorcery
Destroy up to 3 target creatures with toughness X or less. If X is 10 or more, also return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
I am most interested in the Finale of Devastation, it compares well to Green Sun's Zenith. 1 mana more allows you to search for any colour creature, and also search your graveyard as well! I guess if you hit 12 mana, searching for a Craterhoof Behemoth will deal insane damage to your opponent.
Green finale is interesting. I don't know if 1GG is as worthwhile for a mana dork as 1G is with GSZ, but I imagine 2GG is still worth it for Rofellos and there's not much difference when paying 1 more for something big.
Finale of Devastation looks good. Compared to GSZ, this costs 1 more, but it can target your graveyard as well as your library, and it's not restricted to green creatures. And the 10+ clause pretty much ends the game on the spot no matter what you get.
Finale of Glory is pretty good too. I mean, at any value X=2 or more, you're getting a pretty good return on your power/mana ratio, and all the tokens have vigilance. Decent.
I suspect those will respectively be too unreliable or inefficient, and White will have the only unembarrassing (albeit unexciting) Average-Case Scenario.
The white one is pretty solid and scales very well since you're getting 2 power for every X mana. The green one has potential since getting rid of the color restriction means more ways to find Palace Jailer. Being able to recur things from the graveyard is also really nice.
The green one has potential since getting rid of the color restriction means more ways to find Palace Jailer.
Getting Palace Jailer specifically is actually very real upside! But yeah the green and white effects are the ones that intrigue me the most. I like Secure the Wastes more than the white one, although running both isn't out of the question. The green one to me seems pretty reasonable - trading one green mana off GSZ for the ability to get any color creature from your library or graveyard is a pretty big deal. I think this is better than Chord, but Chord was never that good for us so we'll have to see how this one does in testing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I don't think it'll be very good in a heavy green ramp shell that can't find a way to hit 10+ mana.
The extra mana tacked onto GSZ is a big cost. It makes many creatures simply too ineffecient.
But, in a multi-colored creature toolbox shell, especially trying to combo with Kiki-Jiki, it should be pretty great.
It should also be pretty great in a deck that has ways of hitting the 12 mana mark... like Garruk Wildspeaker + Gaea's Cradle + Mirrari's wake.
It'll win the game on the spot with Channel if you get to GGGG, so that's another reason to run the card.
The green one Is the real deal. Getting any color and putting it on the battlefield is something I’m excited about. Now if you don’t play channel, big ramp, or creature combo kill it might not make it.
I really hate how much these borrow from the Zenith cycle....definitely feels like they were the baseline for all of these and they just made minor alterations in cost/effect to up the power level and dropped the shuffle into your library clause replacing it with some massively powerful effect if you cast this for a whopping 12 mana or more.
Only the red one is completely different. The black one has some notable differences as well but has some similarities to BSZ. The rest are nearly carbon copies if you disregard the generally unobtainable ultimate modes:
White just shaved off a colored mana symbol and added vigilance to the tokens.
Blue shaved off a colored mana symbol.
Green added a colored symbol, but also lets you pull the creature from your graveyard.
I think the White one has the best shot at being viable in cube. Many green decks are able to deal with the extra cost in order to pull a given creature from any zone except exile....remains to be seen if the flexibility will be worth the cost here. Could be.
I'm surprised people are so hype for the fact that the green one can pull from the yard. It seems like a very minor upside - you aren't cheating anything into play as you're paying the full CMC +2, so it's not like you're gonna entomb for this. I guess it's nice that you can pull some utility creatures back, or loop with eternal witness, but the GY part is about 5% of the card for me.
I'm surprised people are so hype for the fact that the green one can pull from the yard. It seems like a very minor upside - you aren't cheating anything into play as you're paying the full CMC +2, so it's not like you're gonna entomb for this. I guess it's nice that you can pull some utility creatures back, or loop with eternal witness, but the GY part is about 5% of the card for me.
I think it's more of the fact if your opponent thoughtseize's away the creature you want, or you had already ramped and cast it and it got killed, you now have the option of getting your best creature back instead of whatever is left in your deck. That's a pretty big upside to me.
