Side-grade to Inqisition of Kozilek that's worse against 3CMC cards, but gives you an option to hit the 4+CMC cards that Inquisition can't. Seems reasonable for cube?
I think this is a trap. So many 3cmc bombs these days, missing 3 on an Inquisition is huge. If the cleave cost were 1B I think this would have been an awesome card. As-is it seems too bad on the draw.
I'm interested in this. Not sure it'll stick, but I'm interested in trying it over Duress. I think it is likely worse than IoK, because you probably want to be firing it off on t1 as the default, but Duress can be awkward in some matchups.
I'm going to wait - I could see this being decent.
Fatal Push/ Bloodchief's thirst is 2 CMC or less as well with a revolt/ trigger.
I find discard suffers from what I call the Arcane Denial type evaluation - Arcane Denial is a good card and good enough to make it into the cube, but people compare it to similar cards like, Counterspell, Mana Leak, Remand, Mana Drain which are all within the top 50 vintage cube cards.
Similarly, i feel black discard suffer from the same evaluation.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think this is a trap. So many 3cmc bombs these days, missing 3 on an Inquisition is huge. If the cleave cost were 1B I think this would have been an awesome card. As-is it seems too bad on the draw.
These are my thoughts, though I'd be quite happy at even a cleave of 2B.
Not a bad card, but a far cry from IoK which, while a good card, is a clear step below duress/thoughtseize in cube.
Edit: LOL I read the card as 3B for cleave, not sure if I was looking at another version or how my brain did that?
My post contradicted itself as read. At 2B cleave, this card is good and I look forward to testing it
I'm interested in this. Not sure it'll stick, but I'm interested in trying it over Duress. I think it is likely worse than IoK, because you probably want to be firing it off on t1 as the default, but Duress can be awkward in some matchups.
I think we need to be playing more black discard as a whole for cube.
This is a bit off topic - but I notice you have intruder alarm but none of the tap make a token creatures. Are you just having this as a backup Pestermite?
On a different topic - Bedlam Reveler might finally be able to make an appearance with all these cheap 1-2 CMC instants/ sorceries.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think this is one of the best discard spells singleton Cubes have access to, just behind Thoughtseize, IOK, and maybeDuress depending upon format composition. There are a wealth of great low-drops to grab with this when casting it for 1, and the fact that it can be cleaved means that it can function as a more expensive thoughtseize in the late game when you have extra mana floating around.
This card might end up being a sleeper. I suggest picking up at least one copy.
2 CMC seems like more than enough to grab most important early game spells and disruption. That's enough to hit power, most counterspells, most early aggressive creatures, a good portion of removal, the cheap tutors, and even a whole bunch of mana dorks, mana rocks, reanimation spells, and other powerful but more archetype specific cards.
The 3-mana failsafe seems great too. I'm happy to spend extra mana probing around for whatever I want later in the game when I have the mana to waste. And all of that not even to mention that it's technically another discard outlet for reanimator. 3 mana really isn't that much for a Griselbrand in the bin...
How's this performing in your cubes? IMHO this has felt unimpressive but I think that an unimpressive version of this effect is still better than most other interaction in a powered cube, especially in black.
I agree with the sentiment, but not hitting 3 CMC is a bit of a problem for me.
I don't think its reasonable for people to keep hands without 2 CMC or lower on the draw. (Prob not gonna whiff on the play).
My problem is I feel this situation is a bit to common - You're on the draw, your opponent plays a 1 drop mana dork, moxen into 2 drop, 1 drop. (Or they keep a hand on the play without a 2 CMC or lower play). They do not have another spell that is 2 CMC or lower.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I definitely underrated this card. Even if it whiffs a lot and the 2B mode isn’t that great, the win-factor upside of hitting something critical on turn 1 makes it a worthy inclusion. Cube curve is also more efficient than it used to be.
Side-grade to Inqisition of Kozilek that's worse against 3CMC cards, but gives you an option to hit the 4+CMC cards that Inquisition can't. Seems reasonable for cube?
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Fatal Push/ Bloodchief's thirst is 2 CMC or less as well with a revolt/ trigger.
I find discard suffers from what I call the Arcane Denial type evaluation - Arcane Denial is a good card and good enough to make it into the cube, but people compare it to similar cards like, Counterspell, Mana Leak, Remand, Mana Drain which are all within the top 50 vintage cube cards.
Similarly, i feel black discard suffer from the same evaluation.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
These are my thoughts, though I'd be quite happy at even a cleave of 2B.
Not a bad card, but a far cry from IoK which, while a good card, is a clear step below duress/thoughtseize in cube.
Edit: LOL I read the card as 3B for cleave, not sure if I was looking at another version or how my brain did that?
My post contradicted itself as read. At 2B cleave, this card is good and I look forward to testing it
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I think it is worth a test if you want to go beyond Duress, Thoughtseize and IoK.
On the draw, turn 2 is the worst window for it, because you cannot discard the 3 drop that is coming.
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I think we need to be playing more black discard as a whole for cube.
This is a bit off topic - but I notice you have intruder alarm but none of the tap make a token creatures. Are you just having this as a backup Pestermite?
On a different topic - Bedlam Reveler might finally be able to make an appearance with all these cheap 1-2 CMC instants/ sorceries.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This card might end up being a sleeper. I suggest picking up at least one copy.
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2 CMC seems like more than enough to grab most important early game spells and disruption. That's enough to hit power, most counterspells, most early aggressive creatures, a good portion of removal, the cheap tutors, and even a whole bunch of mana dorks, mana rocks, reanimation spells, and other powerful but more archetype specific cards.
The 3-mana failsafe seems great too. I'm happy to spend extra mana probing around for whatever I want later in the game when I have the mana to waste. And all of that not even to mention that it's technically another discard outlet for reanimator. 3 mana really isn't that much for a Griselbrand in the bin...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I agree with the sentiment, but not hitting 3 CMC is a bit of a problem for me.
I don't think its reasonable for people to keep hands without 2 CMC or lower on the draw. (Prob not gonna whiff on the play).
My problem is I feel this situation is a bit to common - You're on the draw, your opponent plays a 1 drop mana dork, moxen into 2 drop, 1 drop. (Or they keep a hand on the play without a 2 CMC or lower play). They do not have another spell that is 2 CMC or lower.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i