Abundant Harvest G
Sorcery
Choose land or nonland. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of the chosen kind. Put that card into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
This looks like a pretty good cantrip. Guaranteed to find a land when you need it, and helps skip past lands when you don't. Maybe not in Preordain/Ponder levels of cantrips, but still pretty good, especially for green.
I've long been on the hunt for the great green Brainstorm, and now with Once Upon a Time, Oath of Nissa, and this, we're finally starting to have options. I'm all about it. I think it's probably a bit better than Opt for selection, which isn't bad for green.
Oath of Nissa and Traverse the Ulvenwald have both been very good cards, but I cut them from my cube because I've found that decks frequently cut them from their 40 because they have too many playables.
I personally think both Wild Growth/ Utopia Sprawl are both good green 1 CMC ramp, in addition to the 9-10 mana dorks. This is probably good enough to make it into my cube, but its just the competition for every card slot is so damn high right now ...
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So it's a 1-time abundance? Seems substantially worse than both OUaT and Oath of Nissa, but if you want a 3rd green cantrip, I guess this will do? I like that it can let you keep a 1-land hand, but it's so low impact I don't want to take a slot on it, especially where green spells matters decks aren't really a thing.
I think it's probably a bit better than Opt for selection, which isn't bad for green.
This. Cantrips help us find what we need at any given time, which is usually either mana or some sort of business spell. This guaranteeing a land when you need a land and not a land when you don't need a land is huge. Unlike OuaT / Oath of Nissa, this can slot into ANY green deck, not just creature heavy decks.
I think it's probably a bit better than Opt for selection, which isn't bad for green.
This. Cantrips help us find what we need at any given time, which is usually either mana or some sort of business spell. This guaranteeing a land when you need a land and not a land when you don't need a land is huge. Unlike OuaT / Oath of Nissa, this can slot into ANY green deck, not just creature heavy decks.
This. I can play this spell in green decks that wouldn't be interested in the other two. Which was too many of my green decks. Which is why the other ones didn't pan out for me.
How many green decks are you guys playing that don't have a fair number of creatures? I guess oath and OUAT don't go in, like, oath decks, but that's a pretty small percentage of decks in my experience. Maybe it's different in powered.
On balance, I think I'd rather have the chance to see 3 or 4 cards and pick one than just get whatever the top spell of my deck is. Yeah, this shines when you use it to get a land and are able to keep a hand you wouldn't have been able to otherwise, but Oath and OUAT will usually find a land anyway.
Most green decks would happily play this card, but it's basically air. It's so low impact.
How many green decks are you guys playing that don't have a fair number of creatures? I guess oath and OUAT don't go in, like, oath decks, but that's a pretty small percentage of decks in my experience. Maybe it's different in powered.
Oath / Cheaty Face decks, a good amount of Channel decks, decks just splashing for a few green cards like Oko, a lot of good stuff piles, etc. There are plenty of green decks that I don't necessarily jam something like Survival of the Fittest.
Most green decks would happily play this card, but it's basically air. It's so low impact.
I think this is very close to Preordain, which is a stone cold staple in pretty much every cube. I think people are vastly underestimating this by comparing it to Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time and not to Preordain.
Interesting discrepancy in opinions here. I'm not really as excited for the card as most are here, but maybe I'm wrong.
While it always gives you the type you need, you just get any of that type. So no mana-fixing insurance for lands and no relevancy in spells for nonland. Also, if I splash green in a deck, I'm not sure I want a CMC 1 cantrip in that deck. If green is my main color, OuaT has served me well enough so far, which either means I want more green carddraw or am saturated. I'm leaning towards the latter - I just think the card is not needed.
How many green decks are you guys playing that don't have a fair number of creatures? I guess oath and OUAT don't go in, like, oath decks, but that's a pretty small percentage of decks in my experience. Maybe it's different in powered.
Oath / Cheaty Face decks, a good amount of Channel decks, decks just splashing for a few green cards like Oko, a lot of good stuff piles, etc. There are plenty of green decks that I don't necessarily jam something like Survival of the Fittest.
Most green decks would happily play this card, but it's basically air. It's so low impact.