The more I think about the white finale the more I like it. I feel like it’s pretty close to slam dunk level and fits in just about any deck that can produce white mana. It’s a fine card in aggro for turns 4 onward as a scalable curve topper and flood insurance piece. In midrange builds it’s costed efficiently enough to be impactful up the curve. It’s not a bad top end finisher for control decks either. Not to mention the token/aristocrats synergy that’s super obvious. Seems like an all around winner to me.
Green seems worse than Chord of Calling, +2 mana without convoke hurts. I still might give it a try over Zenith, not sure. But I'm not optimistic.
White is really solid. It's okay at 4 mana and very good at 5 or more.
Blue is just bad.
Red is probably too narrow, and loses the most by being sorcery speed.
Black is the most interesting. If you don't have a board, it's way worse than existing sweepers. But if you're playing something like midrange vs aggro, it can be exactly what you need to stabilize. I think that still ends up being worse than other options.
Everybody here seems to be saying that the white one is okay/serviceable at four mana, and I just don't agree. I would never include this in a W aggro deck because of how lackluster the ability is for 4cc. If you neeed to jam two blockers against aggro, fine, but outside of that I can't imagine wanting to cast the Call the Cavalry variant. So if I'm evaluating the card starting at 5cc, it's basically a top-end card. I think it's worse than all of the 5cc white threats that we don't include, and that the X casting cost here is making people not make that comparison. Casting it for X = 1 or 2 is emergency mode, and while it's nice that that mode exists, I don't think it bumps it from "card I would never consider" to "card I'm going to test".
Everybody here seems to be saying that the white one is okay/serviceable at four mana, and I just don't agree. I would never include this in a W aggro deck because of how lackluster the ability is for 4cc. If you neeed to jam two blockers against aggro, fine, but outside of that I can't imagine wanting to cast the Call the Cavalry variant. So if I'm evaluating the card starting at 5cc, it's basically a top-end card. I think it's worse than all of the 5cc white threats that we don't include, and that the X casting cost here is making people not make that comparison. Casting it for X = 1 or 2 is emergency mode, and while it's nice that that mode exists, I don't think it bumps it from "card I would never consider" to "card I'm going to test".
I hope I'm proven wrong. I just don't see it.
I wouldn't include this in my deck AS a 4-drop. But I can play it as one when my hand has a follow-up 5-drop Angel of Invention or something. All the good 4cc token making 4-drop creatures in the cube create 4 power and multiple bodies for 4 mana. So does this. Are those cards better? Of course they are. But those cards can't also be a 6-power threat for 5 mana. Or an 8-power threat for 6 mana. Or a 10-power threat for 7 mana.
The rate at which Finale of Glory puts power on the battlefield is comparable at each cost (4+ mana) as any of the token engines played in the cube. That's a positive quality for a scaleable effect to have. Typically, scaleable threats don't have the same P/T to mana ratio as cards with fixed costs. This card does. That is what interests me about the card. Is Pia and Kiran Nalaar a better 4cc token support card? Yes. But it's 4 power and multiple bodies for 4 mana (and so is this). Is Angel of Invention a better 5cc token support card? Yes. But it creates 6 power and multiple bodies for 5 mana, and so does this. Those individual cards are better, but this card can be used in every place on the curve.
The ceiling on this card is also absurd. It creates 60 power for 12 mana. Sixty. Which can be done on curve the turn after a Mirari's Wake with no other help (and in that case, it actually makes 80 power). I plan to see that happen at least once before I cut it.
And the tokens have vigilance, which is not nothing.
I don't know if the card's going to be good or not. But this looks like the Everflowing Chalice of token makers, and that's not a bad place to be. It has potential, if nothing else.
For what it's worth, I also wouldn't put this into a white aggro deck. But it's not a white aggro card, so that's kinda moot. This is a midrange card, a WG ramp card and a token.dec card. Not being playable as a 4cc card in aggro is not a hurdle I'd ask this to leap.
Anyways, that's just my $0.02. Card's not great. It's a decent filler option to medium- to large-sized cubes that want a token maker that scales efficiently. Nobody's suggesting playing it in a powered 360 cube or anything.
