I actually think this green four drop is pretty good. It adds a lot of board presence, power and toughness, and synergizes well with token/go wide strategies. Green 4's are pretty weak overall and this one is very unique in what it does. I think I'm gonna try it out.
2 2/2s for four with upside is worthwhile. Call the Cavalry and Talrand's Invocation have performed very well in my environment. And this is much more powerful than those.
This is pretty disruptable as a reusable engine though. If they get rid of your tokens, crewing this is no longer useful, and it does have to attack to trigger. That said, Garruks can be disrupted too.
I actually love this card. I love all the stuff it's doing. It works very well with haste, with any kind of recursion, with all tokens, and with anything that cares about/counts artifacts. Synergies all around. I'll happily play this.
I think you only need 1 activation off this to pull ahead. Its alresdy 8 p/t over 2.5 bodies for 4 mana. It depends on what you can copy as well. A 3/3 wurm coil token or 4/4 shark? Or a 1/1 human token
I think you only need 1 activation off this to pull ahead. Its alresdy 8 p/t over 2.5 bodies for 4 mana. It depends on what you can copy as well. A 3/3 wurm coil token or 4/4 shark? Or a 1/1 human token
I think you only need 1 activation off this to pull ahead. Its alresdy 8 p/t over 2.5 bodies for 4 mana. It depends on what you can copy as well. A 3/3 wurm coil token or 4/4 shark? Or a 1/1 human token
I think calling it 8 p/t is a stretch since you need 4 power to tap to make the 4 power on the actual card work.
I think calling it 8 p/t is a stretch since you need 4 power to tap to make the 4 power on the actual card work.
Sure, but creatures are commonly valued by how they trade with an opponent's resources. If you're using 4 power to crew this and throwing it in to the red zone, when it dies you will be left with... 4 power. If it doesn't die, it makes more cats until you have 8 power to use simultaneously (and another 4 power hidden behind the chariot).
If a 4/4 body is considered "a card" then trading with the Chariot itself is a 2 for 1. I think its easy to evaluate this as any other vehicle, but I don't think it will play like any other vehicle we've had before. I think this is a lot closer to a Batterskull variant than a Heart of Kiran for instance.
Interesting card. Works well with the PWs that make bulky tokens like Serra, Garruk Wildspeaker and IKO Vivien, and can be blinked for pretty decent value. However, vehicles are clunky in play and Crew 4 is huge. I like it but IDK. I think I'll wait for testing results.
I like this card. A splashable four drop in a very weak slot. It is hard to undo all the value it represents. A mass removal will leave the vehicle behind, a disenchant will leave two 2/2 tokens. It can attack as a 4/4 and leave a fresh 2/2 to defend with every combat. It is three extra mana next turn with Gaea's Cradle.
That could well be the case. Crew 4 is a heavy ask no question about it and that why I'm kinda thinking of this as a hidden selesnya card. Chariot curving into an Angel of Invention or Trostani Discordant are both string plays. You also have green only options like Deranged Hermit or cast a Verdurous Gearhulk to attack for 12! It's definitely an "archetype" card more than a pure "power" one.
Well, it conveniently produces exactly 4 power worth of tokens when it comes into play so why do you expect this would be any sort of problem? Just use the tokens.
Well, it conveniently produces exactly 4 power worth of tokens when it comes into play so why do you expect this would be any sort of problem? Just use the tokens.
Because when someone wraths the board you've got a vehicle that takes as much power to crew as it has power and no tokens to replicate. This one is a really easy pass for me. If Crew 3 has proven to be a high enough burden to cause Skysovereign, Consul Flagship to miss most cubes, this isn't even close.
Getting wrathed and being left with a clunky vehicle is better than being left with nothing, as will be the case with most green cards in this slot. 3 permanents on ETB is nice - opens doors for archetypes. And a ceiling worth exploring. As already mentioned very slick in an artifact cube.
Well, it conveniently produces exactly 4 power worth of tokens when it comes into play so why do you expect this would be any sort of problem? Just use the tokens.
Because when someone wraths the board you've got a vehicle that takes as much power to crew as it has power and no tokens to replicate. This one is a really easy pass for me. If Crew 3 has proven to be a high enough burden to cause Skysovereign, Consul Flagship to miss most cubes, this isn't even close.
