Just wanted to check in and see what fellow cubers are doing with their bouncelands, if they run them. I currently run all 10 but the vast majority of the time people don't run them - everyone is either A. too afraid of land destruction, B. too worried about losing tempo against faster decks or C. their strategy just doesnt allow taking a turn off to play one.
That being said, I've heard of some people running some bouncelands over others (the green ones being the most commonly used). How does everyone feel about strength of bouncelands in their meta? Is it unreasonable to cut them completely?
Agree with asmallcat. There are just too many better lands now. And, I'd likely never run all 10 even if I decided to bring some of them back. I mean, Boros and Rakdos would likely never run them.
I could see Simic Growth Chamber or Gruul Turf being an okay include for the ramp archetype, especially if you support Azuza, Exploration and FastBond, but that's as far as you can go. I think Simic Growth Chamber is okay, I could test it, but thats about it.
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Pretty good situation that points to Cube design. I think a lot of Cube owners run things like these without doing proper evaluation of their Cube. I would ask yourself 2 things:
1. How much do I like these cards in Cube? (Scale of 1-10, 10 being LOVE 'EM)
2. What are the most powerful things I want to happen in my Cube?
If you really like these cards in Cube, then look at what is making them not perform as well. You cite people being afraid of land destruction as a reason why drafters do not run them. Slim down on things like that if you want these lands to perform well.
If you want to do powerful things like play 6 drops on turn 3, then the lands are not for your Cube.If you want to do powerful things like allow drafters to chain synergy cards, then they are probably worth making work in your Cube, but you will need to scale the level of cons associated with them, down.
Overall, I don't run them because I run a Powered environment with high impact cards. But we have them in a Pauper Cube and they are good. Can you run them in a Cube with rares and mythics? Yes, you just need to design with them in mind.
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Blood Sun should be run anywhere there are bounce lands.
I find it odd that this card gets almost no use when there are some many people running bounce lands especially in red.
I removed the bouncelands, they were too slow, or too ripe to get blown up by land destruction.
A lot of nice mana artifacts get the job done and synergize well with many of the other lands.
These are much better with the MDFC lands. We’re running Simic, Gruul, and Golgari and are pleased so far. I’m considering UW but am more hesitant without the green synergies. In a deep cube the checklands aren’t particularly exciting, so you don’t lose much to try them when you’re 9+ deep in each pair’s fixing.
I could definitely see an argument for Simic Growth Chamber as the 8th or 9th best guild land. I might give Simic Growth Chamber a try one day. But the other lands, I'm a bit reluctant.
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I've always loved the design of the bounce lands, they are just so interesting compared to pretty much all other duals, and provide card advantage to boot. I would love to cube them. However, sadly, the power level is just to low. They are very slow and extremely weak against any form of land destruction/bounce. The slight upside they have with MDFC is not enough to push them to see play in a normal powered/unpowered cube, even at large size.
If I were to design a lower power cube I think the bounce lands would be my go to choice for the first cycle of lands, vivid lands being another cycle of weaker lands I enjoy would go in, and also play well with the bounce lands.
As a B-list cuber, I still play a few bouncelands, and they're still good. I don't think you'd ever want ten though, and even five is a bit much. I rate them about like scry-lands in a vacuum (meaning with no synergies or anti-synergies). Surprising interactions do come up.
In a large, low-power environment, you are happy to sacrifice a small amount of power for potential synergy, especially in land slots that are completely necessary. Naturally you do get blown out sometimes when you play these. You may even sideboard it out for a basic against some decks.
And I wouldn't play Blood Sun either. That's a neat combo, but the card is too narrow in general. Sounds like fun and profit in constructed though.
That being said, I've heard of some people running some bouncelands over others (the green ones being the most commonly used). How does everyone feel about strength of bouncelands in their meta? Is it unreasonable to cut them completely?
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Cheers,
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CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
1. How much do I like these cards in Cube? (Scale of 1-10, 10 being LOVE 'EM)
2. What are the most powerful things I want to happen in my Cube?
If you really like these cards in Cube, then look at what is making them not perform as well. You cite people being afraid of land destruction as a reason why drafters do not run them. Slim down on things like that if you want these lands to perform well.
If you want to do powerful things like play 6 drops on turn 3, then the lands are not for your Cube.If you want to do powerful things like allow drafters to chain synergy cards, then they are probably worth making work in your Cube, but you will need to scale the level of cons associated with them, down.
Overall, I don't run them because I run a Powered environment with high impact cards. But we have them in a Pauper Cube and they are good. Can you run them in a Cube with rares and mythics? Yes, you just need to design with them in mind.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
I find it odd that this card gets almost no use when there are some many people running bounce lands especially in red.
A lot of nice mana artifacts get the job done and synergize well with many of the other lands.
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These are much better with the MDFC lands. We’re running Simic, Gruul, and Golgari and are pleased so far. I’m considering UW but am more hesitant without the green synergies. In a deep cube the checklands aren’t particularly exciting, so you don’t lose much to try them when you’re 9+ deep in each pair’s fixing.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
If I were to design a lower power cube I think the bounce lands would be my go to choice for the first cycle of lands, vivid lands being another cycle of weaker lands I enjoy would go in, and also play well with the bounce lands.
Simic Growth Chamber at the least is gonna stay in my cube. It's good with Exploration effects, landfall, land untaps like Snap, and untappers like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner and Vizier of Tumbling Sands. It's also good with hand-size matters cards like Kefnet the Mindful, and Vantress Gargoyle, though I'm not currently playing any of those.
In a large, low-power environment, you are happy to sacrifice a small amount of power for potential synergy, especially in land slots that are completely necessary. Naturally you do get blown out sometimes when you play these. You may even sideboard it out for a basic against some decks.
And I wouldn't play Blood Sun either. That's a neat combo, but the card is too narrow in general. Sounds like fun and profit in constructed though.
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