There are a number of spells you can grab which represent more value than 1 mana. I'm skeptical too, but I don't think it needs to grab those to be good.
So, no doubt the card is good and cubeable in a power cube.
What I'm curious about is how good will it be assuming you cannot grab ancestral recall or time walk with it?
If it's not, I'm not a huge fan of a card that makes your already broken decks more broken, but won't see much play outside of that.
I expect the utility of grabbing a spell that suits the scenario is worth it, but I'm not sure. Grabbing X spells, or a swords to plowshares, or a chart a course.
I'm gonna test it , but if it turns into a "Do I have recall/timewalk/mind twist? Play it. Do I not? Sideboard" I'll cut it pretty fast.
This seems very fair. Blue power is already so hard to beat and if Spellseeker is only enabling those decks further while adding little else, it really doesn't deserve to be included in the cube. There's too many fun and unique cards nowadays to waste time on making broken cards better.
^ Even though I don't play powered, I'd say the cards that make broken powered decks even more broken are exactly the kinds of cards I'd like to add if I ran power. It's the narrowness and wasting a cube slot for a potential second Time Walk that just might not materialize during the draft, rather than the once-in-a-blue-moon deck with three virtual copies of Time Walk via this and Mystical Tutor, that is the issue.
^ Even though I don't play powered, I'd say the cards that make broken powered decks even more broken are exactly the kinds of cards I'd like to add if I ran power. It's the narrowness and wasting a cube slot for a potential second Time Walk that just might not materialize during the draft, rather than the once-in-a-blue-moon deck with three virtual copies of Time Walk via this and Mystical Tutor, that is the issue.
So, no doubt the card is good and cubeable in a power cube.
What I'm curious about is how good will it be assuming you cannot grab ancestral recall or time walk with it?
If it's not, I'm not a huge fan of a card that makes your already broken decks more broken, but won't see much play outside of that.
I expect the utility of grabbing a spell that suits the scenario is worth it, but I'm not sure. Grabbing X spells, or a swords to plowshares, or a chart a course.
I'm gonna test it , but if it turns into a "Do I have recall/timewalk/mind twist? Play it. Do I not? Sideboard" I'll cut it pretty fast.
I'm quite certain the floor is going to be really, really hard to miss. Especially in blue
I like the comparison to Sea Gate Oracle, which has performed well for us. The 1/3 body being pretty effective against aggro is actually a big part of that. Spellseeker has less value as a body but I see it mainly for abusing in a blink shell, where the ceiling is certainly higher. Having to reveal the card you tutor for is a bummer though.
I'm gonna swap this in for Supreme Will. It's a somewhat similar effect at the same cost. This could either be incredibly impressive or incredibly mediocre.
Frankly, this is the only card from the set that interests me. Even so, I doubt I'll find room for it.
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I just browsed through your list and I'd agree. The only possible cuts I could see there for this would be Trinket Mage or maybe Waterfront Bouncer. I think I remember you being a big fan of both of those, though. Cuts are getting damn near impossible even at 450.
I just browsed through your list and I'd agree. The only possible cuts I could see there for this would be Trinket Mage or maybe Waterfront Bouncer. I think I remember you being a big fan of both of those, though. Cuts are getting damn near impossible even at 450.
Bouncer is on the chopping block, but I'm strongly considering expanding the colorless section by cutting 2-3 from each color. Given that, there's even less room. Thanks for browsing my cube, though.
So, no doubt the card is good and cubeable in a power cube.
What I'm curious about is how good will it be assuming you cannot grab ancestral recall or time walk with it?
If it's not, I'm not a huge fan of a card that makes your already broken decks more broken, but won't see much play outside of that.
I expect the utility of grabbing a spell that suits the scenario is worth it, but I'm not sure. Grabbing X spells, or a swords to plowshares, or a chart a course.
I'm gonna test it , but if it turns into a "Do I have recall/timewalk/mind twist? Play it. Do I not? Sideboard" I'll cut it pretty fast.
Update:
I now have about 30 cubes worth of testing experience with spellseeker. I think it's a great utility creature in fully powered cubes.
It's ceiling is obviously in a time walk/recall deck, and it's great in those decks. But it still sees play outside of those decks... There's just so many incredible cheap cards in powered cubes.
Reanimate, Mana drain, swords to plowshares, Channel, hymn to tourach, mind twist (list goes on).
The utility of grabbing the best spell that suits the situation, grabbing busted cube cards that are WAY undercosted for their effect and the random interactions that a 1/1 creature tutor provides makes a great card. My fear of it being a time walk/recall only card was exaggerated.
While it's probably in the bottom 10-20 blue cards in my cube, I can't see cutting it for a long time. My only complaint is it tends to make broken decks even more broken, but is a "meh" playable in average decks that aren't tutoring for a combo piece.
