MTG Salvation

I'm not sure if people play Manamorphose unless they're supporting storm, but it's easily my favorite RG card (and I don't support storm). It's not splashy or stompy, but it's always in high demand.

Quote from Mergatroid_Jones »

I'm not sure if people play Manamorphose unless they're supporting storm, but it's easily my favorite RG card (and I don't support storm). It's not splashy or stompy, but it's always in high demand.

I think the 5 cards that cross pollinates with the most number of archetype in terms of both raw power level + playability in the number of archetypes:

Kitchen Finks
Frantic Search
Fastbond - This is a bit contentious, but its such a strong anchor in both lands/ storm that has no equal.
Manamorphose
Restoration Angel

But yah, Manamorphose is just insane.

But also thanks for recommending Component Pouch.

I'm considering trimming 4-5 cards to add 4-5 artifact ramp. I found mana rocks to always be in high demand.

There are two cards I think people should not sleep on:

- Rift Sower
- Blackmail

Suspend creatures have haste. I always think of a mana dork as suspend 1, as it only produces mana on the following turn. This is suspend 2, which is not the worst. This is no Birds of Paradise, but I think this is slightly better than a 2 CMC dork as it does open up your turn 2 mana for 2 drop or Talisman.

Blackmail has been surprisingly good in testing - I've found it fairly good in both attrition decks that just want to 1 for 1 the opponent and its done fairly good approximation of Thoughtseize in the 3-4 turns to remove disruption from the opponent.

Maelstrom Wanderer

This is another card that we shouldn't sleep on. Its not hard to get Temur colors in ramp decks - especially with Birds, Noble or any 3-5 1 CMC mana dork, you can usually get temur in the late game off a splash from a GR ramp, UR ramp UG ramp etc.

Double Cascade gets around the problem of payoffs being answered by countermagic, sweepers, removal etc.

It can also cascade into removal/ haste of Wanderer + Creatures

I think I'd be very happy with wanderer if it had trample, but as is, I'm not sure this is actually the finisher I want. Interestingly, this would be more than okay if it was CMC 9, since all my other green finishers have CMC 8.

Its a drawback, but its not the end of the world - most of my other green fatties have trample.

Its purposes is for the ramp vs blue deck matchups where cards like Hornet Queen/ Avenger of Zendikar are soft to both counter magic and sweepers.

Eldrazi suffer from Oblivion Ring effects, the other fatties suffer from counter spell / sweeper + not providing sufficient ETB.

I was looking for something that is decent against removal/ sweepers/ counter magic and Maelstorm Wanderer really filled this role.

Thrun the Last Troll might make a reappearance in my cube for a similar reason + Unga Bunga.

With Maelstrom Wanderer, hitting a mana dork seems very rough, and if you're a green ramp deck, you'll likely have a lot of them. Also, I think Sweet-Gum Recluse is better without top-of-deck manipulation, because it costs 2 less mana, has flash, is mono-coloured and even if you hit a mana dork it makes it a 4/4. I haven't actually played with Wanderer so I might be very wrong though.

Quote from Mangolassi »

With Maelstrom Wanderer, hitting a mana dork seems very rough, and if you're a green ramp deck, you'll likely have a lot of them. Also, I think Sweet-Gum Recluse is better without top-of-deck manipulation, because it costs 2 less mana, has flash, is mono-coloured and even if you hit a mana dork it makes it a 4/4. I haven't actually played with Wanderer so I might be very wrong though.

Recluse into a Deranged Hermit ?

Recoil/ Anguished Unmaking are cards I really like - its ability to remove any permanent and tuck lands {Recoil Only} has been stellar against unfair decks or answers to threats from Control/ Ramp decks.

How far do people feel Temporal Spring from Vindicate?

I love Temporal Spring, and I never intend to cut it. But it's not really like Vindicate, since it's a tempo card much more than removal.

The most powerful thing to do with Temporal Spring is to combine it with similar effects, like Oust, Memory Lapse, Plow Under, and Commit // Memory. Two or more of these effects in a single game can be really backbreaking.

Whereas Vindicate has no strategy in mind. It just destroys what you need destroyed. Temporal Spring is a good card even if you aren't playing a tempo deck, but tempo is always a major part of its function unless you are forcing shuffles.

I'm also a fan of Recoil. For a non-modal card, it has a lot of different functions in different game states. It's a totally different card on turn three than in the late game, but it's good at both points.

Quote from Mergatroid_Jones »

I love Temporal Spring, and I never intend to cut it. But it's not really like Vindicate, since it's a tempo card much more than removal.

The most powerful thing to do with Temporal Spring is to combine it with similar effects, like Oust, Memory Lapse, Plow Under, and Commit // Memory. Two or more of these effects in a single game can be really backbreaking.

Whereas Vindicate has no strategy in mind. It just destroys what you need destroyed. Temporal Spring is a good card even if you aren't playing a tempo deck, but tempo is always a major part of its function unless you are forcing shuffles.

I'm also a fan of Recoil. For a non-modal card, it has a lot of different functions in different game states. It's a totally different card on turn three than in the late game, but it's good at both points.

Getting to remove a fatty cheat/ Thousand Year Storm is just invaluable. But getting to tuck a land feels real special and is something I would love in Vintage Cube.

Has anyone tried Price of Progress before?

