Does anyone have preliminary thoughts about card performance from this set so far?
Sure, I'll share.
Note: my 600 powered cube with duplicates has heavy artifact utility support with 2x welder, trash for treasure, Sai master thopterist, goblin engineer, kappa cannoneer etc. Dinky artifacts (trinkets) are better in my cube than most. I've been trying to support artifact decks that are more interesting than signet ramp + combo.
So far, the experiment has been a success.
Haywire Mite++
This card has been the quiet MVP of the set. Tutorable, artifact synergies, life gain, creature synergies, efficient non-creature removal.
It synergizes with many strategies and is good in so many matchups. My cube leverages this card more than most, so I can't guarantee it for every cube, but this little buddy has earned a spot in my cube for a long time. Every normal powered cube should be testing this card imo.
Phyrexain Dragon Engine+
it’s synergy with welder effects, specifically goblin engineer has proven to be quite powerful in my cube. I've entombed this with goblin engineer a few times and every time its felt very powerful. It turns goblin engineer into a must kill threat that leaves behind graveyard value. That combo alone makes dragon engine worth supporting IF and only IF you run goblin engineer. I wouldn't run it in typical cubes.
Legion to Ashses+
This has been a premium catch all, expensive removal spell. Exile is very relevant. I realize I've included so much cheap/conditional removal that there's been a demand for something that can hit more powerful/expensive targets. I've witnessed it be a key answer to 13 mana emrakul and 10 mana ulamog. Unsure how long it'll last, but it passed it's first test.
Misery's Shadow+
I had high hopes for this card and it's been everything I've wanted it to be. It put an insanely fast clock on me in a UB control deck. I saw it splashed in a red agro deck , help exile a kitchen finks and beat down to trade with a primeval titan!
A competitive, splashable , agressive 2 drop that is better than filler quality.
Bitter Reunion++
The more I play with this card the more I love it. The haste is so much more useful than I thought it would be. I had high hopes for reanimator and welder decks, but it's also been a solid playable in cheaty decks that don't use the graveyard. I had a channel/sneak attack deck where haste and card selection was at a premium.
Today I played it in a good stuff deck with a couple titans and it was a fine playable there too. I had inferno titan under shell dock isle and was able to hasty kill my opponent out of no where in a spot where I was fairly behind.
Getting more confident it should be a cube staple in cubes that support multiple cheaty creature strategies.
Arcane Proxy--
I'm sure great arcane proxy decks exist, but I've been dissapointed how rarely they've come together since we started testing it. Many times I've seen it with nothing great to flasback in a graveyard, or in decks with not enough targets (ultimately hitting the sideboard). Flashing back a cantrip is not a particularly powerful thing to be doing, so it really lives and dies with blue power and decks that have a variety of powerful cheap instant/sorceries. I'm likely "running bad" with it, but I do believe I over-estimated how often good arcane proxy decks get built.
Phyrexian Fleshgorger =
I've seen a lot of decks play it, it's looked good in deck building with the amount of synergies it has, but I haven't seen it perform that well yet.
Often the decks that end up with it aren't pressuring the opponent life total that well, so the ward hasn't been as good of a protection as I expected.
I think it'll ultimately end up as a synergy card, that thankfully interacts with a lot of decks. Still testing, but don't think it'll end up as anything special.
Teething wurmlet =
I was pretty high on this card for my cube, and I've played it in a few decks I thought it would be good in... but I was underwhelmed.
I think if your cube has many cheap artifacts and a considerable agressive slant to green it'll be really good. It beats down well and can gain a lot of life, but it doesn't do much toward a ramp/value oriented gameplan, which is what my green+artifact decks tend to be. I'm still testing, but I think theres a good chance itll get the axe within a year.
Does anyone have preliminary thoughts about card performance from this set so far?
Sure, I'll share.
Note: my 600 powered cube with duplicates has heavy artifact utility support with 2x welder, trash for treasure, Sai master thopterist, goblin engineer, kappa cannoneer etc. Dinky artifacts (trinkets) are better in my cube than most. I've been trying to support artifact decks that are more interesting than signet ramp + combo.
So far, the experiment has been a success.
Haywire Mite++
This card has been the quiet MVP of the set. Tutorable, artifact synergies, life gain, creature synergies, efficient non-creature removal.
It synergizes with many strategies and is good in so many matchups. My cube leverages this card more than most, so I can't guarantee it for every cube, but this little buddy has earned a spot in my cube for a long time. Every normal powered cube should be testing this card imo.
Phyrexain Dragon Engine+
it’s synergy with welder effects, specifically goblin engineer has proven to be quite powerful in my cube. I've entombed this with goblin engineer a few times and every time its felt very powerful. It turns goblin engineer into a must kill threat that leaves behind graveyard value. That combo alone makes dragon engine worth supporting IF and only IF you run goblin engineer. I wouldn't run it in typical cubes.