I do think crew 4 is prohibitive, and it's a bit optimistic to assume you'll be able to keep using the tokens to crew it. Nevertheless, the value in this is much more wrapped up in the ETB trigger than with Skysovereign. 5 for a weaker lightning bolt is much worse than 3G for 2 2/2s. This card absolutely dominates that comparison.
That said, I don't think this is a small-cube staple or anything. It's never really going to be broken.
I do think crew 4 is prohibitive, and it's a bit optimistic to assume you'll be able to keep using the tokens to crew it. Nevertheless, the value in this is much more wrapped up in the ETB trigger than with Skysovereign. 5 for a weaker lightning bolt is much worse than 3G for 2 2/2s. This card absolutely dominates that comparison.
That said, I don't think this is a small-cube staple or anything. It's never really going to be broken.
This is where I'm at. I don't think it's *nuts*, but I think it's quite good.
The Skysovereign comparison is super weird because Skysovereign doesn't create a 3/3 on etb. I think we can all agree Skysovereign would be a very different card if it crewed itself on an empty board instead of sitting there waiting for your topdeck. This on an empty board is activated and grows in value every turn. That's why I think it is wrong to evaluate this as any other vehicle.
This competes with Trumpeting Herd, Wicked Wolf, Nightpack Ambusher, Thrun, Polukranos, Questing Beast, Huntmaster, and Wolfbriar Elemental. Beefy unga bunga value creatures that noticeably all *die to wrath of god* without leaving any vehicle behind like these cat tokens do.
If your cube doesn't want the above listed creatures, it probably doesn't want this imo. If it does, this card trades up with a LOT more interaction than the average 4drop does.
I think this compares most to Gideon, Ally of Zendikar since it makes 2/2s and gives you access to a large beater. While not as resilient as Gideon, Chariot gives more upfront in terms of tokens.
Well, it conveniently produces exactly 4 power worth of tokens when it comes into play so why do you expect this would be any sort of problem? Just use the tokens.
It's not a bad card. Four power across two bodies for 3G is a decent rate; hard to doomblade, good for blocking. It can attack as a 4/4 to generate a 2/2. It'd be nice if it interacted with creature tutors, or creature blink, but that's not too important.
It's a 4/4 vehicle that requires equal power to pilot. The primary benefit is that it works with itself. Generating tokens that aren't cats doesn't seem like it has a point. Post-sweeper, are you gonna drop a Deranged Hermit and generate a free squirrel token? Do you drop a Garruk Wildspeaker to make a 3/3 that... can't actually activate it without help? And I guess if it comes down to smashing 4/4s with another green midrange deck, I can keep tokens while trading off the vehicle? It feels like it has niche application in this respect.
What I'm trying to say is that I think this isn't really so much a vehicle, even though that's the card type. It feels like what we're looking at is just a 4/4 that makes a 2/2 on attack triggers, but has more durability thanks to it being driven by two tokens. You can play this card itself post-sweeper and it's a legitimate threat. But, I don't think that it's really quite as aggressive as a Questing Beast, or as hard to remove as a Thrun, the Last Troll, or as sleek as a Nightpack Ambusher. To me it's just ... a weird green take on Leonin Warleader. Which doesn't mean there isn't a place for it, I just don't think it's as versatile as we might expect.
The problem right now is there is this massive clump of 3-5 CMC strong green cards.
I been cutting a lot of these tier 2 decent everywhere, never stellar anywhere cards with more narrow but powerful cards to boaster some archetypes.
I'm in the process of re-evaluating these cards likeCollected Company for creature combos, Summer Bloom / Exploration to prop up storm/ lands etc. I just don't see how these "meh" cards can break into a format with such powerful archetypes/ general good cards.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
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In my artifact cube, though, this is an autoinclude!!! I have a token subtheme in green so this provides a lot of interactions.
This is pretty disruptable as a reusable engine though. If they get rid of your tokens, crewing this is no longer useful, and it does have to attack to trigger. That said, Garruks can be disrupted too.
I actually love this card. I love all the stuff it's doing. It works very well with haste, with any kind of recursion, with all tokens, and with anything that cares about/counts artifacts. Synergies all around. I'll happily play this.
