Could have sworn someone made a thread for this, but couldn't find it.
I've been testing this since inception and am higher on it than ever.
Tormenting voice has been in and out of my cube for a while, as additional reanimator/welder support, but I felt the power level didn't make up for it's narrowness. In a heavy reanimator deck, the discard is a positive thing, making it better than a 2 mana draw 2. The more you discard a card you want in your hand, the more it's power level sharply falls
The haste ability has proven to be a big upside over voice. You still don't want in a random good stuff deck, but in creature combo decks it's so much better.
Many big cheaty targets have powerful attack triggers that an additional turn of attacks can mean the difference between a W and a L. It also has random utility like hasting a fable of mirror breaker token, or threatening to snipe an undefended planeswalker.
I'm a fan of these card filtering effects and adding a permanent to the board does help off-set some of the tempo loss of going card neutral. It would have been especially spicy if it didn't have that "if you do" condition, but maybe one day if we get the rare version of this effect.
The haste on this is just a nice package deal. It lets you get back some of the tempo you typically lose with effects like this, this can really speed up your gameplan in reanimator but since it's *all* creatures it can help decks that are looking to go wide.
I think this is a bad enabler for one specific style of deck. I think if we really wanted to support reanimator, we should be Firestorm or Putrid Imp.
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Important to note that this is a self-binning enchantment, and so is great support for red in cubes that support delirium. DRC is notoriously powerful, but Unholy Heat is considered premium removal in Modern, and I think it has decent potential in cube.
I've been liking Bitter Reunion since being a card filterer / discard outlet / haste enabler is an extremely powerful combination of abilities for cheaty face . Astral Dragon + Bitter Reunion is my new favorite combo, lol.
Here I had turn 2 Bitter Reunion, discard Astral Dragon. Turn 3 Persist for Astral Dragon, copying the Bitter Reunion to draw a bunch of cards and then sacrificed the original Bitter Reunion to swing for 9 in the air.
In this other game, I had Incarnation Technique for Astral Dragon to copy Bitter Reunion again. I discarded Atraxa and was planning to bring that back with the second copy of Incarnation Technique, but ended up binning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn instead. Gave them all haste and that was a wrap.
This was my original thought, but in practice Bitter Reunion has been much better in my experience. The ceiling of giving all your creatures haste is so much higher impact than being an instant. Instant speed really isn't critical to this type of effect. Bitter Reunion's floor is also much better because the discard isn't part of the cost and you don't get randomly blown out by Hullbreacher or a counterspell.
I liked Thrill when I tested it out. Being an instant provided more than just the ability to play it on your opponent's turn; it also made it a playable card in spells matters shells, and being another target for Snapcasters and JVPs was important in those decks. Plus, I do think being an instant is important for graveyard builds. Telegraphing your reanimation setup can be a big deal. Binning your target at your opponent's EOT can save a lot of mishaps. Just my $0.02.
I liked Thrill when I tested it out. Being an instant provided more than just the ability to play it on your opponent's turn; it also made it a playable card in spells matters shells, and being another target for Snapcasters and JVPs was important in those decks. Plus, I do think being an instant is important for graveyard builds. Telegraphing your reanimation setup can be a big deal. Binning your target at your opponent's EOT can save a lot of mishaps. Just my $0.02.
Thrill was legal in several retail drafts and my firm conclusion is its not playable in any deck outside of dedicated reanimator (including spells matters, storm etc). However, I've found the haste to be incredibly strong, even for fair archetypes. During Brother's War, if the opponent has a Bitter Reunion out, I was at a virtually lower life.
I think its worth a test.
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Thrill of Possibility is okay outside of reanimator decks, but I've found it to be more of a filler card than anything. It has a decent niche for fueling the graveyard (Uro / Kroxa / delve / etc). However, in their main applications of reanimator / cheaty face decks, I've been playing them side by side since early February and have found Bitter Reunion to be far superior to Thrill of Possibility. Being a haste enabler is huge, and the combo with Astral Dragon is an insane interaction.
Speaking of Astral Dragon, I think that's a very underrated cheaty face target that may have gotten overshadowed by initiative / Minsc & Boo during CLB spoiler season. It's essentially a flying Primeval Titan / Grave Titan that has a lot of random combos and is very good against monarch / initiative.
This card and Astral Dragon are both on my watch list right now. Cool cards, to be sure.
Interestingly, I been thinking about the "reanimator storm" hybrid archetype for a while to help both be a bit more competitive, and I just realized Astral Dragon CAN be a Griselbrand/ Atraxa level reanimator target to copy LED/ Mana Doublers/ Grim Monolith etc.