Legion to Ashses+
This has been a premium catch all, expensive removal spell. Exile is very relevant. I realize I've included so much cheap/conditional removal that there's been a demand for something that can hit more powerful/expensive targets. I've witnessed it be a key answer to 13 mana emrakul and 10 mana ulamog. Unsure how long it'll last, but it passed it's first test.
Misery's Shadow+
I had high hopes for this card and it's been everything I've wanted it to be. It put an insanely fast clock on me in a UB control deck. I saw it splashed in a red agro deck , help exile a kitchen finks and beat down to trade with a primeval titan!
A competitive, splashable , agressive 2 drop that is better than filler quality.
Bitter Reunion++
The more I play with this card the more I love it. The haste is so much more useful than I thought it would be. I had high hopes for reanimator and welder decks, but it's also been a solid playable in cheaty decks that don't use the graveyard. I had a channel/sneak attack deck where haste and card selection was at a premium.
Today I played it in a good stuff deck with a couple titans and it was a fine playable there too. I had inferno titan under shell dock isle and was able to hasty kill my opponent out of no where in a spot where I was fairly behind.
Getting more confident it should be a cube staple in cubes that support multiple cheaty creature strategies.
Arcane Proxy--
I'm sure great arcane proxy decks exist, but I've been dissapointed how rarely they've come together since we started testing it. Many times I've seen it with nothing great to flasback in a graveyard, or in decks with not enough targets (ultimately hitting the sideboard). Flashing back a cantrip is not a particularly powerful thing to be doing, so it really lives and dies with blue power and decks that have a variety of powerful cheap instant/sorceries. I'm likely "running bad" with it, but I do believe I over-estimated how often good arcane proxy decks get built.
Phyrexian Fleshgorger =
I've seen a lot of decks play it, it's looked good in deck building with the amount of synergies it has, but I haven't seen it perform that well yet.
Often the decks that end up with it aren't pressuring the opponent life total that well, so the ward hasn't been as good of a protection as I expected.
I think it'll ultimately end up as a synergy card, that thankfully interacts with a lot of decks. Still testing, but don't think it'll end up as anything special.
Teething wurmlet =
I was pretty high on this card for my cube, and I've played it in a few decks I thought it would be good in... but I was underwhelmed.
I think if your cube has many cheap artifacts and a considerable agressive slant to green it'll be really good. It beats down well and can gain a lot of life, but it doesn't do much toward a ramp/value oriented gameplan, which is what my green+artifact decks tend to be. I'm still testing, but I think theres a good chance itll get the axe within a year.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I've found that cube lists are all fairly tight these days and almost all of the non-combo slots are VERY competitive - I've found that there are probably 300+ cards that anyone can justify adding to their cube and I would probably agree with them. But here are my thoughts:
1. Teething Wurmlet is a bit less restricted than I thought - If you have just 4 artifacts in your deck, you have a 70% chance of turning it into a 2/2 on turn 3. If you have 8 artifacts in your deck, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 3/3 and if you have 12 artifacts, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 4/4. I think its a good card and can definitely has potential, but I think its slightly missing the cut for me.
2. Arcane Proxy/ Phyrexian Fleshgorger - I never felt they were doing anything broken and they both came with a bit of a deckbuilding constraint. I'm not too impressed by either.
3. Bitter Reunion - I'll look to give this a try, but my red section is a bit crowded.
4. Phyrexian Dragon Engine - I think its interaction with Goblin Engineer is good, but I think its still a not good enough.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Third Path Iconoclast, Loran of the Third Path, Teething Wurmlet, and Arcane Proxy have been the stand-out excellent cards from this set so far. I'm really impressed with all of them, especially Wurmlet and Proxy, which have played better than I expected them to. Iconoclast is a stone-cold staple, and Loran is very, very good.
Third Path Iconoclast, Loran of the Third Path, Teething Wurmlet, and Arcane Proxy have been the stand-out excellent cards from this set so far. I'm really impressed with all of them, especially Wurmlet and Proxy, which have played better than I expected them to. Iconoclast is a stone-cold staple, and Loran is very, very good.
Do you want to share which decks Arcane Proxy/ Teething were good in? They just felt like eh cards that occasionally could be broken with power 9.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Proxy has been stellar in spells matters shells, and Wurmlet is a great aggro creature. Basically, put them in shells where they're supposed to be good, and they're good.
Proxy has been stellar in spells matters shells, and Wurmlet is a great aggro creature. Basically, put them in shells where they're supposed to be good, and they're good.
Where would you rank Wurmlet in terms of Green Aggro 1 drops? My gut says below Packleader/ Hexdrinker/ Pelt Collector but above Wolfbitten captive and Experimental one. I'm not as on-board with green-aggro, but I've opening to adding more good green 1-drops as I've seen a lot of Green-X aggressive decks playing 2-3 mana dorks in addition to aggressive 1-drops to curve out 3-4 drop threats.
