Strong stats and nice in Wildfire decks that can actually pay the kicker cost. Directly competes with Kalitas as 4-cmc stat monster, but I can find other cut to test it. Thoughts?
I'm excited by it. The base stats are strong for the cost, although it trades onboard nonsense of Kalitas for +1/+1 and menace, and has a backend that can potentially just end the game. I'm not sure what my cut for this will be, but it's definitely at least being tested.
EDIT: Also not irrelevant - the tokens don't come into play tapped, so they can play defense for a turn before swinging in.
What a sick card. Zombie synergies, 4/5 for 4 mana, late game applications and menace on the top of all, which is basically unblockable in many cube environments. Good card that might be too fair for powered cubes. Luckily I have an unpowered cube and this card going in there for sure.
Strong stats and nice in Wildfire decks that can actually pay the kicker cost. Directly competes with Kalitas as 4-cmc stat monster, but I can find other cuts to test it. Thoughts?
Powerful card that unfortunately requires a ramp deck that can make BBB to be good enough for a powered cube. Really wish the kicker was 6 instead of 5B. Makes it a more reasonable cast for tolarian academy/gae's cradle or channel.
Unfortunately anything but a ramp deck will basically never be able to make 10 mana... a 4/5 menace for 4 is only a desperation playable in non ramp decks.
Makes it a bit too narrow for my tastes.. If your cube group loves RB wildfire, or your cube actively supports it, I'd give this guy a test around 540 mark.
Powerful card that unfortunately requires a ramp deck that can make BBB to be good enough for a powered cube. Really wish the kicker was 6 instead of 5B. Makes it a more reasonable cast for tolarian academy/gae's cradle or channel.
Unfortunately anything but a ramp deck will basically never be able to make 10 mana... a 4/5 menace for 4 is only a desperation playable in non ramp decks.
Makes it a bit too narrow for my tastes.. If your cube group loves RB wildfire, or your cube actively supports it, I'd give this guy a test around 540 mark.
Yeah this is my thought, the ceiling is obviously good if you can reach it but 10 mana can still be a lot even for ramp decks, and I can't imagine I'm consistently happy casting this for 2BB in cube.
surprised with the hype on this as I'm not really interested in Josu at all. I don't think this is really even close to kalitas and my other black 4s all murder a creature when they hit the field for immediate impact or are called braids, cabal minion and arent going anywhere. I already have a 5/4 menace for 3 with plague belcher that swings for more damage at a cheaper rate and still has zombie synergy.
maybe thats too harsh. i dont run wildfire as an archetype so maybe then, but this guy is a 4/5 menace for 2BB almost every time which doesnt seem all that great compared to other options.
If there was a reasonable chance to kick this (say if the kicker was 3 and the effect was 3 2/2's) then I'd be interested. As is, no way. 7BBB is a lot.
I so desperately want another token spammer in black but this isn't quite it. I am all for modal stuff but 10 is just too much for a card that can't be cheated. I wish the kicker was sacrifice related.
A 4/5 menace for 4, which is what this will be the vast majority of the time, is not something I think enough decks want for me to put this in. And super ramp decks would much rather have something without BBB in the mana cost.
I love this card so much. I don't think it's good enough on its own merits, but the kinds of decks I play would adore having this around. In Wildfire decks, you can play it on-curve and it's a very good creature to cast with a Wildfire on deck. If you don't have the Wildfire effect to follow it up with, you can use your extra mana ramp to put 20 power worth of menace creatures on the table. Probably not there on powerlevel, but it looks like the kind of card that could be a future pet card. Also, Zombie Knight that makes other Zombie Knights.
Black super ramp isn't a thing, but Rakdos Wildfire is a thing that happens from time to time. The deck ramps with artifact mana, so with things like Worn Powerstone, Thran Dynamo, and Gilded Lotus you could certainly reach ten mana to kick this guy. While I share the same love for that deck that wtwlf does, I have to also agree with him that this cards, while it is pretty cool, probably just doesn't make it. It only really goes into that one deck since other black decks aren't really ramping.