I think this is very close to Preordain, which is a stone cold staple in pretty much every cube. I think people are vastly underestimating this by comparing it to Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time and not to Preordain.
But blue has a lot of cards that reward you for casting cards like preordain, and lots of ways to cast it from the yard. Plus, a lot of blue decks don't have t1 plays, which makes it more likely you want to spend your t1 casting preordain instead of an elf.
And in channel, cheatyface, etc decks (beyond ones using oath) you're often happy trying to hit a creature - it's a sac target for natural order, or you hit your eldrazi for channel, etc. So you like OUaT since it's free and can hit creatures.
Maybe I'm wrong about this card but it just feels so, so meh. And FWIW I don't think it's remotely close to preordain. Preordain lets you get info on 2 cards, and dig 3 deep if you're looking for a specific effect.
But blue has a lot of cards that reward you for casting cards like preordain, and lots of ways to cast it from the yard.
Even without synergy, Preordain is still solid on its own. I don't think the synergy aspect matters here since neither Preordain / Abundant Harvest are reliant on any other cards. Synergy does matter for Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time though. Typically my rule of thumb is if I don't have the critical mass to play Survival of the Fittest in my deck, then Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time are also out.
And in channel, cheatyface, etc decks (beyond ones using oath) you're often happy trying to hit a creature
If I'm a Natural Order deck, sure that deck naturally has a healthy critical mass of creatures. My Channel / Oath of Druids / Show and Tell / etc decks usually don't have the critical mass of creatures to make Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time consistent.
If I'm a Natural Order deck, sure that deck naturally has a healthy critical mass of creatures. My Channel / Oath of Druids / Show and Tell / etc decks usually don't have the critical mass of creatures to make Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time consistent.
But you'll likely hit a land then, so it's not a stone whiff. And yeah you just don't play oath or OUaT if you have no creatures. And while this card is slightly better in those decks, it's never gonna be great in any deck IMO.
This is what I love about cube. Wildly different opinions on even a card as simple as this.
I have to agree with asmallcat that this card is too low impact.
A card either needs to have high raw power or synergy with an archetype to make it nowadays. This has neither. Sure, it's never a bad card but I feel like it's the type of card that ends up being your last cut because it doesn't add enough to your deck.
i think you guys are missing the point here, this card literally fits into ANY deck playing green & its always going to be something that you want, easy as that, for a G. have it early, cash it in for a land. draw it late, get a walker or an artifact, creature, whatever... this thing is SO MUCH BETTER than a top-decked mana dork
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but with a critical mass of these types of effects, you can start shaving lands. That means that late game you are drawing more gas because you have so many smoothing effects.
There is an article by Mike Flores talking about the Xerox theory ("UB trippin' ").
i think you guys are missing the point here, this card literally fits into ANY deck playing green & its always going to be something that you want, easy as that, for a G. have it early, cash it in for a land. draw it late, get a walker or an artifact, creature, whatever... this thing is SO MUCH BETTER than a top-decked mana dork
Thus returning us to the classic cube conundrum - is a card that is fine in every deck, but good to great in none, a card you wanna cube with? Should every white section be running flagstones of trokair because every white deck will run it even though it's like 1% better than a plains (note - I think this card is substantially better than flagstones, it's just my go-to example for the "this card goes in every deck" question)?
I don't think a cantrip with selection is as low impact as people are suggesting. It's a low cost ability on a low cost card, but a Preordain effect is often eventually the thing that decides a game. It's just more subtle about it than Lightning Bolt.
i think you guys are missing the point here, this card literally fits into ANY deck playing green & its always going to be something that you want, easy as that, for a G. have it early, cash it in for a land. draw it late, get a walker or an artifact, creature, whatever... this thing is SO MUCH BETTER than a top-decked mana dork
Thus returning us to the classic cube conundrum - is a card that is fine in every deck, but good to great in none, a card you wanna cube with? Should every white section be running flagstones of trokair because every white deck will run it even though it's like 1% better than a plains (note - I think this card is substantially better than flagstones, it's just my go-to example for the "this card goes in every deck" question)?
