MTG Salvation

Ah ok, thanks for the answer anyway, the card seems sweet regardless.

I think this would be in for me if it has a 'Damage can't be prevented' rider that many red cards have. We have many ways to get around regeneration but it has been phased out. They are ramping up damage prevention/indestructible and that can be very awkward for red to deal with.

Thanks for the list Zetsu. I can definitely see this being good enough to beat out my worst aggro 1 drop. Will test.

How does this work with Garruk Relentless? Can he kill all ≤ 3/3 creatures with impunity?

Also, this seems great with repeatable damage sources like Grim Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll, since they can drag down and kill bigger creatures over multiple activations...

....that's a really good question.

My first read through would be that since the ability is 2 separate actions, garruk deals damage, then the creature. So the creature would get the -3/-3 counters, then garruk would take no damage. Then the creature dies from SBA after the ability has fully resolved.

Quote from steve_man »

Quote from wtwlf123 »

How does this work with Garruk Relentless? Can he kill all ≤ 3/3 creatures with impunity?

Also, this seems great with repeatable damage sources like Grim Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll, since they can drag down and kill bigger creatures over multiple activations...

No, the change in the creature's power isn't checked again until state based effects are checked after Garruk's ability resolves. Scar Mage's "ability" is a replacement effect, so Garruk puts the -1/-1 counters (in lieu of damage) on the creature, but the creature'a P/T is still the same during resolution of the ability. After Garruk's ability resolves, SBEs are checked and the P/T will change accordingly.

This is very incorrect. The creature's power and toughness is continually updated, what may be confusing you is that SBE's that put a creature in the graveyard are not checked in the middle of a spell resolving, but the counters still go on and are relevant. Garruk would deal its damage, which becomes -1/-1 counters, then the creature would fight back using it's current power (including the modification from the counters), then the ability finishes resolving. This would apply to any "fight" effect that specifically called out the order of damage (like Master of the Wild Hunt), but does not apply to the Fight keyword, as that specifies that the damage is simultaneous.

If that was the case, then hunt the weak wouldn't work as intended, since it puts a +1/+1 counter then fights, and all that resolves at the same time.

The big difference between garruk and other cards with the fight keyword is the timing of the damage. Garruk does damage first, which will apply the -1/-1 counters. Fight has them do damage at the same time.

I've conferred with a few other judges, and it does work the way you stated wtwlf

Edit: this was directed at steve_man, for some reason forum isnt allowing me to quote.

Quote from th3shinigami »

I've conferred with a few other judges, and it does work the way you stated wtwlf...

Looking forward to pairing Soul-Scar Mage with Garruk Relentless then! He can kill things 3/3 or smaller with impunity, and even shrink a 5/5 down to a 2/2 and survive flipped!

card is really interesting. think i might give it a test just to give some more variation in 1 drops.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Quote from th3shinigami »

I've conferred with a few other judges, and it does work the way you stated wtwlf...

Looking forward to pairing Soul-Scar Mage with Garruk Relentless then! He can kill things 3/3 or smaller with impunity, and even shrink a 5/5 down to a 2/2 and survive flipped!

Hmm...I'm pretty down on this guy as an aggressive beater, but I have to admit this is super interesting. Nice find!

While I wouldn't replace any of my current red 1-drops with this, I could definitely use one or two more of those in my cube. I was waiting for more 2/Xs with minor (or no) drawbacks, but I guess I can give this 1/2 a try in the meantime. You can really make the prowess matter if you draft enough cheap non-creature spells and this guy synergizes especially well with instant speed burn.

I love red 1 drops as much as anyone, but I think this is not going to be good enough. It is not actually a 2/1, so you are giving away some damage potential for the marginal upside of toppling a big creature.
Pass.

My Monastery Swiftspear quite regularly gets in for as much damage as a 2/1 variant, survives a lot more combats, can play tricks with instants, and is generally a lot more interesting. This guy loses the haste but gains an ability that helps aggro a ton in its worst match up - by bringing down midrange creatures that are otherwise out of range or would trade at best with burn. For us, easy include.

I will probably give him a shot over whatever the least aggressive 1 drop is that I am running is (probably Legion Loyalist, he hasn't been doing much for a while, I feel like whilst he is a bit worse for the hard agro decks he will find a home in more decks overall.