This seems like a pretty awesome card to deal potentially 6 damage of 2 red in the late game.

I just cannot tell you how satisfying it is seeing legacy burn with someone going Price of Progress/ Fireblast/ Bolt off 3 lands and burning the opponent out from something like 13.

I have pondered on that for some time actually, together with Blood Moon, Back to Basics and Contamination (Contamination since I like myself some hard Stax :D)
I am no Legacy player myself, but enjoy watching it, and all those cards (except Contamination) see heavy sideboard play (PoP and Moon even Mainboard)
So what do you say, which of those do you see port best to Cube and why?


So far, I never thought these cards were quite good enough due to the imperfect manabase of quite a few cubedecks. How much damage would PoP need to deal in order to be worth it. 4 is not enough, but I think 6 would be, but only in the very rarest cases could this be cast on Turn 4 or 5 in my opinion.


Due to the prevalence of basics in typical cubes, I believe Contamination to be the best consideration for choking someone off mana by unconventional means (i.e. indirect landdestruction)

Quote from Resarox »

I have pondered on that for some time actually, together with Blood Moon, Back to Basics and Contamination (Contamination since I like myself some hard Stax :D)
I am no Legacy player myself, but enjoy watching it, and all those cards (except Contamination) see heavy sideboard play (PoP and Moon even Mainboard)
So what do you say, which of those do you see port best to Cube and why?


So far, I never thought these cards were quite good enough due to the imperfect manabase of quite a few cubedecks. How much damage would PoP need to deal in order to be worth it. 4 is not enough, but I think 6 would be, but only in the very rarest cases could this be cast on Turn 4 or 5 in my opinion.


Due to the prevalence of basics in typical cubes, I believe Contamination to be the best consideration for choking someone off mana by unconventional means (i.e. indirect landdestruction)

I felt it wasn't that great, but the new creature manlands + Pathway lands gave cube curators very good land options.

I contemplated about adding a 10th set of duals - Primarily because fixing options are fairly strong and I been doing more sealed / 4 people drafts thus the appeal of these lands.

Also with discard outlets like Hazoret, Seasoned Pyromancer and the increase in duals, this might change the math slightly for Price. But I'm not sure.

I also think that the niche of Price is better catered with Sulfuric Vortex. Vortex also shuts down lifegain, which meanwhile is rather significant - and it is very good when played on curveand still presents reach and inevitability when played a bit later.

I don't think Price of Progress is reliable enough in most cubes. In legacy burn, the opponent's lands can usually guarantee you at least 4 damage, and often more. But most cubes can't promise that. PoP is an unreliable burn that can't hit creatures and has no alternate mode when it's dead.

But cards like Goblin Ruinblaster are another matter. I think that one is pretty great, and I don't think most people play it. I'm also looking forward to trying Obsidian Charmaw.

Eldritch Evolution - 4-5 drops keep getting better and better and this card just gets better and better. I feel like Grist by himself might have made this card playable.

The card would be perfect if it removed these two drawbacks:
- The sacrifice was part of resolution and not cost (no 2 for 1 with counter spell)
- Green has very good 3-4 drops that can easily recoup the card disadvantage the turn it comes into play, but I would be happy if there was a good 2 drop that was cube playable outside of something like Wall of blossoms

I played this card a few years ago and cut it again. Also, I think I mostly play all the same 4 or 5 drop creatures I did a few years ago, with the most notable changes being Fury, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician and Urza, Lord High Artificer. I'm not convinced that this is enough for me to reconsider Eldritch Evolution, especially since it has the double-green mana cost. Depends on whether I see a good other cut, but I like Green Sun's Zenith quite a bit more. But maybe I have space, and I love this kind of creature-cheating!

Eldritch Evolution just didn't cut it for me - I think if the sacrifice was part of the resolution, it might be a different story.

- Stubborn Denial - I do not know how many times I wished I had a Stubborn Denial for my Control finisher/ reanimator - polymorph - ramp deck both to protect my own stuff but to proactive cut off my opponent from their combo. Maybe this comes from my experience as a legacy player, but Spell Pierce has been one of my favorite cards in any blue deck - it has just been great in the early to midrange.

I haven't been too high on the second tier cantrips of Opt - Consider - Sleight of Hand as of late.

Stubborn Denial is a good sleeper.

I’m always looking at second tier counters as potential overperformers. For example, Force Spike has always been awesome for us, and it’s nowhere near getting cut, but I see it in very few Cubes. At some point you wonder if the community love for Mana Tithe will translate to more Cubes trying Force Spike.

I think another card that might be a sleeper is Endurance.

- Improves interaction against Reanimator/ Storm, but not to the point where its oppressive like Ooze/ Thalia might feel in some cases, especially for green decks that may lack interaction.
- Flash/ Free Cast goes a long way. Flash Creatures (Archangel Avacyn) is fantastic at ambushing creatures - It has done a lot of work ambushing Delver's in Legacy.
- Blue-X decks have this glut of 2 CMC spells - Midrange Creatures decks often have this glut of 3 CMC spells. Endurance is a good 3 drop for these counter spells deck to play on curve as an answer to graveyard synergies, but often to ambush an attacker/ flash in to pressure planeswalkers or opponent. Similarly, this is a good card to play at the 3 CMC slot for midrange decks, but also could be pitched (often in unfair matchups) if the hand has a glut of 3 CMC spells.