Having a ceiling for 12 mana is cool, but that's 12 mana. It's not going to happen often. The synergy with Wake is cool, so maybe that gives it a boost if you still play wake. As far as the statement on P/T ratio, all of the token makers we play make comparable power/toughness, but we only include them because they have awesome other abilities/applications, and because they can be abused because it's a creature that generates the tokens. I get that this cards equivalent of that is scalability, and maybe I'm underestimating that, but I just only see this getting cast for X=5 - X=7, and if it's mostly in this camp I'd rather play any of the other white top-end I don't currently play.
I look forward to your feedback once you test it, though!
You're right in that the other token makers are playable at their fixed costs because of the extra abilities they have. But this has an extra ability too; it can be cast in multiple spots on the curve. And just because I want to play this at CMC 5 or 7 doesn't mean it can't be a 4 when I'm missing one, or a 6 the turn before I drop Elesh Norn or something.
Again, card's not broken. Nobody's hyping it up to be the best white card ever. But we've never had a token maker that scales this efficiently, so I think I should see it in action before I write it off.
I came in the thread to poop on finale of glory, but wtwlf's post sold me that it has a solid niche application.
GW creature ramp decks.
I have never had success with fringe token spells in my cube IE Sram's Expertise, martial coup or secure the wastes, yet a fair number of people claim they were fine filler cards in their cube. Mirrari's wake style WG type ramp decks are so rare in my cube, but I could see this card excelling in those kinds of decks. So if they come together more in your cube, I can see the appeal to the card.
It would probably be a top 10-15 card in that style of deck, and has a fair bit of 23-26 playable applications in other decks.
I advocate supporting fringe decks with niche cards if your playgroup likes to draft those decks.
I also think it gets proportionally better in slower/unpowered cubes. It could be interesting in a modern cube that gives white a lot of anthems.
We already have Finale of Promise officially spoiled, but it looks like the other 4 cards of the cycle have been leaked! They're very splashy big spells. Translations are rough:
Final of Revelation
XUU
Sorcery
Draw X cards. If X is 10 or more, instead shuffle your graveyard into your library, draw X cards, untap up to five lands and you have no maximum hand size for the rest of the game. Exile Finale of Revelation.
Finale of Glory
XWW
Sorcery
Create X 2/2 soldier tokens with vigilance. If X is 10 or more, also make X 4/4 angel tokens with flying and vigilance.
Finale of Devastation
XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it on the battlefield. If X is 10 or more, your creatures gain haste and +X/+X until end of turn.
Finale of Eternity
XBB
Sorcery
Destroy up to 3 target creatures with toughness X or less. If X is 10 or more, also return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
[180 classic cube]
Finale of Glory is pretty good too. I mean, at any value X=2 or more, you're getting a pretty good return on your power/mana ratio, and all the tokens have vigilance. Decent.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I want Red to be awesome and Green to be somewhere between a second Tooth and Nail and second Green Sun’s Zenith.
I suspect those will respectively be too unreliable or inefficient, and White will have the only unembarrassing (albeit unexciting) Average-Case Scenario.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Getting Palace Jailer specifically is actually very real upside! But yeah the green and white effects are the ones that intrigue me the most. I like Secure the Wastes more than the white one, although running both isn't out of the question. The green one to me seems pretty reasonable - trading one green mana off GSZ for the ability to get any color creature from your library or graveyard is a pretty big deal. I think this is better than Chord, but Chord was never that good for us so we'll have to see how this one does in testing.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
I don't think it'll be very good in a heavy green ramp shell that can't find a way to hit 10+ mana.
The extra mana tacked onto GSZ is a big cost. It makes many creatures simply too ineffecient.
But, in a multi-colored creature toolbox shell, especially trying to combo with Kiki-Jiki, it should be pretty great.
It should also be pretty great in a deck that has ways of hitting the 12 mana mark... like Garruk Wildspeaker + Gaea's Cradle + Mirrari's wake.
It'll win the game on the spot with Channel if you get to GGGG, so that's another reason to run the card.
Don't like the others.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
No, I believe you get only one creature only, but the translation could be off.
Yeah, the and/or just means you can search both or either. The "a creature" clause is what matters, and that means 1.
What do people think of the green finale vs tooth and nail, if you had to run 1? 12 mana is a lot more than 9, but at 12 you get a huge effect.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Green Finale seems very nice and easily worth testing. Being able to pull from the GY adds so much functionality.
