Jeez, this set. I’d hate to take a guild slot for this, but it’s strictly better than a card I run (Disenchant). So far I’ve left hybrids in their guilds, so breaking that now feels uncomfortable. I think this set more than any I’ve seen spoiled so far will leave a lot of cube designers with tons of unique choices.
Soooooo, replacing Disenchant or in addition to? With the recent cuts of two artifact destruction cards from my own 540 Cube and the fact I've always wanted a Naturalize in the Cube I'm leading to having it plus Disenchant.
Soooooo, replacing Disenchant or in addition to? With the recent cuts of two artifact destruction cards from my own 540 Cube and the fact I've always wanted a Naturalize in the Cube I'm leading to having it plus Disenchant.
I added Return to Nature from WAR but haven't seen it in action yet.
It does seem weird to keep Disenchant and not add this, but even at 720 I'd rather not push out a strong Selesnya card like Dryad Militant or Knight of the Reliquary for this effect.
Cards like this are exactly why hybrids don't belong in the guild section, in my opinion.
Your Rakdos Cackler is a can't block 2/2 for R that happens to have the upsides of occasionally being a 1/1 chump blocker and ocassionally being cast for B. Nothing wrong with that.
Naturalize has been a great Cube card. It feels strange to consider this White when the “upside” over Disenchant is that you’re playing it in a non-white deck...
I didn’t even think about including this until it was pointed out as a better Disenchant, which I will simoly replace with this. I count hybrid cards as half of their. respective colors.
If one wants to balance by restricting the effect to white then it is fine.
Naturalize has been a great Cube card. It feels strange to consider this White when the “upside” over Disenchant is that you’re playing it in a non-white deck...
I understand that perspective to a point, but I think it's actually more accurate to say that the upside over Disenchant is you won't get screwed over as much by splashing green. If it was generally worthwhile to play this in a mono-green deck, we'd all be running Naturalize.
I started categorizing hybrids in mono when we got Dryad Militant way bat in RTR block. It's been a nice change and I've never regretted it or felt it warped my environment. Obviously a card has to be good enough on it's own. In the case of Militant it's basically just a Savannah Lions with a slightly more relevant upside over other variants. My cube wouldn't miss it all that much if it weren't there but I can balance it out with the all-star Kitchen Finks in my green section and free up a Selesnya slot for one of the many amazing green white cards that often can't crack a cube list due to the competish.
Generally speaking I count hybrids as “half a card” in each monocolor section. For example, if I’m running Finks and Dryad Militant in Selesnya, I’ll simply dock one slot from each monocolor section. If a tie needs to be broken, it’ll go against whichever color uses it more.
After the dust settles on this set maybe we have another thread where people post what they do.
I use Cubetutor and filter by color. Guild, tricolor and hybrid cards count as one card in their WUBRG color section. I like this because it gives me maximum flexibility to have better guilds with 7-8 cards and lesser guilds with 4-5. More importantly I don't have to represent all shards/wedges since they all don't merit a card based solely on power level.
This card will go in my cube, and it'll go into the section, where I think it belongs. Any time you can remove a gold card for a hybrid card, you're increasing overall cube playability by a lot more than when you remove a mono-colored card for a hybrid.
This card will go in my cube, and it'll go into the section, where I think it belongs. Any time you can remove a gold card for a hybrid card, you're increasing overall cube playability by a lot more than when you remove a mono-colored card for a hybrid.
I had to think about that for a second, but you do make a valid point. I'm still running Pridemage in GW so I'll make the swap for this. This will have me keeping en eye on Disenchant, but I think it will probably stay where it's at for now.
Ug, I don't like what questions this card makes me ask. I run a very small multicolored section of three per guild. Currently I run Qasali Pridemage, Knight of Autumn, and Dryad Militant. I also would like to slot in Kitchen Finks but have had difficulty with room issues.
Kitchen Finks, Nature's Chant and Dryad Militant I would run if they were mono white cards. And I firmly believe my cube is the better for running Pridemage and Knight of Autumn. And it doesn't make sense to use the fact that these cards happen to have hybrid mana as a mark against them.
While I would love to make a dedicated hybrid section, we flat out don't have the cards yet to make such a section a feasible option. I mean what hybrid G/B cards are you wanting to cube with? I really don't have an answer on how to handle this.
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I mean what hybrid G/B cards are you wanting to cube with? I really don't have an answer on how to handle this.
This probably isn't a helpful answer to your dilemma, but I still happily run Deathright Shaman.
Touche. I guess most sections have a reasonable option. Though I've never been super impressed by Ddeathright Shaman due to every deck not having a glut of fetchlands like when it was modern in legacy and modern.
This card will go in my cube, and it'll go into the section, where I think it belongs. Any time you can remove a gold card for a hybrid card, you're increasing overall cube playability by a lot more than when you remove a mono-colored card for a hybrid.
At the same time, what if you had a 5 card guild section and 4 of the best Selesnya cards were hybrid? If you cut 4 GW cards for them the incentive to play a deck with G and W is seriously hurt compared to other guilds. If you cut 2 W and 2 G then the overall cube playability still goes up but the payoffs for being in GW are preserved.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I don't think the incentive to play GW goes down, nor does having Kitchen Finks in the Selesnya section hurt the viability of WG.
