3GG
Whenever you tap a Forest for mana, add an additional G.
+1: Put three +1/+1 counters on target noncreature land you control. Untap that land and it becomes a 0/0 green Elemental creature with vigilance and haste that's still a land.
-8: You get an emblem with "Lands you control are indestructible." Search your library for any number of Forest cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
{{5}}
Mana doubling is always good, and it's an ability that gets better the more iterations you have. It's an old fashioned treat to win with a fireball for 28. Like all the new planeswalkers I like, I like this because it has archetype support. As a turbo-ramp planeswalker, it's my favorite one. I've gotta say, I like these new planeswalkers so much more than the samey pushed mythics we always see.
I think Nissa, Worldwaker is better than this new Nissa. She can use her ramp ability immediately, so she often only costs 1-2 mana the turn you play her. And her threats are created outside of Bolt range, which is also relevant. She can also untap forest dual lands to get double non-green mana from them.
I am unsure about this nissa. She is much worse than Nissa Worldwaker and probably has a lower power level than most green five drops. The reason to play her is archetype support.
We are supporting a super ramp archetype that wants to play eldrazis, green 8 drops and mana sinks. The archetype cannot succeed without including cards that bridge the gap from the midgame to the top end bombs. There are very few cards that do this. We are playing Mirari's Wake mostly for this reason.
I fear the card is too narrow though. She is good in that archetype, but only in very heavy green decks. Will other decks want her?
I actually like this more than Worldwaker at first blush. Vigilance, haste and untap lets this protect itself far better than Worldwaker and attack more aggressively. This also does fun things with creature lands! As far as the mana discount goes, you can still get 2 out of the 4 immediately (along with a possible attack) and the ability to get more colors than Worldwaker generally allows. And you still get to attack! And that’s not even getting into how much better this is with other untap effects (Both Nissas are pretty sick together, actually).
I actually like this more than Worldwaker at first blush. Vigilance, haste and untap lets this protect itself far better than Worldwaker and attack more aggressively. This also does fun things with creature lands! As far as the mana discount goes, you can still get 2 out of the 4 immediately (along with a possible attack) and the ability to get more colors than Worldwaker generally allows. And you still get to attack! And that’s not even getting into how much better this is with other untap effects (Both Nissas are pretty sick together, actually).
I expect that on most board states, by the time you can cast Nissa a 3/3 without evasion is not intimidating, as was seen on Garruk, Primal Hunter
I actually like this more than Worldwaker at first blush. Vigilance, haste and untap lets this protect itself far better than Worldwaker and attack more aggressively. This also does fun things with creature lands! As far as the mana discount goes, you can still get 2 out of the 4 immediately (along with a possible attack) and the ability to get more colors than Worldwaker generally allows. And you still get to attack! And that’s not even getting into how much better this is with other untap effects (Both Nissas are pretty sick together, actually).
I expect that on most board states, by the time you can cast Nissa a 3/3 without evasion is not intimidating, as was seen on Garruk, Primal Hunter
This is a good comparison, as unless you're really, really fatty-heavy and profiting from the mana reflection effect, Garruk is just miles better - getting his beasts killed doesn't cost you lands and you get to draw cards off him.
I drew the opposite conclusion of "wow does Nissa have Garruk outclassed". She makes better cretures than Garruk while ramping, potentially effectively costing three the turn you cast her (and we have seen from Teferi, it is a big deal) and is even less green heavy to cast. Garruk card draw was a rare, mostly win more occurrence here.
Had the occasion to playtest it in my 540 powered cube, it massively exceeded my expectations and is way better than Nissa WW imho:
1. Starting Loyalty of 5 instead of 3 which is a huge difference
2. Much better at defending himself if cast with 5 mana if you had no other following play with Nissa WW because you untap the land. This war the biggest problem with Nissa WW for me, if cast with no mana left to spare and no following play with the untap forest effect that effectively defends him, it often dies on the spot. Instead with new Nissa, you have a 3/3 ready to block and 6 Loyalty so it is rare not to untap with it barring downfall/ring effects.
3. It generates more mana than Nissa WW if you untap with it: for both Nissa, each forest generates 2 mana but with the new one you have 2 add. mana with the +1 (I exclude the corner-case of more than 5 forests in favor of the new one as well). It was the difference between win&loss in 2 games where I was able to cast Dragon Lord Atarka / Natural Order with animated lands untapped whereas it would not have been the case with Nissa WW.
