This seems pretty strong on raw stats alone, this has a lot going for it:
- Mana fixing
- Fairly aggressive +1 ability that has little risk since it gives it hexproof AND vigilance until your next turn
- High starting loyalty for 3-cmc planeswalker
- Fuels the graveyard / recurs things
My only complaint is that its -2 ability can only choose from the milled cards. Also, while this can be a pain to deal with, this will often leave little to no value if your opponent has a direct answer to it.
I've been eager to get more interesting 3mv noncreature spells in Green, and I think this looks worth trying out because its abilities seem versatile and I don't think we've had a PW much like this before. Fixing for a 5-color deck is probably very helpful, and the +1 seems very reasonable for either offense or defense in most decks. I particularly like that any land I animate will still be able to tap for (any!) mana after an attack, so using the ability doesn't seem like a huge liability for tempo. It would have been very cool if it also untapped the land (so you can avoid a do-nothing if you tapped out to play it and don't want to -2 yet), but maybe also getting ramp on this PW would have been too much for 3 mana. And while I agree that the -2 could have been nicer by opening up the whole gy for targets, I think it still provides a reasonable amount of value for the mana investment.
I predict this Wrenn will be a fun inclusion for people who include 5-color as well as those who have some graveyard themes available; I don't think reanimator decks will necessarily want it, but it looks helpful for fueling delve or delirium. Although, I guess that land can still be sacrificed to Recurring Nightmare if you're willing to go for it.
Seems great in green decks that want to attack: you -2 the turn you play Wrenn, then +1 to attack every turn until the 3/3 cannot get through anymore, at which point you can -2 to draw again. I'd play a 1GG 3/3 that does the -2 effect on ETB, and Wrenn is arguably better, as you can draw again in the future, your mana becomes perfect, and if the creature dies you lose a land instead of a 3/3, which is generally a good trade. The main drawback is of course losing creature/blink synergies, but in a vacuum, the greatest con is that Wrenn is bad on defense: you can never block with the land creatures unless you don't spend all of your mana. This further makes Wrenn more specific to aggressive/midrange green decks.
I think it'll be a good card, but trying to properly evaluate it is frying my brain. I can definitely make the prediction that Wrenn won't work well for 5-color decks, as decks with mana that shaky are rarely aggressive enough to take advantage of Wrenn. A card like Dryad of the Ilysian Grove would work much better for those decks. Definitely testing.
The more I read this card, the more I think its pretty well designed:
- Wreen can come down turn 3 to create a 3/3 (tapped) and pumps to 5 loyalty and can come down turn 4 to create a 3/3 (untapped) and pump to 5 loyalty
- The land has haste, which I've found to be a fairly good keyword in green for sniping opposing planeswalkers, which green decks often struggle with
- Her static helps green decks splash for a 3rd for 4th color, but requires a double green
My bar for green 3-4 CMC is it needs to either be one of two things:
- Combo Piece
- Combination of ramp/ removal/ card advantage that can be a strong 3 CMC drop that bridge the gap between 1 CMC dorks and 5-7 CMC payoffs. (I've written about the importance of cards like Garruk, Oko, Uro, Tireless Tracker, Courser in these types of decks).
I could see her fitting this role with her -2 helping to smooth out reanimator/ ramp deck and her +1 with helping to snipe early planeswalkers to buy time for the green deck.
Definitely testing.
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This card just generally seems great in Simic decks. The passive ability is great and aside from making every land you have perfect fixing (including fetchlands), it plays great with a lot of already great Simic cards such as Uro, and delve cards (Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise). I see a common play pattern for this being downtick -> uptick -> downtick. Just to fuel the graveyard as much as possible. 2 nondisruptable card draw + 4 worse cards fueling graveyard + 3/3 hasty hexproof attacker that can tap for mana post combat + perfect fixing on a 3 mana green card is really really good.
Of course it still dies to damage, but the loyalty rate is what makes it so good to begin with.
Part of what made Oko so good is that for 3 mana he came down and went up to 5-6 loyalty, which is a lot to deal with so fast. In cube especially where you have more dorks than the average constructed format, I see Wrenn and Realmbreaker coming down on turn 2 a lot which is huge. The passive ability playing around Blood Moon effects is great to where it matters.