I like the design of this card but I think it just isn't quite there for cube. Sort of wished you could get a few tokens without the quicker so it could play like a black deranged hermit.
- Serviceable in aggro / midrange (not ideal)
- Can do some work in a control shell, especially with scaleable sweepers
- Has good applications in Wildfire / Ramp decks
- Immune to most red removal spells (survives all burn unless stacked with more burn / combat damage)
- Immune to Nekrataal / Snuff Out / Shriekmaw / Cast Down
- 4/5 menace means it can tussle with most creatures and is difficult to block profitably
Trading menace for lifelink would've been huge, but that'd be too pushed since that's essentially a 4-mana exalted angel with all upside. The kicker cost not being so extravagant could've gone a long way also, that would've at least been reasonable. If I can find room I might test it for a bit, at least until I bury someone with zombies at least once.
- Serviceable in aggro / midrange (not ideal)
- Can do some work in a control shell, especially with scaleable sweepers
- Has good applications in Wildfire / Ramp decks
- Immune to most red removal spells (survives all burn unless stacked with more burn / combat damage)
- Immune to Nekrataal / Snuff Out / Shriekmaw / Cast Down
- 4/5 menace means it can tussle with most creatures and is difficult to block profitably
Trading menace for lifelink would've been huge, but that'd be too pushed since that's essentially a 4-mana exalted angel with all upside. The kicker cost not being so extravagant could've gone a long way also, that would've at least been reasonable. If I can find room I might test it for a bit, at least until I bury someone with zombies at least once.
Maybe I have a different intuitive understanding of what "serviceable" means... When I think of that word, I think of 22-25th playable in an archetype. Often missing main deck, but can see play in a deck a bit weaker than average and being only a little bit worse than the 23rd playable in a strong version of the deck.
My prediction is that, if there's a <1% chance his ability will be activated, Josu will be even a tier below that. Like, he's better than splashing for a 2 drop in another color, or an 18th land in a deck that wants 16.5 lands... But will never beat out a card that is remotely on theater.
I'm flip-flopping on it's playability too. I gotta say, looking at this as a 10-mana probably-win-the-game control card that also has an alright 4 mana mode makes me excited. I'd love to slowly make a blue/black bounce/flicker control deck possible, crystal shard and erratic portal + re-using the 4 Mana kill-creatures, venser, mulldrifter... This guy can be bounced there and become a wincon as soon as you get the mana. With that in mind, Karakas also helps him. This is me dreaming but nevertheless it excites me. I'm REALLY digging the 5 toughness. I don't think it would be possible to get a much better 4-mana form (exalted angel comparison is astute), but I wish the kicker was less color intensive. I'd slam it at 540 for some testing, but it probably doesn't make it for me at 420-450.
I'm flip-flopping on it's playability too. I gotta say, looking at this as a 10-mana probably-win-the-game control card that also has an alright 4 mana mode makes me excited. I'd love to slowly make a blue/black bounce/flicker control deck possible, crystal shard and erratic portal + re-using the 4 Mana kill-creatures, venser, mulldrifter... This guy can be bounced there and become a wincon as soon as you get the mana. With that in mind, Karakas also helps him. This is me dreaming but nevertheless it excites me. I'm REALLY digging the 5 toughness. I don't think it would be possible to get a much better 4-mana form (exalted angel comparison is astute), but I wish the kicker was less color intensive. I'd slam it at 540 for some testing, but it probably doesn't make it for me at 420-450.
Any spell for 10 should also probably win the game (Profane Command for example, and that card hasn't been in our cube in years).
Edit: I assume you know this, but you can't pay kicker on a "flicker" effect. But yes I suppose you could bounce him back to your hand and then re-cast.
Maybe I have a different intuitive understanding of what "serviceable" means... When I think of that word, I think of 22-25th playable in an archetype. Often missing main deck, but can see play in a deck a bit weaker than average and being only a little bit worse than the 23rd playable in a strong version of the deck.
