I plan on only voting for the top cards, and going from there. If we want to find out what the 20 best cards are in a given color, the random 5 and 6 voting won't matter much. Plus, it's going to be blended with the super arbitrary CT data, so it doesn't matter much anyways.
It's great to hear that you will contribute. I intend to vote for 50-ish cards per colour, which includes the 45 each from my cube and 5-ish that I don't play but are highly ranked in the voting sheet.
I wouldn't call the CT data "super arbitrary". It's far from perfect, but I very commonly find myself filtering a certain colour + cmc and just sort by pick percentage (ignoring the small cube sample sizes). You get very decent results from this method. In any case, given the transparency of the data provided thus far (and that the Excel is public) I assume we could just hypothetically give the votes a weight of 100% and see what cards the forum thinks are best, unadulterated.
Good work! I recommend you put privacy protection on so people can only edit a blank column, or something more advanced.. As of right now, I can tinker with everyones ratings. So 1 malicious person can wipe out everything, unless you have a plan for this..
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback!
Also thanks to LucidVision and Swarles_Barkley for voting!
My current, low-tech solution to this is to just download a hard copy version of the spreadsheet once a day (just downloaded right now fyi).
That should minimize the risk quite a bit since we can just revert to the previous day spreadsheet if something malicious actually happens.
Not a perfect solution, but doesn't seem like a more sophisticated option is available. Hopefully since there's nothing to gain personally from a malicious action this won't be a problem, but if we encounter that we can think of a more robust solution (like people emailing me their votes or limiting editing to users who send me their emails or something).
Good work! I recommend you put privacy protection on so people can only edit a blank column, or something more advanced.. As of right now, I can tinker with everyones ratings. So 1 malicious person can wipe out everything, unless you have a plan for this..
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback!
Also thanks to LucidVision and Swarles_Barkley for voting!
My current, low-tech solution to this is to just download a hard copy version of the spreadsheet once a day (just downloaded right now fyi).
That should minimize the risk quite a bit since we can just revert to the previous day spreadsheet if something malicious actually happens.
Not a perfect solution, but doesn't seem like a more sophisticated option is available. Hopefully since there's nothing to gain personally from a malicious action this won't be a problem, but if we encounter that we can think of a more robust solution (like people emailing me their votes or limiting editing to users who send me their emails or something).
I wonder if thers isn't a risk of "priming" or "anchoring" as well when a user goes to input his votes and see a bunch of other votes right next to them, especially by certain influential users. Public voting has always been the case for these power ranking votes though.
Good work! I recommend you put privacy protection on so people can only edit a blank column, or something more advanced.. As of right now, I can tinker with everyones ratings. So 1 malicious person can wipe out everything, unless you have a plan for this..
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback!
Also thanks to LucidVision and Swarles_Barkley for voting!
My current, low-tech solution to this is to just download a hard copy version of the spreadsheet once a day (just downloaded right now fyi).
That should minimize the risk quite a bit since we can just revert to the previous day spreadsheet if something malicious actually happens.
Not a perfect solution, but doesn't seem like a more sophisticated option is available. Hopefully since there's nothing to gain personally from a malicious action this won't be a problem, but if we encounter that we can think of a more robust solution (like people emailing me their votes or limiting editing to users who send me their emails or something).
I wonder if thers isn't a risk of "priming" or "anchoring" as well when a user goes to input his votes and see a bunch of other votes right next to them, especially by certain influential users. Public voting has always been the case for these power ranking votes though.
It's definitely a risk, yes :).
This voting methodology would definitely be unacceptable for any sort of serious polling.
Emailing / PMing scores would be a little better but more obnoxious as well. But I'm open to that
Backup Plan not the best card? this card is better than any powered card, acutally comparable to Contract from Below, no even better. But i guess having two hands to chose from before taking a mulligan. At first i did not see it's strength, but the powerelevel of this card grows in proportion to the cube's powerlevel. In my group we had to ban it, because it was too strong even for powered cube or i should say, in particular for powered.
i am really surprised at the rating of this card.