Arcane Proxy feels eh in a format filled with Oko/ Initiative/ Rabblemaster variants etc. I feel like there are much better things to do at 3 CMC.
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In a deck with the right saturation of cheap artifacts, Wurmlet is near the top of the rankings. In a less-than-optimal setup, it's near the bottom. Overall, it probably ranks somewhere in the middle, ya.
Same with Proxy. In a deck loaded with good proactive spells and cards that trigger off those re-casted spells, it's a stellar creature. In decks that don't match that description, it's obviously worse. In decks with the right spells in the right saturations, it competes as one of the best options to pick from in its color/cmc.
Does anyone have preliminary thoughts about card performance from this set so far?
Sure, I'll share.....
Thanks for your thoughts!
I've found that cube lists are all fairly tight these days and almost all of the non-combo slots are VERY competitive - I've found that there are probably 300+ cards that anyone can justify adding to their cube and I would probably agree with them. But here are my thoughts:
1. Teething Wurmlet is a bit less restricted than I thought - If you have just 4 artifacts in your deck, you have a 70% chance of turning it into a 2/2 on turn 3. If you have 8 artifacts in your deck, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 3/3 and if you have 12 artifacts, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 4/4. I think its a good card and can definitely has potential, but I think its slightly missing the cut for me.
2. Arcane Proxy/ Phyrexian Fleshgorger - I never felt they were doing anything broken and they both came with a bit of a deckbuilding constraint. I'm not too impressed by either.
3. Bitter Reunion - I'll look to give this a try, but my red section is a bit crowded.
4. Phyrexian Dragon Engine - I think its interaction with Goblin Engineer is good, but I think its still a not good enough.
Many of these cards' power is highly cube and deck dependent.
I was high on both teething wurmlet and arcane proxy, both disappointed, but only because they were more narrow than I anticipated.
In a deck that leverages their primary function, they are probably both stellar cards (hence WTWFL's different reaction).
Also, I've probably cubed 10? times since I proxied these cards, so the sample is still tiny. Sometimes you can get lot of information from a short play testing session with a card (I still remmeber when I first cast emrakul 13 and Oko), but most of the time, I need a lot of reps to have a strong opinion.
I’ve cast a lot of Steel Seraph now and it is a BANGER. Strongly suggest everyone at least test it unless your W sections is super offbeat.
Played it a few times in the MTGO vintage cube today and was a fan.
Think that limited sample and your suggestion is enough for me to test.
The ground gets clogged up in my cube easily, appreciating flying more and more these days.
Giving flying to something else or lifelink in a pinch is a really nice set of abilities to have
Sure, I'll share.
Note: my 600 powered cube with duplicates has heavy artifact utility support with 2x welder, trash for treasure, Sai master thopterist, goblin engineer, kappa cannoneer etc. Dinky artifacts (trinkets) are better in my cube than most. I've been trying to support artifact decks that are more interesting than signet ramp + combo.
So far, the experiment has been a success.
Haywire Mite ++
This card has been the quiet MVP of the set. Tutorable, artifact synergies, life gain, creature synergies, efficient non-creature removal.
It synergizes with many strategies and is good in so many matchups. My cube leverages this card more than most, so I can't guarantee it for every cube, but this little buddy has earned a spot in my cube for a long time. Every normal powered cube should be testing this card imo.
Phyrexain Dragon Engine +
it’s synergy with welder effects, specifically goblin engineer has proven to be quite powerful in my cube. I've entombed this with goblin engineer a few times and every time its felt very powerful. It turns goblin engineer into a must kill threat that leaves behind graveyard value. That combo alone makes dragon engine worth supporting IF and only IF you run goblin engineer. I wouldn't run it in typical cubes.
Legion to Ashses +
This has been a premium catch all, expensive removal spell. Exile is very relevant. I realize I've included so much cheap/conditional removal that there's been a demand for something that can hit more powerful/expensive targets. I've witnessed it be a key answer to 13 mana emrakul and 10 mana ulamog. Unsure how long it'll last, but it passed it's first test.
Misery's Shadow +
I had high hopes for this card and it's been everything I've wanted it to be. It put an insanely fast clock on me in a UB control deck. I saw it splashed in a red agro deck , help exile a kitchen finks and beat down to trade with a primeval titan!
A competitive, splashable , agressive 2 drop that is better than filler quality.
Bitter Reunion ++
The more I play with this card the more I love it. The haste is so much more useful than I thought it would be. I had high hopes for reanimator and welder decks, but it's also been a solid playable in cheaty decks that don't use the graveyard. I had a channel/sneak attack deck where haste and card selection was at a premium.
