MTG Salvation

With the release of Lyra Dawnbringer in Dominaria, I think a discussion of the white 5 slot is warranted. There are a ton of solid options I see people playing, and I'm not entirely sure which of these are the right choices anymore.

• Angel of Invention
  
• Angel of Sanctions
  
• Archangel Avacyn
  
• Baneslayer Angel
  
• Cloudgoat Ranger
  
• Reveillark

Gideon Jura

Assuming Baneslayer is the swap for Lyra, which others have been underperforming for y'all? I'll share my results:

Angel of Invention is alright. It synergizes well with Reveillark/Alesha/Recruiters/etc. but has been underwhelming on its own.

Angel of Sanctions has performed well beyond initial expectations. It provides a significant tempo swing on ETB along with the potential for recursion. Still, 3 power leaves much to be desired.

Archangel Avacyn is not in danger of being cut. She's a blowout in combat.

Baneslayer Angel is iconic, but is a close analog to Lyra and should be the cut for those who want to run her. Underwhelming in some matchups but superb in others.

Cloudgoat Ranger is an army in a can, and three tokens being left behind after the main body gets removed causes a significant shift in the ground game. However, as an evasive creature, it's rather subpar.

Reveillark has such a high ceiling in Azorius and Boros decks I'd feel bad ever cutting it. The body isn't great, but it costs only one white mana, unlike the other options.

Gideon Jura is still great.

Ideally, I want to cut one of these. Six five-drop creatures plus Gideon is too many cards in that slot.

Thalia's Lancers is legit too now that it grabs planeswalkers and we will probably get some more legendaries.

I still like Karmic Guide, as well. Turn 4 Griselbrands with Survival of the Fittest and going infinite with 'Lark are really nice plays.

There's also Elspeth Tirel, its not insane and definitely one of the worse options but its not completely embarrassing and fine in a pinch.

i've really liked angel of invention personally.

Tier 1 -
Archangel Avacyn
Angel of Invention

Tier 2 -
Baneslayer Angel
Reveillark
Cloudgoat Ranger

Tier 3-
Angel of Sanctions
Wingmate Roc

Tier 4-
Karmic Guide

I haven't played with Thalia's Lancers. I think Elspeth Tirel is totally an embarrassing card and will be tier 4.

This is probably my current order; there are so many good options, it's crazy.

I play with Avacyn, Angel of Invention, Reveillark, and Thalia's Lancers. I have an unnatural love for tutor effects, and there are plenty of targets for it. It certainly helps the consistency of decks that want to get a Legend out.

I cut Reveillark today since I can't remember the last time I saw it do anything, putting Archangel Avacyn in its place.

I think the last time I saw it as an impactful roleplayer was before I cranked up fast and disruptive creatures to counteract Planeswalker saturation. Not sure he has does enough fast enough to keep up.

I'm surprised to see Cloudgoat getting ranked so highly. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Cloudgoat, but I think Baneslayer has won me more cube games because it's more of a 'deal with it or die' kind of card. With Cloudgoat it's a lot easier to deal with the tokens and leave them with a 3/3. And again, this isn't to downplay it's power. Obviously it's been a great cube card for a long time and it's still doing work in my low power and peasant cubes.

Here are my five drops at 555:

Reveillark
Archangel Avacyn
Angel of Invention
Baneslayer Angel
Thalia's Lancers

Lancers would be the spot that Cloudgoat would currently be, but I'd rather have Lancers and Angel of Invention than two token makers. Lyra will probably push out Baneslayer for me for similar reasons.

Quote from calibretto »

Here are my five drops at 555:

Reveillark
Archangel Avacyn
Angel of Invention
Baneslayer Angel
Thalia's Lancers

These are the five drops I run at 450. It's probably one too many, but these cards are all great. Lyra will slide into the BSA spot. One of the important factors about BSA and Lyra is the 5 toughness. They curve directly into Wildfire and white is the secondmost popular color pair for the Wildfire deck with my drafters.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from calibretto »

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Cloudgoat, but I think Baneslayer has won me more cube games because it's more of a 'deal with it or die' kind of card.

There's also the opposite of 'dealt with and die', where you have this bomb you need to untap with and they just doom blade it and you're sitting there hoping for a top deck. With the army-in-a-can dies, you don't die so hard to those cards and there's a lot of value in that, and 3 1/1s can represent a lot of damage depending on whats possible in your cube. (Anthems, Purphoros)

Lots of close calls for my ranking.. Revilark has highest upside, but hardest to realize it's upside. Baneslayer's power is sooo matchup dependent, that it's hard to average it's power. Angel of sanctions and karmic guide gains a lot from the cards in the cube that support them.
I've never cubed with thalia's lancers but It's a card that would be much better in slow environments than fast environments... Can't help but think it's too slow in anything but a large unpowered cube.