It seems the reception for Spellseeker/ Trinket Mage is (or was in 2018?) fairly high, but the reception for their more versatile blue 3 CMC tutor is a lot lower. Why is that?
The body on Imperial Recruiter has been a bit more relevant, since it is played more with Pod/ Aristocrats/ Kiki etc. But I don't see too many cases of Spellseeker played inside blink or anything - its more or less played as a 3 CMC Demonic Tutor for Instant/ Sorcery.
Similarly, Trinket mage has been fairly good for its ability to grab moxen, lotus, etc but cannot grab artifact combo pieces such as Basalt Monolith, Time Vault or any of the high end payoffs.
I guess what I'm asking is "how good is the 2/2 body or 1/1 body?"
I've been thinking about these cards to help provide some much needed redundancy for my storm decks in 720 while not being parasitic.
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I like both of the body modes more than the spell equivalents, but Trinket Mage in particular is a lot better than Fabricate because the 2/2 body is worth a full card in addition to the tutoring value it provides. I don't run any of those cards, but I'm infinitely closer to adding the creatures back in than I'd ever be adding in a limited target 3-mana tutor that's just card parity.
I like both of the body modes more than the spell equivalents, but Trinket Mage in particular is a lot better than Fabricate because the 2/2 body is worth a full card in addition to the tutoring value it provides. I don't run any of those cards, but I'm infinitely closer to adding the creatures back in than I'd ever be adding in a limited target 3-mana tutor that's just card parity.
Thanks for the response.
I could definitely see how Trinket mage is stronger than Fabricate. But for Spellseeker vs Solve the Equation, I think i'm still firmly on the Solve the Equation side given that Solve the equation could fetch sweepers/ WildFire/ Mind's Desire etc.
The only reason I could see why Spellseeker's body is relevant is with cards like Bone Shards or Culling the weak
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It crews copter, picks up a Sword, trades for an opponent's 2/1, can be flickered or picked up and recast for another trigger, flipped in and out of play with Nightmare ...the body still does stuff, you know? I wish it was a 2/2 like Trinket Mage is, but it's still a valuable thing to have around.
Spellseeker felt like a card I want in a powered 360 or in a 720+ card cube that's loaded with the scaleable Xcc spells that get added in at bigger sizes. It never really shone for me in medium-sized cubes.
Trinket Mage is always a card I'm looking to re-add to my cube. I love it, but cuts in blue are so agonizing.
It crews copter, picks up a Sword, trades for an opponent's 2/1, can be flickered or picked up and recast for another trigger, flipped in and out of play with Nightmare ...the body still does stuff, you know? I wish it was a 2/2 like Trinket Mage is, but it's still a valuable thing to have around.
Spellseeker felt like a card I want in a powered 360 or in a 720+ card cube that's loaded with the scaleable Xcc spells that get added in at bigger sizes. It never really shone for me in medium-sized cubes.
Trinket Mage is always a card I'm looking to re-add to my cube. I love it, but cuts in blue are so agonizing.
I'll have to think about it. But not being able to fetch sweepers or high end payoffs for combo decks feels problematic. Do you have a sample list by any chance?
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I remember thinking Mission Briefing was barely good enough for powered cubes. It was worse than snapcaster, but not way worse.
The analogy isn't perfect because UU vs 1U is a big difference, but I certainly underestimated how big the body part of snapcaster contributed to it's value. Mission briefing was a flop in every format.
Eternal witness is a way better card than regrowth and it costs an entire G mana more.
Yes spellseeker is more often seen in decks without way to abuse the ETB (tension between spell count and creatures), but the creature value still adds up.
I remember thinking Mission Briefing was barely good enough for powered cubes. It was worse than snapcaster, but not way worse.
The analogy isn't perfect because UU vs 1U is a big difference, but I certainly underestimated how big the body part of snapcaster contributed to it's value. Mission briefing was a flop in every format.
Eternal witness is a way better card than regrowth and it costs an entire G mana more.
Yes spellseeker is more often seen in decks without way to abuse the ETB (tension between spell count and creatures), but the creature value still adds up.
Thanks for your responses!
I'm pretty sold right now that Trinket Mage's 2/2 body. I guess most of the time you're searching for a moxen/ Crypt/ sol/ lotus anyways. 2 power is relevant to pressure planeswalkers/ life total. I could definitely see how Trinket mage is probably stronger than Fabricate
For Spellseekr, I could see how the 1/1 body is pretty relevant against the aggressive decks, especially with the 1 toughness creatures. If it was a 2/2 (with similar stats to shardless) or 3 CMC or less, I probably would be more excited about it.
But I feel its more that "Ancestral, Channel, Time Walk, Mana Drain, Mind Twist are good ..." and I just want to cast those cards. I feels like Merchant Scroll would probably do a serviceable job as it can fetch Flash, Frantic Search, Sunder, Gifts Ungiven as well.
