I know Mergatroid_Jones has made an almost-playable thread with this card in it, but it might just be better than expected. This is a decent amount of value for a 3-drop - similar to Seasoned Pyromancer. You get 2 2/2s, some ramp, and rummaging for 3 mana. The discount Kiki can still go infinite with a mana dork and Village Bell-Ringer. It probably won't make the leanest of cubes, but is a worthy consideration of more synergy-focused or larger cubes.
What's funny is that even without the infinite, you can still "go off" with enough mana. While there's decent value to be had, this is a bit too slow for me, especially since the back half doesn't have haste.
Better than Pyro imo, I think this will prove strong enough for most cubes. The backside doesn’t go infinite but is basically a must kill threat nevertheless which is pretty sick considering that the first two chapters are already sort of close.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Although each of the individual pieces are on the weaker side, I think this a really versatile card that has a shot of working. The token can trade, rummaging helps you develop Welder and reanimator plans (or just dig for answers), and I agree that even this version of Kiki-Jiki is a must-kill. If I'm on a Pestermite combo plan, having even a terrible third enabler is still welcome should my Kiki/Twin get sniped by removal. But even if it's just grindy value, even just a tempo deck, I think there's potential there. I suspect supporting all of the above is what gives the card its potential - if some of those components are missing in your list, it's probably much less appealing.
I don't see why I'd play this over Hanweir Garrison / Krenko as a 3 mana creature that rewards me with value for tapping it sideways.
well, it’s radically better that either of those vs removal. It’s more of a history of benalia sort of card with multiple decent bodies over time — getting a rummage 2 the next turn after drawing really ties the value together.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
This is a one card enabler for artifact reanimation, you get both the rummage and the artifact to sacrifice! It's also yet another enabler for red polymorph decks, as it gives you a token and even digs you to a polymorph effect.
This card reads much better than it plays. It creates 2 2/2, decent stats for an aggro deck or to block with. It creates a token that can be used for twin combo. It discards for reanimation.
The truth is that an aggro deck doesn't want its three drop to be a 2/2, and then get a another 2/2 at the fifth turn that can attack at the sixth turn. You hope to have killed your opponent before then. Same logic applies to why it is a *****ty blocker. Reanimation decks aren't looking to spend 3 mana to have a delayed discard effect. And the twin combo aspect costs mana and is telegrapthed 3 turns ahead.
Having your three drop becoming active at turn 6 is really a huge downside.
I think that card will play in midrange decks with lot ETB creatures, or more specifically in blink UWx archetypes. Therefore I beliave this is narrow, but fun card mostly for unpowered environments.
This card feels like a "decent everywhere, not stellar anywhere":
- Tiny bit too slow for Reanimator
- Decent Enabler for Polymorph
- Decent Enabler for Twin/ Intruder Alarm
- Decent Enabler for Storm with the Treasure/ Looting
- Decent Enabler for Blink
I'll be doing some work to see if this will help improve the Temur Twin shell.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Our playgroup is at a point now that the 3 mana creatures that fail vindicate tests have started to get really unimpressive. Hanweir Garrison is likely the cut for us, and although 3cmc can bee a little late for reanimator pitches, and this doesn't look particularly playable in artifact ramp, just being able to slot into more decks and be better vs boardwipes as a Seasoned Pyromancer-lite is good enough for us. I'm not super impressed, but depending on your deck that new Kiki can still act as a must-kill threat strapped to a 2/2.
Lots of value, makes tokens, fits half-decently into a few archetypes, etc. We'll be testing this.
After deciding to cut a cycle of lands at 540 (which were going to be the triomes), I had two free slots for each color. I'm going to give this a spin since one of the blue cards I'm adding is Intruder Alarm. While this is cute as a fair Kiki-Twin combo piece, I'm also trying to bolster red's midrange game, and I think this fits the bill. This kind of reminds me of Feldon of the Third Path as a 3-drop, but it copies a creature in play instead of the graveyard, is less vulnerable to removal, and has way more utility.
Given it's strong performance at Neon Dynasty worlds, I'm going to test this card. People were splashing for it in decks where it didn't have incredible synergy, which is a good sign.
I watched some games, and the format seemed grindy without decks that go way over the top... That type of environment is where a slow value card would thrive, very much unlike cube.
That being said...Treasure tokens, discard outlets and ETB abuse effects are all great in cube.
I wrote it off initially because it's bad in two major red archetypes (red agro and ramp), but it should play nice in Kiki-jiki decks , 3+ color value decks, creature tool box decks or in decks desperate for discard outlets.
Mode 1 -> Card is worth ~1.25 mana (scales poor with late game)
Mode 2 -> Card is worth ~0.5 mana (scales ok with late game)
Mode 3 -> Card is worth ~2.25 mana (scales well with late game)
~3 cards of value, with some of those cards on suspend and the initial mode effecting the battlefield.
My guess is it's mid+ sized cubebale power level, but won't stand the test of time.
This card is somewhat similar to Seasoned Pyromancer but slower and better synergies. So far we like it more than the non-haste “army in a can” guys like Hanweir Garrison which have aged poorly for us in the past 2 years.
After deciding to cut a cycle of lands at 540 (which were going to be the triomes), I had two free slots for each color. I'm going to give this a spin since one of the blue cards I'm adding is Intruder Alarm. While this is cute as a fair Kiki-Twin combo piece, I'm also trying to bolster red's midrange game, and I think this fits the bill. This kind of reminds me of Feldon of the Third Path as a 3-drop, but it copies a creature in play instead of the graveyard, is less vulnerable to removal, and has way more utility.