@ asmallcat - when it gives you this effect, the answer is a resounding yes. think of the cards available in cube, they are the best of the best. so if i need mana to cast said cards, Abundant Harvest is gonna help me do that. But if i have the mana & need 1 of those "botb" cards, AH is going to help w/ that as well. whats not to like? as for ur "flagstone" example, it really doesnt hold up here b/c we're not drafting basic lands. if a random "flagstones" was in your land station as a useable option, then of course ppl are going to put it into their decks, but no 1 who isnt playing white or playing a lands matter theme is going to bother picking it from a pack. if ur still not convinced, play this over ur worst mana dork & see how much you like it. (i would pick this over any mana dork, except noble hierarch, & that is pack dependent. if its early & i'm playing a ramp deck, then i'd go w/ the Noble, but if its late in the draft & i've alrdy got alot of the pieces, i'd probably take the AH b/c it serves either function.)
or here's another way to look @ it. i've long argued that preordain needs to be restricted in vintage b/c the cards are just too powerful in that format to give players that type of card selection, then the draw effect. Cube is similarly in that vein, of the cards being really good, & AH allows you a degree of control over getting what you want.
I'm slamming this into my unpowered cube and hoping for the best. I'm always on the hunt for more playable green noncreature spells and I'm gonna take a chance on this one.
Think this card is meh and not at all the second coming of preordain.
1 mana is a big cost for minor card selection. If you digging to lands early that’s a big cost. If you digging to spells late it isn’t, but not being able to dig more than 1 is a big deal. Especially when your mana sources are often non-land permanents.
Don’t have time to extrapolate more, but I predict it’s way worse than ouat and slightly worse than oath of nissa.
I’m on team Steve_man here. OUAT is awkward since you often have to pay 2, Oath is awkward since it can both whiff on land when you want land and action when you want action. This is a great cantrip in G. You could pass on it if you don’t want to dedicate slots to “low impact” cards but it you do that and you’re playing them in U there!s a bit of dissonance there.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
To try this I would either need it to be an instant or have any spells matters cards in green. This would see play in plent of U/G and R/G and even B/G decks as a back up if they don't get better draw in their colors or for more density but it doesn't just need to be better than Oath for me, it would need to be a lot better.
Card probably plays quite well but there are lots of 'plays quite well' cards don't include
Abundant Harvest G
Sorcery
Choose land or nonland. Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of the chosen kind. Put that card into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
This looks like a pretty good cantrip. Guaranteed to find a land when you need it, and helps skip past lands when you don't. Maybe not in Preordain/Ponder levels of cantrips, but still pretty good, especially for green.
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I personally think both Wild Growth/ Utopia Sprawl are both good green 1 CMC ramp, in addition to the 9-10 mana dorks. This is probably good enough to make it into my cube, but its just the competition for every card slot is so damn high right now ...
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
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2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
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This. Cantrips help us find what we need at any given time, which is usually either mana or some sort of business spell. This guaranteeing a land when you need a land and not a land when you don't need a land is huge. Unlike OuaT / Oath of Nissa, this can slot into ANY green deck, not just creature heavy decks.
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This. I can play this spell in green decks that wouldn't be interested in the other two. Which was too many of my green decks. Which is why the other ones didn't pan out for me.
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On balance, I think I'd rather have the chance to see 3 or 4 cards and pick one than just get whatever the top spell of my deck is. Yeah, this shines when you use it to get a land and are able to keep a hand you wouldn't have been able to otherwise, but Oath and OUAT will usually find a land anyway.
Most green decks would happily play this card, but it's basically air. It's so low impact.
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Oath / Cheaty Face decks, a good amount of Channel decks, decks just splashing for a few green cards like Oko, a lot of good stuff piles, etc. There are plenty of green decks that I don't necessarily jam something like Survival of the Fittest.
I think this is very close to Preordain, which is a stone cold staple in pretty much every cube. I think people are vastly underestimating this by comparing it to Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time and not to Preordain.