I'll give it a test. My concern is with all the "JUDGE!", what happens if this copies a planeswalker/ LED etc.
I play legacy and I can tell you the Judge's favorite card is Dress Down
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I’ll weigh in cause , why not… bitter reunion holding up since I posted this.
Initial evaluations were accurate.
Easy to underestimate the haste.
It’s not a high pick or a build around, but it’s a solid enabler and the #2 discard enabler in red behind faithless looting.
I haven’t tested firestorm in over 5 years but I found it to be wildly inconsistent back in the day. Sometimes it was game winning back breaking, often it was very awkward. Super high variance , hard to evaluate card.
Haven't tested it in my main cube but it has been really solid for turbo cube.
Firestorm is a card I used to like back in the day but I don't think it would get a slot 8n my regular cube now. When it's good it's a absolute blow out, but when you drew it late the red decks struggled to have the cards to pitch to it.
Could have sworn someone made a thread for this, but couldn't find it.
I've been testing this since inception and am higher on it than ever.
Tormenting voice has been in and out of my cube for a while, as additional reanimator/welder support, but I felt the power level didn't make up for it's narrowness. In a heavy reanimator deck, the discard is a positive thing, making it better than a 2 mana draw 2. The more you discard a card you want in your hand, the more it's power level sharply falls
The haste ability has proven to be a big upside over voice. You still don't want in a random good stuff deck, but in creature combo decks it's so much better.
Many big cheaty targets have powerful attack triggers that an additional turn of attacks can mean the difference between a W and a L. It also has random utility like hasting a fable of mirror breaker token, or threatening to snipe an undefended planeswalker.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I'm a fan of these card filtering effects and adding a permanent to the board does help off-set some of the tempo loss of going card neutral. It would have been especially spicy if it didn't have that "if you do" condition, but maybe one day if we get the rare version of this effect.
The haste on this is just a nice package deal. It lets you get back some of the tempo you typically lose with effects like this, this can really speed up your gameplan in reanimator but since it's *all* creatures it can help decks that are looking to go wide.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Here I had turn 2 Bitter Reunion, discard Astral Dragon. Turn 3 Persist for Astral Dragon, copying the Bitter Reunion to draw a bunch of cards and then sacrificed the original Bitter Reunion to swing for 9 in the air.
In this other game, I had Incarnation Technique for Astral Dragon to copy Bitter Reunion again. I discarded Atraxa and was planning to bring that back with the second copy of Incarnation Technique, but ended up binning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn instead. Gave them all haste and that was a wrap.
IMO Bitter Reunion is much better than Firestorm / Putrid Imp since it goes well with non-reanimator cheaty face style decks as well.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Bitter Reunion is cool too. I think I like it just slightly less than Thrill of Possibility (instant speed is good). But Firestorm's a banger.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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This was my original thought, but in practice Bitter Reunion has been much better in my experience. The ceiling of giving all your creatures haste is so much higher impact than being an instant. Instant speed really isn't critical to this type of effect. Bitter Reunion's floor is also much better because the discard isn't part of the cost and you don't get randomly blown out by Hullbreacher or a counterspell.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Thrill was legal in several retail drafts and my firm conclusion is its not playable in any deck outside of dedicated reanimator (including spells matters, storm etc). However, I've found the haste to be incredibly strong, even for fair archetypes. During Brother's War, if the opponent has a Bitter Reunion out, I was at a virtually lower life.
I think its worth a test.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Speaking of Astral Dragon, I think that's a very underrated cheaty face target that may have gotten overshadowed by initiative / Minsc & Boo during CLB spoiler season. It's essentially a flying Primeval Titan / Grave Titan that has a lot of random combos and is very good against monarch / initiative.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Interestingly, I been thinking about the "reanimator storm" hybrid archetype for a while to help both be a bit more competitive, and I just realized Astral Dragon CAN be a Griselbrand/ Atraxa level reanimator target to copy LED/ Mana Doublers/ Grim Monolith etc.
I'll give it a test. My concern is with all the "JUDGE!", what happens if this copies a planeswalker/ LED etc.
I play legacy and I can tell you the Judge's favorite card is Dress Down
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Initial evaluations were accurate.
Easy to underestimate the haste.
It’s not a high pick or a build around, but it’s a solid enabler and the #2 discard enabler in red behind faithless looting.
I haven’t tested firestorm in over 5 years but I found it to be wildly inconsistent back in the day. Sometimes it was game winning back breaking, often it was very awkward. Super high variance , hard to evaluate card.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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Firestorm is a card I used to like back in the day but I don't think it would get a slot 8n my regular cube now. When it's good it's a absolute blow out, but when you drew it late the red decks struggled to have the cards to pitch to it.