You can also get double non-green mana by untapping animated lands if needed; it is not as effective as Nissa WW but you can still generate double non-green mana which is the most common case if slightly color screwed.
4. You don't need to choose between generating mana and animating a land which is a huge difference->All of your turns you can animate your lands AND generate mana.
5. Found it better in race situations because you can play both offense and defense due to granting vigilance, it was prevalent in 2 games I played versus aggro.
-> Nissa WW was out of our cube but I expect the new one to keep its spot very easily. To me Nissa WW can be only better the turn it comes into play if you can follow it up with a strong play. From my limited sampling I am not even sure that generating 4/4 tramplers is better than 3/3 haste vigilance beaters. (One thing in favor of Nissa WW is the ultimate which is much stronger but almost never happen in my experience)
I like Worldwaker more because there's a huge difference between a 3/3 with vigilance creature and a 4/4 with trample. New Nissa's lands are in bolt range and are easier to trade with. It's much easier to end the game with Worldwaker, dealing with multiple 4/4 tramplers is no joke.
I’ve only played with and against this card in limited and standard so far, but that being said I absolutely agree with sandino’s statement. This Nissa would be my choice above all other 5cc green walkers (and I’m a fan of pretty much all of them to varying degrees). This doesn’t feel like “new set hopeful excitement” either...the card is just extremely powerful and has impressed me immensely.
Nissa WSTW is an incredible limited card and is even putting some work in standard in conjunction with Finale of Devastation which this curves into so well in Mono-G builds and is also a very cubeable card itself. I think the biggest point in this cards favor is that with Nissa WSTW you can make a creature and ramp: you don't have to choose between the two as you do with Nissa, Worldwaker. Also Nissa WSTW has a higher starting loyalty which "probably" improves the likelihood of being able to ramp with it the following turn. So really the question is if these advantages outweigh Nissa, Worldwaker's ability to make bigger 4/4 tokens with a more relevant keyword. I think they are very close.
Seeing her in action has standard has given me pause and reconsider my stance as well. (I never really thought in depth about this nissa, dismissed it too quick)
As blackwaltz said, being able to ramp AND make creatures is a dynamic that's hard to compare with the other nissa.
Though, as far as an immediate threat is concerned, the 4/4 tramples are a huge improvement over the 3/3 vigilance.
I think that difference is more magnified in cube with the amount of token/utility creature fodder around.
Think I'm gonna give her a test run at some point.
I really want to give her a whirl. She is fantastic in Standard... but what gives me pause is the number of sweepers in Cube. I get that you can play around them, but I am pretty skeptical. I would love to hear how it works, or is working for people!
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My cube update will probably include her if my list ends up getting bigger. While I still like the original Nissa more, there's some potential synergies with this one that would be coming in alongside her that helps boost her value a little bit.
I agree the increase in sweepers in the environment is the biggest downside for this Nissa in the cube. That said, this is a planeswalker that plays remarkably better than it reads. At first blush, you're like "Yup, average Nissa stuff huh." Only when playing against her do you realize she does everything you want a Nissa to do at the same time.
A common play pattern for standard: You tap out to play her, animate and untap a Stomping Ground. It has haste, so you tag an opposing planeswalker. It has vigilance, so it can still protect Nissa on the backswing. They attack Nissa with two creatures, you block one with the land, then tap it for R+G to Lightning Strike the other, because Nissa is still passively Mana doubling. Or let's say you don't have the burn. They get through with that second creature to Nissa's hearty SIX loyalty. You then untap with up to 10 Mana right off the bat. 12 if you play another forest. 14 once you animate and untap another forest. You then get to spend that Mana to do other things, and still be growing your army every turn.
This Nissa is punishable (getting wrathed after animating 3+ lands hurts, but even then you can still cast spells off the Mana doubling, and you can ult to replace them with indestructible forests), but unpunished she quickly overwhelms the battlefield.
As someone who greatly enjoys playing a simic deck on Arena, Nissa is fantastic for anyone considering a +1/+1 counters & proliferate theme. Ult with an Evolution Sage on the battlefield is hilarious.
Green's identity is primarily ramp and secondarily midrange, and these walkers fit really well. Nissa, Who Shakes the World replaced Vital Force for me. High starting loyalty is important.