I really need to think about/ test it before I comment. Right now, I feel I'm more in the market for a card like Merchant Scroll or Solve the Equation to help tutor up my blue combo instants.
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I think I agree, but I'm not as impressed by this card now as I was first reading it. If I do give it a try it will probably be over Kira.
I'm quite certain the floor is going to be really, really hard to miss. Especially in blue
I still like sea gate oracle and this is going to beat that like 90% of that time.
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I just browsed through your list and I'd agree. The only possible cuts I could see there for this would be Trinket Mage or maybe Waterfront Bouncer. I think I remember you being a big fan of both of those, though. Cuts are getting damn near impossible even at 450.
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Bouncer is on the chopping block, but I'm strongly considering expanding the colorless section by cutting 2-3 from each color. Given that, there's even less room. Thanks for browsing my cube, though.
Cheers,
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Update:
I now have about 30 cubes worth of testing experience with spellseeker. I think it's a great utility creature in fully powered cubes.
It's ceiling is obviously in a time walk/recall deck, and it's great in those decks. But it still sees play outside of those decks... There's just so many incredible cheap cards in powered cubes.
Reanimate, Mana drain, swords to plowshares, Channel, hymn to tourach, mind twist (list goes on).
The utility of grabbing the best spell that suits the situation, grabbing busted cube cards that are WAY undercosted for their effect and the random interactions that a 1/1 creature tutor provides makes a great card. My fear of it being a time walk/recall only card was exaggerated.
While it's probably in the bottom 10-20 blue cards in my cube, I can't see cutting it for a long time. My only complaint is it tends to make broken decks even more broken, but is a "meh" playable in average decks that aren't tutoring for a combo piece.
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Solve the Equation vs Spellseeker and
Trinket Mage vs Fabricate
It seems the reception for Spellseeker/ Trinket Mage is (or was in 2018?) fairly high, but the reception for their more versatile blue 3 CMC tutor is a lot lower. Why is that?
The body on Imperial Recruiter has been a bit more relevant, since it is played more with Pod/ Aristocrats/ Kiki etc. But I don't see too many cases of Spellseeker played inside blink or anything - its more or less played as a 3 CMC Demonic Tutor for Instant/ Sorcery.
Similarly, Trinket mage has been fairly good for its ability to grab moxen, lotus, etc but cannot grab artifact combo pieces such as Basalt Monolith, Time Vault or any of the high end payoffs.
I guess what I'm asking is "how good is the 2/2 body or 1/1 body?"
I've been thinking about these cards to help provide some much needed redundancy for my storm decks in 720 while not being parasitic.
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Thanks for the response.
I could definitely see how Trinket mage is stronger than Fabricate. But for Spellseeker vs Solve the Equation, I think i'm still firmly on the Solve the Equation side given that Solve the equation could fetch sweepers/ WildFire/ Mind's Desire etc.
The only reason I could see why Spellseeker's body is relevant is with cards like Bone Shards or Culling the weak
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Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
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2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
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Spellseeker felt like a card I want in a powered 360 or in a 720+ card cube that's loaded with the scaleable Xcc spells that get added in at bigger sizes. It never really shone for me in medium-sized cubes.
Trinket Mage is always a card I'm looking to re-add to my cube. I love it, but cuts in blue are so agonizing.
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I'll have to think about it. But not being able to fetch sweepers or high end payoffs for combo decks feels problematic. Do you have a sample list by any chance?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The analogy isn't perfect because UU vs 1U is a big difference, but I certainly underestimated how big the body part of snapcaster contributed to it's value. Mission briefing was a flop in every format.
Eternal witness is a way better card than regrowth and it costs an entire G mana more.
Yes spellseeker is more often seen in decks without way to abuse the ETB (tension between spell count and creatures), but the creature value still adds up.
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Thanks for your responses!
I'm pretty sold right now that Trinket Mage's 2/2 body. I guess most of the time you're searching for a moxen/ Crypt/ sol/ lotus anyways. 2 power is relevant to pressure planeswalkers/ life total. I could definitely see how Trinket mage is probably stronger than Fabricate
For Spellseekr, I could see how the 1/1 body is pretty relevant against the aggressive decks, especially with the 1 toughness creatures. If it was a 2/2 (with similar stats to shardless) or 3 CMC or less, I probably would be more excited about it.
But I feel its more that "Ancestral, Channel, Time Walk, Mana Drain, Mind Twist are good ..." and I just want to cast those cards. I feels like Merchant Scroll would probably do a serviceable job as it can fetch Flash, Frantic Search, Sunder, Gifts Ungiven as well.
I really need to think about/ test it before I comment. Right now, I feel I'm more in the market for a card like Merchant Scroll or Solve the Equation to help tutor up my blue combo instants.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i