Would you rather have +1/+1, flying & lifelink or the base 4/4 first strike plus a Jace/Liliana/Chandra/Gideon/Elspeth in your hand? For me, it's the latter, and not particularly close. Lancers (post errata) was much better for us than Baneslayer.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Would you rather have +1/+1, flying & lifelink or the base 4/4 first strike plus a Jace/Liliana/Chandra/Gideon/Elspeth in your hand? For me, it's the latter, and not particularly close. Lancers (post errata) was much better for us than Baneslayer.

I don't know. Normally I would say flying/lifelink, but I haven't actually played with lancers, and I do love tutors. I should give this a try.

However, a card that hasn't been mentioned yet is Archangel of Thune . This card is repeatedly game winning, and I would consider it above BSA.

With Dominaria's emphasis on Legendaries and PW now being legendary, I think I'm finally convinced to test Thalia's Lancers in Reveillark's slot (queue the Reveillark is amazing, I could never cut that replies, hehe). The lancers also allow me to fetch our new Angel so even more upside.

Has anybody else been feeling like they have too many white fives nowadays? At 410 we play 6 5s, and at 360 we play 4. They’re all amazing cards, but occasionally it feels like there are too many, especially at 360. The white aggressive decks play such good 4 drops, they they often outclass the non Angel of Invention 5s, to the point that cards like Avacyn and Revelark are often relegated to the sideboard. AoI and Lark feel safe enough in that they still often make the cut, but Avacyn and others don’t usually make the cut anymore simply because the 4s are simply better for their price. Has this affected other playgroups too? And were changes made for those that have seen similar patterns to accommodate the lower necessity for non-planswalker value finishers?

Gideon is not mentioned because this is regarding aggro and midrange specifically, and Gideon is safe as he is generally of a different purpose in decks and gameplay.

I've got 4 at 360 with angel of invention, archangel avacyn, angel of sanctions, reveillark.

definitely maxed out. angel of sanctions is one of the first cards on the chopping block too so i wouldnt be surprised if i go down to three. I think three is pretty good at 360.

Quote from NotScottMescudi »

Has anybody else been feeling like they have too many white fives nowadays? At 410 we play 6 5s, and at 360 we play 4. They’re all amazing cards, but occasionally it feels like there are too many, especially at 360. The white aggressive decks play such good 4 drops, they they often outclass the non Angel of Invention 5s, to the point that cards like Avacyn and Revelark are often relegated to the sideboard. AoI and Lark feel safe enough in that they still often make the cut, but Avacyn and others don’t usually make the cut anymore simply because the 4s are simply better for their price. Has this affected other playgroups too? And were changes made for those that have seen similar patterns to accommodate the lower necessity for non-planswalker value finishers?

Gideon is not mentioned because this is regarding aggro and midrange specifically, and Gideon is safe as he is generally of a different purpose in decks and gameplay.

Interesting, Archangel Avacyn has performed great for me. It's possible another 50+ cards in the cube makes a significant difference in the quality of competition tho. Agree that there is a noticeable slide after the top 3... I believe you don't need more even at 450.

I could probably cut every white 5 drop @ 360 and it not make a huge deal. I'd personally rank Elspeth Knight errant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar, Armageddon, Ravages of war, Restoration angel, Parallax wave AND hero of bladehold higher importance than any 5 drop creature in both agro and midrange..

Also I prefer my white control decks to be built around non-creature spells or mentor/top.

Avacyn performs best in an agro-midrange strategy that operates partially on an instant speed axis. A few counter spells, instant speed removal spells, maybe a spell queller, restoration angel, collected company, venser etc.. Pairs very well with creatures like selfless spirit where you can control when she flips. My WU tempo decks often fit this mold and she's the best 5 drop in those imo.

Time to cut BSA today for Lyra and I'm not happy about it. Almost upped my cube to 500 because I stan so hard for BSA. Least I can stare at the art in my on-deck binder...

My 540 unpowered plays:

Archangel Avacyn
Angel of Invention
Reveillark
Thalia's Lancers

Non-creatures:
Gideon Jura
Fumigate

Were I to add another creature, it would probably be Cloudgoat Ranger as I have a lot of support for token strategies, and it's really good with cards like Crystal Shard, Kor Skyfisher, and anything that blinks.