Seems good, White 2-drops are mostly utility and lack power; having a Blade of the Sixth Pride that doesn't die in trades and is immune to removal and sweepers is very useful.
Pretty sweet, but I'd probably still rather play Aethergeode Miner. It requires an attack to protect it and the protection removes it from combat, but 4 life is steep and the Miner can be blinked to no end once it gets rolling.
I think that this is solid. The threat of activation can make blocking decisions awkward for an opponent, and if my opponent is going to try to remove it, I think I'm fine trading 4 life for the average removal spell. I may kick Lone Missionary back out again for this.
Pretty sweet, but I'd probably still rather play Aethergeode Miner. It requires an attack to protect it and the protection removes it from combat, but 4 life is steep and the Miner can be blinked to no end once it gets rolling.
I like this more than Miner because Vanguard can actually survive sweepers. 4 life is steep, but if you're the aggro deck all you care about is getting them to zero first. Being able to hang around after a Wrath of God clears the way for this to get into the red zone or pick off a planeswalker.
I think that this is solid. The threat of activation can make blocking decisions awkward for an opponent, and if my opponent is going to try to remove it, I think I'm fine trading 4 life for the average removal spell. I may kick Lone Missionary back out again for this.
This is not a comment about whether that's a good cut or not, but the thought of cutting a creature that gains you 4 life for one that can lose you 4 life is kinda funny.
Vanguard is a solid beater. Comparable to Aethergeode Miner, a card that is solid but not fantastic. 4 life is a lot, and it blocks as a 1/1 when tasked to do so, but it's still resilient against removal and combat (sorta) and I could see larger cubes wanting to find room for it. I think Adorned Pouncer and Glory-Bound Initiate are better cards though, so I don't imagine I'll have room at 540 for this.
I'm expanding my cube size and was planning on putting Aethergeode Miner back in, but I think this is better - I like that it can survive wraths, and that it can get picked up by Alesha while still hitting for a bunch. We're so spoiled by all these 3/1s lately!
I'm expanding my cube size and was planning on putting Aethergeode Miner back in, but I think this is better - I like that it can survive wraths, and that it can get picked up by Alesha while still hitting for a bunch. We're so spoiled by all these 3/1s lately!
I was just about to say "this won't be 3/1 when brought back attacking with Alesha," but I just noticed this card is worded "as long as _____ is attacking, it gets +2/+0." Has anything else been worded like this or is this a new template?
I'm expanding my cube size and was planning on putting Aethergeode Miner back in, but I think this is better - I like that it can survive wraths, and that it can get picked up by Alesha while still hitting for a bunch. We're so spoiled by all these 3/1s lately!
I was just about to say "this won't be 3/1 when brought back attacking with Alesha," but I just noticed this card is worded "as long as _____ is attacking, it gets +2/+0." Has anything else been worded like this or is this a new template?
I think the miner is better than this by a decent margin. Blocking is important, and 4 life is super steep to save a 3/1. Plus, if you give a mouse a cookie, this thing is going to come asking for 8 life, then 12.
If it's asking for 8-12 life and I'm paying, then it's the right choice, right? Seems like almost always having control over when to activate is probably better than potentially not having energy and this dying, or dying after the first activation, especially for an aggressive 2 drop where late game activations are way less important.
I think the card is a fair bit better than Aethergeode Miner. Can save itself immediately after casting, can't really be blocked by 1/X's (since then its a 0 for 1 - whereas Miner doesn't deal damage unless you trade), and it doesn't require attacking to use its ability.
That said, I think this misses at 450. Card is really quite awful in anything but pretty hard aggro - it does a really poor job of blocking and the life payment is a bit too steep. At least Accorder Paladin, which is one of the weaker 2 drops, supports token decks.
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I like it a lot, 4 health may seem steep but it is optional. In agro you aren't too concerned about you life total so 4 health to keep your guy alive and trade for theirs is a decent deal (sometimes you may not even need to as the threat of activation may put them off blocking). If your on the back foot it can blank a non-trampler for 4 health, it's pricy but your saving some health vs anything with 5 or more power. I think the threat of activation is going to save it more often than you think, although its hard to evaluate without asking my opponents afterwards.
It dodges a lot of removal such as sweepers that traditionally punish aggressive decks, in this matchup its great as I'm more than happy to pay 4 health to keep the pressure on post-sweeper.
I also prefer the style points of paying life to kill myself, denying my opponent the true taste of victory.
Edit: I will probably give it a shot over Aegis of the Gods, that card has been doing very little for a long time.
I also prefer the style points of paying life to kill myself, denying my opponent the true taste of victory.