But the overall playability of the cards in the cube declines when you play less monocolored cards and more gold cards, which is the direct result of having hybrids in the monocolored sections to preserve multicolor card slots.
If I could have no gold cards and all hybrid cards, that would be a win. But alas, there aren't enough good hybrid cards to do that. Hell, there aren't enough good hybrid cards to justify one in each color combination, IMO.
So I either: A) cut monocolored cards for hybrids to preserve gold slots (which reduces overall playability), B) try to build a "balanced" hybrid section (which either forces in bad cards or excludes good ones), or C) I classify them in their guilds and get to remove narrower gold cards to make room for more playable hybrid cards. I choose C because I think it's the clear winner of all the options.
So I either ... cut monocolored cards for hybrids to preserve gold slots (which reduces overall playability)
Would you mind unpacking that for me? If the hybrid is a strict upgrade on a preexisting monocolored card like this one is, wouldn't that increase the amount of decks that can play the card without penalty and thus increase the overall playability of the cube?
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Naturalize/Disenchant as a hybrid card. Ok, now what?
Most people run Disenchant but not Naturalize. Put this as a monowhite card replacing Disenchant? Or at a guild slot?
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I added Return to Nature from WAR but haven't seen it in action yet.
It does seem weird to keep Disenchant and not add this, but even at 720 I'd rather not push out a strong Selesnya card like Dryad Militant or Knight of the Reliquary for this effect.
Your Rakdos Cackler is a can't block 2/2 for R that happens to have the upsides of occasionally being a 1/1 chump blocker and ocassionally being cast for B. Nothing wrong with that.
If one wants to balance by restricting the effect to white then it is fine.
Haha I just got the wordplay.
I understand that perspective to a point, but I think it's actually more accurate to say that the upside over Disenchant is you won't get screwed over as much by splashing green. If it was generally worthwhile to play this in a mono-green deck, we'd all be running Naturalize.
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I use Cubetutor and filter by color. Guild, tricolor and hybrid cards count as one card in their WUBRG color section. I like this because it gives me maximum flexibility to have better guilds with 7-8 cards and lesser guilds with 4-5. More importantly I don't have to represent all shards/wedges since they all don't merit a card based solely on power level.
This card is going in my Cube in GW.
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I had to think about that for a second, but you do make a valid point. I'm still running Pridemage in GW so I'll make the swap for this. This will have me keeping en eye on Disenchant, but I think it will probably stay where it's at for now.
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Kitchen Finks, Nature's Chant and Dryad Militant I would run if they were mono white cards. And I firmly believe my cube is the better for running Pridemage and Knight of Autumn. And it doesn't make sense to use the fact that these cards happen to have hybrid mana as a mark against them.
While I would love to make a dedicated hybrid section, we flat out don't have the cards yet to make such a section a feasible option. I mean what hybrid G/B cards are you wanting to cube with? I really don't have an answer on how to handle this.
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This probably isn't a helpful answer to your dilemma, but I still happily run Deathright Shaman.
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Touche. I guess most sections have a reasonable option. Though I've never been super impressed by Ddeathright Shaman due to every deck not having a glut of fetchlands like when it was modern in legacy and modern.
WU: Judge's Familar, Plumveil, Azorious Guildmage?
UB: Ashiok, Oona, Nightveil Specter
BR: Rakdos Cackler, Fuliimnator Mage and Murderous Redcap
RG: Tattermunge Maniac, Burningtree Shaman
GW: Kitchin Finks, Dryad Militant, Nature's Chant
WB: Debtor's Knell, Stillmoon Cavalier, Unmake
BG: Deathrite Shaman
GU: Gilder Bairn (as cubes get more walkers this seems more reasonable)
UR: Saheeli, Izzet Guildmage
RW: Figure of Destiny, Boros Reckoner
This is just a browsing of each of the hybrid sections. I don't like many of them. (Including the entirety of the WU and WB section)
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At the same time, what if you had a 5 card guild section and 4 of the best Selesnya cards were hybrid? If you cut 4 GW cards for them the incentive to play a deck with G and W is seriously hurt compared to other guilds. If you cut 2 W and 2 G then the overall cube playability still goes up but the payoffs for being in GW are preserved.
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But the overall playability of the cards in the cube declines when you play less monocolored cards and more gold cards, which is the direct result of having hybrids in the monocolored sections to preserve multicolor card slots.
If I could have no gold cards and all hybrid cards, that would be a win. But alas, there aren't enough good hybrid cards to do that. Hell, there aren't enough good hybrid cards to justify one in each color combination, IMO.
So I either: A) cut monocolored cards for hybrids to preserve gold slots (which reduces overall playability), B) try to build a "balanced" hybrid section (which either forces in bad cards or excludes good ones), or C) I classify them in their guilds and get to remove narrower gold cards to make room for more playable hybrid cards. I choose C because I think it's the clear winner of all the options.
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Would you mind unpacking that for me? If the hybrid is a strict upgrade on a preexisting monocolored card like this one is, wouldn't that increase the amount of decks that can play the card without penalty and thus increase the overall playability of the cube?
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