How are your experiences?
Backup Plan not the best card? this card is better than any powered card, acutally comparable to Contract from Below, no even better. But i guess having two hands to chose from before taking a mulligan. At first i did not see it's strength, but the powerelevel of this card grows in proportion to the cube's powerlevel. In my group we had to ban it, because it was too strong even for powered cube or i should say, in particular for powered.
i am really surprised at the rating of this card.
How are your experiences?
I guess there's also Nerf War to consider..
I think my brother and I are the only ones to consider Necro-Impotence supremely broken as well. Its a better Necropotence (15 life = draw 30 cards)
But to your point, a number of the Conspiracies are insane and rank alongside Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, etc
Backup Plan not the best card? this card is better than any powered card, acutally comparable to Contract from Below, no even better. But i guess having two hands to chose from before taking a mulligan. At first i did not see it's strength, but the powerelevel of this card grows in proportion to the cube's powerlevel. In my group we had to ban it, because it was too strong even for powered cube or i should say, in particular for powered.
i am really surprised at the rating of this card.
How are your experiences?
I agree this card is quite broken.
Conspiracies are weird though since most cubes don't play them.
As a result, the cube counts are low and typically people won't vote on those cards
Furthermore, I don't think most people appreciate the power level of this card in particular, evidenced by the low pick % (23%).
FYI I also would not play with Backup Plan, I think it's an absurd card.
I cast my votes. For now, I only ranked the cards that I shuffle to the front of the pack for P1P1 cards, which are basically all my cards ranked from 9.0 to 10.0. So there's only a few per color (except blue and colorless, which have more).
I cast my votes. For now, I only ranked the cards that I shuffle to the front of the pack for P1P1 cards, which are basically all my cards ranked from 9.0 to 10.0. So there's only a few per color (except blue and colorless, which have more).
Cool. Also saved.
You can always vote on more cards later if you'd like
Also cast my votes. While I usually don't participate in the discussion, I always enjoy reading what all of you contribute to this wonderful community.
Also cast my votes. While I usually don't participate in the discussion, I always enjoy reading what all of you contribute to this wonderful community.
I added some rankings. Just stuff I cube, have cubed somewhat recently, or have plenty of experience with otherwise. I added Nether Void, since I couldn't find it
I just voted, probably about 20 for each section, though I made an exception and voted for each fetchland and plenty of other lands, too.
Thanks so much for doing this. Even if our numbers are arbitrary, with ten or more voters, many of the incongruities will fade away.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I just voted, probably about 20 for each section, though I made an exception and voted for each fetchland and plenty of other lands, too.
Thanks so much for doing this. Even if our numbers are arbitrary, with ten or more voters, many of the incongruities will fade away.
Thanks Mike!
So far we've had 9 users vote with a total of 3003 votes cast across hundreds of cards!
Pretty excited to see what the results will look like at the end of the quarter - seems like we should be able to get over 20 voters total hopefully!
By the way, I'd just like to recommend Google Drive spreadsheets as a pretty great way of doing this - although I do maintain a hardcopy, Google Drive actually has a complete version history of the spreadsheet that gets saved every time anyone makes an edit. So if the spreadsheet ever did get messed it, it's trivial to restore to any previous version.
I noticed that people were adding cards at the bottom of the spread sheet, but now they are all deleted. What is up with that?
Goblin Cratermaker
Assassin's trophy
Knight of Autumn
Gutterbones
etc.
I assume it was because they were new, but just because a card is new does not mean it does not belong on the list. After playtesting ravnica allegiance I would even add Light up the Stage. While certainly not the best red card in cube, it better than some other cards on the list.
I love this. Is there something we can do to get more people to vote? maybe move this thread to the main cube page, so more people will see it?
Probably something to do with the format. The previous iterations of these were a lot of fun because everyone posted only their top-10 or 20 cards or whatever, and we all got to see them in real time and have a dialogue about it here on the forum. Now everyone just posts in the sheet and doesn't say anything, and then that's that. Also, the fact that there's an additional layer of friction in working in google spreadsheets doesn't help with voter participation, either.