I agree with all of your sentiments Goodking. So I think my group just looks at many of the aggro drops as so boring. And after all of the creature improvements we have had, my group actively tries to steal and hide cards like Jackal Pup to make the cube more interesting.

I think eliminating all the Jackal Pups makes the cube significantly less interesting. Like, almost unplayably uninteresting.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I think eliminating all the Jackal Pups makes the cube significantly less interesting. Like, almost unplayably uninteresting.

So you wouldn't play someone's cube because it's "unplayably uninteresting" (kind of rude, but whatever) if they weren't running Jackal Pup and Satyr Firedrinker? Okaaaaay.

I agree with all of your sentiments Goodking. So I think my group just looks at many of the aggro drops as so boring. And after all of the creature improvements we have had, my group actively tries to steal and hide cards like Jackal Pup to make the cube more interesting.

I run the usual aggro one drops and like them plenty - aggro is my favourite archetype - but it's a case of offering some variety. Red is trying to do a bunch of stuff in cubes now, and balancing for different archetypes requires looking at different kinds of one drops.

Quote from Goodking »

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I think eliminating all the Jackal Pups makes the cube significantly less interesting. Like, almost unplayably uninteresting.

So you wouldn't play someone's cube because it's "unplayably uninteresting" (kind of rude, but whatever) if they weren't running Jackal Pup and Satyr Firedrinker? Okaaaaay.

I agree with all of your sentiments Goodking. So I think my group just looks at many of the aggro drops as so boring. And after all of the creature improvements we have had, my group actively tries to steal and hide cards like Jackal Pup to make the cube more interesting.

I run the usual aggro one drops and like them plenty - aggro is my favorite archetype - but it's a case of offering some variety. Red is trying to do a bunch of stuff in cubes now, and balancing for different archetypes requires looking at different kinds of one drops.

When it is was just aggro, and we had fewer choices, Pup was fine. And for the record I still play firedrinker satyr, it's power level and game play interactions are awesome compared to the pup. When I played the pup it was behind Guide, Satyr, Rackdos Cackler, Figure of Destiny, Swiftspear, Zurgo , Falkenrath Gorger. So 8th red 1 drop creature is hard to justify now that I am encouraging reanimator, artifacts, and tokens. *

For me, those that still include the pup are doing it for nostalgia, it might be 8th best (or 7th for those that don't like swiftspear) but it has no interaction other than being being an 2/1 idiot.

*Edit That is just aggro, you also have Grim Lavamancer and Goblin Welder

Quote from Goodking »

So you wouldn't play someone's cube because it's "unplayably uninteresting" (kind of rude, but whatever) if they weren't running Jackal Pup and Satyr Firedrinker? Okaaaaay.

Calm down. What I meant was that aggro support in general needs to be adequate to create a fun and balanced metagame. When your playgroup removes all the meat and potatoes required to make the theater work correctly, it creates a format that I find dull and uninteresting, yes.

I think the threat of activation may be a real thing to consider with this card. If your opponent attacks with Soul Scar Mage, is blocking with Baneslayer Angel worth it if any 3 damage burn spell can make your Angel chump?

Edit: Especially if you're only taking 1 damage from the mage. Even if you don't block they can still turn your Angel into a 2/2 at the end of your turn

Quote from J-altamira »

I think the threat of activation may be a real thing to consider with this card. If your opponent attacks with Soul Scar Mage, is blocking with Baneslayer Angel worth it if any 3 damage burn spell can make your Angel chump?

Edit: Especially if you're only taking 1 damage from the mage. Even if you don't block they can still turn your Angel into a 2/2 at the end of your turn

Agreed completely. When the red player has a couple cards in hand, combat is going to get really tense.

The interection with Garruk Relentless is also trully awesome. Wow.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Quote from J-altamira »

I think the threat of activation may be a real thing to consider with this card. If your opponent attacks with Soul Scar Mage, is blocking with Baneslayer Angel worth it if any 3 damage burn spell can make your Angel chump?

Edit: Especially if you're only taking 1 damage from the mage. Even if you don't block they can still turn your Angel into a 2/2 at the end of your turn

Agreed completely. When the red player has a couple cards in hand, combat is going to get really tense.

I think one of the best things about prowess creatures is they help bring some tension back to combat in cube. Pump spells are such a liability I had been missing this. And this guy takes that tension up another notch.

He'll be fun for a while. I have a feeling without one more nudge he wont last but he might make for some good stories.