I could probably cut every white 5 drop @ 360 and it not make a huge deal.
We did exactly this some time ago and if you're building a power cube IMO you almost have to do so (not literally mandatory but you are basically clinging to interia otherwise). Tbh its been a long time since I can legitimately say I've *liked* any of the white 5s. 5 mana is just too much compared to the efficiency at lower mana costs. Gideon Jura still works as an exception to the rule but even he's not as indispensable as he once might have been.
Of course, I think this trickles down into the 4s as well because my list of top white 4s is both shorter and completely at odds with what seems to be the consensus. I don't think Wrath of God or Armageddon are strong in 360 power cubes.
EDIT: as an aside, Entreat the Angels is easily the best white "five" for us
I don't think Wrath of God or Armageddon are strong in 360 power cubes.
Controversial stuff. Care to expand on this?
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I don't think Wrath of God or Armageddon are strong in 360 power cubes.
Controversial stuff. Care to expand on this?
Its just because if you're going for straight power, Cube is an absurdly (over)powered format. 4 mana KO spells are probably worse in such an environment than almost anywhere else (Mind Twist has the same problem incidentally). You have to downgrade midrange (and pure control) quite a bit because everything ends up at an extremum on the GO FAST<--->GO BIG spectrum. But then I've felt for many years that pure control decks were more of a nostalgia kick than a desireable/optimal Cube design decision.
I don't think this is true. Armageddon is strong because it is a powered environment. It allows aggro, with its otherwise under-powered creatures to compete by keeping the game in the early stages mana-wise where it has the advantage.
Similar, but opposite, for wrath of god. It allows control to bridge the gap between the early stage and mid/late stage by resetting the board in the stage where it has an advantage.
Do you play with cubes that don't support aggro? If so I can see Armageddon and Wrath being 'not quite' as strong. But even then, they situationally will be very good. Just not so much in the scripted "aggro plays out their hand then 'geddons on turn 4 or control wraths on turn 4".
I don't think this is true. Armageddon is strong because it is a powered environment. It allows aggro, with its otherwise under-powered creatures to compete by keeping the game in the early stages mana-wise where it has the advantage.
Similar, but opposite, for wrath of god. It allows control to bridge the gap between the early stage and mid/late stage by resetting the board in the stage where it has an advantage.
Do you play with cubes that don't support aggro? If so I can see Armageddon and Wrath being 'not quite' as strong. But even then, they situationally will be very good. Just not so much in the scripted "aggro plays out their hand then 'geddons on turn 4 or control wraths on turn 4".
I think the idea is;
Armageddon is at it's worst in 360 powered cubes because it has the highest density of moxen and mana rocks out of any other cube size. Taking the opponent to 0 lands instead of 2, is a night and day difference for their chance to recover.. They are also going to have a higher density of broken cards to get out of the crippled situation.. AND a higher probability of doing something broken before you have the chance to cast a devastating armageddon.
Wrath of god is at it's worst in 360 powered cubes because the broken decks are so good that they make it very difficult for midrange creature decks to compete in the format, so there will be less creature decks in a competitive meta. Once you've supported the base "best 150 cards in magic" there isn't that much room for random creatures. This tends to make the format creature light compared to larger cubes. Many of the best red cards are burn spells, so red is less reliant on creatures to close out the game... Green decks tend to lean heavier on their natural order/channel effects than on creatures as well.
A card that is a 9/10 in 50% of matchups and a 3/10 in 50% of matchups is a mediocore card, despite it being a critical sideboard card.
Think they are still good cards, but they are much much worse than in a 720 unpowered.
We did exactly this some time ago and if you're building a power cube IMO you almost have to do so (not literally mandatory but you are basically clinging to interia otherwise). Tbh its been a long time since I can legitimately say I've *liked* any of the white 5s. 5 mana is just too much compared to the efficiency at lower mana costs. Gideon Jura still works as an exception to the rule but even he's not as indispensable as he once might have been.
Of course, I think this trickles down into the 4s as well because my list of top white 4s is both shorter and completely at odds with what seems to be the consensus. I don't think Wrath of God or Armageddon are strong in 360 power cubes.
EDIT: as an aside, Entreat the Angels is easily the best white "five" for us
Controversial stuff. Care to expand on this?
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Its just because if you're going for straight power, Cube is an absurdly (over)powered format. 4 mana KO spells are probably worse in such an environment than almost anywhere else (Mind Twist has the same problem incidentally). You have to downgrade midrange (and pure control) quite a bit because everything ends up at an extremum on the GO FAST<--->GO BIG spectrum. But then I've felt for many years that pure control decks were more of a nostalgia kick than a desireable/optimal Cube design decision.
Similar, but opposite, for wrath of god. It allows control to bridge the gap between the early stage and mid/late stage by resetting the board in the stage where it has an advantage.
Do you play with cubes that don't support aggro? If so I can see Armageddon and Wrath being 'not quite' as strong. But even then, they situationally will be very good. Just not so much in the scripted "aggro plays out their hand then 'geddons on turn 4 or control wraths on turn 4".
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I think the idea is;
Armageddon is at it's worst in 360 powered cubes because it has the highest density of moxen and mana rocks out of any other cube size. Taking the opponent to 0 lands instead of 2, is a night and day difference for their chance to recover.. They are also going to have a higher density of broken cards to get out of the crippled situation.. AND a higher probability of doing something broken before you have the chance to cast a devastating armageddon.
Wrath of god is at it's worst in 360 powered cubes because the broken decks are so good that they make it very difficult for midrange creature decks to compete in the format, so there will be less creature decks in a competitive meta. Once you've supported the base "best 150 cards in magic" there isn't that much room for random creatures. This tends to make the format creature light compared to larger cubes. Many of the best red cards are burn spells, so red is less reliant on creatures to close out the game... Green decks tend to lean heavier on their natural order/channel effects than on creatures as well.
A card that is a 9/10 in 50% of matchups and a 3/10 in 50% of matchups is a mediocore card, despite it being a critical sideboard card.
Think they are still good cards, but they are much much worse than in a 720 unpowered.
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