I'm a bit surprised that nobody made a thread on this yet. 4 mana 3 for 1 with good stats, clean mana cost, potential for more value over time, puts artifacts on the board, and encourages a discard matters theme. While not as broken, this has just as much immediate value as Palace Jailer / Custodi Lich with none of the risks (other than your reanimator opponent binning Archon of Cruelty or something). This also doesn't have the BBB requirements of Tourach, is better with recursion and can be blinked since it doesn't have protection from white, and also benefits from you discarding a card, not just your opponent. This is especially attractive for cubes that don't support monarch / initiative since black has a lot of 4-cmc monarch / initiative enablers.
I'm definitely testing this. As you highlighted, this is a fit for me because I don't run monarch/initiative. I would have made a thread for it here if I was more active on this forum than on Reddit.
card is certainly solid at minimum. Good value with decent board impact. It stood out to me , but ultimately decided against it.
My experience with the text “target player discards a card” is it performs worse than you’d imagine.
Especially in a format with a lot of graveyard value.
A targeted discard or a card at random is much better.
if the opponent is hell bent, this is a 4 mana 4/3 (but that will be uncommon)
The text I (probably) am underestimating is making a clue whenever the opponent discards a card. Lots of effects can make opponents discard, turning this into a semi engine. (Looting effects, Ottawara, trumpeting carnosaur etc).
card is good, but doesn’t quite make it for me to test. Interested in testing results.
The text I (probably) am underestimating is making a clue whenever the opponent discards a card. Lots of effects can make opponents discard, turning this into a semi engine. (Looting effects, Ottawara, trumpeting carnosaur etc).
For what it's worth, it's player, not "opponent", so whenever you discard cards you investigate, which is quite strong.
That being said, I do think it's hard to find room for this card if you support the themes and archetypes in the cube that require other black 4-drops already (stax, initiative, etc.).
Another point to remember is that effects like [land]cycling and channel also say 'discard', not to mention the many looting and rummaging effects these days. Discarding happens a lot during typical magic games even without actively forcing your opponent to discard.
In fact we're just testing The Raven Man for this very reason. Hostile Investigator goes quite well with this, but... it's really tough to fit in another 4-drop.
The text I (probably) am underestimating is making a clue whenever the opponent discards a card. Lots of effects can make opponents discard, turning this into a semi engine. (Looting effects, Ottawara, trumpeting carnosaur etc).
For what it's worth, it's player, not "opponent", so whenever you discard cards you investigate, which is quite strong.
That being said, I do think it's hard to find room for this card if you support the themes and archetypes in the cube that require other black 4-drops already (stax, initiative, etc.).
I had the correct sense I am underestimating that ability, but didn’t think it was because I misread it hehe. Yeah I missed that it triggers on your self discard too.
I think this is a strong value card and I was willing to try it but ended up adding Yawg for the Forsaken Miner combo. I do love discard matters cards like Inti and Currency Converter, so I'll keep this card in mind.
Looks like a great card for grindy matchups. But as far as Black 4s with powerful ETBs go, I would prefer Ravenous Chupacabra in more circumstances for the immediate board impact. The discard punishing/synergy is a nice touch, but it isn't as exciting on a 3 toughness 4-drop.
Looks like a great card for grindy matchups. But as far as Black 4s with powerful ETBs go, I would prefer Ravenous Chupacabra in more circumstances for the immediate board impact. The discard punishing/synergy is a nice touch, but it isn't as exciting on a 3 toughness 4-drop.
I'd much rather have this than Chupacabra, which I've found too low impact over the past couple of years. This has a bigger body, cleaner mana cost, more immediate / potential value, doesn't rely on my opponent having a creature, more synergies it enables (discard matters / artifact critical mass / etc).
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffI'm a bit surprised that nobody made a thread on this yet. 4 mana 3 for 1 with good stats, clean mana cost, potential for more value over time, puts artifacts on the board, and encourages a discard matters theme. While not as broken, this has just as much immediate value as Palace Jailer / Custodi Lich with none of the risks (other than your reanimator opponent binning Archon of Cruelty or something). This also doesn't have the BBB requirements of Tourach, is better with recursion and can be blinked since it doesn't have protection from white, and also benefits from you discarding a card, not just your opponent. This is especially attractive for cubes that don't support monarch / initiative since black has a lot of 4-cmc monarch / initiative enablers.
Join our Online Cube Draft Discord Group!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My experience with the text “target player discards a card” is it performs worse than you’d imagine.
Especially in a format with a lot of graveyard value.
A targeted discard or a card at random is much better.
if the opponent is hell bent, this is a 4 mana 4/3 (but that will be uncommon)
The text I (probably) am underestimating is making a clue whenever the opponent discards a card. Lots of effects can make opponents discard, turning this into a semi engine. (Looting effects, Ottawara, trumpeting carnosaur etc).
card is good, but doesn’t quite make it for me to test. Interested in testing results.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
For what it's worth, it's player, not "opponent", so whenever you discard cards you investigate, which is quite strong.
That being said, I do think it's hard to find room for this card if you support the themes and archetypes in the cube that require other black 4-drops already (stax, initiative, etc.).
My 720 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
In fact we're just testing The Raven Man for this very reason. Hostile Investigator goes quite well with this, but... it's really tough to fit in another 4-drop.
I had the correct sense I am underestimating that ability, but didn’t think it was because I misread it hehe. Yeah I missed that it triggers on your self discard too.
Very tempted to test the card now 🤔
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
540 Version: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/zza
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffI'd much rather have this than Chupacabra, which I've found too low impact over the past couple of years. This has a bigger body, cleaner mana cost, more immediate / potential value, doesn't rely on my opponent having a creature, more synergies it enables (discard matters / artifact critical mass / etc).
Join our Online Cube Draft Discord Group!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra