I like deceiver exarch since it's another creature that lives through a lot of the red removal. I think it's better than Pestermite because of that, since really only Jace, Architect of Thought and Moat truly trump Deceiver, whereas a decent amount more kills Pestermite. Pestermite and Conscripts are pretty susceptible to most burn. They're both better outside of the twin deck (with conscripts being *much* better) but if you have room or only want to run the best of the pure-combo cards, exarch is your dawg.
I do like Exarch a lot, for it self attributes and his support to the twin combo, but it also serves other purpore in my cube. As Pestermite and Conscripts, paired with Erratic Portal and Time Vault, it enables another infinite combo that I run since years.
Question for those of you running this combo: I run Pestermite, Zealous Conscripts, and Restoration Angel (only works with Kiki-Jiki, though) as targets the combo. Is it worth it to find room for Deceiver Exarch as well? The other three see enough play in other decks, but I'm not so sure Exarch would.
Exarch is definitely worth running if you're supporting the combo. He's not too shabby in control decks either and if I had to choose I'd probably keep him over Pestermite (but I would and do run both).
+1 regarding Great Oak Guardian being awesome. I'm a fan.
Pestermite sees enough play in tempo decks, that I'm quite happy to run it, but I'll try to find room in my blue section for Exarch as well. There's so much love for Great Oak Guardian! Greenwarden of Murasa doesn't seem to get played often, so I think I'll try swapping it out.
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As with the fetch lands, I don't see any reason to discuss each of the check lands individually, so once again let's make this the one and only time we discuss the M10/Innistrad check lands in this thread. Depending on the composition of your deck and the lands you've already played, these will often come into play untapped after the first turn of the game, and almost always in the late game but because of their lack of consistency in the early game and lack of fetch-ability or any other additional upside these are nowhere near as good as ABU duals, fetches, shocks, manlands, or even pain lands. If money is no object, I'd say these are the 6th best lands for enemy guilds and probably the 7th best allied fixing after the BFZ duals, which makes them 630-720 size material.
However, if money is an object I highly recommend these lands as budget placeholders because they do come into play untapped often enough, and they sell for about $2 apiece in allied colors and $5 apiece in enemy colors (except Sulfur Falls, which goes for around $11), so the whole cycle can be had for around $40. That's less than the price of even one of some of the enemy fetches! If fetch lands are the Cadillac of mana fixing lands, these are the Kia Pride. They're a lot less glamorous, and not quite as reliable, but they'll still get you where you're going for a fraction of the price.
I really like the eerie art on this particular land, as well as the flavor text about horrifying cycle of life on Innistrad.
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In my cube I have 7 dual lands for each of the guilds and for me, the check lands compete for the 7th spot of dual lands. I like all the 6 land you listed (ABU duals, fetches, shocks, man, pain, battle) as well as the filter lands more than the check lands. This means that they are only in consideration for the enemy guilds because they don't have battlelands available. For the nongreen combinations, I have decided to go with checklands (Isolated Chapel, Sulfur Falls, Clifftop Retreat) while I have chosen Ravnica bouncelands for the green combinations for their synergy with Fastbond/Exploration/Oracle of Mul Daya (Golgari Rot Farm, Simic Growth Chamber).
I really like the check lands. I've found that the amount of time that they prevent me from playing a 1-drop on turn one is minimal. If I play it tapped on turn one, it's because I had no turn one play anyway. If I play it on any other turn, it's probably coming in untapped. I would say they tie for 5th best land in each cycle (other than Selesnya) with the pain lands based on preference and colorless support in the cube.
These lands are so much worse than the top tier lands, but I would run some of them if I didn't double up on shocks and fetches for my large Cube. There isn't much to say except I think the painlands are clearly better in some color combinations (Boros), while the check lands are better in others (Azorius). Overall the painlands also become better if you are trying to support a deep colorless section.
Works good in budget cubes, and as everyone has already said, good for getting more land diversity if you don't have a full cycle of shocks. I prefer painlands, but these aren't bad.
I haven't run this card in quite a while, but it filled a role in in red 3-drops that had very few satisfying options until recently. While a hasty flier can fit aggressive red decks, and being able to recur it while burning someone's face is card advantage at the right time, throwing a burn spell away to recur an overglorified Wind Drake back to your hand isn't really what you want to be doing. I prefer my red 3s to beat down for 3+, gain card advantage as utility dorks, or be some sweet combination of both. It's also nice to have no rr costs in my red 3s.
The flames in the art on both of these really pop in foil, but I like how the action is easier to see in Aleksi Briclot's original art a bit better than Steve Argyle's Buy-A-Box promo. Flavorwise, recursive phoenixes have been a part of MTG history since Legends, so I'd really like to have one in my cube, and I've tried quiteafew, but none of them have made the cut for the long haul. Neither has any version of Chandra, for that matter.
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I have it in my cube, but I've been looking to swap it out because it doesn't see play very much. The return from graveyard ability is much better suited for a deck full of burn spells, and the singleton format of cube makes it difficult to maximize it's potential.
I'd really like to have one in my cube, and I've tried quite a few, but none of them have made the cut for the long haul. Neither has any version of Chandra, for that matter.
Wow, lots of love for the latest Chandra. I haven't actually tried it, and I missed my chance to pick it up while it was cheap before it caught on in Standard. I'll have to see if I can pry one out of someone's trade binder.
The return from graveyard ability is much better suited for a deck full of burn spells, and the singleton format of cube makes it difficult to maximize it's potential.
Good point. I run a pretty heavy concentration of burn in my red section and the competition for burn is still brutal in every draft.
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I have the pheonix is my cube but she hasn't seen play in a long time (I had to check it was still even in there). She has been on the cutting block for a while and will be replaced by Sin Prodder when I get a chance. The Phoenix never seems to do enough damage to justify having to recast it each time.
I have had Chandra, Pyromaster in my cube for a while, though it seems from the chatter here I'm best swapping her out for Chandra, Flamecaller once she rotates out, that about right? or is modern going to keep her price pretty high?
I like Flamewake Phoenix a little better after running both. It's not difficult to meet the 4 power requirement with equipment or just another midrange dude, and flamewake functions much like a bloodghast type of card for sacrifice triggers but in Rx decks. Chandra's Phoenix is better for discard strategies obviously, so if that is more prevalent in your cube it may be better (though I'm still not convinced because getting Flamewake in play for R is really strong).
Does a red discard deck pack many damage dealing instants and sourceries? I can't think of too many decks where Chandra's Pheonix beats out Flamewake Pheonix.
On a side note I just realised Sin Prodder has got a bunch cheaper so it will be replacing the phoenix soon.
With the recent prints of Sin Prodder and Magus of the Wheel, I don't think the phoenix has a place in small to medium size cube anymore. Plus, we also got some nice red 3-drops over the past years in Goblin Rabblemaster, Feldon of the Third Path and Ire Shaman. Those 5 has definitly push Chandra's Phoenix out of the cube for good.
I like, but don't love Chandra's Phoenix. It has a lot of useful keywords but it just needed to be a little better for me to love it: 3rd power, returns to battlefield, or 2R casting cost would have gone a long way. It's a shame too because I really want one good playable phoenix for the cube, they're one of my favorite fantasy animals.
Also, note that none of the commonly played mono red planeswalkers can recur the phoenix. Off the top of my head, only Ajani V and Ral Zarek can.
Doh! Reading is tech. That would also mean that Sarkhan Dragonspeaker or Chandra, Pyromaster could get it back.
Funnily enough when Sarkhan becomes a creature he is no longer a planeswalker so he can't actually trigger the Phoenix. I guess it's for flavour reasons and I can't really think of any other case where it could be relevant but I thought I'd mention it in case this interaction comes up for anyone.
I checked all the different versions of Gideon, and they all retain their planeswalker type when activated as creatures, so for some reason they decided to make a special exception just for Sarkhan. I'm guessing the flavor behind it is that Sarkhan is no longer human when he turns into a dragon?
Thanks for pointing out my mistakes about the Phoenix, planeswalkers, and Sarkhan, steve_ice. Those are situations anyone running Chandra's Phoenix needs to be aware of.
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+1 regarding Great Oak Guardian being awesome. I'm a fan.
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As with the fetch lands, I don't see any reason to discuss each of the check lands individually, so once again let's make this the one and only time we discuss the M10/Innistrad check lands in this thread. Depending on the composition of your deck and the lands you've already played, these will often come into play untapped after the first turn of the game, and almost always in the late game but because of their lack of consistency in the early game and lack of fetch-ability or any other additional upside these are nowhere near as good as ABU duals, fetches, shocks, manlands, or even pain lands. If money is no object, I'd say these are the 6th best lands for enemy guilds and probably the 7th best allied fixing after the BFZ duals, which makes them 630-720 size material.
However, if money is an object I highly recommend these lands as budget placeholders because they do come into play untapped often enough, and they sell for about $2 apiece in allied colors and $5 apiece in enemy colors (except Sulfur Falls, which goes for around $11), so the whole cycle can be had for around $40. That's less than the price of even one of some of the enemy fetches! If fetch lands are the Cadillac of mana fixing lands, these are the Kia Pride. They're a lot less glamorous, and not quite as reliable, but they'll still get you where you're going for a fraction of the price.
I really like the eerie art on this particular land, as well as the flavor text about horrifying cycle of life on Innistrad.
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I haven't run this card in quite a while, but it filled a role in in red 3-drops that had very few satisfying options until recently. While a hasty flier can fit aggressive red decks, and being able to recur it while burning someone's face is card advantage at the right time, throwing a burn spell away to recur an overglorified Wind Drake back to your hand isn't really what you want to be doing. I prefer my red 3s to beat down for 3+, gain card advantage as utility dorks, or be some sweet combination of both. It's also nice to have no rr costs in my red 3s.
The flames in the art on both of these really pop in foil, but I like how the action is easier to see in Aleksi Briclot's original art a bit better than Steve Argyle's Buy-A-Box promo. Flavorwise, recursive phoenixes have been a part of MTG history since Legends, so I'd really like to have one in my cube, and I've tried quite a few, but none of them have made the cut for the long haul. Neither has any version of Chandra, for that matter.
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Chandra, Flamecaller is a hell of a cube card.
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Good point. I run a pretty heavy concentration of burn in my red section and the competition for burn is still brutal in every draft.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I have had Chandra, Pyromaster in my cube for a while, though it seems from the chatter here I'm best swapping her out for Chandra, Flamecaller once she rotates out, that about right? or is modern going to keep her price pretty high?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
On a side note I just realised Sin Prodder has got a bunch cheaper so it will be replacing the phoenix soon.
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Also, note that none of the commonly played mono red planeswalkers can recur the phoenix. Off the top of my head, only Ajani V and Ral Zarek can.
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Nah, it has to be an instant of sorcery. In a total flavor fail, even Chandra, Pyromaster can't bring back her own pet unless she's going ultimate.
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I checked all the different versions of Gideon, and they all retain their planeswalker type when activated as creatures, so for some reason they decided to make a special exception just for Sarkhan. I'm guessing the flavor behind it is that Sarkhan is no longer human when he turns into a dragon?
Thanks for pointing out my mistakes about the Phoenix, planeswalkers, and Sarkhan, steve_ice. Those are situations anyone running Chandra's Phoenix needs to be aware of.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.