Just my 2c, I'm glad y'all are doing this nonetheless!
It's great to hear that you will contribute. I intend to vote for 50-ish cards per colour, which includes the 45 each from my cube and 5-ish that I don't play but are highly ranked in the voting sheet.
I wouldn't call the CT data "super arbitrary". It's far from perfect, but I very commonly find myself filtering a certain colour + cmc and just sort by pick percentage (ignoring the small cube sample sizes). You get very decent results from this method. In any case, given the transparency of the data provided thus far (and that the Excel is public) I assume we could just hypothetically give the votes a weight of 100% and see what cards the forum thinks are best, unadulterated.
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback!
Also thanks to LucidVision and Swarles_Barkley for voting!
My current, low-tech solution to this is to just download a hard copy version of the spreadsheet once a day (just downloaded right now fyi).
That should minimize the risk quite a bit since we can just revert to the previous day spreadsheet if something malicious actually happens.
Not a perfect solution, but doesn't seem like a more sophisticated option is available. Hopefully since there's nothing to gain personally from a malicious action this won't be a problem, but if we encounter that we can think of a more robust solution (like people emailing me their votes or limiting editing to users who send me their emails or something).
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
I wonder if thers isn't a risk of "priming" or "anchoring" as well when a user goes to input his votes and see a bunch of other votes right next to them, especially by certain influential users. Public voting has always been the case for these power ranking votes though.
It's definitely a risk, yes :).
This voting methodology would definitely be unacceptable for any sort of serious polling.
Emailing / PMing scores would be a little better but more obnoxious as well. But I'm open to that
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15xe5pY2niCsEisv5Nu-vK-NppLiGG2Pu9BkbipExZ9Q/edit?usp=sharing
Yup, looks great!
Just downloaded another copy for safekeeping
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
i am really surprised at the rating of this card.
How are your experiences?
I guess there's also Nerf War to consider..
I think my brother and I are the only ones to consider Necro-Impotence supremely broken as well. Its a better Necropotence (15 life = draw 30 cards)
But to your point, a number of the Conspiracies are insane and rank alongside Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, etc
I agree this card is quite broken.
Conspiracies are weird though since most cubes don't play them.
As a result, the cube counts are low and typically people won't vote on those cards
Furthermore, I don't think most people appreciate the power level of this card in particular, evidenced by the low pick % (23%).
FYI I also would not play with Backup Plan, I think it's an absurd card.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cool. Also saved.
You can always vote on more cards later if you'd like
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
[180 classic cube]
Great, thanks!
Saved.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Thanks so much for doing this. Even if our numbers are arbitrary, with ten or more voters, many of the incongruities will fade away.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Thanks Mike!
So far we've had 9 users vote with a total of 3003 votes cast across hundreds of cards!
Pretty excited to see what the results will look like at the end of the quarter - seems like we should be able to get over 20 voters total hopefully!
By the way, I'd just like to recommend Google Drive spreadsheets as a pretty great way of doing this - although I do maintain a hardcopy, Google Drive actually has a complete version history of the spreadsheet that gets saved every time anyone makes an edit. So if the spreadsheet ever did get messed it, it's trivial to restore to any previous version.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
Goblin Cratermaker
Assassin's trophy
Knight of Autumn
Gutterbones
etc.
I assume it was because they were new, but just because a card is new does not mean it does not belong on the list. After playtesting ravnica allegiance I would even add Light up the Stage. While certainly not the best red card in cube, it better than some other cards on the list.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Probably something to do with the format. The previous iterations of these were a lot of fun because everyone posted only their top-10 or 20 cards or whatever, and we all got to see them in real time and have a dialogue about it here on the forum. Now everyone just posts in the sheet and doesn't say anything, and then that's that. Also, the fact that there's an additional layer of friction in working in google spreadsheets doesn't help with voter participation, either.
Just my 2c, I'm glad y'all are doing this nonetheless!
My Cube on Cube Tutor