I think this card is great and can't wait to cube it.
I also will forever dream about ultimating it with a bauble in the yard and drawing as many cards as I want.
While it's clear that Wrenn is good, especially for fixing, I'm not too sure that it holds its own in the aggro matchup.
The land that you pick becomes a 3/3 and gains hexproof so that it can defend. It still can't protect you if you play the Walker on curve, and even if it stays untapped on later turns, when trading you are down a land, since it doesn't have indestructible.
If you want to reach 4 or 5 mana for a board wipe or Hermit to stabilize, you're faced with an impossible choice... Let an attacker hit you, which may end up killing you, or losing a land and getting further away from saving yourself in the long run.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar may be a mid-tier planeswalker, but at least she generates blockers that you don't care to lose. While her -2 is generally worse and her ult isn't quite as good, getting there consistently with a better +1 seems better for the matchup than Wrenn's risk vs reward.
I have to admit I am a lot less enthusiastic about the new Wrenn than most people I've seen talk about it so far are. I think it looks like a decent card, and a nice option if you are struggling to find green 3-drops you like. However, I don't think it is anywhere near replacing any of my green 3-drops in my current 360 cube.
I think it is easy to overestimate the card, because all of the abilities seem quite strong at first glance - but have some details that make them less interesting:
The static mana fixing ability doesn't seem super relevant to me, because Wrenn already costs double green. If it had been 2G, it would be much nicer in a 3-5C deck, but at 1GG it needs to be in a fairly green-based deck, which rarely struggle with splashing much to begin with in my experience.
The +1 would be strong if it untapped the land, but it doesn't. If you play Wrenn as a 3-drop, the +1 basically does nothing for you except up the loyalty - which is really not where you want to be unless your opponent is durdling. So to get value out of the +1 you need to cast this as a 4-drop. In addition, while a 3/3 can be nice to either defend Wrenn or slowly whittle at your opponent or their planeswalkers, Wrenn will never give you more than a single 3/3 at time. Unlike for example Nissa, Who Wins Games, which produces a new 3/3 every turn (or makes a single creature bigger). And while the Hexproof is very nice, it is not enough to weigh up for the fact that using lands to defend being risky. Playing Wrenn as a 4-drop and using the land as a defender sucks if your opponent swings in with a 3-power creature.
The -2 is card advantage, so that is nice. But the fact that you can only pick from the three milled cards is awkward. While whiffing on this effect seems very unlikely. I think it will often be a bit lackluster. If you could pick anything from the yard, I would be much more positive to Wrenn as it would be a great late topdeck.
I think the ultimate is what makes thing card slightly interesting, as it is a very strong effect. Starting at 4 loyalty and ulting at 7 also makes Wrenn a "must-answer" threat if you start plussing every turn. However, I don't think a strong ultimate after 4 turns is the same kind of threat it used to be way back, and the much faster pace of cubes today will have no struggle simply answering or out-pacing Wrenn.
I will admit I might be very wrong here, and time will tell.
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I have to admit I am a lot less enthusiastic about the new Wrenn than most people I've seen talk about it so far are. I think it looks like a decent card, and a nice option if you are struggling to find green 3-drops you like. However, I don't think it is anywhere near replacing any of my green 3-drops in my current 360 cube.
I think it is easy to overestimate the card, because all of the abilities seem quite strong at first glance - but have some details that make them less interesting:
The static mana fixing ability doesn't seem super relevant to me, because Wrenn already costs double green. If it had been 2G, it would be much nicer in a 3-5C deck, but at 1GG it needs to be in a fairly green-based deck, which rarely struggle with splashing much to begin with in my experience.
The +1 would be strong if it untapped the land, but it doesn't. If you play Wrenn as a 3-drop, the +1 basically does nothing for you except up the loyalty - which is really not where you want to be unless your opponent is durdling. So to get value out of the +1 you need to cast this as a 4-drop. In addition, while a 3/3 can be nice to either defend Wrenn or slowly whittle at your opponent or their planeswalkers, Wrenn will never give you more than a single 3/3 at time. Unlike for example Nissa, Who Wins Games, which produces a new 3/3 every turn (or makes a single creature bigger). And while the Hexproof is very nice, it is not enough to weigh up for the fact that using lands to defend being risky. Playing Wrenn as a 4-drop and using the land as a defender sucks if your opponent swings in with a 3-power creature.
