Probably/certainly better than despise since there are more targets, but I never really loved despise. Does artifacts over planeswalkers push it to new territory?
Probably the #4 one-mana discard spell after Thoughtseize / Duress / Inquisition. Dealing with artifacts is really nice since black can’t deal with them otherwise. This competes with Freebooter / Collective Brutality for me, I might test it over one of those.
I think Despise is definitely better. Not sure this is good enough even at 720.
I think this is more useful for black: it has more hits and black can already deal with planeswalkers when on the battlefield. Black can’t deal with (non-creature) artifacts once they hit play. Being able to hit a mana rock in a Stax list is always nice.
I think Despise is definitely better. Not sure this is good enough even at 720.
Is it thought? Black has zero problems dealing with planeswalkers, but it can't remove artifacts once they resolve and there are def more artifacts in the average cube.
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Also re: non-creature artifacts, a lot of black decks have trouble with those too. It's definitely less so now than it was 5 years ago, but still GftT is the most popular doomblade variant by far.
I think Despise is definitely better. Not sure this is good enough even at 720.
Is it thought? Black has zero problems dealing with planeswalkers, but it can't remove artifacts once they resolve and there are def more artifacts in the average cube.
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Also re: non-creature artifacts, a lot of black decks have trouble with those too. It's definitely less so now than it was 5 years ago, but still GftT is the most popular doomblade variant by far.
If I am mono black id rather have this, but generally black is paired with a color that can kill Artifacts, and Id rather discard a PW before they can activate it. I lose more games to PW than Swords or other artifacts.
I'd say a lot of games are lost to Coalition Relic and Gilded Lotus too, maybe not them literally but there are a ton of decks that are packed full of artifacts in my meta. It's definitely a card that will vary in strength cube to cube.
I'd say a lot of games are lost to Coalition Relic and Gilded Lotus too, maybe not them literally but there are a ton of decks that are packed full of artifacts in my meta. It's definitely a card that will vary in strength cube to cube.
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Thats true, but ripping the thing they are ramping into out of their hand is sometimes as effective as taking the ramp card. The strength of these cards will vary game to game depending on matchup. Sometimes this will be better for sure. I may run both at 720.
Thats true, but ripping the thing they are ramping into out of their hand is sometimes as effective as taking the ramp card. The strength of these cards will vary game to game depending on matchup. Sometimes this will be better for sure. I may run both at 720.
You're not wrong, I agree taking a signet out of their hand is really strong.
I think at 720 you would be remiss to not try it, there really can't be enough good 1 mana discard spells. While this may be more despise than thoughtseize it's tough to fully say right now, and I could see it being really strong, or at min strong enough for mid-to-large sized cubes.
Think we could see "Creature, Artifact, or Planeswalker" for just B someday? That would be a slam dunk. I feel like this is about the same level as Despise (not good enough).
There are literally ten times as many artifacts in my cube as planeswalkers, so this is notably better than Despise there. I think this card is sweet, and is really the version of the effect that my cube wants.
*edit*
The more I think about the card, the more I like it.
MUCH better than despise in most cubes...
I evaluate 1 mana discard spells by the likelyhood of them whiffing and the quality of targets they can discard.
Artifacts + creatures give divest a lot of targets in a powered cube.. Also, there are a few very high impact artifact targets, that black decks can struggle to answer. Umezawa's Jitte, Skulclamp, vedalken shackles, sword of light and shadow and Artifact power.
I scanned my cube tutor , divest has slightly more hits than duress, but spell heavy decks are more likely to hold cards in their hand than creature heavy decks.. Hence it probably will miss slightly more than duress.
I think duress/inquisition are clearly better. Snatching one of the many broken build around cards has so much value. Channel, sneak attack, Natural order, Eureka, Tinker, Wheel of fortune, Time walk, Recurring nightmare etc. Multiple ban-worthy busted combo cards. They are only "fair enough" in cube because they lack redundancy.. making them especially vulnerable to a duress.
However, divest is enough better than despise, that it's worth looking closely at. Increasing the number and quality of targets makes a huge difference. In tighter powered cubes, duress' average pick value is around 3rd-4th pick, so there's a lot of room to be worse than it.
Also, even if it's power level turns out to be middle of the road.. Being a 1 mana spell that every style of black deck can play, has a lot of versatility value.
Verdict: I predict this will be a staple in most powered cubes going forward.