Unfortunately this doesn't work quite that often, since you have to have a (multiple of 4) life to kill yourself. You can't pay 4 when you have 1,2, or 3 life.
You can kill yourself on t2 though, if you ever want someone in your cube to say "I won on t2".
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I also prefer the style points of paying life to kill myself, denying my opponent the true taste of victory.
Unfortunately this doesn't work quite that often, since you have to have a (multiple of 4) life to kill yourself. You can't pay 4 when you have 1,2, or 3 life.
You can kill yourself on t2 though, if you ever want someone in your cube to say "I won on t2".
I wasn't too sure if that was the case, but if you don't tell my drafters I wont
I haven't felt the need to add it and I don't think I would pick it over glory-bound initiate. I have played with it a bit on MTG Arena, it is definitely a solid beater, the 4 life is definitely a steep cost but when you pay it it feels like a steal.
The threat of activation is also a big deal for this card, the fact you could pay the life to keep it alive will keep her out of the line of fire.
It wouldn't be out of place in anyones cube but it wasn't interesting enough to me to go out of my way to get one.
Initiate > Vanguard, IMO. Initiate being a 4/4 is key in midrange matchups and the lifelink breaks the aggro mirror in half. Adanto Vanguard’s ability is mostly relevant in the control matchups against sweepers (which clears the path for Vanguard).
While indestructible is nice, Vanguard still “dies” to Balance / Deluge / Languish / Edicts / Dismember / Plow / Path / O-Ring effects / etc.
Vanguard has been fantastic for me, a contender for the best aggressive white two drop. He is hard to get rid of, evading most removals, mass removals and plows through blockers. A great holder of equipment. Also satisfying that he is so miserable as a target for your opponent's control magic effects. Paying 4 life with it is the same as the cost of drawing a card with Sylvan Library - you can usually afford to pay it 2-3 times a game, but instead of drawing a card you get a 3/1 into play for free, a much better payoff for aggressive decks.
Initiate is also cubeworthy, but is only great when the lifegain matters. Initiate is weak to control decks, weak to red burn and most importantly much slower against blockers. Any utility body blocker or even token will force you to exert initiate if you want to keep pressure. You gain life, but in most matchups you'd rather attack for 3 next turn.
Initiate is also cubeworthy, but is only great when the lifegain matters.
This isn’t true at all. Most of his value actually comes from being able to fight through creatures a typical 3/2 beaters can’t attack into or would trade with.
Aggro’s toughest matchup is midrange. Initiate’s ability gives aggro decks a way to fight through creatures it otherwise can’t break through normally. On the other hand, Vanguard’s ability isn’t that valuable against midrange since they’re just going to wall / outclass the Vanguard in combat. Vanguard’s ability doesn’t lend itself well to the aggro matchup either since 4 life is a steep cost in the mirror. On the other hand, Initiate’s lifelink ability is backbreaking in the mirror.
In short:
Vs Midrange I’d rather have Initiate
Vs Aggro Not only would I rather have Initiate, but Vanguard’s ability is a potential liability
Vs Control I’d rather have Vanguard
Vs Combo, who cares
Seeing how Initiate has more favorable matchups and actively helps against aggro’s bad midrange matchup, I prefer Initiate over Vanguard. Vanguard is sweet, but I think it’s a far cry from being considered the best white aggro 2-drop.
This isn’t true at all. Most of his value actually comes from being able to fight through creatures a typical 3/2 beaters can’t attack into or would trade with.
I think Vanguard is far better in this role, as it can attack into literally everything and survive, and without the need to exert and slow you down considerably.
In aggro I am more fearful of a Kitchen Finks than Thrun. Encountering small defenders is very common, especially for decks that try to stick a planeswalker into the battlefield. An exerted Initiate will kill a Restoration Angel. It is helpless against Gisela, the Broken Blade, Acidic Slime or Fire Imp. Once the toughness rises above exactly 4 Vanguard gains the edge again. Initiate cannot ever attack into a Polukranos or a titan and survive. A vanguard + Bolt will go 1-for-1 with a Consecrated Sphinx (well, its body). Every creature your opponent topdecks to block Initiate buys 2 full turns instead of one.
So, against ramp, counterburn, reanimator, supefriends, all types of combo decks and control it is better. Against creature-based midrange it is debatable. Against aggro Initiate is clearly better. In total, Vanguard > Initiate.
Not needing to pay 4 life to survive has been really nice, and the life gain has been incredible. I think Vanguard is def good, but the 4/4 lifelinking mode was def underrated by me at first and has been super great in practice. Vanguard has still been good--when you can pay the 4 life, it's great!--but there are too many fast decks to chop off 4 life too often to say that's def better.