3GG
Whenever you tap a Forest for mana, add an additional G.
+1: Put three +1/+1 counters on target noncreature land you control. Untap that land and it becomes a 0/0 green Elemental creature with vigilance and haste that's still a land.
-8: You get an emblem with "Lands you control are indestructible." Search your library for any number of Forest cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
{{5}}
Mana doubling is always good, and it's an ability that gets better the more iterations you have. It's an old fashioned treat to win with a fireball for 28. Like all the new planeswalkers I like, I like this because it has archetype support. As a turbo-ramp planeswalker, it's my favorite one. I've gotta say, I like these new planeswalkers so much more than the samey pushed mythics we always see.
Edit: Updated image
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We are supporting a super ramp archetype that wants to play eldrazis, green 8 drops and mana sinks. The archetype cannot succeed without including cards that bridge the gap from the midgame to the top end bombs. There are very few cards that do this. We are playing Mirari's Wake mostly for this reason.
I fear the card is too narrow though. She is good in that archetype, but only in very heavy green decks. Will other decks want her?
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I expect that on most board states, by the time you can cast Nissa a 3/3 without evasion is not intimidating, as was seen on Garruk, Primal Hunter
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This is a good comparison, as unless you're really, really fatty-heavy and profiting from the mana reflection effect, Garruk is just miles better - getting his beasts killed doesn't cost you lands and you get to draw cards off him.
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1. Starting Loyalty of 5 instead of 3 which is a huge difference
2. Much better at defending himself if cast with 5 mana if you had no other following play with Nissa WW because you untap the land. This war the biggest problem with Nissa WW for me, if cast with no mana left to spare and no following play with the untap forest effect that effectively defends him, it often dies on the spot. Instead with new Nissa, you have a 3/3 ready to block and 6 Loyalty so it is rare not to untap with it barring downfall/ring effects.
3. It generates more mana than Nissa WW if you untap with it: for both Nissa, each forest generates 2 mana but with the new one you have 2 add. mana with the +1 (I exclude the corner-case of more than 5 forests in favor of the new one as well). It was the difference between win&loss in 2 games where I was able to cast Dragon Lord Atarka / Natural Order with animated lands untapped whereas it would not have been the case with Nissa WW.
You can also get double non-green mana by untapping animated lands if needed; it is not as effective as Nissa WW but you can still generate double non-green mana which is the most common case if slightly color screwed.
4. You don't need to choose between generating mana and animating a land which is a huge difference->All of your turns you can animate your lands AND generate mana.
5. Found it better in race situations because you can play both offense and defense due to granting vigilance, it was prevalent in 2 games I played versus aggro.
-> Nissa WW was out of our cube but I expect the new one to keep its spot very easily. To me Nissa WW can be only better the turn it comes into play if you can follow it up with a strong play. From my limited sampling I am not even sure that generating 4/4 tramplers is better than 3/3 haste vigilance beaters. (One thing in favor of Nissa WW is the ultimate which is much stronger but almost never happen in my experience)
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As blackwaltz said, being able to ramp AND make creatures is a dynamic that's hard to compare with the other nissa.
Though, as far as an immediate threat is concerned, the 4/4 tramples are a huge improvement over the 3/3 vigilance.
I think that difference is more magnified in cube with the amount of token/utility creature fodder around.
Think I'm gonna give her a test run at some point.
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A common play pattern for standard: You tap out to play her, animate and untap a Stomping Ground. It has haste, so you tag an opposing planeswalker. It has vigilance, so it can still protect Nissa on the backswing. They attack Nissa with two creatures, you block one with the land, then tap it for R+G to Lightning Strike the other, because Nissa is still passively Mana doubling. Or let's say you don't have the burn. They get through with that second creature to Nissa's hearty SIX loyalty. You then untap with up to 10 Mana right off the bat. 12 if you play another forest. 14 once you animate and untap another forest. You then get to spend that Mana to do other things, and still be growing your army every turn.
This Nissa is punishable (getting wrathed after animating 3+ lands hurts, but even then you can still cast spells off the Mana doubling, and you can ult to replace them with indestructible forests), but unpunished she quickly overwhelms the battlefield.
Green's identity is primarily ramp and secondarily midrange, and these walkers fit really well. Nissa, Who Shakes the World replaced Vital Force for me. High starting loyalty is important.