The -2 is card advantage, so that is nice. But the fact that you can only pick from the three milled cards is awkward. While whiffing on this effect seems very unlikely. I think it will often be a bit lackluster. If you could pick anything from the yard, I would be much more positive to Wrenn as it would be a great late topdeck.
I think the ultimate is what makes thing card slightly interesting, as it is a very strong effect. Starting at 4 loyalty and ulting at 7 also makes Wrenn a "must-answer" threat if you start plussing every turn. However, I don't think a strong ultimate after 4 turns is the same kind of threat it used to be way back, and the much faster pace of cubes today will have no struggle simply answering or out-pacing Wrenn.
I will admit I might be very wrong here, and time will tell.
Yah its not a slam dunk IMO, just marginally stronger than the other options.
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I think this being 3 cmc is doing a lot to make this seem better than it really is. If you cast it on-curve the + does literally nothing, so you're either basically doing a +1 for nothing or doing a -2 draw a card (I don't know what the whiff percentage is but since you can get land it's got to be almost 0) and hoping your 1 loyalty PW can survive the turn. If you have an extra land and a 3/3 is a good attacker or blocker, it gets better, but that's not the majority of turns in the majority of games, and late game it's extremely low impact. The fixing is fine, but obviously not a main purpose for running this card.
I think this is probably good, not great, at best. It's clearly better than all the other green 3 PW options except Nissa, Voice of Zendikar (which I think is close), but none of them are great. I don't think I'll test this unless I hear great things. I just don't know what deck it makes better and it's not generically strong.
I think this being 3 cmc is doing a lot to make this seem better than it really is. If you cast it on-curve the + does literally nothing, so you're either basically doing a +1 for nothing or doing a -2 draw a card
I think people are underestimating how much more often it'll be to -2 right off the bat, especially on curve. IMO the key to Wrenn is using the -2 as much as possible.
I’m going to guess wrenn is cubeable but nothing busted.
it’s a 3 mana planeswalker that can snowball if left unchecked, can guarantee card parity independent of board state and can tick up to high loyalty while defending itself.
That is a recipe for a winning planeswalker. I’m Never going to bet against that combination of traits.
What holds it back from being busted is
- the permanent restriction on its -2 limits the quality of spells to dig for.
- the land not untapping makes wrenn a bit more awkward to play on curve.
- the 3/3 is a terrible chump blocker. Throwing away a land a turn is very expensive. Wrenn can’t defend effectively on later turns.
- if you +1 to try and ultimate you are generating no value. A removal spell 1for1s you.
-heavy green decks tend to have poor interaction so they need to ramp to big spells that overwhelm board states. Wrenn is not effective at contributing to that game plan (it’s fine as a pseudo card draw spell and mana fixer).
I have to admit I am a lot less enthusiastic about the new Wrenn than most people I've seen talk about it so far are.
You're not the only one.
Quote from LucidVision »
What holds it back from being busted is
- the permanent restriction on its -2 limits the quality of spells to dig for.
Even more restrictive is that the {-2} can only choose "from among the milled cards" ...meaning it can't choose a good/important permanent card that was already in your graveyard. That's the line that really hurts for me.
..........
I personally think that this 'walker is fine, but not great.
I think this being 3 cmc is doing a lot to make this seem better than it really is. If you cast it on-curve the + does literally nothing, so you're either basically doing a +1 for nothing or doing a -2 draw a card
I think people are underestimating how much more often it'll be to -2 right off the bat, especially on curve. IMO the key to Wrenn is using the -2 as much as possible.
It's an extremely underwhelming 3-drop if all it does is -2 and die to an attacker. Obviously that's not what will always happen if you drop it on turn 3 and -2 it, but it will happen a good amount of the time if your opponent has a board presence.