Today I played it in a good stuff deck with a couple titans and it was a fine playable there too. I had inferno titan under shell dock isle and was able to hasty kill my opponent out of no where in a spot where I was fairly behind.
Getting more confident it should be a cube staple in cubes that support multiple cheaty creature strategies.
Arcane Proxy --
I'm sure great arcane proxy decks exist, but I've been dissapointed how rarely they've come together since we started testing it. Many times I've seen it with nothing great to flasback in a graveyard, or in decks with not enough targets (ultimately hitting the sideboard). Flashing back a cantrip is not a particularly powerful thing to be doing, so it really lives and dies with blue power and decks that have a variety of powerful cheap instant/sorceries. I'm likely "running bad" with it, but I do believe I over-estimated how often good arcane proxy decks get built.
Phyrexian Fleshgorger =
I've seen a lot of decks play it, it's looked good in deck building with the amount of synergies it has, but I haven't seen it perform that well yet.
Often the decks that end up with it aren't pressuring the opponent life total that well, so the ward hasn't been as good of a protection as I expected.
I think it'll ultimately end up as a synergy card, that thankfully interacts with a lot of decks. Still testing, but don't think it'll end up as anything special.
Teething wurmlet =
I was pretty high on this card for my cube, and I've played it in a few decks I thought it would be good in... but I was underwhelmed.
I think if your cube has many cheap artifacts and a considerable agressive slant to green it'll be really good. It beats down well and can gain a lot of life, but it doesn't do much toward a ramp/value oriented gameplan, which is what my green+artifact decks tend to be. I'm still testing, but I think theres a good chance itll get the axe within a year.
Last Updated 02/06/23
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Thanks for your thoughts!
I've found that cube lists are all fairly tight these days and almost all of the non-combo slots are VERY competitive - I've found that there are probably 300+ cards that anyone can justify adding to their cube and I would probably agree with them. But here are my thoughts:
1. Teething Wurmlet is a bit less restricted than I thought - If you have just 4 artifacts in your deck, you have a 70% chance of turning it into a 2/2 on turn 3. If you have 8 artifacts in your deck, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 3/3 and if you have 12 artifacts, you have a 65% chance to turn it into a 4/4. I think its a good card and can definitely has potential, but I think its slightly missing the cut for me.
2. Arcane Proxy/ Phyrexian Fleshgorger - I never felt they were doing anything broken and they both came with a bit of a deckbuilding constraint. I'm not too impressed by either.
3. Bitter Reunion - I'll look to give this a try, but my red section is a bit crowded.
4. Phyrexian Dragon Engine - I think its interaction with Goblin Engineer is good, but I think its still a not good enough.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Recruitment Officer, Razorlash Transmogrant, Transmogrant's Crown, and Misery's Shadow have all played as expected, which is quite solid.
Overall, BRO was a really good cube set.
My 540 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 45th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from ONE!
Do you want to share which decks Arcane Proxy/ Teething were good in? They just felt like eh cards that occasionally could be broken with power 9.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 540 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 45th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from ONE!
Where would you rank Wurmlet in terms of Green Aggro 1 drops? My gut says below Packleader/ Hexdrinker/ Pelt Collector but above Wolfbitten captive and Experimental one. I'm not as on-board with green-aggro, but I've opening to adding more good green 1-drops as I've seen a lot of Green-X aggressive decks playing 2-3 mana dorks in addition to aggressive 1-drops to curve out 3-4 drop threats.
Arcane Proxy feels eh in a format filled with Oko/ Initiative/ Rabblemaster variants etc. I feel like there are much better things to do at 3 CMC.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Same with Proxy. In a deck loaded with good proactive spells and cards that trigger off those re-casted spells, it's a stellar creature. In decks that don't match that description, it's obviously worse. In decks with the right spells in the right saturations, it competes as one of the best options to pick from in its color/cmc.
My 540 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 45th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from ONE!
Many of these cards' power is highly cube and deck dependent.
I was high on both teething wurmlet and arcane proxy, both disappointed, but only because they were more narrow than I anticipated.
In a deck that leverages their primary function, they are probably both stellar cards (hence WTWFL's different reaction).
Also, I've probably cubed 10? times since I proxied these cards, so the sample is still tiny. Sometimes you can get lot of information from a short play testing session with a card (I still remmeber when I first cast emrakul 13 and Oko), but most of the time, I need a lot of reps to have a strong opinion.
All reasonable thoughts!
Last Updated 02/06/23
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Played it a few times in the MTGO vintage cube today and was a fan.
Think that limited sample and your suggestion is enough for me to test.
The ground gets clogged up in my cube easily, appreciating flying more and more these days.
Giving flying to something else or lifelink in a pinch is a really nice set of abilities to have
Last Updated 02/06/23
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg