MTG Salvation

Maybe better on average, but not that many a's and y's better, I think He's not a great finisher, easily chump blocked. Bad against graveyard hate, and bad when you don't have an instant in the yard (how many times will that happen? Not often, but it sucks when it does.) So his floor is rather low.

The comparison to Whelk actually makes me more skeptical about the Gearhulk. Are you really going to have an instant better than Counterspell in the ACS? I guess holding Gearhulk up with the option of a counterspell or a bounce/draw is much better, but that makes it kind of strictly a late game control closer.

Definitely disagree about Goblin Dark-Dwellers being 'meh'. That card has not looked one bit out of place in my 400 cube since its very late addition well after OGW.

Onto the card at hand, I had a feeling this would be a loose cycle like the Confluences and Commands. This looks like a very strong six drop when you factor in the flash, simple-to-abuse recursion - I can't fathom too many instances where you wouldn't get some decent value from its ETB - and being an artifatty to boot. It also fits in spells-matter as a creature that nets you another Sorc/Instant proc for Prowess and other shenanigans, like Dark-Dwellers. I am not sure if I have space but it's certainly on my radar for when it's time to review options after the spoilers are all done.

I think Dark Dwellers is better than this card.

Quote from Goodking »

Definitely disagree about Goblin Dark-Dwellers being 'meh'. That card has not looked one bit out of place in my 400 cube since its very late addition well after OGW.

Onto the card at hand, I had a feeling this would be a loose cycle like the Confluences and Commands. This looks like a very strong six drop when you factor in the flash, simple-to-abuse recursion - I can't fathom too many instances where you wouldn't get some decent value from its ETB - and being an artifatty to boot. It also fits in spells-matter as a creature that nets you another Sorc/Instant proc for Prowess and other shenanigans, like Dark-Dwellers. I am not sure if I have space but it's certainly on my radar for when it's time to review options after the spoilers are all done.

If it was able to target sorceries, I think it might have been good enough. But this only hits instants, so I think its a miss. I run 3 blue 6 drops, Aetherling, Frost Titan, and Consecrated Sphinx. I don't think this beats out Titan for me, even with the artifact interactions.

I don't think the artifact interaction matters much in this case, considering that the artifact.dec runs a pretty low number of instants, generally speaking. The deck is loaded with artifacts (duh) and cards that care about artifacts, which are largely creatures and planeswalkers (and some sorceries).

Thinking some more about it, you're probabyl right. The comparison to Draining Whelk doesn't do him justice. By the time you play him you will often have several instants in the yard, and having options is good. The WCS of a 5/6 end of turn isn't great, but ya, better than 1/1 flying of sure. And the BCS (Mystic Confluence?) is much better than Whelks too. I still don't think I'm interested as I don't think it competes with our blue 6 drops: Aetherling, Consecreted Sphinx, or Frost Titan.

I think this is going to be pretty strong. Forget about going "insane" with value and consider the mid-range opportunities. As a top-end result for U/R or U/W, this can flash in and kill any attacker plus recur a burn spell, a counter spell, or a removal spell.

On-color, you can recur:

Brainstorm
Mana Drain
Counterspell
Cryptic Command
Mystic Confluence
Ancestral Recall
Fact or Fiction
Thirst for Knowledge
Gifts Ungiven

All of which are pretty spicy to recur free. Off color, you get some interesting add-ons like:

Lightning Bolt
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Dismember
Beast Within
Ultimate Price
Hero's Downfall
Disenchant
Electrolyze

All spicy for a 5/6 flash body with artifact relevance. I'd sub this in over Frost Titan which has often disappointed me.

I honestly like this as the number one blue 6 drop finisher. Aetherlong and consecrated Sphinx be damned. Though I don't run either of those, so it still might nit be good enough.

The reason this doesn't hit sorceries is that per the wording of the card, it would be able to cast sorceries at instant speed. I can understand why that would give WOTC pause.

funny that draining whelk came up because i was just going to say i think that will be my cut to fit this in.