I think this being 3 cmc is doing a lot to make this seem better than it really is. If you cast it on-curve the + does literally nothing, so you're either basically doing a +1 for nothing or doing a -2 draw a card
I think people are underestimating how much more often it'll be to -2 right off the bat, especially on curve. IMO the key to Wrenn is using the -2 as much as possible.
It's an extremely underwhelming 3-drop if all it does is -2 and die to an attacker. Obviously that's not what will always happen if you drop it on turn 3 and -2 it, but it will happen a good amount of the time if your opponent has a board presence.
The floor of most 3-4 cmc planeswalkers are pretty low, so I don't see this as a strike against it. Wrenn's first two loyalty abilities make it a pseudo Gideon Blackblade / Narset, Parter of Veils, giving it a lot of flexibility. It's not great in the sense that its abilities really aren't abusable. For example, this doesn't go off with Gaea's Cradle / Skullclamp / or enable Natural Order like Nissa, Voice of Zendikar can, but I'd also argue that Wrenn is more self-sufficient than Nissa.
Quote from LucidVision »
What holds it back from being busted is
- the permanent restriction on its -2 limits the quality of spells to dig for.
Quote from wtwlf123 »
Even more restrictive is that the {-2} can only choose "from among the milled cards" ...meaning it can't choose a good/important permanent card that was already in your graveyard. That's the line that really hurts for me.
I feel like a lot of people misread this ability at first, assuming that it could get any permanent. While that would've been really awesome if it did, I think people's initial expectations are causing them to undervalue what the ability actually is. -2 for card selection and fueling the graveyard is pretty on-par for what you'd get on a 3-cmc planeswalker, Narset, Parter of Veils / Liliana, the Last Hope being the closest analogies. I ain't complaining about an Oath of Nissa on a 3-cmc planeswalker that can hit any permanent type and fuel my graveyard. Wrenn also mana fixes like Oath of Nissa too, but for everything.
Quote from wtwlf123 »
I personally think that this 'walker is fine, but not great.
Yeah I think it's closer to Nissa, Voice of Zendikar than it is to something like Grist, the Hunger Tide. Still, I think this is quite a good card for creature heavy shells that can deploy this on turn 2 consistently to consistently grind out its -2 as much as possible.
I have to admit I am a lot less enthusiastic about the new Wrenn than most people I've seen talk about it so far are.
You're not the only one.
Quote from LucidVision »
What holds it back from being busted is
- the permanent restriction on its -2 limits the quality of spells to dig for.
Even more restrictive is that the {-2} can only choose "from among the milled cards" ...meaning it can't choose a good/important permanent card that was already in your graveyard. That's the line that really hurts for me.
..........
I personally think that this 'walker is fine, but not great.
If the -2 was a mill + regrowth for permanents, I think wrenn would be nuts!
As is, wrenn doesn’t scale that great in the late game as his +1 gets outclassed. Regrowth scales up into the late game, so the combination would be powerful.
Wrenn's passive ability lets you keep your fetchlands in play, and fetchlands synergise very well with Wrenn's +1: as it grants vigilance and haste, you can sacrifice the fetchland after blocking, or if the opponent's large creature chose to block that land over another attacker. In addition to fetchlands, this trick works with Wasteland-type effects and Horizon lands. This seems like something very relevant that should come up often in games with Wrenn.
There's also some synergy with manlands, as they both cost 1 less to activate (thanks to vigilance, you can tap them to themselves after attacks) and present the threat of activation. Wrenn has especially strong synergy with the manland Crawling Barrens, which highly appreciates the 3/3 in base stats, the hexproof to protect its ever-growing huge body and the mana gained from vigilance to activate its ability more. The threat of activation is more of a minor bonus with most manlands, as few have a body much larger than a 3/3. Lair of the Hydra and Hall of the Storm Giants seem like the most relevant cases after the Barrens.
Wrenn and Realmbreaker (W&R? WRealmbreaker?) should be able to put in some good work any game where the opponent can't aggro her down in a single turn. Even if you play her on turn 3 with no blockers, the fact that you can get her to 5 loyalty makes it difficult for the opponent to remove her through attacking alone. And they can't just ignore her. Her ultimate ability is so powerful, and if they only lower her loyalty without killing her, they will have to contend with a 3/3 animated land swinging at them each turn. Dropping two loyalty for a Bond of Flourishing on a planeswalker that can't protect itself isn't exactly ideal, but it does let you "cash in" Wrenn if you expect your opponent to have removal or if you draw her lategame. Green's 3-slot is filled almost exclusively with efficient creatures, so I'll cube Wrenn if only for a break in the monotony.