Only the red one is completely different. The black one has some notable differences as well but has some similarities to BSZ. The rest are nearly carbon copies if you disregard the generally unobtainable ultimate modes:
White just shaved off a colored mana symbol and added vigilance to the tokens.
Blue shaved off a colored mana symbol.
Green added a colored symbol, but also lets you pull the creature from your graveyard.
I think the White one has the best shot at being viable in cube. Many green decks are able to deal with the extra cost in order to pull a given creature from any zone except exile....remains to be seen if the flexibility will be worth the cost here. Could be.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I think it's more of the fact if your opponent thoughtseize's away the creature you want, or you had already ramped and cast it and it got killed, you now have the option of getting your best creature back instead of whatever is left in your deck. That's a pretty big upside to me.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
White is really solid. It's okay at 4 mana and very good at 5 or more.
Blue is just bad.
Red is probably too narrow, and loses the most by being sorcery speed.
Black is the most interesting. If you don't have a board, it's way worse than existing sweepers. But if you're playing something like midrange vs aggro, it can be exactly what you need to stabilize. I think that still ends up being worse than other options.
I hope I'm proven wrong. I just don't see it.
Social Media: Twitter, Twitch
MTG Articles: 200+ Articles on StarCityGames.com, MTG Draft AI Article
MTG AI Code: Limited Draft Bot, CubeCobra Recommender System
I wouldn't include this in my deck AS a 4-drop. But I can play it as one when my hand has a follow-up 5-drop Angel of Invention or something. All the good 4cc token making 4-drop creatures in the cube create 4 power and multiple bodies for 4 mana. So does this. Are those cards better? Of course they are. But those cards can't also be a 6-power threat for 5 mana. Or an 8-power threat for 6 mana. Or a 10-power threat for 7 mana.
The rate at which Finale of Glory puts power on the battlefield is comparable at each cost (4+ mana) as any of the token engines played in the cube. That's a positive quality for a scaleable effect to have. Typically, scaleable threats don't have the same P/T to mana ratio as cards with fixed costs. This card does. That is what interests me about the card. Is Pia and Kiran Nalaar a better 4cc token support card? Yes. But it's 4 power and multiple bodies for 4 mana (and so is this). Is Angel of Invention a better 5cc token support card? Yes. But it creates 6 power and multiple bodies for 5 mana, and so does this. Those individual cards are better, but this card can be used in every place on the curve.
The ceiling on this card is also absurd. It creates 60 power for 12 mana. Sixty. Which can be done on curve the turn after a Mirari's Wake with no other help (and in that case, it actually makes 80 power). I plan to see that happen at least once before I cut it.
And the tokens have vigilance, which is not nothing.
I don't know if the card's going to be good or not. But this looks like the Everflowing Chalice of token makers, and that's not a bad place to be. It has potential, if nothing else.
For what it's worth, I also wouldn't put this into a white aggro deck. But it's not a white aggro card, so that's kinda moot. This is a midrange card, a WG ramp card and a token.dec card. Not being playable as a 4cc card in aggro is not a hurdle I'd ask this to leap.
Anyways, that's just my $0.02. Card's not great. It's a decent filler option to medium- to large-sized cubes that want a token maker that scales efficiently. Nobody's suggesting playing it in a powered 360 cube or anything.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I look forward to your feedback once you test it, though!
Social Media: Twitter, Twitch
MTG Articles: 200+ Articles on StarCityGames.com, MTG Draft AI Article
MTG AI Code: Limited Draft Bot, CubeCobra Recommender System
Again, card's not broken. Nobody's hyping it up to be the best white card ever. But we've never had a token maker that scales this efficiently, so I think I should see it in action before I write it off.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
GW creature ramp decks.
I have never had success with fringe token spells in my cube IE Sram's Expertise, martial coup or secure the wastes, yet a fair number of people claim they were fine filler cards in their cube. Mirrari's wake style WG type ramp decks are so rare in my cube, but I could see this card excelling in those kinds of decks. So if they come together more in your cube, I can see the appeal to the card.
It would probably be a top 10-15 card in that style of deck, and has a fair bit of 23-26 playable applications in other decks.
I advocate supporting fringe decks with niche cards if your playgroup likes to draft those decks.
I also think it gets proportionally better in slower/unpowered cubes. It could be interesting in a modern cube that gives white a lot of anthems.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg