MTG Salvation

Me too. I think it will be very easy for black decks of almost every kind to break the symmetry and have it become really powerful.

Yea I think this card is pretty great. My black section is moving away from stax/reanimator so the sac and discard will hurt more in my environment, but I still think the flexibility and decent body makes this guy easily testable.

Where does this guy fit in with Yawgmoth, Spawn of Mayhem, and Kalitas I wonder? I'll pose the question in the This or That thread too...

I think he's probably better than both. Yawgmoth has a higher ceiling when the pieces fall into place but his floor is pretty terrible. As a 4 mana baneslayer, Kalitas fails the vindicate test pretty hard. Rankle gets you value before sorcery speed removal can take him out and can affect the board the turn you cast him, without needing additional resources. Sometimes a 4 mana edict/Lava Spike is what you need I think Rankle is probably the best non-Nekrataal-y black 4 drop for cube.

Hard to say if this is better than Kalitas in a cube. But I guess it depends on the context. My cube has a recursive theme so Kalitas is more powerful but this card could work in a Reanimator shell as well

I will probably push out Bloodline Keeper, or maybe Desecration Demon, to test this guy out.

Very interesting. I think I prefer Yawgmoth, but I'm not sure. Will keep an eye on this.

The surprise factor is great with this card, destroying a key card in hand or a sole creature. I think the lose life/ draw will be used the least and partly for reach. I have the suite of 3 Nekrataals in 450 so I may replace one. This is actually a good candidate.

Good card for sure. Cube-able at least in large cubes.

How good? needs testing. First glance I'd say it's worse than kalitas or yawgmoth, but serves a different function.

The situations when it's very good are when you are hellbent and they aren't,
or when you have creatures that are happy to sacrifice, but your opponent really doesn't want to lose any of their creatures.

I fear there will be a lot of situations where his abilities will gain little value, and while a 3/3 flying haste for 4 is a very solid base, it's not enough to make the card cubeable. It's better on offense than the majority of black 4 drops, but much worse on the backfoot.

I'm still running skinrender, think this is testable over that. I think it's definitely worse than spawn of mayhem, though.

Also, Prankle is the easiest and most obvious nickname ever.

Just found my replacement for Braids, Cabal Minion.. Sweet.

Quote from Morphling »

Just found my replacement for Braids, Cabal Minion.. Sweet.

Braids is uncuttable for us. One of the most abusable and high power 4 drops in the entire cube IMO, one of the most rewarding build-arounds

100% agreed. I think Braids is the best and most important black 4cc creature in the cube. It also finished #12 on the list of the top 20 black cards in the cube in this year's voting, FWIW.

I mean, obviously doing what's best for your own playgroup is priority #1, but I can't imagine not cubing with that card, personally.

Quote from ELPsteel »

Quote from Morphling »

Just found my replacement for Braids, Cabal Minion.. Sweet.

Braids is uncuttable for us. One of the most abusable and high power 4 drops in the entire cube IMO, one of the most rewarding build-arounds

I think braids has a huge drop-off between powered and unpowered. I've run a unpowered but powerful cube for years now, and it was never super impressive even when we fully supported pox and was never impressive for us. Same for other unpowered cube managers I played with. I think without a lot of fast mana to power it out early, braids is just extremely meh for what cards do for 4 mana nowadays, and she dies to everything.

My playgroup thoroughly despised playing with Braids, so I definitely understand that cut.

Rankle seems dope and I wasn't loving both Yawgmoth and Kalitas dumpstering aggro in my black 4s. Will certainly test, and likely over Kalitas.

Quote from asmallcat »

I think braids has a huge drop-off between powered and unpowered.

Not to derail the thread here, but this is an argument that I have a hard time getting behind. This seems to be a common misconception about how powered cubes play out that, after about 10 years of playing with power in my cube, I just see to be completely false. Powered cubes don't automatically start with one player immediately on turn two and four drops don't always come out on turn three. In the case of Braids, I'd even argue that playing her on turn three isn't even going to always be the correct play. Don't get me wrong. If you can chain fast mana into a recursive threat into an early Braids, that's great and might even win the game, but I don't think that line of play should have any bearing on how Braids is evaluated as a card. Not every game is going to chain Bloodsoaked Champion into Bitterblossom into Ophiomancer into Braids. On average, even in my powered list, I'd guess that she's probably a two or three for one before she's dealt with, which is why she ends up getting ranked so highly for most cubers. I just don't think including fast mana (or not) has anything to do with that average.

Quote from calibretto »

Quote from asmallcat »

I think braids has a huge drop-off between powered and unpowered.

On average, even in my powered list, I'd guess that she's probably a two or three for one before she's dealt with, which is why she ends up getting ranked so highly for most cubers. I just don't think including fast mana (or not) has anything to do with that average.

I made the statement about powered cubes because I assumed it must have a big effect, since I was never seeing those numbers from her in unpowered lists I was playing. In fact, you saying she was usually a 2 or 3 for 1 in your cube demonstrates to me that there was something different going on, as that was rarely the case for us and the number of games where she made a meaningful difference was small. YMMV, but she was never impressive for us and a lot of people that sing her praises seem to run powered, so I assumed there had to be a pretty big difference.

I firmly believe that Braids has outlived her usefulness and should be shown the door. In an environment with ample spot removal she has a giant "Bolt me Now" sign taped to her back.

I also think braids is overrated on these forums, but it's still a good card.

My best theory as to why, is over-emphasis on her upside. It's easy to remember the games where you play her on the play with a permanent advantage and they fail to answer her.

However, there are a ton of decks that have a lot of permanents where the smokestack effect is slow/symmetrical. In aggressive matchups she's quite bad.

She's really only nuts against decks without many permanents, which in my cube, is a minority of decks. Regardless, it's rare she doesn't get at least a 2 for 1 against those decks and there isn't another 4 drop in black I'd want more in those matchups.

Like smokestack, she also used to be better in an era where cards rarely put more than one permanent on the battlefield. As creature resiliency rose, and power level increased, it's indisputable that she's gotten worse over time.

I don't think Rankle replaces braids, The biggest problem with braid's decks isn't that she isn't good, but the lack of redundancy to the deck. Rankle I think is a card that can provide redundancy for that deck, but can also be useful in other decks as well. Testing will reveal if he is worth playing due to the number of decks that will want to run him.

I also think that Braids appeal is more in how memorable the games she wins for you are. That's largely why I ranked her at #19 -- she fell under the important to my cube criteria for the fun factor. It's an incredibly unique win condition. Just beat down with your couple of small threats while they die from their board disappearing faster than they can resolve permanents.
I don't think Stax strategies are very competitive in singleton cube--but I do think there are a lot of great lockdown focused cards that have more general success like Winter Orb, Rishadan Port, Tangle Wire, and Opposition.

That said, this card is also pretty fun so I think it will be a solid replacement for her as well.

I think Rankle provides a little bit more of all the things I already have and want to keep going. I look forward to seeing the deck that includes him AND Braids.

Quote from Blue_Oneironaut »

I look forward to seeing the deck that includes him AND Braids.

Me too! It's what I'm looking forward to the most.