I've been liking Wrenn and Realmbreaker so far. Like I said before, the -2 ability is much better than it looks at first (especially since most people read it wrong) and is the most important ability of Wrenn and Realmbreaker, IMO. I've also been adding more 4-5 color payoffs like Niv / Bring to Light / Golos / Omnath / etc, so the mana fixing is pretty clutch there too.
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StaffThis seems pretty strong on raw stats alone, this has a lot going for it:
- Mana fixing
- Fairly aggressive +1 ability that has little risk since it gives it hexproof AND vigilance until your next turn
- High starting loyalty for 3-cmc planeswalker
- Fuels the graveyard / recurs things
My only complaint is that its -2 ability can only choose from the milled cards. Also, while this can be a pain to deal with, this will often leave little to no value if your opponent has a direct answer to it.
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I predict this Wrenn will be a fun inclusion for people who include 5-color as well as those who have some graveyard themes available; I don't think reanimator decks will necessarily want it, but it looks helpful for fueling delve or delirium. Although, I guess that land can still be sacrificed to Recurring Nightmare if you're willing to go for it.
I think it'll be a good card, but trying to properly evaluate it is frying my brain. I can definitely make the prediction that Wrenn won't work well for 5-color decks, as decks with mana that shaky are rarely aggressive enough to take advantage of Wrenn. A card like Dryad of the Ilysian Grove would work much better for those decks. Definitely testing.
- Wreen can come down turn 3 to create a 3/3 (tapped) and pumps to 5 loyalty and can come down turn 4 to create a 3/3 (untapped) and pump to 5 loyalty
- The land has haste, which I've found to be a fairly good keyword in green for sniping opposing planeswalkers, which green decks often struggle with
- Her static helps green decks splash for a 3rd for 4th color, but requires a double green
My bar for green 3-4 CMC is it needs to either be one of two things:
- Combo Piece
- Combination of ramp/ removal/ card advantage that can be a strong 3 CMC drop that bridge the gap between 1 CMC dorks and 5-7 CMC payoffs. (I've written about the importance of cards like Garruk, Oko, Uro, Tireless Tracker, Courser in these types of decks).
I could see her fitting this role with her -2 helping to smooth out reanimator/ ramp deck and her +1 with helping to snipe early planeswalkers to buy time for the green deck.
Definitely testing.
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Of course it still dies to damage, but the loyalty rate is what makes it so good to begin with.
Part of what made Oko so good is that for 3 mana he came down and went up to 5-6 loyalty, which is a lot to deal with so fast. In cube especially where you have more dorks than the average constructed format, I see Wrenn and Realmbreaker coming down on turn 2 a lot which is huge. The passive ability playing around Blood Moon effects is great to where it matters.
I think this card is great and can't wait to cube it.
I also will forever dream about ultimating it with a bauble in the yard and drawing as many cards as I want.
Poitle approved card.
The land that you pick becomes a 3/3 and gains hexproof so that it can defend. It still can't protect you if you play the Walker on curve, and even if it stays untapped on later turns, when trading you are down a land, since it doesn't have indestructible.
If you want to reach 4 or 5 mana for a board wipe or Hermit to stabilize, you're faced with an impossible choice... Let an attacker hit you, which may end up killing you, or losing a land and getting further away from saving yourself in the long run.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar may be a mid-tier planeswalker, but at least she generates blockers that you don't care to lose. While her -2 is generally worse and her ult isn't quite as good, getting there consistently with a better +1 seems better for the matchup than Wrenn's risk vs reward.
I think it is easy to overestimate the card, because all of the abilities seem quite strong at first glance - but have some details that make them less interesting:
I will admit I might be very wrong here, and time will tell.
Yah its not a slam dunk IMO, just marginally stronger than the other options.