My prediction is that, if there's a <1% chance his ability will be activated, Josu will be even a tier below that. Like, he's better than splashing for a 2 drop in another color, or an 18th land in a deck that wants 16.5 lands... But will never beat out a card that is remotely on theater.
Sorry, I want him to be good too
Yeah, it would be a true disaster if he ever made the MD of any of my aggro decks. I can't remember the last time I ever ended a draft and needed a 4 drop for my aggro deck.
Edit: I assume you know this, but you can't pay kicker on a "flicker" effect. But yes I suppose you could bounce him back to your hand and then re-cast.
I'm pretty sure this card isn't 360 material, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to play it anyway because it's awesome.
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I'm pretty sure this card isn't 360 material, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to play it anyway because it's awesome.
This is my feeling on the set as a whole. Normally when I only get 1-2 cube cards I think a set is garbagey or full of annoying parasitic mechanics. Dominaria is anything but.
Awesome for cube this set is not, but it is awesome nevertheless. Actually went in on a box of this on nostalgia and despite a seemingly low to mediocre power level overall I'm not disappointed in my choice.
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Strong stats and nice in Wildfire decks that can actually pay the kicker cost. Directly competes with Kalitas as 4-cmc stat monster, but I can find other cut to test it. Thoughts?
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EDIT: Also not irrelevant - the tokens don't come into play tapped, so they can play defense for a turn before swinging in.
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Powerful card that unfortunately requires a ramp deck that can make BBB to be good enough for a powered cube. Really wish the kicker was 6 instead of 5B. Makes it a more reasonable cast for tolarian academy/gae's cradle or channel.
Unfortunately anything but a ramp deck will basically never be able to make 10 mana... a 4/5 menace for 4 is only a desperation playable in non ramp decks.
Makes it a bit too narrow for my tastes.. If your cube group loves RB wildfire, or your cube actively supports it, I'd give this guy a test around 540 mark.
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Yeah this is my thought, the ceiling is obviously good if you can reach it but 10 mana can still be a lot even for ramp decks, and I can't imagine I'm consistently happy casting this for 2BB in cube.
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maybe thats too harsh. i dont run wildfire as an archetype so maybe then, but this guy is a 4/5 menace for 2BB almost every time which doesnt seem all that great compared to other options.
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- Serviceable in aggro / midrange (not ideal)
- Can do some work in a control shell, especially with scaleable sweepers
- Has good applications in Wildfire / Ramp decks
- Immune to most red removal spells (survives all burn unless stacked with more burn / combat damage)
- Immune to Nekrataal / Snuff Out / Shriekmaw / Cast Down
- 4/5 menace means it can tussle with most creatures and is difficult to block profitably
Trading menace for lifelink would've been huge, but that'd be too pushed since that's essentially a 4-mana exalted angel with all upside. The kicker cost not being so extravagant could've gone a long way also, that would've at least been reasonable. If I can find room I might test it for a bit, at least until I bury someone with zombies at least once.
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Maybe I have a different intuitive understanding of what "serviceable" means... When I think of that word, I think of 22-25th playable in an archetype. Often missing main deck, but can see play in a deck a bit weaker than average and being only a little bit worse than the 23rd playable in a strong version of the deck.
My prediction is that, if there's a <1% chance his ability will be activated, Josu will be even a tier below that. Like, he's better than splashing for a 2 drop in another color, or an 18th land in a deck that wants 16.5 lands... But will never beat out a card that is remotely on theater.
Sorry, I want him to be good too
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Any spell for 10 should also probably win the game (Profane Command for example, and that card hasn't been in our cube in years).
Edit: I assume you know this, but you can't pay kicker on a "flicker" effect. But yes I suppose you could bounce him back to your hand and then re-cast.
Yeah, it would be a true disaster if he ever made the MD of any of my aggro decks. I can't remember the last time I ever ended a draft and needed a 4 drop for my aggro deck.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
This is my feeling on the set as a whole. Normally when I only get 1-2 cube cards I think a set is garbagey or full of annoying parasitic mechanics. Dominaria is anything but.