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Will test.
I think calling it 8 p/t is a stretch since you need 4 power to tap to make the 4 power on the actual card work.
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Sure, but creatures are commonly valued by how they trade with an opponent's resources. If you're using 4 power to crew this and throwing it in to the red zone, when it dies you will be left with... 4 power. If it doesn't die, it makes more cats until you have 8 power to use simultaneously (and another 4 power hidden behind the chariot).
If a 4/4 body is considered "a card" then trading with the Chariot itself is a 2 for 1. I think its easy to evaluate this as any other vehicle, but I don't think it will play like any other vehicle we've had before. I think this is a lot closer to a Batterskull variant than a Heart of Kiran for instance.
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Well, it conveniently produces exactly 4 power worth of tokens when it comes into play so why do you expect this would be any sort of problem? Just use the tokens.
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Because when someone wraths the board you've got a vehicle that takes as much power to crew as it has power and no tokens to replicate. This one is a really easy pass for me. If Crew 3 has proven to be a high enough burden to cause Skysovereign, Consul Flagship to miss most cubes, this isn't even close.
I do think crew 4 is prohibitive, and it's a bit optimistic to assume you'll be able to keep using the tokens to crew it. Nevertheless, the value in this is much more wrapped up in the ETB trigger than with Skysovereign. 5 for a weaker lightning bolt is much worse than 3G for 2 2/2s. This card absolutely dominates that comparison.
That said, I don't think this is a small-cube staple or anything. It's never really going to be broken.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
This is where I'm at. I don't think it's *nuts*, but I think it's quite good.
The Skysovereign comparison is super weird because Skysovereign doesn't create a 3/3 on etb. I think we can all agree Skysovereign would be a very different card if it crewed itself on an empty board instead of sitting there waiting for your topdeck. This on an empty board is activated and grows in value every turn. That's why I think it is wrong to evaluate this as any other vehicle.
This competes with Trumpeting Herd, Wicked Wolf, Nightpack Ambusher, Thrun, Polukranos, Questing Beast, Huntmaster, and Wolfbriar Elemental. Beefy unga bunga value creatures that noticeably all *die to wrath of god* without leaving any vehicle behind like these cat tokens do.
If your cube doesn't want the above listed creatures, it probably doesn't want this imo. If it does, this card trades up with a LOT more interaction than the average 4drop does.
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It's not a bad card. Four power across two bodies for 3G is a decent rate; hard to doomblade, good for blocking. It can attack as a 4/4 to generate a 2/2. It'd be nice if it interacted with creature tutors, or creature blink, but that's not too important.
It's a 4/4 vehicle that requires equal power to pilot. The primary benefit is that it works with itself. Generating tokens that aren't cats doesn't seem like it has a point. Post-sweeper, are you gonna drop a Deranged Hermit and generate a free squirrel token? Do you drop a Garruk Wildspeaker to make a 3/3 that... can't actually activate it without help? And I guess if it comes down to smashing 4/4s with another green midrange deck, I can keep tokens while trading off the vehicle? It feels like it has niche application in this respect.
What I'm trying to say is that I think this isn't really so much a vehicle, even though that's the card type. It feels like what we're looking at is just a 4/4 that makes a 2/2 on attack triggers, but has more durability thanks to it being driven by two tokens. You can play this card itself post-sweeper and it's a legitimate threat. But, I don't think that it's really quite as aggressive as a Questing Beast, or as hard to remove as a Thrun, the Last Troll, or as sleek as a Nightpack Ambusher. To me it's just ... a weird green take on Leonin Warleader. Which doesn't mean there isn't a place for it, I just don't think it's as versatile as we might expect.
Definitely earned a spot in the second tier of green 4-drops.
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I just re-added it after hearing high praise on the 540 Cube podcast.
I been cutting a lot of these tier 2 decent everywhere, never stellar anywhere cards with more narrow but powerful cards to boaster some archetypes.
I'm in the process of re-evaluating these cards likeCollected Company for creature combos, Summer Bloom / Exploration to prop up storm/ lands etc. I just don't see how these "meh" cards can break into a format with such powerful archetypes/ general good cards.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i