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2. Improving Green Archetypes
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I think this is probably good, not great, at best. It's clearly better than all the other green 3 PW options except Nissa, Voice of Zendikar (which I think is close), but none of them are great. I don't think I'll test this unless I hear great things. I just don't know what deck it makes better and it's not generically strong.
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StaffI think people are underestimating how much more often it'll be to -2 right off the bat, especially on curve. IMO the key to Wrenn is using the -2 as much as possible.
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it’s a 3 mana planeswalker that can snowball if left unchecked, can guarantee card parity independent of board state and can tick up to high loyalty while defending itself.
That is a recipe for a winning planeswalker. I’m Never going to bet against that combination of traits.
What holds it back from being busted is
- the permanent restriction on its -2 limits the quality of spells to dig for.
- the land not untapping makes wrenn a bit more awkward to play on curve.
- the 3/3 is a terrible chump blocker. Throwing away a land a turn is very expensive. Wrenn can’t defend effectively on later turns.
- if you +1 to try and ultimate you are generating no value. A removal spell 1for1s you.
-heavy green decks tend to have poor interaction so they need to ramp to big spells that overwhelm board states. Wrenn is not effective at contributing to that game plan (it’s fine as a pseudo card draw spell and mana fixer).
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You're not the only one.
Even more restrictive is that the {-2} can only choose "from among the milled cards" ...meaning it can't choose a good/important permanent card that was already in your graveyard. That's the line that really hurts for me.
..........
I personally think that this 'walker is fine, but not great.
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It's an extremely underwhelming 3-drop if all it does is -2 and die to an attacker. Obviously that's not what will always happen if you drop it on turn 3 and -2 it, but it will happen a good amount of the time if your opponent has a board presence.
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StaffThe floor of most 3-4 cmc planeswalkers are pretty low, so I don't see this as a strike against it. Wrenn's first two loyalty abilities make it a pseudo Gideon Blackblade / Narset, Parter of Veils, giving it a lot of flexibility. It's not great in the sense that its abilities really aren't abusable. For example, this doesn't go off with Gaea's Cradle / Skullclamp / or enable Natural Order like Nissa, Voice of Zendikar can, but I'd also argue that Wrenn is more self-sufficient than Nissa.
I feel like a lot of people misread this ability at first, assuming that it could get any permanent. While that would've been really awesome if it did, I think people's initial expectations are causing them to undervalue what the ability actually is. -2 for card selection and fueling the graveyard is pretty on-par for what you'd get on a 3-cmc planeswalker, Narset, Parter of Veils / Liliana, the Last Hope being the closest analogies. I ain't complaining about an Oath of Nissa on a 3-cmc planeswalker that can hit any permanent type and fuel my graveyard. Wrenn also mana fixes like Oath of Nissa too, but for everything.
Yeah I think it's closer to Nissa, Voice of Zendikar than it is to something like Grist, the Hunger Tide. Still, I think this is quite a good card for creature heavy shells that can deploy this on turn 2 consistently to consistently grind out its -2 as much as possible.
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If the -2 was a mill + regrowth for permanents, I think wrenn would be nuts!
As is, wrenn doesn’t scale that great in the late game as his +1 gets outclassed. Regrowth scales up into the late game, so the combination would be powerful.
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Wrenn's passive ability lets you keep your fetchlands in play, and fetchlands synergise very well with Wrenn's +1: as it grants vigilance and haste, you can sacrifice the fetchland after blocking, or if the opponent's large creature chose to block that land over another attacker. In addition to fetchlands, this trick works with Wasteland-type effects and Horizon lands. This seems like something very relevant that should come up often in games with Wrenn.
There's also some synergy with manlands, as they both cost 1 less to activate (thanks to vigilance, you can tap them to themselves after attacks) and present the threat of activation. Wrenn has especially strong synergy with the manland Crawling Barrens, which highly appreciates the 3/3 in base stats, the hexproof to protect its ever-growing huge body and the mana gained from vigilance to activate its ability more. The threat of activation is more of a minor bonus with most manlands, as few have a body much larger than a 3/3. Lair of the Hydra and Hall of the Storm Giants seem like the most relevant cases after the Barrens.
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