MTG Salvation

Wrong subforum my dude...

I'm looking at my 540 trying to find a way to justify its inclusion.

Doing mental gymnastics to try and include it. This T 2 off dark ritual? Or T 1 with a mox and dark ritual?

Not being abusable I think is more of a negative than the cost. We are trying for recursion/ reanimate/ sacrifice theme in B and this fits none of those.

It does fit a discard theme which B is also about. Random discard can be brutal and discard spells have definitely won quite a few games (even the non-Mind Twist ones).

This seems like a card that I will try really hard to test because I love the flavor and the callback and the discard but likely won't be good enough to stay in the Cube long term.

Sigh.

Every few sets a card comes along that I really want to shoehorn into the Cube even though my gut tells me it isn't good enough and this card is exactly that for me.

Hoping to find space to test it.

They also just printed Grief which I like a lot more but these kind of effects are really cool.

I think the best way to think of this card is a 1BBB 4/3 that hymns them that you will almost never cast as a 2/1 and that you probably won't get relevantly bigger than a 4/3 very often either. Is that good enough? The mana cost sucks, but a 3-for-1 is real and if you're casting it on turn 4 there's a good chance their hand is smaller so you have a better chance of hitting more expensive, high-impact spells. I really like it on the play in aggro too because you get to have a chance at hitting their wrath/board stabilizing planeswalker. I will definitely test this card, although the 1BBB mana cost might kill it.

Hymn to Tourach is broken. Hymn plus this creature attached to it for 1B more mana is still really good. This is +2 card advantage when kicked.

Card looks powerful, and I love the Karakas synergy, but I think triple black is just too prohibitive of a cost. If it was only double black I'd be all over this.

I love it! Agree that 1BBB is tough but the payoff seems worth it in this case, and I think I can support greedy mana bases.

I'm into this card. The passive +1/+1 triggers off all sorts aside from your own discard; Lootings, Dack, Survival, Hallowblade triggers, Wheels. The four mana mode seems extremely strong - 4/3 double random discard trigger for 4 is immense, and I can accept the 1BBB cost here since there's a failsafe mode with only 1B needed. I'll definitely be trying out Tourach.

1BBB for a 3-for-1 that develops the board is a sweet deal. The problem is that it requires your opponent to have at least 2 cards in hand, which means you have to be able to cast this within a certain time frame to get max value. If Tourach only hits one card, it's no longer good enough. Given the prohibitive mana and timing restrictions, I'm unwilling to play him over any of Black's current suite of 4-drops.

So what of Tourach's "fail" case? Well, a 2 mana 2/1 with protection from White that grows from your opponent's looting effects is not the worst. It can cause a headache for quite a variety of decks--Wx, reanimator, UB/UR. The competition among Black 2-drops isn't that cutthroat, so a serviceable creature which can be kicked for massive upside can definitely break into that slot. If we compare Tourach to Nullpriest of Oblivion, you're trading a slightly worse floor for a far stronger kicked mode. The biggest hurdle for Tourach will be having to decide whether to cast him or hold him when your mana base is incomplete.

1BBB is just so rough to get on curve. Many decks won't be able to consistently hit that until late enough that your opponent could be empty-handed. This feels like another close-but-not-quite-there card. I also like Grief more and that card is borderline, imo, and I don't know if there's room for both.

Pro white is a very powerful keyword, on top of a strong value creature.

BBB is a problem , and it can be oppressive vs white Agro which I don’t love.

Not sure I’ll test him or not.. but certainly a consideration on power level alone.

Card has been fantastic. We've been pushing an emphasis on heavy black cards in my Cube (not devotion). Tourach and Dauthi Voidwalker are great recent cards that reward heavy black. This card is also nuts off Dark Ritual.

Last night I went turn 3 Hymn to Tourach into turn 5 kicked Tourach, Dread Cantor. It was as amazing as it sounds. This deck only had 9 black sources so even when the mana isn't great sometimes you can still get to 1BBB.

My opponent and I both remarked how happy we are with how well Tourach has played.

Worth testing this (and Dark Ritual if you're not running it) in 540 for sure and possibly smaller Cubes.

Great to hear! I've run it a few times in the latest MTGO modern cube and haven't gotten the kicker to happen yet, but I really like the card so it's nice to hear about your experience!

This card is the definition of on the fence for me so I'm probably going to wait for further testing feedback from others before buying on this one.

I hosted a cube draft recently and this card was very strong - kicking it feels Mind Twist levels dirty.

It's fun to play in mtgo modern cube. I usually cast it with kicker, and have felt bad the one time I played it without the kicker. Very powerful when you can play it turn 4, and great for aggressive black decks.