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While it always gives you the type you need, you just get any of that type. So no mana-fixing insurance for lands and no relevancy in spells for nonland. Also, if I splash green in a deck, I'm not sure I want a CMC 1 cantrip in that deck. If green is my main color, OuaT has served me well enough so far, which either means I want more green carddraw or am saturated. I'm leaning towards the latter - I just think the card is not needed.
But blue has a lot of cards that reward you for casting cards like preordain, and lots of ways to cast it from the yard. Plus, a lot of blue decks don't have t1 plays, which makes it more likely you want to spend your t1 casting preordain instead of an elf.
And in channel, cheatyface, etc decks (beyond ones using oath) you're often happy trying to hit a creature - it's a sac target for natural order, or you hit your eldrazi for channel, etc. So you like OUaT since it's free and can hit creatures.
Maybe I'm wrong about this card but it just feels so, so meh. And FWIW I don't think it's remotely close to preordain. Preordain lets you get info on 2 cards, and dig 3 deep if you're looking for a specific effect.
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Even without synergy, Preordain is still solid on its own. I don't think the synergy aspect matters here since neither Preordain / Abundant Harvest are reliant on any other cards. Synergy does matter for Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time though. Typically my rule of thumb is if I don't have the critical mass to play Survival of the Fittest in my deck, then Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time are also out.
If I'm a Natural Order deck, sure that deck naturally has a healthy critical mass of creatures. My Channel / Oath of Druids / Show and Tell / etc decks usually don't have the critical mass of creatures to make Oath of Nissa / Once Upon a Time consistent.
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But you'll likely hit a land then, so it's not a stone whiff. And yeah you just don't play oath or OUaT if you have no creatures. And while this card is slightly better in those decks, it's never gonna be great in any deck IMO.
This is what I love about cube. Wildly different opinions on even a card as simple as this.
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A card either needs to have high raw power or synergy with an archetype to make it nowadays. This has neither. Sure, it's never a bad card but I feel like it's the type of card that ends up being your last cut because it doesn't add enough to your deck.
There is an article by Mike Flores talking about the Xerox theory ("UB trippin' ").
I feel you can already kind of get there in green decks with this, Gitaxian Probe, Chromatic Star, Mishra's Bauble and the like.
Sure you need these artifact cantrips, but they are good with Emry, Lurker of the Loch, Lurrus of the Dream-Den, Monastery Mentor, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer, Tangle Wire and more!
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Thus returning us to the classic cube conundrum - is a card that is fine in every deck, but good to great in none, a card you wanna cube with? Should every white section be running flagstones of trokair because every white deck will run it even though it's like 1% better than a plains (note - I think this card is substantially better than flagstones, it's just my go-to example for the "this card goes in every deck" question)?
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@ asmallcat - when it gives you this effect, the answer is a resounding yes. think of the cards available in cube, they are the best of the best. so if i need mana to cast said cards, Abundant Harvest is gonna help me do that. But if i have the mana & need 1 of those "botb" cards, AH is going to help w/ that as well. whats not to like? as for ur "flagstone" example, it really doesnt hold up here b/c we're not drafting basic lands. if a random "flagstones" was in your land station as a useable option, then of course ppl are going to put it into their decks, but no 1 who isnt playing white or playing a lands matter theme is going to bother picking it from a pack. if ur still not convinced, play this over ur worst mana dork & see how much you like it. (i would pick this over any mana dork, except noble hierarch, & that is pack dependent. if its early & i'm playing a ramp deck, then i'd go w/ the Noble, but if its late in the draft & i've alrdy got alot of the pieces, i'd probably take the AH b/c it serves either function.)
or here's another way to look @ it. i've long argued that preordain needs to be restricted in vintage b/c the cards are just too powerful in that format to give players that type of card selection, then the draw effect. Cube is similarly in that vein, of the cards being really good, & AH allows you a degree of control over getting what you want.
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1 mana is a big cost for minor card selection. If you digging to lands early that’s a big cost. If you digging to spells late it isn’t, but not being able to dig more than 1 is a big deal. Especially when your mana sources are often non-land permanents.
Don’t have time to extrapolate more, but I predict it’s way worse than ouat and slightly worse than oath of nissa.
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Card probably plays quite well but there are lots of 'plays quite well' cards don't include