I think the card/effect is powerful, but not 6 mana in blue, cube powerful.

All other 6 drops in cube have a DRAMATIC effect on the game. Like end it a good % of the time or swing a losing game into a winning game.

I think a 5/6 flash + counter spell fails that criteria.. And that's not even the fail case where you lack a good target.

6 drops that don't play well early in the game off powered starts are also less exciting.

It has some rare high upside plays, but not nearly enough to justify the whiffs IMO.

This guy isn't close to inclusion for me...

I think this is really good, definitely will test it.

Snapcaster can hit sorceries. If it couldn't, it wouldn't be nearly as good.

My super instant heavy decks almost never have a 6 drop in them. If this were also an instant that created a token and flashed a spell it would be more interesting. But I still like some thing Docent of Perfection more if your are pushing instant decks. For 6 drops I want them to be bulletproof like aetherling, have a great board presense like frost titan, or just have such a massive upside like consecrated sphinx. Also all three of those are much better ramp/cheat targets. The ceiling is very high, but any game where I have cast things like Dig Through Time, Ancestral, Mystic Confluence, Cryptic Command etc. and survived to cast a 6 drop are probably already in the 90% win column for the control deck.

Can the gearhulk auto-overload a cyclonic rift, or is that alt casting cost not covered?

I don't believe you can overload off the Gearhulk.

It's an alt casting cost, so no you cannot overload because you are already casting for the free alt casting cost from gearhulk

Why are so many people so down on this card? I think it is great.

I count around 40 out of 600 cards that I would be happy to flashback with this in my cube. Even just flashing back a Lightning Bolt is perfectly fine. It is a 5/6 with flash that give instant (heh) card advantage! What's not to like? I run only two blue 6-drops that I would not cut for this.

And while Snapcaster Mage is more flexible, Torrential Gearhulk is just much bigger. Flashing back some counterspell with the former costs 4-6 mana and gives you a 2/1. Doing the same with the latter costs always 6, but gives you a 5/6! And using it on a non-reactive spell allows you to ambush attackers (killing most non-titan-sized ones) or a serious eot threat.

Quote from Star Slayer »

Why are so many people so down on this card? I think it is great.

I count around 40 out of 600 cards that I would be happy to flashback with this in my cube. Even just flashing back a Lightning Bolt is perfectly fine. It is a 5/6 with flash that give instant (heh) card advantage! What's not to like? I run only two blue 6-drops that I would not cut for this.

And while Snapcaster Mage is more flexible, Torrential Gearhulk is just much bigger. Flashing back some counterspell with the former costs 4-6 mana and gives you a 2/1. Doing the same with the latter costs always 6, but gives you a 5/6! And using it on a non-reactive spell allows you to ambush attackers (killing most non-titan-sized ones) or a serious eot threat.

I think you're right. This card is not that bad, but it is still no Snapcaster Mage. The Mage can flashback stuff 2 to 3 turns earlier and that's a pretty important part on the deal.

Quote from Star Slayer »

I run only two blue 6-drops that I would not cut for this.

Quote from Star Slayer »

What's not to like?

I only run 2 blue 6-drops total, so you kinda answered your own question here...

Quote from Star Slayer »

Why are so many people so down on this card? I think it is great.

I count around 40 out of 600 cards that I would be happy to flashback with this in my cube. Even just flashing back a Lightning Bolt is perfectly fine. It is a 5/6 with flash that give instant (heh) card advantage! What's not to like? I run only two blue 6-drops that I would not cut for this.

And while Snapcaster Mage is more flexible, Torrential Gearhulk is just much bigger. Flashing back some counterspell with the former costs 4-6 mana and gives you a 2/1. Doing the same with the latter costs always 6, but gives you a 5/6! And using it on a non-reactive spell allows you to ambush attackers (killing most non-titan-sized ones) or a serious eot threat.

It can probably be considered number 3-4 in blue 6 drops by this forum. But I would need probably 720 card cube to run 4.