I think both Initiate and Vanguard are at or near the top of the "tier 2" white 2-drops. Not cards I'd jam into the smallest cubes, but once you need additional bodies to fill the ranks, they both do a solid job. If you've played Initiate and found it a bit lacking, give Vanguard a whorl. And vice-versa.
3-power on attack that can become indestructible with no mana down. Thoughts?
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I like this more than Miner because Vanguard can actually survive sweepers. 4 life is steep, but if you're the aggro deck all you care about is getting them to zero first. Being able to hang around after a Wrath of God clears the way for this to get into the red zone or pick off a planeswalker.
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This is not a comment about whether that's a good cut or not, but the thought of cutting a creature that gains you 4 life for one that can lose you 4 life is kinda funny.
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I was just about to say "this won't be 3/1 when brought back attacking with Alesha," but I just noticed this card is worded "as long as _____ is attacking, it gets +2/+0." Has anything else been worded like this or is this a new template?
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EDIT: There's also...um...Snow Devil if you like having first strike only when blocking and you use snow basics, I guess.
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That said, I think this misses at 450. Card is really quite awful in anything but pretty hard aggro - it does a really poor job of blocking and the life payment is a bit too steep. At least Accorder Paladin, which is one of the weaker 2 drops, supports token decks.
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It dodges a lot of removal such as sweepers that traditionally punish aggressive decks, in this matchup its great as I'm more than happy to pay 4 health to keep the pressure on post-sweeper.
I also prefer the style points of paying life to kill myself, denying my opponent the true taste of victory.
Edit: I will probably give it a shot over Aegis of the Gods, that card has been doing very little for a long time.
Unfortunately this doesn't work quite that often, since you have to have a (multiple of 4) life to kill yourself. You can't pay 4 when you have 1,2, or 3 life.
You can kill yourself on t2 though, if you ever want someone in your cube to say "I won on t2".
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I wasn't too sure if that was the case, but if you don't tell my drafters I wont
Now i'm seeing people rank it above glory-bound initiate.
Is this unsuspecting two drop putting in real work for people?
The threat of activation is also a big deal for this card, the fact you could pay the life to keep it alive will keep her out of the line of fire.
It wouldn't be out of place in anyones cube but it wasn't interesting enough to me to go out of my way to get one.
While indestructible is nice, Vanguard still “dies” to Balance / Deluge / Languish / Edicts / Dismember / Plow / Path / O-Ring effects / etc.
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Initiate is also cubeworthy, but is only great when the lifegain matters. Initiate is weak to control decks, weak to red burn and most importantly much slower against blockers. Any utility body blocker or even token will force you to exert initiate if you want to keep pressure. You gain life, but in most matchups you'd rather attack for 3 next turn.
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This isn’t true at all. Most of his value actually comes from being able to fight through creatures a typical 3/2 beaters can’t attack into or would trade with.
Aggro’s toughest matchup is midrange. Initiate’s ability gives aggro decks a way to fight through creatures it otherwise can’t break through normally. On the other hand, Vanguard’s ability isn’t that valuable against midrange since they’re just going to wall / outclass the Vanguard in combat. Vanguard’s ability doesn’t lend itself well to the aggro matchup either since 4 life is a steep cost in the mirror. On the other hand, Initiate’s lifelink ability is backbreaking in the mirror.
In short:
Vs Midrange I’d rather have Initiate
Vs Aggro Not only would I rather have Initiate, but Vanguard’s ability is a potential liability
Vs Control I’d rather have Vanguard
Vs Combo, who cares
Seeing how Initiate has more favorable matchups and actively helps against aggro’s bad midrange matchup, I prefer Initiate over Vanguard. Vanguard is sweet, but I think it’s a far cry from being considered the best white aggro 2-drop.
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I think Vanguard is far better in this role, as it can attack into literally everything and survive, and without the need to exert and slow you down considerably.
In aggro I am more fearful of a Kitchen Finks than Thrun. Encountering small defenders is very common, especially for decks that try to stick a planeswalker into the battlefield. An exerted Initiate will kill a Restoration Angel. It is helpless against Gisela, the Broken Blade, Acidic Slime or Fire Imp. Once the toughness rises above exactly 4 Vanguard gains the edge again. Initiate cannot ever attack into a Polukranos or a titan and survive. A vanguard + Bolt will go 1-for-1 with a Consecrated Sphinx (well, its body). Every creature your opponent topdecks to block Initiate buys 2 full turns instead of one.
So, against ramp, counterburn, reanimator, supefriends, all types of combo decks and control it is better. Against creature-based midrange it is debatable. Against aggro Initiate is clearly better. In total, Vanguard > Initiate.
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