Think we could see "Creature, Artifact, or Planeswalker" for just B someday? That would be a slam dunk.
maybe if they tacked on the life loss from Thoughtseize, but even then I'd much prefer it to say "non-creature". Black has zero problems dealing with creatures after they've resolved, so I'm not interested in this ilk of discard spells. Black could certainly use one more A+ 1-mana discard spell as I slowly creep up in size, so I might bite my tongue and try this variant anyway.
What about a "nonland permanent" variant? Duress already takes enchantments & artifacts, this would be like a side-grade to it.
Divest hits more than Despise, but PW are on another power level than most Artifacts. id almost always rather take Jace the Mindsculptor out of their hand than a Signet.
Divest hits more than Despise, but PW are on another power level than most Artifacts. id almost always rather take Jace the Mindsculptor out of their hand than a Signet.
That may be true, but there are definitely more artifacts in every cube than planeswalkers, thus this probably hits more often, plus black can deal with planeswalkers through a few other means. Not often for one mana tho. I'm trying not to keep thinking how much better Duress is than this because this isn't supposed to replace that.
I think that not only is this better than Despise, but it's so much better than Despise that this is very likely worth a close look even in medium-sized cube lists. It not only has more overall targets, but it has far more good early game targets, it can disrupt mana in powered cubes, and it deals with a permanent type that black struggles with. I'd keep a close eye on this one.
Probably/certainly better than despise since there are more targets, but I never really loved despise. Does artifacts over planeswalkers push it to new territory?
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I think this is more useful for black: it has more hits and black can already deal with planeswalkers when on the battlefield. Black can’t deal with (non-creature) artifacts once they hit play. Being able to hit a mana rock in a Stax list is always nice.
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Is it thought? Black has zero problems dealing with planeswalkers, but it can't remove artifacts once they resolve and there are def more artifacts in the average cube.
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Also re: non-creature artifacts, a lot of black decks have trouble with those too. It's definitely less so now than it was 5 years ago, but still GftT is the most popular doomblade variant by far.
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If I am mono black id rather have this, but generally black is paired with a color that can kill Artifacts, and Id rather discard a PW before they can activate it. I lose more games to PW than Swords or other artifacts.
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Thats true, but ripping the thing they are ramping into out of their hand is sometimes as effective as taking the ramp card. The strength of these cards will vary game to game depending on matchup. Sometimes this will be better for sure. I may run both at 720.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
You're not wrong, I agree taking a signet out of their hand is really strong.
I think at 720 you would be remiss to not try it, there really can't be enough good 1 mana discard spells. While this may be more despise than thoughtseize it's tough to fully say right now, and I could see it being really strong, or at min strong enough for mid-to-large sized cubes.
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The more I think about the card, the more I like it.
MUCH better than despise in most cubes...
I evaluate 1 mana discard spells by the likelyhood of them whiffing and the quality of targets they can discard.
Artifacts + creatures give divest a lot of targets in a powered cube.. Also, there are a few very high impact artifact targets, that black decks can struggle to answer. Umezawa's Jitte, Skulclamp, vedalken shackles, sword of light and shadow and Artifact power.
I scanned my cube tutor , divest has slightly more hits than duress, but spell heavy decks are more likely to hold cards in their hand than creature heavy decks.. Hence it probably will miss slightly more than duress.
I think duress/inquisition are clearly better. Snatching one of the many broken build around cards has so much value. Channel, sneak attack, Natural order, Eureka, Tinker, Wheel of fortune, Time walk, Recurring nightmare etc. Multiple ban-worthy busted combo cards. They are only "fair enough" in cube because they lack redundancy.. making them especially vulnerable to a duress.
However, divest is enough better than despise, that it's worth looking closely at. Increasing the number and quality of targets makes a huge difference. In tighter powered cubes, duress' average pick value is around 3rd-4th pick, so there's a lot of room to be worse than it.
Also, even if it's power level turns out to be middle of the road.. Being a 1 mana spell that every style of black deck can play, has a lot of versatility value.
Verdict: I predict this will be a staple in most powered cubes going forward.
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maybe if they tacked on the life loss from Thoughtseize, but even then I'd much prefer it to say "non-creature". Black has zero problems dealing with creatures after they've resolved, so I'm not interested in this ilk of discard spells. Black could certainly use one more A+ 1-mana discard spell as I slowly creep up in size, so I might bite my tongue and try this variant anyway.
What about a "nonland permanent" variant? Duress already takes enchantments & artifacts, this would be like a side-grade to it.
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That may be true, but there are definitely more artifacts in every cube than planeswalkers, thus this probably hits more often, plus black can deal with planeswalkers through a few other means. Not often for one mana tho. I'm trying not to keep thinking how much better Duress is than this because this isn't supposed to replace that.
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Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
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