In testing Intruder Alarm was a weak twin enabler and was only really competitive in a Temur Twin Variant with Vannifar/ Kiki etc.
Anybody tried this in cube? It's generating some talk in constructed formats. Red 3 drops are so stacked though.
EDIT: Wow those posts right above mine weren't showing when I posted mine. Looking forward to the testing results.
If you have Divergent Transformations, Red Flicker, Reanimator, Storm playable, backup Twin combo pieces etc. then I think this is a good playable. But it really wasn't that strong on its own and was frequently the 23-24th card. I wouldn't recommend playing this unless you have most or all of the above archetype.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
If III always trades fro a removal spell you’re getting pretty excellent value for your 3 mana overall. I think this performed reasonably well in the mtgo vintage cube and I expect it will grow in Modern popularity soon. An easily castabke card with a lot of play, substantial card value, and reasonable tempo value.
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Anyone have more testing results from this? It seems like it was underestimated in Constructed and I'm wondering if that's the case with Cube too. Its now one of the top 10 most played cards in Pioneer and I've heard its basically game over if chapter III isn't immediately killed.
It's been good the few times I've seen it. The gift that keeps giving. Chapter I is almost worth 2R anyway. After that, everything is just a bonus. Destroy the saga and they still keep the goblin. Destroy the goblin and they still have the saga.
I've never seen Reflection of Kiki-Jiki do anything other than die, but that's fine. You've gotten well over your mana's worth by then. I will say this: it's very dubious to use this as an extra Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker effect.
Anyone have more testing results from this? It seems like it was underestimated in Constructed and I'm wondering if that's the case with Cube too. Its now one of the top 10 most played cards in Pioneer and I've heard its basically game over if chapter III isn't immediately killed.
Yeah, I've seen it in action a half dozen times in cube now as well as dozens of times in constructed... card is great. I basically slam it in every deck that can cast it and isn't a red agro deck... Even in agro it's a low priority playable.
It's showing up everywhere, I figure it has to be worth a go. Finding cuts at 3 in red is very tough, though. The most similar card is Seasoned Pyromancer but I'm sort of loathe to cut that.
I know Mergatroid_Jones has made an almost-playable thread with this card in it, but it might just be better than expected. This is a decent amount of value for a 3-drop - similar to Seasoned Pyromancer. You get 2 2/2s, some ramp, and rummaging for 3 mana. The discount Kiki can still go infinite with a mana dork and Village Bell-Ringer. It probably won't make the leanest of cubes, but is a worthy consideration of more synergy-focused or larger cubes.
I also like that it slides into the red treasure archetype.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Not many obvious homes for it tho.
prob too slow
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
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Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
well, it’s radically better that either of those vs removal. It’s more of a history of benalia sort of card with multiple decent bodies over time — getting a rummage 2 the next turn after drawing really ties the value together.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
The truth is that an aggro deck doesn't want its three drop to be a 2/2, and then get a another 2/2 at the fifth turn that can attack at the sixth turn. You hope to have killed your opponent before then. Same logic applies to why it is a *****ty blocker. Reanimation decks aren't looking to spend 3 mana to have a delayed discard effect. And the twin combo aspect costs mana and is telegrapthed 3 turns ahead.
Having your three drop becoming active at turn 6 is really a huge downside.
- Tiny bit too slow for Reanimator
- Decent Enabler for Polymorph
- Decent Enabler for Twin/ Intruder Alarm
- Decent Enabler for Storm with the Treasure/ Looting
- Decent Enabler for Blink
I'll be doing some work to see if this will help improve the Temur Twin shell.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Lots of value, makes tokens, fits half-decently into a few archetypes, etc. We'll be testing this.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I watched some games, and the format seemed grindy without decks that go way over the top... That type of environment is where a slow value card would thrive, very much unlike cube.
That being said...Treasure tokens, discard outlets and ETB abuse effects are all great in cube.
I wrote it off initially because it's bad in two major red archetypes (red agro and ramp), but it should play nice in Kiki-jiki decks , 3+ color value decks, creature tool box decks or in decks desperate for discard outlets.
Mode 1 -> Card is worth ~1.25 mana (scales poor with late game)
Mode 2 -> Card is worth ~0.5 mana (scales ok with late game)
Mode 3 -> Card is worth ~2.25 mana (scales well with late game)
~3 cards of value, with some of those cards on suspend and the initial mode effecting the battlefield.
My guess is it's mid+ sized cubebale power level, but won't stand the test of time.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
EDIT: Wow those posts right above mine weren't showing when I posted mine. Looking forward to the testing results.
In testing Intruder Alarm was a weak twin enabler and was only really competitive in a Temur Twin Variant with Vannifar/ Kiki etc.
If you have Divergent Transformations, Red Flicker, Reanimator, Storm playable, backup Twin combo pieces etc. then I think this is a good playable. But it really wasn't that strong on its own and was frequently the 23-24th card. I wouldn't recommend playing this unless you have most or all of the above archetype.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Only had one showing so far, so limited results. Here's what the pilot messaged me on Discord when I asked him how it played out last night:
- It was only the chapter 2 card draw that really did anything that draft.
- The chapter 3 creature always got removed before I was able to activate it.
- There was a game where I almost got to use it on huntmaster or wurmcoil though.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
I've never seen Reflection of Kiki-Jiki do anything other than die, but that's fine. You've gotten well over your mana's worth by then. I will say this: it's very dubious to use this as an extra Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker effect.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Yeah, I've seen it in action a half dozen times in cube now as well as dozens of times in constructed... card is great. I basically slam it in every deck that can cast it and isn't a red agro deck... Even in agro it's a low priority playable.
It's a staple in my eyes
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: